nirnhorned on armor broke the game

technohic · April 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

babanovac wrote: »

Yuke wrote: »

There is no contradiction in this discussion.

Its easy to understand that as long as sorces can stack up damage without giving up defense (shields = life), they cant nerf nirnhoned and as long as nirnhoned is not being nerfed, all non-sorc magicka classes (or the few hybrids) are seriously *** up.

As i said, i am one of those who wear nirnhoned. I have 37K resists. The average lavawhip hits me for 2300damage. The average Lotus fan for 3200.

Sorces still crit me for over 10k Damage.

This needs to be understood by all sorcs out there. There are no magicka DKs, templars or NBs that can do this. If nirn is to be nerfed this kind o damage needs to be nerfed too. No matter how much you guys think it's normal to get hit by 10k with 40%-50% spell resist, IT IS NOT.

Nerf nirn. But nerf high damage abilities too, so that people don't die in 2 shots anymore.

Please don't lump all Sorcs together! I don't want Nirnhoned nerfed either. Can you imagine the outcry if players who spent 15000 G per PIECE of armor woke up one day to discover it had no benefit anymore?

So by your logic, if anything ever comes out that is completely unbalanced or bugged; paying a lot of gold for it should mean nothing should ever happen to it?

Sounds like a great plan.

Draxys · April 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

babanovac wrote: »

Yuke wrote: »

There is no contradiction in this discussion.

Its easy to understand that as long as sorces can stack up damage without giving up defense (shields = life), they cant nerf nirnhoned and as long as nirnhoned is not being nerfed, all non-sorc magicka classes (or the few hybrids) are seriously *** up.

As i said, i am one of those who wear nirnhoned. I have 37K resists. The average lavawhip hits me for 2300damage. The average Lotus fan for 3200.

Sorces still crit me for over 10k Damage.

This needs to be understood by all sorcs out there. There are no magicka DKs, templars or NBs that can do this. If nirn is to be nerfed this kind o damage needs to be nerfed too. No matter how much you guys think it's normal to get hit by 10k with 40%-50% spell resist, IT IS NOT.

Nerf nirn. But nerf high damage abilities too, so that people don't die in 2 shots anymore.

Please don't lump all Sorcs together! I don't want Nirnhoned nerfed either. Can you imagine the outcry if players who spent 15000 G per PIECE of armor woke up one day to discover it had no benefit anymore?

no one is calling for it to be useless, just working correctly and fairly

Valnas · April 2015

fix frags, don't nerf magicka dps cause your listening to squeaky wheels who died to bugged frags

Even non crit, they're kinda 2 legit

bug pre-existed 1.6, and was reintroduced and bugged on PTS before live.

tooltip frag is 8662, and 9485 w/ surge up.

i guess this is the new pts now!

babanovac · April 2015

Valnas wrote: »

fix frags, don't nerf magicka dps cause your listening to squeaky wheels who died to bugged frags

Even non crit, they're kinda 2 legit

bug pre-existed 1.6, and was reintroduced and bugged on PTS before live.

tooltip frag is 8662, and 9485 w/ surge up.

i guess this is the new pts now!

Agreed. It's not magicka damage in general that needs to be toned down. It's only certain abilities. The same is the case for stamina dps.

Ezareth · April 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

babanovac wrote: »

Yuke wrote: »

There is no contradiction in this discussion.

Its easy to understand that as long as sorces can stack up damage without giving up defense (shields = life), they cant nerf nirnhoned and as long as nirnhoned is not being nerfed, all non-sorc magicka classes (or the few hybrids) are seriously *** up.

As i said, i am one of those who wear nirnhoned. I have 37K resists. The average lavawhip hits me for 2300damage. The average Lotus fan for 3200.

Sorces still crit me for over 10k Damage.

This needs to be understood by all sorcs out there. There are no magicka DKs, templars or NBs that can do this. If nirn is to be nerfed this kind o damage needs to be nerfed too. No matter how much you guys think it's normal to get hit by 10k with 40%-50% spell resist, IT IS NOT.

Nerf nirn. But nerf high damage abilities too, so that people don't die in 2 shots anymore.

Please don't lump all Sorcs together! I don't want Nirnhoned nerfed either. Can you imagine the outcry if players who spent 15000 G per PIECE of armor woke up one day to discover it had no benefit anymore?

You mean kind of like I did when I crafted 2 Nirnhoned staves(Fire + Resto) after the original Sharpened Nerf, deconstructed the sharpened staves (+18% has to be better than +14% right?), found out that Nirnhoned was bugged so I had to recraft my sharpened staves, then in 1.6 Nirnhoned was finally fixed so I deconstructed my Sharpened staves again only to have Nirnhoned once again nerfed below Sharpened and had to reconstruct my sharpened staves again (Didn't deconstruct the nirnhoned that time) and then of course sharpened is nerfed again right after.

Point is, just because you spend a lot of gold and mats on something doesn't mean a thing. Remember all the people who crafted Twin Sisters when it was OP? Or even the people now Crafting Ravagers. No gear is BiS for long as anything that is too powerful is *always* nerfed. If you're crafting something in gold and thinking you're going to be using it for the next 3 months you haven't learned.

Either way 15K gold per piece is nothing. Many people are making anywhere from 40-80K gold an hour including myself. It's not a big deal.

Pixysticks wrote: »

I'll probably just end up going stamina, like everyone else-- until they fix nirnhorned or sharpened.

I'm considering the same thing except instead I've decided to just dive in and grind out 5 or 6 CPs a day until they actually do something about all the issues in Cyrodiil. I'm tired of having to rework my gearing and build every freaking patch to exploit the next change they put in that even the crudest theorycrafter could tell you is not a good idea

Oughash · April 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

I'm considering the same thing except instead I've decided to just dive in and grind out 5 or 6 CPs a day until they actually do something about all the issues in Cyrodiil. I'm tired of having to rework my gearing and build every freaking patch to exploit the next change they put in that even the crudest theorycrafter could tell you is not a good idea

That sounds... really terrible. I think i may do that.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · April 2015

I have to say this is because your build is MAX magic and MAX regen where is the power cause hitting someone with a weak Attack only works if it does good damage you focus on max stat and regen then use your CP and weapon to add pen and that worked before now more people buff spell resistance

Damage for your Crystal Fragments, Teleport Strike, Biting Jabs and Lava Whips is mitigated how is this different than your damage shield stopping all my stamina Attacks?

Ezareth · April 2015

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

I have to say this is because your build is MAX magic and MAX regen where is the power cause hitting someone with a weak Attack only works if it does good damage you focus on max stat and regen then use your CP and weapon to add pen and that worked before now more people buff spell resistance

Damage for your Crystal Fragments, Teleport Strike, Biting Jabs and Lava Whips is mitigated how is this different than your damage shield stopping all my stamina Attacks?

This is part of the problem. *Max* Magicka and *Max* regen in the same build are not possible. To hit the hardest you have to be using Food and Mage mundus, Magicka + Spell power set bonuses. To have a Regen build you have to be using drink and attronach mundus and magicka regen set bonuses. You can't do both.

I guarantee you Pixy isn't rolling around with 3000 Magicka regen like I am.

Damage shields mitigating your stamina attacks is no different than your dodge roll avoiding my spell casts. Defensive abilities are defensive. Each have areas they are strong against and weak against. Each have tradeoffs as well.

Xsorus · April 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

@DeLindsay is the guy who figured out the math behind nirnhoned in PTS. Any understanding we have is largely based on his knowledge.

Then his *math* is probably the reason we have this mess as it is. I remember the thread and it was before they "Fixed" Nirnhoned. Either way, what Nirnhoned is doing today was not intended and his understanding of how it works was obviously incorrect.

Ishammael wrote: »

woah woah woah? Is this true? This is totally broken if true.

Yeah now Imagine a Sorc who is forced to rely upon damage shields to survive. This is why we spam them like no tomorrow after every single hit we take because having weak shields active is a sure way to get instagibbed.

Back to the subject did anyone bring this issue up to Jess/Eric at the meeting with ZoS last night?

Its doing exactly what the tooltip says it does.

Xsorus · April 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

I have to say this is because your build is MAX magic and MAX regen where is the power cause hitting someone with a weak Attack only works if it does good damage you focus on max stat and regen then use your CP and weapon to add pen and that worked before now more people buff spell resistance

Damage for your Crystal Fragments, Teleport Strike, Biting Jabs and Lava Whips is mitigated how is this different than your damage shield stopping all my stamina Attacks?

This is part of the problem. *Max* Magicka and *Max* regen in the same build are not possible. To hit the hardest you have to be using Food and Mage mundus, Magicka + Spell power set bonuses. To have a Regen build you have to be using drink and attronach mundus and magicka regen set bonuses. You can't do both.

I guarantee you Pixy isn't rolling around with 3000 Magicka regen like I am.

Damage shields mitigating your stamina attacks is no different than your dodge roll avoiding my spell casts. Defensive abilities are defensive. Each have areas they are strong against and weak against. Each have tradeoffs as well.

Didn't you make this thread?

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/161212/rise-of-the-perma-dodger/p1

Which is a build you're worried about that has to completely ignore weapon damage pretty much entirely, making it so you won't be able to kill pretty much anyone with a shield?

Ezareth · April 2015

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

@DeLindsay is the guy who figured out the math behind nirnhoned in PTS. Any understanding we have is largely based on his knowledge.

Then his *math* is probably the reason we have this mess as it is. I remember the thread and it was before they "Fixed" Nirnhoned. Either way, what Nirnhoned is doing today was not intended and his understanding of how it works was obviously incorrect.

Ishammael wrote: »

woah woah woah? Is this true? This is totally broken if true.

Yeah now Imagine a Sorc who is forced to rely upon damage shields to survive. This is why we spam them like no tomorrow after every single hit we take because having weak shields active is a sure way to get instagibbed.

Back to the subject did anyone bring this issue up to Jess/Eric at the meeting with ZoS last night?

Its doing exactly what the tooltip says it does.

Thank you for that astute observation captain. Perhaps instead of making quotes on single lines of text and trying to form arguments out of them you should try viewing the entire conversation in context.

Let me reframe for you:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

OVERVIEW

The Elder Scrolls Online v1.6.4 is the next incremental patch on the PTS, and addresses additional issues surrounding gameplay, UI, the Crown Store, and more.

Itemization
Actually increased the value of the Nirnhoned Trait so it is 50% stronger than the Reinforced trait for armor, as mentioned previously.

Now you can try to argue semantics to save face but you and I both know there is a major disconnect between the intent of the change actually implemented. Or are you suggesting that Reinforce should actually multiply your overall armor by 16%? I for one could definitely get on board with that......

@ZOS_GinaBruno Could you or someone from ZOS please confirm that this is indeed *not* working as intended?

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · April 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

I have to say this is because your build is MAX magic and MAX regen where is the power cause hitting someone with a weak Attack only works if it does good damage you focus on max stat and regen then use your CP and weapon to add pen and that worked before now more people buff spell resistance

Damage for your Crystal Fragments, Teleport Strike, Biting Jabs and Lava Whips is mitigated how is this different than your damage shield stopping all my stamina Attacks?

This is part of the problem. *Max* Magicka and *Max* regen in the same build are not possible. To hit the hardest you have to be using Food and Mage mundus, Magicka + Spell power set bonuses. To have a Regen build you have to be using drink and attronach mundus and magicka regen set bonuses. You can't do both.

I guarantee you Pixy isn't rolling around with 3000 Magicka regen like I am.

Damage shields mitigating your stamina attacks is no different than your dodge roll avoiding my spell casts. Defensive abilities are defensive. Each have areas they are strong against and weak against. Each have tradeoffs as well.

Yea no rolling stops some damage not all incoming damage some things randomly hits you and all Channels keep hitting you so a shield stops "x" damage

I love the the fact that you both say that rolling is killing the game but when shield are brought up in an argument then the stamina solution is easy just roll what skill had the argue all sides passive I really need that as I will stick to my guns forever

Played a Stamina Nightblade beta day one and stuck with it till they got better sticking to your guns might be a Nightblade passive

Winnamine · April 2015

Huntler wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

They're probably going to wait until everyone crafts a full set of Gold Nirnhoned armor before they fix the bug kind of like they did with the weapon trait bug. This is the kind of things ZoS uses as a "Gold" sink to keep us players from stockpiling too much.

The best part about this bug is you can throw the trait on a freaking belt to get maximum effect where other traits like Infused or Reinforced give much smaller effects.

It would be a shame if someone aware of this... bought up all of the cheap nirn mats and significantly raised the prices in anticipation of this... that would be a shame..... borderline immoral....

I see what you did there.....

Isbilen · April 2015

37K spell resistance, was just hit for 11K with Disintegration. If that passive is affected by spell resistance I can only imagine how bad it is for someone without Nirnhoned.

Teargrants · April 2015

Isbilen wrote: »

37K spell resistance, was just hit for 11K with Disintegration. If that passive is affected by spell resistance I can only imagine how bad it is for someone without Nirnhoned.

Anecdotes like this don't mean anything unless you actually provide video so ppl can see exactly what's going on.

For instance, did you have a sliver of a shield left on as you were in execute range, and hence have the disintegrate proc on you calculated w/ 0 spell resistance?

Isbilen · April 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

Isbilen wrote: »

37K spell resistance, was just hit for 11K with Disintegration. If that passive is affected by spell resistance I can only imagine how bad it is for someone without Nirnhoned.

Anecdotes like this don't mean anything unless you actually provide video so ppl can see exactly what's going on.

For instance, did you have a sliver of a shield left on as you were in execute range, and hence have the disintegrate proc on you calculated w/ 0 spell resistance?

I dropped all my damage shields earlier today after some reading in this thread

Xsorus · April 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

@DeLindsay is the guy who figured out the math behind nirnhoned in PTS. Any understanding we have is largely based on his knowledge.

Then his *math* is probably the reason we have this mess as it is. I remember the thread and it was before they "Fixed" Nirnhoned. Either way, what Nirnhoned is doing today was not intended and his understanding of how it works was obviously incorrect.

Ishammael wrote: »

woah woah woah? Is this true? This is totally broken if true.

Yeah now Imagine a Sorc who is forced to rely upon damage shields to survive. This is why we spam them like no tomorrow after every single hit we take because having weak shields active is a sure way to get instagibbed.

Back to the subject did anyone bring this issue up to Jess/Eric at the meeting with ZoS last night?

Its doing exactly what the tooltip says it does.

Thank you for that astute observation captain. Perhaps instead of making quotes on single lines of text and trying to form arguments out of them you should try viewing the entire conversation in context.

Let me reframe for you:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

OVERVIEW

The Elder Scrolls Online v1.6.4 is the next incremental patch on the PTS, and addresses additional issues surrounding gameplay, UI, the Crown Store, and more.

Itemization
Actually increased the value of the Nirnhoned Trait so it is 50% stronger than the Reinforced trait for armor, as mentioned previously.

Now you can try to argue semantics to save face but you and I both know there is a major disconnect between the intent of the change actually implemented. Or are you suggesting that Reinforce should actually multiply your overall armor by 16%? I for one could definitely get on board with that......

@ZOS_GinaBruno Could you or someone from ZOS please confirm that this is indeed *not* working as intended?

Reinforced says specifically that it increases that items armor value by a specific %... Nirnhoned says it raises your spell resist by a specific %.

Both do exactly what they say they do.

Schurge · April 2015

Reading these threads make me so much more excited to get through the VR grind to try out this imbalanced mess of a game.

Tripwyr · April 2015

If anyone needs Fortified Nirncrux, let me know. I have 18 available right now.

Sypher · April 2015

Switched back to magicka Nightblade today. Will be switching back to stam first thing tomorrow.

Probably won't switch back til nirnhoned is fixed and fall damage for destructive reach is put back.

Ezareth · April 2015

Sypher wrote: »

Switched back to magicka Nightblade today. Will be switching back to stam first thing tomorrow.

Probably won't switch back til nirnhoned is fixed and fall damage for destructive reach is put back.

At least the mobs I'm grinding aren't wearing Nirnhoned (Yet).

Estelee · April 2015

This is hilarious.

The only things that are OP in this game are skilled players who know what they're doing
* gasp * *shriek *

I'm in Cyrodiil everyday. I see people who are top "stam build" and top "magicka build" get rolled all the time.
I saw a guy spend forever on a top pvp build ( magicka ), and was slaying, till he ran up against someone who knew how to fight him and he was dead in seconds flat. Over. and over. and over. Did he rage like a baby on the forums? * hushed whispers * no! He kept fighting till he got it right. * random person dies of heart attack in background * Now when he encounters this particular player my friend steamrolls him like freshly laid pavement

Don't you think in almost a year of moaning people would realize that there is never going to be a complete fix to the unevenness of things.

Because you cannot except zenimax to make you magically as good at their game as other people are.

I get zenimax doesn't get things right. I know that, but geez. politely ask them to rerun numbers, not this baby-rage fest that goes on all the time.

Now for some perspective ::

I'm a Magicka build TEMPLAR, who was slaying in pvp before Jesus beam, with 3 of my skills completely flatout useless. now even with these supposed super-sorcs I'm still alive and well! Woohoo.

P.S Zeni, seriously. Fix the bleeping toppling charge. It's been a year.

Domander · April 2015

I guess it's a good time to experiment with a stam build.

Hope they fix this soon, like Monday soon.

Tripwyr · April 2015

Domander wrote: »

I guess it's a good time to experiment with a stam build.

Hope they fix this soon, like Monday soon.

You already had the stamina build covered when Lethal Arrow was broken.

Fatalyis · April 2015

Sypher wrote: »

Switched back to magicka Nightblade today. Will be switching back to stam first thing tomorrow.

Probably won't switch back til nirnhoned is fixed and fall damage for destructive reach is put back.

Yeah, I feel you.

Switched back to Magicka NB a week or two ago and have been trying to cope with it...but I just can't....it's ridiculous.

Sypher · April 2015

Fatalyis wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

Switched back to magicka Nightblade today. Will be switching back to stam first thing tomorrow.

Probably won't switch back til nirnhoned is fixed and fall damage for destructive reach is put back.

Yeah, I feel you.

Switched back to Magicka NB a week or two ago and have been trying to cope with it...but I just can't....it's ridiculous.

Magicka isn't horrible. But when I run into that guy that's wearing 4-5 peices of nirnhoned and my 5k tool tip is hitting them for 1.9K and it feels like I'm scratching them, I'd rather run stam and actually hit decent numbers considering I'm a glass canon on both my magicka and stamina builds.

Domander · April 2015

Tripwyr wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

I guess it's a good time to experiment with a stam build.

Hope they fix this soon, like Monday soon.

You already had the stamina build covered when Lethal Arrow was broken.

You mean my bow build that I built after they made bows a viable main weapon, and kept using until 1.6 (situationally), but now can't switch back and forth anymore? It was more useful sniping when extremely outnumbered than feeding you gankers AP.

Yeah, probably not going to use that build. It's not fun anymore (for me at least) since 1.6 to rely only on bow for damage, too much dodge rolling and shield stacking.

Now tell me, how is your post on topic?

Are you sore about me killing you or something?

babanovac · April 2015

So no response from ZOS?... Is nirn working as intended or is everyone using it an exploiter?

Kas · April 2015

i don't see many sorcs rerolling in order to paly stamina archtypes.
the aother way roudn though, ...

sure, nirnhoned is very strong and totally crazy compared to how little other traits do. but you still have to give up on many drop sets in favor of crafting nirn pieces and so far I don't see stam build being superior. however, this might be due to the huge amount of players that still enter pvp in pve armor that still die qickly to spelldamage.

most importantly though, the best synergies are still from magicka abilities (or ults). Especially with undaunted command, I still think coordinated use of synergies is superior to anything else. And for that you need magicka users (or a mix fo stam + mag).

c0rp · April 2015

babanovac wrote: »

So no response from ZOS?... Is nirn working as intended or is everyone using it an exploiter?

Its working as intended. Thats not the issue. The issue its OP and there is no "+ overall % physical armor counter" to it. Its called a huge DISCREPANCY that is making the game imbalanced. Which is probably why no one from zos has commented on this thread...

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_MattFiror @ZOS_PaulSage etc etc