PvE in Cyrodiil

Enodoc · April 2015

Keron wrote: »

Those blocking the PvP players from entering the region while refusing to take part in the designated purpose of the map are griefing, as simple as that. Griefing is a banable offense.

Ouch. It's not very often one is accused of griefing when one is playing the game entirely as intended.

Dru1076 wrote: »

As an EP player on Azuras star EU, and one who prefers PVE for many reasons, I gotta say I wont be stopping just because of this thread. I always try to take part if I see a keep or resource being attacked, but lately there hasn't been any.
Fact is, my character is VR4, so I can't really take on the NPC guards unless its one on one, let alone another real player. I would love it if there was a PVE campaign for those who want to do the PVE elements in Cyrodil...but it will be a while before I can afford to buy my way out of Azuras star anyway. But if there was one, I'd rather be there instead.

I'm the same. I've tried to participate in attacks/defences recently, but the lag has forced me to skirt around them most of the time and stay away from the big battles. I'm also hopeless at 1v1 against players, so I do admit to trying to avoid PvP when I'm in Cyrodiil right now. I can't participate in the sieges because of the lag, I can't hold my own in a 1v1, so PvE is all that is left to me in Cyrodiil.

On the original issue:

Cyrodiil Campaigns are limited at about 1800 players per Campaign, which is 600 players per alliance.
Let's assume that was pre-nerf to the limit and it's now 1500 (500 per).

Since the initial issue in the OP is PvE players taking spaces in the Pop Counter, I raise you my oft-hated Alliance War Citizen suggestion again, with an additional part:

Under the above suggestion of Citizens, since they have their own zone chat channel and essentially function as a fourth faction, Citizens could be given their own pop cap of 300, which would restore the original 1800 players but not actually affect the current status of the three alliances' limits, thereby maintaining the reason ZOS reduced it. Then anyone who only wants to PvE in Cyrodiil would flag themselves as a Citizen and would not be taking up a spot in the faction's counter.

pppontus wrote: »

@pppontus what's that add-on you have there where you have "Fort Warden Nave has been taken by [faction]"?

glak · April 2015

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

While i wouldnt mind a pve only campaign of cyrodiil, i understand that is apart of the game, and if i have the upper hand, i will indeed also attack the enemy faction member.

What i was referring to, SHADOW2KK, what the OP's comments on removing the pve from cyrodiil entirely, completely disregarding he only represents one demographic that plays this game.

This is not just a mmo, indeed, before it is a mmo, it is a Elder Scrolls game, set in TES world. More than just a handful of players play the game just for that reason. And in TES, exploration has always been the biggest part of the series, sidequests, bits of lore in books, random stories in notes, and in more recent games, hunting deer and other wildlife for pelts or souls.

cyrodiil represents not only pvp, but the only place currently ingame that scales lower level players to be able to tackle the pve elements within cryodiil, allowing friends of differing levels to have a fullfilling pve experiance, allowing rp'ers to have a fullfilling dungeon delve or what have you.

cyrodiil is much more than pvp. and its time close minded players, not unlike the OP, acknowledge that.

Aye very true, well said.

As long as PvE, RP peeps take into account, as you have, that they are in mortal danger for the duration of time they spend in Cyrodill from other players as it is a war zone and to be careful.

Some of the schism between PvE and PvP peeps, and I must admit, it irritates the hell out of me too, is a number of PvE people whine about having no buffs for PvE yet do nothing to help at all, in fact a good number do not go anywhere near Cyrodill and bleat about not having buffs, which really annoys me and others, and the PvE element who come in and not do even a token bit of support for their alliance.

As said, I do not have any problems with people role playing, sightseeing or w/e, but I do wish more people would give us a hand for the war as well, even a wee bit.

One of the reasons i wish a pve only campaign of cyrodiil would open up, would solve alot of this in my opinion. that way people who go to pvp, actually pvp, and we pve'ers or what have you, can have our own little cubbyhole to do our thing in.

Not everyone cares for the faction war, for roleplayers it goes deeper, those that wish to be neutral, its almost on the level of a second personality to not get involved.

I have characters in 2 of the 3 factions, and have played though them all what with cadwells gold and silver. I can honestly say from the beginning i didnt care for the faction war, or even pvp in general, i just want to roam free in cyrodiil, without the fear of getting ganked. I want to explore every nook and cranny, i want to roleplay on the borders of colovia, i want to have a pint in the tavern in chorral, i want to delve into the deepest parts of cyrodiil, all without being ganked every step of the way.

But i will never cry for the devs to remove pvp from cyrodiil, as the op has cried for hte removal of pve from cyrodiil..

The faction war is apart of this game, and the lag needs to be fixed for you guys, but not at the cost of removing things from cyrodiil, never that. They are just going to have to find a way to make it work, with all hte nuts and bolts. It may take a while, but the game is now B2P, you have access to cyrodiil no matter if you have a sub or not, BE PATIENT.

Keeping PvE in Cyrodiil keeps the population spread out and gives reason for ganking and assassination. On the other hand, the server can't handle it yet, just because of a lot of AoE math going on for the other side of the aisle.

Keron · April 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

On the original issue:
Cyrodiil Campaigns are limited at about 1800 players per Campaign, which is 600 players per alliance.

Let's assume that was pre-nerf to the limit and it's now 1500 (500 per).

The current limit is more in the range of 200 per faction. Official numbers have been refused multiple times, so I cannot give a source.

Enodoc wrote: »

Keron wrote: »

Those blocking the PvP players from entering the region while refusing to take part in the designated purpose of the map are griefing, as simple as that. Griefing is a banable offense.

Ouch. It's not very often one is accused of griefing when one is playing the game entirely as intended.

On this, read my posts again. Also, the original purpose of Cyrodiil is PvP. Confirmed by Developers, the purpose of Cyrodiil PvE is to drag people in there that would not originally be interested in PvP - it is a means to an end, even @Sharee confirmed this. The intent (like so many of ZOS, at least in my personal opinion) has failed. It only serves to create a rift in the player base as very much shown in this discussion.

pppontus · April 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

@pppontus what's that add-on you have there where you have "Fort Warden Nave has been taken by [faction]"?

I believe it's Kill Counter

Enodoc wrote: »

On the original issue:
Cyrodiil Campaigns are limited at about 1800 players per Campaign, which is 600 players per alliance.

Let's assume that was pre-nerf to the limit and it's now 1500 (500 per).

Since the initial issue in the OP is PvE players taking spaces in the Pop Counter, I raise you my oft-hated Alliance War Citizen suggestion again, with an additional part:
Under the above suggestion of Citizens, since they have their own zone chat channel and essentially function as a fourth faction, Citizens could be given their own pop cap of 300, which would restore the original 1800 players but not actually affect the current status of the three alliances' limits, thereby maintaining the reason ZOS reduced it. Then anyone who only wants to PvE in Cyrodiil would flag themselves as a Citizen and would not be taking up a spot in the faction's counter.

Last I heard population cap is now 450 players, in total, according to someone who datamined the client. Obviously this is not necessarily the truth, but over the course of time my own estimate would be that there can only be ~100-150 players per alliance at the moment. This is ridiculously low and needs to be upped, but sadly as long as people zerg the servers to death that won't happen.

The issue with your suggestion is that the rewards for Cyrodiil content is way too high for it not to include the risk of PvP. You can complete the quests in 30 seconds per quest and get a large amount of gold and xp, and the grinding spots are amazing in terms of XP. Which is a reward for players who go face the danger, and I love this aspect of Cyrodiil as it is what makes it "open world pvp" and not just siege keep, siege keep, siege keep. Don't get me wrong, I like the PvP as it is but it gets so repetetive - at which point you can go into a delve to get a buff and meanwhile kill some people farming there - etc.

IMO taking these things out of Cyrodiil would just kill it, there would be nothing to do unless you want to zerg from keep to keep. At which point it would lag even more and the pop cap would eventually be reduced to 10 players per alliance.

Sharee · April 2015

Keron wrote: »

Confirmed by Developers, the purpose of Cyrodiil PvE is to drag people in there that would not originally be interested in PvP - it is a means to an end, even @Sharee confirmed this. The intent - like so many of ZOS - has failed.

Say what?

How would you possibly be in the position to even make such a statement? Do you have the statistics at hand on how many players who never intended to PvP discovered how fun it is and stayed? How many of those people in your keep capture group wouldn't even be there without some achievement luring them into cyro couple months ago?

Keron · April 2015

Yeah, you found another detail to pick on, congratulations. I edited it, you happy now? Or do you feel I'm not "entitled" to a personal opinion?

Enodoc · April 2015

Keron wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Ouch. It's not very often one is accused of griefing when one is playing the game entirely as intended.

On this, read my posts again. Also, the original purpose of Cyrodiil is PvP. Confirmed by Developers, the purpose of Cyrodiil PvE is to drag people in there that would not originally be interested in PvP - it is a means to an end, even @Sharee confirmed this. The intent - like so many of ZOS - has failed. It only serves to create a rift in the player base as very much shown in this discussion.

Sure, which means that having PvE in Cyrodiil is intended, even if it's perhaps not being used as intended. What I was really griping at was your use of "griefing" to label players who are participating in a legitimate gameplay activity, as though they are maliciously restricting people who want to PvP.

pppontus wrote: »

The issue with your suggestion is that the rewards for Cyrodiil content is way too high for it not to include the risk of PvP. You can complete the quests in 30 seconds per quest and get a large amount of gold and xp, and the grinding spots are amazing in terms of XP. Which is a reward for players who go face the danger, and I love this aspect of Cyrodiil as it is what makes it "open world pvp" and not just siege keep, siege keep, siege keep. Don't get me wrong, I like the PvP as it is but it gets so repetetive - at which point you can go into a delve to get a buff and meanwhile kill some people farming there - etc.

The risk of PvP is still there; under my suggestion, Citizens have a yellow glow instead of a red glow, but can still be killed. The attacker just gets no AP for the kill, because they have killed someone who does not affect the war.

Keron · April 2015

So a failed intent, or something not being used as intended, is reason enough to not change it? I don't understand you people. At all.

Sharee · April 2015

[self-censored]

eventide03b14a_ESO · April 2015

Right now the best XP is in Cyrodiil. Sorry but I don't want to be V11 forever so I'm going where the XP is. Unless ZOS gives us an XP alternative that's competitive then it's going to continue to be a place for PvE. I'm actually surprised that people would complain about PvErs in Cyrodiil as they should be pretty easy marks for veteran PvPers.

Sharee · April 2015

[nevermind]

Rune_Relic · April 2015

Sharee wrote: »

Keron wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Technically it only takes two skilled players to capture a keep. Even if we assume that PvE'rs make up a high percentage of cyrodiil's population(something i absolutely do not agree with), it would not interfere with the PvP'ers ability to capture anything. The only thing that interferes is having less PvP players actively participating in the siege than the opposition - but that is hardly the PvE contents' fault, as the PvE content affects both sides' amount of PvE'rs equally.

Technically, it takes X more players to capture a keep than there are opposing players defending it (and depending on the individual player respectively group skill, X can be negative).

We are not talking about empty Cyrodiil and PvDoor.

That's exactly what i was saying. "The only thing that interferes [with a keep capture] is having less PvP players actively participating in the siege than the opposition". It does not matter how few of you there are (as long as it is not less than 2). Only thing that matters is that you either outnumber or outskill the opposition.

And neither of those two condition is lessened by the presence of PvE content in cyrodiil, because that content affects both sides equally.

But faction dont PM each other and say...'hey we have 100 people playing PVE today so can you do the same'
kthnxbye
And there is a pop lock. If there is only 30 PVP players poplocked because everyone else PVE and the opposition has 60 PVP defending when 50% population there is nothing we can do except lose all keeps and resources.
We have lost the campaign by default because PVE tourists wont help....but pop lock the game.

Enodoc · April 2015

Keron wrote: »

So a failed intent, or something not being used as intended, is reason enough to not change it? I don't understand you people. At all.

It was your opinion which I was commenting on directly. If, as you say, ZOS' intention with this content was to get PvE players into Cyrodiil and encourage them to PvP, my opinion is that it is working as intended, so there's no need to change it. That's why I'm in Cyrodiil at all - came for the PvE, stayed for the PvP, recently abandoned the PvP because the lag makes it unplayable, now living off the PvE until the PvP is playable again.

pppontus · April 2015

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Keron wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Technically it only takes two skilled players to capture a keep. Even if we assume that PvE'rs make up a high percentage of cyrodiil's population(something i absolutely do not agree with), it would not interfere with the PvP'ers ability to capture anything. The only thing that interferes is having less PvP players actively participating in the siege than the opposition - but that is hardly the PvE contents' fault, as the PvE content affects both sides' amount of PvE'rs equally.

Technically, it takes X more players to capture a keep than there are opposing players defending it (and depending on the individual player respectively group skill, X can be negative).

We are not talking about empty Cyrodiil and PvDoor.

That's exactly what i was saying. "The only thing that interferes [with a keep capture] is having less PvP players actively participating in the siege than the opposition". It does not matter how few of you there are (as long as it is not less than 2). Only thing that matters is that you either outnumber or outskill the opposition.

And neither of those two condition is lessened by the presence of PvE content in cyrodiil, because that content affects both sides equally.

But faction dont PM each other and say...'hey we have 100 people playing PVE today so can you do the same'
kthnxbye
And there is a pop lock. If there is only 30 PVP players poplocked because everyone else PVE and the opposition has 60 PVP defending when 50% population there is nothing we can do except lose all keeps and resources.
We have lost the campaign by default because PVE tourists wont help....but pop lock the game.

I just really don't see how you can have so many PvE'rs and why they would even be on Azura's Star? I've spent my fair share in delves/dolmens/cities on that campaign since it's all blue anyway, and I rarely see any red there. I mean honestly, the red PvE'rs would have it better if they went to Thornblade even.

But I do see the 50-100 red PvPers every night. They just don't really produce anything, they fight and they kill a lot of people, but they don't make progress because they always go the same people vs the same enemy group and it just goes back and forth.

I still haven't seen any group other than AD taking Bleakers behind us, even though I gave our weakness away for free

You can take that relatively quickly with 2-4 players even. Then people have to fall back, you keep them busy and the rest can retake arrius/chal that they're so desperate for. Considering they fight there and only there 24/7

I'll go looking in the usual hotspots tonight if my migraine settles, see if I can see an abnormal number of PvE'rs - should be good AP if there's as many as you guys suggest

Sharee · April 2015

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Keron wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Technically it only takes two skilled players to capture a keep. Even if we assume that PvE'rs make up a high percentage of cyrodiil's population(something i absolutely do not agree with), it would not interfere with the PvP'ers ability to capture anything. The only thing that interferes is having less PvP players actively participating in the siege than the opposition - but that is hardly the PvE contents' fault, as the PvE content affects both sides' amount of PvE'rs equally.

Technically, it takes X more players to capture a keep than there are opposing players defending it (and depending on the individual player respectively group skill, X can be negative).

We are not talking about empty Cyrodiil and PvDoor.

That's exactly what i was saying. "The only thing that interferes [with a keep capture] is having less PvP players actively participating in the siege than the opposition". It does not matter how few of you there are (as long as it is not less than 2). Only thing that matters is that you either outnumber or outskill the opposition.

And neither of those two condition is lessened by the presence of PvE content in cyrodiil, because that content affects both sides equally.

But faction dont PM each other and say...'hey we have 100 people playing PVE today so can you do the same'.

That is not an issue, because it balances out over time. You may have more pve'rs today, they may have more tomorrow. Cyrodiil battles are long-term.

DisgracefulMind · April 2015

All I see in here is a bunch of people salty that they got torn up while trying to do quests and were forced to join in on Horse Simulator Online like the rest of the hardcore PvPers. Get over yourselves. The PvE content in Cyrodiil is attached to PvP, and should stay that way. I should be able to kill you while you quest in Cyrodiil just like I kill players who aren't questing in Cyrodiil and are PvPing. It's the only zone that we get the opportunity to do that. I don't care about your RP, I don't care that you have no clue how to PvP, I don't care that you want to explore. When I stumble upon questers in Cyrodiil, you are my treat, and I will feast because you are in the one realm that I have to actually enjoy playing. Most of us aren't PvE players in Cyrodiil, we PvP mainly. We don't expect to go into PvE lands and kill you (we all know you will all cry and cry to make sure PvP never enters your zones and zones of content), so why would you go into our zone and expect us not to kill you?

A PvE only instance of Cyrodiil? Are you kidding me? You guys get almost the WHOLE GAME TO YOURSELVES. We have ONE zone. So yes, keep coming in, and I hope ZoS NEVER gives you that option. You should have to face the PvPers face to face while trying to quest in our domain.

Kartalin · April 2015

With the Justice System phase 2 (whenever that releases), it adds PVP to PVE land. Turnabout is fair play, I guess. If I were legitimately upset about the current situation, I could set up shop in a major city and farm hapless thieves from my own faction.

Keron · April 2015

Well, I sincerely hope that Justice II is implemented with an opt-in setting, otherwise it will be bad for the game.

Sharee · April 2015

Keron wrote: »

Well, I sincerely hope that Justice II is implemented with an opt-in setting, otherwise it will be bad for the game.

It kinda is opt-in by default, as you only get vunerable by your own voluntary action(committing a crime).

TroubledOne · April 2015

I love love love Cyrodiil in this game the way it is. It's honestly my favorite part of the game because I can go in and join the fighting or go off and do quests with the potential of getting involved in minor skirmishes. Then if I don't want the risk of getting killed, I can leave Cyrodiil and go somewhere else. The way they set this up is the best of both worlds from other MMOs with PVE and PVP servers.

Pirhana7_ESO · April 2015

skarvika wrote: »

I'm pretty much a PVP guy myself. Decided to actually try some PVE in Cyrodiil the other day yknow, just to get myself some xp...go into Bruma...boom, ganked. Let out an exasperated sigh, waited a few minutes, went back to Bruma. Tried sneaking this time. Boom, ganked again. Guess who's still not doing PVE content. Why does PVE in Cyrodiil even exist? You can't do any of the quests properly because gankers know that the questing zones are prime spots to pick off solo players, so what's the point?

exactly, you were killed while trying to pve, that is the whole point of it. To cause pvp encounters. It gives you something to do that will cause you to encounter an enemy player doing the same. It has a huge point to be there

Pirhana7_ESO · April 2015

Keron wrote: »

I changed my mind. Since you are so adamant that the pop indicators are correct, the only explanation left is that half to three quarters of the population playing on EP Azura EU is doing dolmens or ERPing in some far out corner. Get rid of them. Remove any and all PvE content from Cyrodiil that may interest a PvE player in coming to that map for any purpose other than PvP. Also, remove all Skill Points from alliance ranks and make all Alliance Warfare skills only work in Cyrodiil. Remove all Skyshards, Quests, Delves, Dolmens, Achievements, Stories, POIs or whatever has nothing to do with the purpose of this map (and that I hope is PvP).

Alternatively and preferrable from my point of view is kick and ban every player that does not attack an opposing faction player within 15 minutes. That would also get rid of those just idling in keeps for dee ticks.

Yes, I'm slightly miffed at the game right now, but this opinion stands irrespective of my mental state. Do something.

The thing that makes Cyrodiil so great is that it has so many flavors. keep sieges, zergs, roaming group fights, towns, dungeons, and quests that CAUSE PVP encounters,

SO basically you want to take away all the PVE that causes great skrimish fights as well as the open PVP world server feel of doing things and having to watch your back? Not everyone just want to do keep sieges and zerg standoffs 24/7 I like going to towns at times and having good 1v1 battles, i like going into enemy dungeons and looking for enemy adventerers. The only thing PVE players do is give PVPers more targets and different forms of PVP encounters

Cyrodiil is labelled as a PVP /PVE zone for a reason, when you start removing things, it removes the flavors that make it so great an dthen it will become more stale and boring.