Lotus Fan vs Ambush

Flawlless · April 2015

So i've been finally getting around to leveling my nightblade and I noticed the melee magicka nightblade has taken a big hit with damage. Lotus Fan is an awful ability and if you take that morph you lose a lot of burst. What I don't understand is why ZOS would give Ambush to stamina users when most stamina users would rather have something like Crit Charge as a gap closer, which has even higher burst than Ambush. Please change the Lotus Fan morph into something that has viable single target damage instead of a useless aoe snare.

FMonk · April 2015

You can leave it unmorphed if you want a magicka gap closer. Not as strong as ambush used to be, but probably still better than lotus fan.

Flawlless · April 2015

Yeah that's what I was thinking as a short term solution, but still they should give us magicka people a morph that's actually worth using.

Samadhi · April 2015

FMonk wrote: »

You can leave it unmorphed if you want a magicka gap closer. Not as strong as ambush used to be, but probably still better than lotus fan.

Leaving a skill unmorphed in order for it to be more effective than morphing it is kind of troubling.

Fatalyis · April 2015

Lotus Fan is worthless, and definitely needs reworked. The concept of a PBAOE DoT is nice in theory, but to be honest, DoTs in this game are pretty lame. I really wish they would do something different with it to make it worthwhile.

tinythinker · April 2015

Other recent threads have suggested additions to the ability such increasing the base and/or DOT damage or granting CC immunity to the caster. I dunno, maybe putting the original target off balance might also be a nice addition.

Varicite · April 2015

Flawlless wrote: »

Yeah that's what I was thinking as a short term solution, but still they should give us magicka people a morph that's actually worth using.

You mean like all of the other magicka abilities that a NB has access to?

Draxys · April 2015

IMO, making some morphs stamina is a terrible solution to the lack of stamina options in class trees, as evidenced by the ambush situation. As a magicka DK, I miss my unstable flame :[

Zhoyzu · April 2015

Samadhi wrote: »

FMonk wrote: »

You can leave it unmorphed if you want a magicka gap closer. Not as strong as ambush used to be, but probably still better than lotus fan.

Leaving a skill unmorphed in order for it to be more effective than morphing it is kind of troubling.

lotus fan has always been bad. i dont think ive ever seen it used.

JDar · April 2015

I do not see why Lotus Fan is that bad. I Lotus Fan>Fear>Funnel Health all the time. However if you're saying it needs a buff, I'm okay with that

Just because it isn't super bursty doesn't mean its useless

tinythinker · April 2015

Zhoyzu wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

FMonk wrote: »

You can leave it unmorphed if you want a magicka gap closer. Not as strong as ambush used to be, but probably still better than lotus fan.

Leaving a skill unmorphed in order for it to be more effective than morphing it is kind of troubling.

lotus fan has always been bad. i dont think ive ever seen it used.

I used it last fall on groups of generic mobs while leveling 1-50 and it was OK, but not sure who has used it as a key part of a build for PvP. It always seemed like a fair number of skills had a more PvE oriented morph and a more PvP oriented one. If one of them goes stamina, either Magick PvP builds "lose" a skill or stamina PvP builds "get" the less useful one.

JDar · April 2015

tinythinker wrote: »

Zhoyzu wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

FMonk wrote: »

You can leave it unmorphed if you want a magicka gap closer. Not as strong as ambush used to be, but probably still better than lotus fan.

Leaving a skill unmorphed in order for it to be more effective than morphing it is kind of troubling.

lotus fan has always been bad. i dont think ive ever seen it used.

I used it last fall on groups of generic mobs while leveling 1-50 and it was OK, but not sure who has used it as a key part of a build for PvP. It always seemed like a fair number of skills had a more PvE oriented morph and a more PvP oriented one. If one of them goes stamina, either Magick PvP builds "lose" a skill or stamina PvP builds "get" the less useful one.

Lotus Fan is important to me, but I could just as easily used Shielded Assault, which I frequently do. I just have measly stamina or else I would do so more often.

Rune_Relic · April 2015

.

tinythinker · April 2015

JDar wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Zhoyzu wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

FMonk wrote: »

You can leave it unmorphed if you want a magicka gap closer. Not as strong as ambush used to be, but probably still better than lotus fan.

Leaving a skill unmorphed in order for it to be more effective than morphing it is kind of troubling.

lotus fan has always been bad. i dont think ive ever seen it used.

I used it last fall on groups of generic mobs while leveling 1-50 and it was OK, but not sure who has used it as a key part of a build for PvP. It always seemed like a fair number of skills had a more PvE oriented morph and a more PvP oriented one. If one of them goes stamina, either Magick PvP builds "lose" a skill or stamina PvP builds "get" the less useful one.

Lotus Fan is important to me, but I could just as easily used Shielded Assault, which I frequently do. I just have measly stamina or else I would do so more often.

Interesting. I played PvP for an hour or two with my NB last fall at level 10 or so, then finished getting to VR1/completing the main quest, and put it on the shelf. I have never experimented with NB builds for PvP, I just keep hearing that LF is useless in Cyrodiil. I always like the challenge of trying to find some fun way to make such skills useful or advantageous. I am curious about the situations/skill rotations in which you use LF.

Rune_Relic · April 2015

Dual wield...keeping everyone in pbaoe range as long as possible.

Sacadon · April 2015

The magicka based stun and follow-up boost was awesome for magicka NBs. If the AoE for the lotus fan/flower would lock onto the target like soul tether to ensure full use of all the damage, then it would be an improvement, but still just not what Ambush used to be. Yes there are other ways to do the same, but that's still not the same. I've adapted, but I miss my Ambush.

Lorkhan · April 2015

magika build should not morph ambush

olsborg · April 2015

Lotus fan is pretty bad yea, I tried it shortly while leveling my v1 nb. Its just plain bad.

Flawlless · April 2015

Keep the snare but make it so it has the same base damage as teleport strike/the initial ambush hit, problem solved.

Sythias · April 2015

Flawlless wrote: »

Keep the snare but make it so it has the same base damage as teleport strike/the initial ambush hit, problem solved.

Agreed, give Lotus Fan the base skill immobilize/stun and buff the aoe/initial damage a little

Edit: Hell, make it an AOE snare. There are so many options to make this skill better but right now it's just lackluster.

Varicite · April 2015

Sythias wrote: »

Flawlless wrote: »

Keep the snare but make it so it has the same base damage as teleport strike/the initial ambush hit, problem solved.

Agreed, give Lotus Fan the base skill immobilize/stun and buff the aoe/initial damage a little

Edit: Hell, make it an AOE snare. There are so many options to make this skill better but right now it's just lackluster.

It already is an AoE snare. <.<

But I like keeping the base immobilize / stun for Lotus Fan, that would be amazing.

CP5 · April 2015

What if lotus fan provided the magicka resist debuff to all targets for the duration of the dot?

AssaultLemming · April 2015

I've been using this skill in PvE farming recently as my opener, have to say it is far too weak. It's barely even noticeable as extra dps. It desperately needs something to make it more effective, the magic debuff is a good idea as that would provide a nice synergy with sap essence, or just flat out double the dot damage, but in its current state it is just so weak.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · April 2015

Have to say as a Stamina Nightblade I used Ambush over the other gap closers from day one some jumps on a rock of down one and you can path to them teleporting is far superior and even better now that it does damage with stamina builds.

That beinh said only four of my Nightblades are stamina. My healer, magic tank, magic assassin or my hybrid builds use it I just morph it to ambush it's what my stamina builds had to do with it the roles are just reversed.

Sythias · April 2015

Varicite wrote: »

Sythias wrote: »

Flawlless wrote: »

Keep the snare but make it so it has the same base damage as teleport strike/the initial ambush hit, problem solved.

Agreed, give Lotus Fan the base skill immobilize/stun and buff the aoe/initial damage a little

Edit: Hell, make it an AOE snare. There are so many options to make this skill better but right now it's just lackluster.

It already is an AoE snare. <.<

But I like keeping the base immobilize / stun for Lotus Fan, that would be amazing.

Ahhh yes. I meant immobilize.

MisterBigglesworth · April 2015

Lotus Fan originally did Magic Damage up front, followed by a Physical Damage DOT (bleed), so it never really played to any particular build's strengths.

I always figured Lotus Fan would be the morph that got changed scale off Stamina, since it was already half-way there even before 1.6 due to the bleed effect...
plus it's an AOE that snares (especially good for NB tanking)...
plus NBs already had Magic AOE which was superior anyway (Sap Essence).

So that's 3 reasons right there why Lotus Fan would've made more sense as the Stamina morph... but ZOS made the perplexing descision to do the exact opposite.

Draxys · April 2015

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Have to say as a Stamina Nightblade I used Ambush over the other gap closers from day one some jumps on a rock of down one and you can path to them teleporting is far superior and even better now that it does damage with stamina builds.

That beinh said only four of my Nightblades are stamina. My healer, magic tank, magic assassin or my hybrid builds use it I just morph it to ambush it's what my stamina builds had to do with it the roles are just reversed.

whoa whoa whoa... you have four+ NBs?

Varicite · April 2015

Draxys wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Have to say as a Stamina Nightblade I used Ambush over the other gap closers from day one some jumps on a rock of down one and you can path to them teleporting is far superior and even better now that it does damage with stamina builds.

That beinh said only four of my Nightblades are stamina. My healer, magic tank, magic assassin or my hybrid builds use it I just morph it to ambush it's what my stamina builds had to do with it the roles are just reversed.

whoa whoa whoa... you have four+ NBs?

I thought I was bad for having 3...

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · April 2015

I like the Shadow play style see all the roles you can play with one class I tested them all out in Beta Nightblades won by far.

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

Lotus Fan originally did Magic Damage up front, followed by a Physical Damage DOT (bleed), so it never really played to any particular build's strengths.

I always figured Lotus Fan would be the morph that got changed scale off Stamina, since it was already half-way there even before 1.6 due to the bleed effect...
plus it's an AOE that snares (especially good for NB tanking)...
plus NBs already had Magic AOE which was superior anyway (Sap Essence).

So that's 3 reasons right there why Lotus Fan would've made more sense as the Stamina morph... but ZOS made the perplexing descision to do the exact opposite.

That power is pure trash it should be replaced with something better not forced on a build my tank only use Lotus Fan to proc Siphoning Attacks it has very little other uses

Frawr · April 2015

It was a nice idea to allow class skills to use stamina, however, forcing us to use some skills 1 or the other like this system is a bit crap. It's too simplistic and (yet again) lacks choice.

better would be to allow us to choose to use magic or choose to use stam, for example, use magic if holding a staff and use stam if holding a melee weapon.

This would truly allow us to build different ways.

JDar · April 2015

If Lotus Fan gave Major Sorcery that mite b cool