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Why are some people so eager for over-monetization?

  • starkerealm
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    pppontus wrote: »
    I find it just as bad as you, we just look at it from different perspectives I think.

    The problem is, you're attempting to justify the behavior. If you don't agree with it, there's no reason for you to.

    I'm explaining it, from an analytical point of view. Including prior experience with similar situations, and expressing concerns.

    If you really think it's an issue, there's no reason to justify or defend it. And yes, saying, "well they're a company, they're there to make money," is an attempt at justifying it.
  • golfer.dub17_ESO
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    Which brings me to my other main concern. Far from the careful and cautious approach, many people seem to be clamouring for runaway monetization. There are threads where people are saying they'd eagerly pay large sums of money for almost any boost, change, or item. ZOS will cater to what players want, in particular if it helps the bottom line, and it is my concern that these people, who speak the loudest with their wallet, will be the ones driving the game's future.

    People don't know the value of a dollar. They will be willing to pay anything for anything.

    I go from thread to thread and see "OMGZ PLS ADD RACE CHANGE ZOS, I WOULD PAY YOU $20 JUST SO YOU KNOW."

    Like, ever heard of haggling? Starting low and negotiating? Why instantly offer them $20?

    In other threads I see someone criticize the prices, and someone else says "DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T BUY IT". Well gee, that's entirely irrelevant to the point being made, and they aren't going to buy it anyways, so thanks for your oh-so-insightful comment.

    Personally? I wouldn't pay over five dollars for most of the crap offered, the only things I would pay ten dollars and above for are quality dlc, not mounts.
  • starkerealm
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    Which brings me to my other main concern. Far from the careful and cautious approach, many people seem to be clamouring for runaway monetization. There are threads where people are saying they'd eagerly pay large sums of money for almost any boost, change, or item. ZOS will cater to what players want, in particular if it helps the bottom line, and it is my concern that these people, who speak the loudest with their wallet, will be the ones driving the game's future.

    People don't know the value of a dollar. They will be willing to pay anything for anything.

    I go from thread to thread and see "OMGZ PLS ADD RACE CHANGE ZOS, I WOULD PAY YOU $20 JUST SO YOU KNOW."

    Like, ever heard of haggling? Starting low and negotiating? Why instantly offer them $20?

    In other threads I see someone criticize the prices, and someone else says "DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T BUY IT". Well gee, that's entirely irrelevant to the point being made, and they aren't going to buy it anyways, so thanks for your oh-so-insightful comment.

    Personally? I wouldn't pay over five dollars for most of the crap offered, the only things I would pay ten dollars and above for are quality dlc, not mounts.

    I don't know, I usually view the people who can't govern their own capslock as somewhere between 12 and 15... blissfully unaware of what money really means.
  • pppontus
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    pppontus wrote: »
    I find it just as bad as you, we just look at it from different perspectives I think.

    The problem is, you're attempting to justify the behavior. If you don't agree with it, there's no reason for you to.

    I'm explaining it, from an analytical point of view. Including prior experience with similar situations, and expressing concerns.

    If you really think it's an issue, there's no reason to justify or defend it. And yes, saying, "well they're a company, they're there to make money," is an attempt at justifying it.

    I don't agree with that, explaining how something works doesn't mean you justify it. I could explain why *horribly bad person* did *horribly bad thing* too, no matter how much I despise him and his actions.

    I don't like the way a lot of things work, but I can still explain why they work that way.

    I always *try* (sometimes fail) to keep my personal opinion out of such discussions or explicitly state what is an opinion and what is more or less a "fact". After all, it should be considered a fact that the crown store exists to make money and that the reason for that is so that ZOS can profit.

    As previously said, I didn't want it this way either. But here we are!

    Being upset at people for wanting to pay for stuff, isn't a good thing, regardless.
  • Destai
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    pppontus wrote: »
    Sure, it'd be nice if all those shoemakers instead went to work on imperial city, but unless I can convince everyone on the planet to pay for that instead.. y'know.

    Yeah... the problem is, when you get people to cough up for already produced content, it doesn't exactly incentivize the creation of new content. If they can just add random garbage items to the store using existing content... why spend money on making a new zone? I mean, it took STO two years as the most profitable PWI title before they rated a new zone? Or, TSW, which went Buy to Play... and the "seriously guys, it'll be done in six months" release of Tokyo got pushed back over two years?

    Yeah. No. This could easily mean we won't see the Imperial city or any other new zone until Christmas 2016.

    Let alone see the rest of Tamriel. So much for Tamriel Unlimited.
  • Elsonso
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    pppontus wrote: »
    Sure, it'd be nice if all those shoemakers instead went to work on imperial city, but unless I can convince everyone on the planet to pay for that instead.. y'know.

    Yeah... the problem is, when you get people to cough up for already produced content, it doesn't exactly incentivize the creation of new content. If they can just add random garbage items to the store using existing content... why spend money on making a new zone? I mean, it took STO two years as the most profitable PWI title before they rated a new zone? Or, TSW, which went Buy to Play... and the "seriously guys, it'll be done in six months" release of Tokyo got pushed back over two years?

    Yeah. No. This could easily mean we won't see the Imperial city or any other new zone until Christmas 2016.

    People spending money on already produced content is what funds the creation of new content.

    Any studio that holds the view that existing content is selling, so there is no reason to make new content, is not interested in making new content for that game. Period. That type of company is solely in it for the money and there is no guarantee that people not buying existing content would spur them into adding new content. At some point, they will cut their losses and run.

    I do not think that ZOS is like that.

    And yes, we will see Imperial City before Christmas 2016.



    XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
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  • BrassRazoo
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    It's an easy decision for me.
    I want to play the game and don't want to farm for this or that item, barter with Tom, *** or Harry, or look in the plethora of mostly useless guild stores, it bores the hell out of me.
    Just like I do in real life when I want something I go to a store and buy it.
    I don't look online and compare prices, I don't bid on it on eBay and wait for it to turn up (or not) and I don't look for garage sales and second hand items for sale in the classifieds.
    When I want something in game I hope to be able to do the same.
  • Kelleton
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    I just want the game to survive because I enjoy playing it.

    I have expendable income...so I have a monthly sub + I will spend money in the cash shop...just give me something I would want..

    Bag space (above current cap)
    Bank space (above current cap)
    Unique item transmogs (I like to look cool...or a certain way to fit a role)
    DLC
    something beyond mounts and pets


    there is no such thing as over monetization in a capitalist society
    Edited by Kelleton on April 15, 2015 10:58PM
  • starkerealm
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    pppontus wrote: »
    I don't agree with that, explaining how something works doesn't mean you justify it. I could explain why *horribly bad person* did *horribly bad thing* too, no matter how much I despise him and his actions.

    It doesn't necessarily. Your posts have crossed the line into attempted justification. That might not have been your intent, but, welcome to the internet.
    People spending money on already produced content is what funds the creation of new content.

    Any studio that holds the view that existing content is selling, so there is no reason to make new content, is not interested in making new content for that game. Period. That type of company is solely in it for the money and there is no guarantee that people not buying existing content would spur them into adding new content. At some point, they will cut their losses and run.

    I do not think that ZOS is like that.

    And yes, we will see Imperial City before Christmas 2016.

    When this actually comes up, it's rarely a developer issue. You'll get publishers looking at the numbers and saying, "well, if you make this much on random fluff items, why should we throw more money at new content, when we can keep pushing out more of these nick-knacks?"

    I hope we'll see the Imperial City before Dec '16, but at the same time, prior experience on that count doesn't fill me with confidence. At least not after this last round of crown store pushes (the pet ad and sticking motifs in there). I hope I'm wrong, but it does start to sound like another MMO getting mismanaged directives from above. To be fair, the whole, "we put everyone on the console launch" already sounded a little like that, but here's more evidence.
  • Tomg999
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    That stupid phone game with the ad with the woman in the low cut armor top?
    They make $1M per day in in-game purchases.
  • daemonios
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    Kelleton wrote: »
    there is no such thing as over monetization in a capitalist society

    Yes. Yes there is. That is why even the most liberal (in the economic sense) economies have some degree of regulation.

    We should "vaccinate" against over-monetization. It only works if it raises their bottom line. So if players boycott unreasonable store content in high enough numbers, it will hurt their bottom line and make them change policies. But as in normal vaccines, we'd need herd immunity - if a small but significant portion of players cave in to every money grab attempt, it's game over.
  • Alphashado
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    Razzak wrote: »
    Tandor wrote: »
    Alphashado wrote: »
    Tandor wrote: »
    AH93 wrote: »
    Sadly most online games, (even some single player games now!), have gone down a path of monetising every little thing they can, because why bother actually playing the game and putting in the effort to unlock items, when you can stand in town spending money in the in-game store?

    Sense of achievement slowly trickling away.

    There's no doubt that this sort of change appeals to some players, and that's fair enough - each to his or her own. However, those to whom it doesn't appeal can simply choose to ignore those items in the Crown Store and get the same sense of achievement from earning the items in-game as they did before, without needing to worry over how other players got the items.

    That is much easier said than done. One of the main reasons I was attracted to ESO in the first place was because it was a subscription model and because of quotes like the one in the OP from Matt. I want a good, well designed MMO that does NOT revolve around a cash store.

    Cash shop this, cash shop that. It's like being at a care dealership with a salesman approaching me every 2 minutes or having a telemarketer call me 10 times a day.

    We don't want it and it's impossible to ignore if trying to avoid it was one of the main reasons we came here in the first place.

    What I find hilariously ironic is how people whine about being forced to dish out $15 per month on a sub, yet they will spend ungodly amounts of money in the cash store on things that are free in a sub model with a little effort.

    I don't really understand why avoiding this change is "easier said than done". I continue to pay a sub, barely look at the crown store and have only bought a costume to test the system really, I doubt I'll go back to it until there's some content on offer. Meanwhile I continue to play the game exactly the same way I played it before, and on the same terms. The threads on the forum will die down as the novelty and instant reaction wear off, but can be read or ignored as you like.

    It's exactly the same game today that it was a month or two ago as far as I'm concerned. Oh sure, people with a "glass half empty" approach to life will say "oh but they might sell this, they might sell that..." but if and when that becomes an issue then don't buy those items, it really is as easy as that. People read too much into these cash shops, they exist primarily as an alternative source of revenue from those who don't want to subscribe, and can be largely ignored by those who still prefer to subscribe (but who will benefit from the extra viability rendered to the game by that alternative source of revenue and the additional players drawn to the game by it).

    True, their primary reason for existence is an alternative source of income. But what I think OP wanted to impress with his post and what many others think, is that this kind of practice has an almost certain effect on the game outside of it's income source. It has an effect of lowering the quality of the game in general. Less content releases, less bug fixes, less customer support, less... pretty much less in almost every part of the game, except cash shop items.
    If they would employ new devs for cash shop items design and retain the same level and momentum of general game development as there was right after launch, I don't think many would mind having cash shop. But they didn't. A part, and it could be a large part, of development that was supposed, or believed to be, responsible for new content has been steered towards cash shop and it's items. No new content for months is more than clear indication of that.
    You could even say it's already evident in latest patch notes.


    Yes, exactly this. And those of us that have seen it before are watching it happen again right before our eyes. All of the above mentioned points are precisely why many of us were excited for a good subscription model.
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