Motifs and Ring of Mara are in the Crown Shop!!!

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · April 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

It took me ~2wks to farm all the dwemer pages in which I got a barbaric and daedric in the process. I purchased the ancient elf (35k) and primal (20k) with in game gold. This doesn't really bother me. It's cosmetic and convenient.

It would be "convenient" to buy all of the rare pvp gear sets, Master weapons, and hard mode raid gear too, by that measure. I mean, you can spend two weeks farming one of those, too! Who cares if someone can spend two weeks farming great gear by paying up instead of farming motifs like you did, right? Slippery slope in the first place and a bad sign to see them already selling valuable in game items that are part of the economy for cash. I'm concerned we may see an Archeage repeat here...

its not the same measure at all, one is cosmetic one is essential to top play. I never bothered with motifs because they are simply cosmetic. you cant just ignore gearing. dont compare costumes, pets bla bla cosmetics to selling master weapons. its just silly.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · April 2015

Kallipsoe wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Kallipsoe wrote: »

No issues with any of these items. Blue motifs are a dime a dozen in the economy and players will have to decide if they want to farm, spend 30k gold, or $15 to get a purple motif. This is definitely not P2W, yet.

I would love to know where you buy your crowns... 5000 for $15? Do they go on sale often?

Last I looked 5000 crows was $40.

@jamesharv2005ub17_ESO yes 5000 crowns is $40. But one "Rare Motif" is only 1,500 crowns, meaning $15.

if someone is crazy enough to spend 40$ on cosmetics, power too them, fund some new content for me to play, please !.
I wont be funding it.

Sevalaricgirl · April 2015

EQBallzz wrote: »

Sevalaricgirl wrote: »

I have no problem with them selling the motifs but honestly, they need to put back the stones for them. If I paid for 2 motifs, 3000 crowns, I want the copper and daedra hearts readily available for me to make my characters this stuff all the way through the game, not just when they get to max level.

Come on ZOS, fix this. Copper, daedra hearts and whatever is required for the other motifs need to be for sale in game. I'm actually pretty ticked about it because they were available in beta.

For everyone thinking about buying these motifs. Be aware, you CAN'T get the copper, daedra hearts etc from the vendors thus is is not worth buying these motifs. Don't make the mistake I did.

LOL. F2P is made for you. OMG! I can't instantly get the mats to make gear! I can't buy it from an NPC or cash shop with no effort! OMG! What do I do!? Do I have to play the game or buy from another player? OHNOZ!

Don't worry..you will be getting your way soon enough. They will keep catering to your "instant gratification" play style until everything is just a crown purchase away. In the meantime may I suggest Neverwinter? You can already buy what you want there so maybe you can get your F2P fix there until this game has more completely gone down the drain.

I've been playing the game since beta, so get over yourself. I have never gotten those motifs and I'm not paying gold for them considering the gouging that goes on in ESO. I have exactly 4 coppers and no daedra hearts in all the play time I've done. Again, get over yourself! You have no idea what games I play and pay for.

Dekken_Blake · April 2015

Our worst fears have been realized. This game has gone.... PAY 2 WEAR

<insert dramatic ominous music>

bill-hader-fred-armisen-kristen-wiig-snl-the-californians1.png

bill-hader-fred-armisen-kristen-wiig-snl-the-californians1.png

hamgatan · April 2015

Sevalaricgirl wrote: »

I've been playing the game since beta, so get over yourself. I have never gotten those motifs and I'm not paying gold for them considering the gouging that goes on in ESO. I have exactly 4 coppers and no daedra hearts in all the play time I've done. Again, get over yourself! You have no idea what games I play and pay for.

that's because you're impatient. you are spending too much time going 'why aren't I getting' them? rather than 'hey I got one in this location? why do I get one here and nowhere else'

open your eyes and notice the patterns. there are consistent mathematical patterns all through this game with regards to drops. once you find them you won't have to worry about finding mats ever again..

EDIT: Don't believe me? You think all this is pure luck?

Ley · April 2015

@hamgatan I'd sure like in on those mathematical patterns. I am most definitely too lazy to figure them out myself. But I guess if everyone knew them, then motifs would feel very special, so I'll take this one for the team.

Cogo · April 2015

Still not a single response from ZoS about the community's concerns for ESO future.

And they removed good posts with detailed feedback like @Attorneyatlawl posted. No negative rant and just asking for any response..at all.

Maybe things will be fine after the console sales and hype gone down a few months in the fall?
Those who isn't interested in consoles and buying game items for money in instead of playing simply likes to have an ESO to play in a year.

@ZOS_GinaBruno did reply in the crown store thread that we could post about items we do not want in the crown store. Not a single response to anything regarding "pay to win" concerns there either.

MercyKilling · April 2015

From day one, things that players sell have been massively overpriced. How do I arrive at this conclusion?

Go sell a motif book at a vendor, not to another player. How much do they give you for it? Far less than what is being charged by other players. The game sets the base value, and players inflate from there.

I'll never purchase a motif book from another player. Ever. I don't make enough playing casually like I do. Probably never will.
However, I hump my butt at work to earn my pay there and if I have a few extra shekels at the end of the week, I'll gladly plop them down to buy a rare motif I don't have yet.

Well, as soon as Zenimax does what my sig says, at any rate. Won't spend until then.

xJester1x · April 2015

I can't be bothered looking through all the replies but I can guarantee that the angry players are the ones who have Imperial motifs for sale in guild stores for 100k gold a piece.

Iluvrien · April 2015

xJester1x wrote: »

I can't be bothered looking through all the replies but I can guarantee that the angry players are the ones who have Imperial motifs for sale in guild stores for 100k gold a piece.

Wrong. I have no motifs of any description in any store of any description. Try again?

Zargorius · April 2015

Iluvrien wrote: »

xJester1x wrote: »

I can't be bothered looking through all the replies but I can guarantee that the angry players are the ones who have Imperial motifs for sale in guild stores for 100k gold a piece.

Wrong. I have no motifs of any description in any store of any description. Try again?

Eheheh sure.

Iluvrien · April 2015

Zargorius wrote: »

Eheheh sure.

Yes. Sure. If you like I can give you a direct screen copy of my listings in the only guild store I have access to at the moment.

What you will see is a list of dropped set items, for which I have no use, that I am selling off for exactly what Master Merchant tells me is the going rate... which seems to be about 50% less than the prices I see in Guild Kiosks.

What you won't see is motifs. None. Nadda. Zip. Nil.

I know the concept may blow your mind but some of the people who are against motifs being in the Crown Store aren't farming them and selling them directly as a source of gold. Surreal, huh?

P3ZZL3 · April 2015

MercyKilling wrote: »

I'll never purchase a motif book from another player. Ever. I don't make enough playing casually like I do. Probably never will.

Which is cool and your choice.

Out guild store had something like 24 Dwemer and Rare Motif sales yesterday alone (including Imperials). Granted, all sensibly priced for the market but still, there's 24 people out there that will.

More so, I would actually argue, that's the largest purple sales day we've seen for a while. This shows to me that certainly on the EU Server, people are in belief the drop rate will be nerfed and they will NOT pay for the items in the Crown Store.

Any other GM's seen any trends similar?

Zargorius · April 2015

Iluvrien wrote: »

Zargorius wrote: »

Eheheh sure.

Yes. Sure. If you like I can give you a direct screen copy of my listings in the only guild store I have access to at the moment.

What you will see is a list of dropped set items, for which I have no use, that I am selling off for exactly what Master Merchant tells me is the going rate... which seems to be about 50% less than the prices I see in Guild Kiosks.

What you won't see is motifs. None. Nadda. Zip. Nil.

I know the concept may blow your mind but some of the people who are against motifs being in the Crown Store aren't farming them and selling them directly as a source of gold. Surreal, huh?

So if it doesn't impact you, are you protesting on a principle? Anyway the motifs are there and my crafter is more than happy to have his collection completed. In addition, in game prices for the motifs are dropping as well, looks like average joe wins the day and can enjoy the game more without participating in the container lottery.

Iluvrien · April 2015

Zargorius wrote: »

So if it doesn't impact you, are you protesting on a principle? Anyway the motifs are there and my crafter is more than happy to have his collection completed. In addition, in game prices for the motifs are dropping as well, looks like average joe wins the day and can enjoy the game more without participating in the container lottery.

I think it will impact me. I have even illustrated why I think it will impact me*.

Short version:
1) Increased motif access may decrease the amount to which people will rely on dedicated crafters to provide gear.
2) I am a dedicated crafter.
3) So, the inclusion of motifs in the Crown Store may well affect me.

*[refer to my posts on pages 11 (3 posts), 12 (4 posts) and 15 of this thread for the longer version of the explanation above]

Septimus_Magna · April 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

I would pay 5 million gold for a motif before spending 25 cent on it.

I hope you mean out of principle because the time it takes to save 5 million gold is considerably longer than the time it takes to earn 25 cents.

Genomic · April 2015

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I would pay 5 million gold for a motif before spending 25 cent on it.

I hope you mean out of principle because the time it takes to save 5 million gold is considerably longer than the time it takes to earn 25 cents.

You mean play the game?

This is the problem with B2P/F2P. It's all smoke and mirrors. Make it a long grind to acquire an item ingame, to incentivize people to buy that item from the cash shop. The drop rate for any item can be as long or as short as the devs choose to make it. It costs them nothing to increase or reduce the drop rate, so instantly selling you a 'rare' item is effectively just a con, free money. It staggers me that people fall for this so readily.

alifesoft · April 2015

I think the next will be "Folium Discognitum"

Islyn · April 2015

Aneima wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Ashtaris wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Though one has to wonder if they'll be giving a ninja nerf to drop rates . . .

They already did. Drop rates went way down when 1.6 hit. I guess, in retrospect this was the obvious reason for it.

I'm not sure if the dropped rate changed, but certainly the chances of finding motifs changed when they started filling cabinets and other containers with Legerdemain items. I will admit that farming motifs is much harder now. I did so to make some in-game gold and was an enjoyable part of the game. Now farming motifs will be almost as worthless as the equipment crafting writs.

The statistical drop rate probably wasn't changed. But the table was expanded with legerdemain trash. So, before, you were rolling the dice for a motif, a recipe, a random piece of trash gear, or motif stones. Now you're rolling the dice for a motif, recipe, random piece of trash gear, fence trash, clothing, or motif stones. And, fence trash has a fairly high drop rate. So, in the end, the result is the same. This is in combination with the justice system making motif farming more time consuming and... yes, there was a ninja nerf to the drop rates.

Yes I noticed a drop rate as well, then we were hit with this motif crown store news. Now keep in mind the nerf for legendary materials from hirelings.....does that mean legendary mats are coming to the crown store? I'd be willing to say yes they are.

And soo many lockpicks. When I farm I delete all but 1 first.

Islyn · April 2015

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

Dont you understand that you have to keep the Crown shop seperated from the playerbased economy to keep the balance..

LOL.

The 'player-based economy' is so broken by the crass guild-based system that it doesn't need defending, it needs to die and hopefully this is the first serious wound.

Please explain how the economy is broken?
Yes I am seriously asking for your definition of your statement.
Many thanks!

Ragged_Claw · April 2015

Something else I've noticed, in the last couple of weeks I've only looted 3 Daedra hearts, and all had to be stolen. Thank Talos I've got plenty in the bank. Although I could just be being paranoid... And to all those saying that finding a rare motif was no big deal, I almost wet my pants when I found my Daedra one, again this could just be me

wraith808 · April 2015

MercyKilling wrote: »

Go sell a motif book at a vendor, not to another player. How much do they give you for it? Far less than what is being charged by other players. The game sets the base value, and players inflate from there.

That's not a good analogy. In every game ever created the vendor prices are lower than the going prices, because vendoring is supposed to be a last resort, and takes very little of anything into account in regards to rarity.

P3ZZL3 · April 2015

I sold a Daedric Motif to a Blacksmith in Shornehelm once. After having a minor heart attack, I thank the devs that I had the chance to re-buy it for the 40g or whatever it was

deepseamk20b14_ESO · April 2015

Who cares. It's not giving people an undue advantage. Most people already have all motifs. It's stupid expensive for the rare ones. You can't resell. It literally doesn't matter.

starkerealm · April 2015

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Who cares. It's not giving people an undue advantage. Most people already have all motifs. It's stupid expensive for the rare ones. You can't resell. It literally doesn't matter.

If it wasn't coming right after the in game ad? I'd probably agree with you. As is... it's a disturbing direction to go in. Especially given the Dwemer motif was presented as "something to work for." Only, now, it's "something to work for, or if you're in a high enough tax bracket, yeah, just have one."

EQBallzz · April 2015

Dukegaming wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Sevalaricgirl wrote: »

I have no problem with them selling the motifs but honestly, they need to put back the stones for them. If I paid for 2 motifs, 3000 crowns, I want the copper and daedra hearts readily available for me to make my characters this stuff all the way through the game, not just when they get to max level.

Come on ZOS, fix this. Copper, daedra hearts and whatever is required for the other motifs need to be for sale in game. I'm actually pretty ticked about it because they were available in beta.

For everyone thinking about buying these motifs. Be aware, you CAN'T get the copper, daedra hearts etc from the vendors thus is is not worth buying these motifs. Don't make the mistake I did.

LOL. F2P is made for you. OMG! I can't instantly get the mats to make gear! I can't buy it from an NPC or cash shop with no effort! OMG! What do I do!? Do I have to play the game or buy from another player? OHNOZ!

Don't worry..you will be getting your way soon enough. They will keep catering to your "instant gratification" play style until everything is just a crown purchase away. In the meantime may I suggest Neverwinter? You can already buy what you want there so maybe you can get your F2P fix there until this game has more completely gone down the drain.

I'd say if Zenimax walked down this road, they would have no regards for the "rest" of the community, meaning they would ignore the major portion that still wants the game to remain the way it is (Character Progression), and instead give to those that want an extreme advantage at the beginning of the game. So far Zenimax has done a decent job of listening to the community, which is more than I can say for any other game I've experienced. I would say that as long as there are a majority of people who stand for character progression being a challenge and taking time (somewhat like it currently is), Zenimax probably and most likely wont go down this road, at least they would be smart to if they want to keep a portion of their player-base. Who knows, they did make Vet content easier (back in July of 2014) because apparently it was too difficult for some people's taste. I however never heard of anyone saying Vet content was too difficult, in-game.

I wish I had your optimism but I don't. We are at the very beginning of this system and they have already gone against the spirit of what they claimed they wanted ESO to be and what they claimed they wanted the B2P system to be. I realize that they were quite vague in saying the cash shop would only have "convenience" items but I was initially hopeful that it would not include serious shortcuts to the crafting system or character progression.

In just a few short weeks we already have motifs on the store which means a level 1 can buy all the motifs when it normally would require you to level into the high vet areas of the game before you could even have a small chance at seeing certain motifs dropping (if you ever saw them at all). Not a great thing for those who craft and spent lots of time/gold to get all styles.

This is also just the beginning so while not earth shattering in and of itself is a very troubling omen for things to come. Add to that the 50% XP pots and now we have a 50% shortcut to gaining champion points (the most powerful character progression aspect of the game). Again, this is only the very beginning. What's next? Will the next batch of things add more or less "value" (read: power) to players? Can anyone honestly say that future items will diminish in power? I don't think so.

Takhistis · April 2015

How is Dwemer something to work for? You mean scouring endless Dwemer ruins in the hopes of maybe getting 1 piece? I understand that that is working, but also a bit too much RNG

EQBallzz · April 2015

Cogo wrote: »

Still not a single response from ZoS about the community's concerns for ESO future.

And they removed good posts with detailed feedback like @Attorneyatlawl posted. No negative rant and just asking for any response..at all.

Maybe things will be fine after the console sales and hype gone down a few months in the fall?
Those who isn't interested in consoles and buying game items for money in instead of playing simply likes to have an ESO to play in a year.

@ZOS_GinaBruno did reply in the crown store thread that we could post about items we do not want in the crown store. Not a single response to anything regarding "pay to win" concerns there either.

Damn Cogo..what happened to you? I thought you were the undying white knight of ESO and they could do no wrong and all of our fears and concerns were unfounded? Welcome back to reality!

BlueMagic99 · April 2015

This crap is ridiculous. I understand that it is Convenient for those who are just becoming crafters in the game. I hate to see all the play time that i put in to find those motifs along with all the damnable dwemer scrap to craft items is irreplaceable. Im pissed that it is in the Crown Store, i understand putting cool things in there for people to get ah old of but now it is just making the damn game pointless in many of the major aspects of the game. Getting mounts is one thing but now the Crafting which is a huge role in the game its self is being wrecked as well. Character progression is a huge reason as to why i play ESO. Zenimax and its partners has definitely took a step in the wrong direction with this one.

Heishi · April 2015

People keep using the excuse that "it's cosmetic so it's not p2w". However it is not just cosmetic. The Crown Store version removes the rank requirement of the rare motifs. Rather than having to almost max a crafting skill in order to use the motif, you can just buy it and completely sidestep all the work you used to have to do in order to use the skin. It would be functionally equivalent to putting Dark Seducer or Mannimarco costume in the Crown Store.

I don't have the numbers to calculate the amount of money, time, and material this is sidestepping, but it is significant. Even if this isn't considered pay to win by some, you have to at least admit it is a huge leap in that direction. It is very concerning. TBH with the amount of work and money this allows you to skip, I consider it way more p2w than the upcoming XP boost potions.

Others may or may not feel this way, but I've played since beta and never dropped my sub no matter what bugs, glitches, or lag. Even now with it b2p I still hold my sub because despite all the issues, they have shown a lot of effort towards making ESO a better gaming experience. This though is definitely strike one for me. Short of abolishing the motifs from the store, it is an irrevocable push towards the door.