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The need to be in a guild to sell through vendors should be removed.
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redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why are people so obsessed wtith gold in the game? You don't really need a ton of it. Now you only even have to buy a horse once and any character on your account can use it. That's a big expense gone there for alts. Only left is like crafting books. Depending on how you play that could be a one time expense too. You get plenty of weapons and armor through questing/drops on your leveling.
Crafting is super in this game sine you can level a lot of crafts just by deconstruction. With a method like this anyone can level up their craft. No grinding or time investment is really required.
I think the only thing I buy is occasional materials when I don't want to gather myself.
People want lots of gold for the same reason that players hunt any achievement in the game. They set themselves a goal and want to see it to the end. Why does someone want to lead the pvp leaderboards? or have the best trial score? It's pretty much the same thing. Different people have different goals.
3 -
Ketta✭✭✭pugyourself wrote: »pugyourself wrote: »pugyourself wrote: »Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »So you would rather see a system where every single non-rare item would be basically given to every single player for pennies and rare items would still be extremely expensive? And where crafting would be a complete waste of time because every single crafted item in the game would be available for pennies. You want to see everything basically handed out to everyone and still see rare items outragiously overpriced? Because that is what a global auction house with hundreds of thousands or millions of people all using the same AH would be.
Rubbish.
Utter rubbish.
I also, on and off as the mood takes me, play Wildstar, LOTRO, WOW, Rift, Neverwinter, SWTOR, STO.
All of them have some variation on an Auction House.
None of them have the problem you describe.
All The Best
I completely agree. The anti-AH brigade trots out a standard set of arguments that they parrot repeatedly, all of which are simple false rhetoric, as they are easily disproved by plenty of actual, real world examples. Add to that how disingenuous they are in presenting these false arguments, when their actual motivation is self-interest as they are literally making out like bandits by manipulating the current broken system. It's disgraceful.
Note here that I'm actually not necessarily for a global AH, just a reworking of the current robber-baron system so as to make it more fair to the average player.
A robber baron system implies it's not accessible to anyone. All you have to do is say, "May I please join your guild?" Or press "G" and choose "Create Guild". Why are these things so difficult for you to do?
The point that's being made has absolutely nothing to do with any difficulty in joining a guild (why is that so difficult for you to understand?). The point is that players shouldn't be forced to join a guild just to be able to sell items on a somewhat open market.
As me and others have pointed out, you do not currently have to join a guild to sell your stuff. I guess this thread was TLDR for you huh?
Did I stutter? Don't think so...I specifically said on the open market, meaning accessible by any and all players. Please refer to another of my above posts so that you might understand why people have very legitimate reasons for not wanting to waste time trying to sell in chat (read as: progress in MMOs).
Is your zone chat broken? That's as open market as it gets. I just tested mine and it's working.
An open market in an MMO means that anyone can see what you have for sale at any time. Selling in chat, while it has the potential to reach everyone in a zone, is extremely restricted (not to mention time consuming). You're only reaching those online at that time and those that are paying attention to chat.
Selling in chat is far from analogous than being able to sell on a broker or auction hall. Waving people off who feel joining a guild to have access to a highly necessary feature like this and telling them, 'oh just go sell in chat' isn't going to solve any problems. For one, it's already known you can sell in chat, and for another, few people want to do it for reasons already stated.
Anyway. Dead horse.1 -
Sylvyr✭✭✭✭✭pugyourself wrote: »pugyourself wrote: »Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »You would have to be either blind or have chat turned off to NOT be able to join any number of trading guilds that are CONSTANTLY advertising for recruitment in the low level zones.
But what if he doesn't want to be in a guild?
What then?
Yup, totally locked out of the trade system.
Any MMO that fails to meet the needs of solo players is an MMO that is failing to tap into the fastest growing demographic in MMO games - the casual solo player.
Precisely, thanks. Moreover, even if a casual player does join a trading guild there's a good chance he'll be kicked from it either through inactivity or because he doesn't play enough to be able to afford the cost of belonging to it.
However, as you say, it isn't just the casual player that is affected by this. Even a hardcore player must join a guild or be locked out of the trading system, which is crazy. No core part of any game should impose guild membership or other equivalent restriction on participation in that part of the game.
Did you not read my post? The guild i was talking about doesnt kick people for "not being able to pay" And would never ask players to pay in to stay. And if you cant log in, in 2 weeks for 1 second then I dont know what to tell you. You could also leave a note with the guild leader or on your profile in the guild saying youll be away longer than 2 weeks. And they wont kick you.
So what now?
If you dont want to join a guild then dont join it, I dont see what the big deal is why you cant join one.
I could as easily ask if you did not read my post
?
I wasn't talking about not wanting to join a guild, I was saying it shouldn't be required that you join a guild in order to be able to participate in a core aspect of the game. I feel the same way about being forced to do a group dungeon in FFXIV in order to unlock the auction system there. That's not because I don't want to group, it's because I don't think those sort of restrictions should be imposed as a pre-requisite to accessing a core part of the game.
As for your point about only one person taking up your guild offer, please don't assume that we all play on your server.
I don't think I should be forced to kill bosses in order to make them dead. But I am. So what do I do? This alienates the 50% of players who want bosses to die but don't want to use weapons or skills to make them dead. We need a central killing house so that my wishes and pipe dreams can make them die without me needing to kill them. Otherwise, it's not fair to me and the 50% of players who feel the same as I do.
Apples and oranges. Killing a mob to make them dead is a far different "hoop" than the issues being brought up by the posters in regards to the trade system.
I have no issue with mobs. My issue is with the current boss-killing system. I don't like to use weapons and skills to do this but I still want my bosses dead. Therefore, the current boss-killing system is unfair to me and the 50% of players who feel the same as me. Boss killing should not be limited to only people who wish to use weapons and skills.
Is a boss a mob?Badge: Wall-of-Text GRANDMASTER
PvP: Patch Vs. Player
ZoSence (n.):
1) What is reasonable or comprehensive using ZoS logic. "That makes ZoSense"
2) Making zero sense. "That makes ZoSense"0 -
The idea that because something worked in situation A, it will work in Situation B is a logical fallacy. It doesn't matter how, or if, it worked in another game. All that matters is if it's likely to work in ESO.Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »
SO!
IS!
WILDSTAR!
See I can use bold and caps too.
Wildstar moved to megaservers from discrete servers some time back.
The AH works just fine.
The economy didn't collapse.
Plus, when talking about Wildstar or WoW, LotRO, etc: no, their AH does not work. A few players can form an oligopoly over certain products, such as materials or rare items. That's the very problem ESO's divided auction system aims to address.
Edited by Earthwardzilvox_ESO on April 9, 2015 12:05AMBright light casts a long shadow2 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Alphashado wrote: »
I haven't played Wiildstar. If that game was on your list than I missed it. I have no idea how the AH works there. As I have said, the only game I have played with a Global AH is GW2. And I hated it with a passion as well as most of the other people that played it.
And guess what? The devs that designed this game hate it as well.
Just the fact that you would include all of those other games in a list trying to compare their AH to what we would have in ESO is very clear indication that don't understand the difference.
Most people don't. Yet they come here and yell and scream and complain and rant and rave about something they don't even understand.
Even worse are all the ridiculous accusations that everyone enjoying this system is some kind of evil money tycoon. It makes me sick.
Good day.
The AH is Wildstar is like the AH in WOW or LOTRO or SWTOR.
Wildstar started like WOW with multiple server in the EU and US and then moved to a single EU server and a single US server.
The economy did not collapse with that transition.
I've never accused anyone of being an evil money tycoon.
I just believe the current system is a significant impediment to many players, especially those not in a major trade guild.
I'd like to that change.
All The Best
Those memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.1 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Earthwardzilvox_ESO wrote: »The idea that because something worked in situation A, it will work in Situation B is a logical fallacy. It doesn't matter how, or if, it worked in another game. All that matters is if it's likely to work in ESO. And if you're talking about wildstar, no, their AH does not work. A few players can easily control and entire subsection of the economy, which is the very problem that ESO's divided auction system aims to address.
Is it not also a logically fallacy to claim that because an AH hasn't worked elsewhere that it couldn't work here: and that it exactly what much of the criticism of an AH system seems to be - including your own.
Oooops, looks like an own-goal there.
I played Wildstar until a few months ago, I encountered no problems with the AH leading to controlled sections of the economy.
The ESO system may address that, somewhat imaginary, problem; but in creating a solution to a problem that actually doesn't exist it creates further problems that AH systems don't have.
All The Best
Those memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.2 -
wraith808✭✭✭✭MercyKilling wrote: »pugyourself wrote: »
A robber baron system implies it's not accessible to anyone. All you have to do is say, "May I please join your guild?" Or press "G" and choose "Create Guild". Why are these things so difficult for you to do?
Because in order to have a guild bank, you need ten members. I only have 8 character slots.
In order to have a guild kiosk, you need to capture a PvP point and have at least 50 members. I refer to the aforementioned 8 character slots and also add in I don't do PvP. Haven't set foot in Cyrodiil since closed beta testing weekends, and the only reason I went to a PvP zone then was.....*gasp* testing.
Now to address the other part about joining someone else's guild.....
I refuse to play by someone else's rules. If there is a trade guild (or any guild, for that matter) out there that will let me join and not bug me about selling stuff or gathering stuff or contributing in any way, shape or form and just be a member to be able to browse and buy when I feel the need to..and perhaps take a long sabbatical from the game and not loose my membership...I'll consider it.
Not to forget the guild drama that I've seen over the decades (yeah, decades) of gaming....I'd rather not be subject to someone else's issues or drama....I've got enough of my own in my real life. I turn to games for an escape.
Requiring PvP and guild membership to be able to sell to anyone at all in your faction(and not spam zone with WTS crap) is rubbish and needs to go away. THIS is what is at the heart of the OP's post and the subject of the thread.
We, as players SHOULD be able to just post stuff we want to sell to an interface than anyone can use, regardless of playstyle and expect it to sell. Conversely, we as players should be able to go to one central place(per faction) to be able to browse and purchase ALL the wares set up for sale by any player. Is that so much to ask for?
Other than the fact that a couple of your suppositions are incorrect. Guild Kiosks have nothing to do with PvP- other than the ones in the Cyrodiil Keeps that no one really uses. You have to have 50 members to have a *store*. Once you have a store, you can have any guild kiosk in the non-Cyrodiil zones by bidding on one, and winning. Some of the locations cost a lot... but some cost almost nothing. I do think the 50 member limit is a bit steep, and should be reduced to 20. But it has nothing to do with PVP.
And the 8 character slots is irrelevant- you join per account, not per character.
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Ysne58✭✭✭✭✭Most of this is going right over my head. I seriously doubt this is going to have any effect on what ZOS does either.0 -
pugyourself✭✭✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »
I haven't played Wiildstar. If that game was on your list than I missed it. I have no idea how the AH works there. As I have said, the only game I have played with a Global AH is GW2. And I hated it with a passion as well as most of the other people that played it.
And guess what? The devs that designed this game hate it as well.
Just the fact that you would include all of those other games in a list trying to compare their AH to what we would have in ESO is very clear indication that don't understand the difference.
Most people don't. Yet they come here and yell and scream and complain and rant and rave about something they don't even understand.
Even worse are all the ridiculous accusations that everyone enjoying this system is some kind of evil money tycoon. It makes me sick.
Good day.
The AH is Wildstar is like the AH in WOW or LOTRO or SWTOR.
Wildstar started like WOW with multiple server in the EU and US and then moved to a single EU server and a single US server.
The economy did not collapse with that transition.
I've never accused anyone of being an evil money tycoon.
I just believe the current system is a significant impediment to many players, especially those not in a major trade guild.
I'd like to that change.
All The Best
I've seen two founders of Rawl-based mega-guilds that have no minimums and provide an ultra-fun atmosphere for players come into this thread and pretty much offer invites to those who have a misperception about the difficulty involved with selling through a guild.
How many of you have messaged them for an invite? I suggest you do. You won't regret it.
As far as difficulty goes, once you get an invite, you will have the option to accept or decline. Once accepted, you can list your items by going to any banker in any zone (excludes OR moneylenders) and clicking on "Guild Store". It's beyond easy and the two founders I've seen in here run honest, fun guilds that make their members a lot of coin.
I absolutely hated roast beef. Until I tried it.2 -
pugyourself✭✭✭✭pugyourself wrote: »pugyourself wrote: »Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »You would have to be either blind or have chat turned off to NOT be able to join any number of trading guilds that are CONSTANTLY advertising for recruitment in the low level zones.
But what if he doesn't want to be in a guild?
What then?
Yup, totally locked out of the trade system.
Any MMO that fails to meet the needs of solo players is an MMO that is failing to tap into the fastest growing demographic in MMO games - the casual solo player.
Precisely, thanks. Moreover, even if a casual player does join a trading guild there's a good chance he'll be kicked from it either through inactivity or because he doesn't play enough to be able to afford the cost of belonging to it.
However, as you say, it isn't just the casual player that is affected by this. Even a hardcore player must join a guild or be locked out of the trading system, which is crazy. No core part of any game should impose guild membership or other equivalent restriction on participation in that part of the game.
Did you not read my post? The guild i was talking about doesnt kick people for "not being able to pay" And would never ask players to pay in to stay. And if you cant log in, in 2 weeks for 1 second then I dont know what to tell you. You could also leave a note with the guild leader or on your profile in the guild saying youll be away longer than 2 weeks. And they wont kick you.
So what now?
If you dont want to join a guild then dont join it, I dont see what the big deal is why you cant join one.
I could as easily ask if you did not read my post ?
I wasn't talking about not wanting to join a guild, I was saying it shouldn't be required that you join a guild in order to be able to participate in a core aspect of the game. I feel the same way about being forced to do a group dungeon in FFXIV in order to unlock the auction system there. That's not because I don't want to group, it's because I don't think those sort of restrictions should be imposed as a pre-requisite to accessing a core part of the game.
As for your point about only one person taking up your guild offer, please don't assume that we all play on your server.
I don't think I should be forced to kill bosses in order to make them dead. But I am. So what do I do? This alienates the 50% of players who want bosses to die but don't want to use weapons or skills to make them dead. We need a central killing house so that my wishes and pipe dreams can make them die without me needing to kill them. Otherwise, it's not fair to me and the 50% of players who feel the same as I do.
Apples and oranges. Killing a mob to make them dead is a far different "hoop" than the issues being brought up by the posters in regards to the trade system.
I have no issue with mobs. My issue is with the current boss-killing system. I don't like to use weapons and skills to do this but I still want my bosses dead. Therefore, the current boss-killing system is unfair to me and the 50% of players who feel the same as me. Boss killing should not be limited to only people who wish to use weapons and skills.
Is a boss a mob?
No. But a mob is boss if it kills me for sure.0 -
BrassRazoo✭✭✭✭✭I don't even bother to look in Guild Stores anymore.
Just takes too long to find what you want.
Travelling around to all of them to look for a specific item that may or may not be there is too much of a drain.
I either do without or just get it myself.
The only answer is a Global Auction House or at the very least a Alliance Wide Auction House.
Many things are changing in this game, the Crown Store being one recent major change to the original philosophy.
Auction House should be the next.
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SteveCampsOut✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SteveCampsOut wrote: »
While I haven't seen one person running 5 trading guilds yet, I have seen one person in charge of 3, one in each faction. Also 1 person in charge of 2, so your 1 in charge of 5 scenario is not only possible, it's highly likely.
Yes, there was one person in charge of 3. How'd that go? Keyword: "was"
As far as I know, he still has control of two of the three....Edited by SteveCampsOut on April 9, 2015 12:21AM@ֆȶɛʋɛƈǟʍքֆօʊȶ⍟
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Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭pugyourself wrote: »I've seen two founders of Rawl-based mega-guilds that have no minimums and provide an ultra-fun atmosphere for players come into this thread and pretty much offer invites to those who have a misperception about the difficulty involved with selling through a guild.
How many of you have messaged them for an invite? I suggest you do. You won't regret it.
As far as difficulty goes, once you get an invite, you will have the option to accept or decline. Once accepted, you can list your items by going to any banker in any zone (excludes OR moneylenders) and clicking on "Guild Store". It's beyond easy and the two founders I've seen in here run honest, fun guilds that make their members a lot of coin.
I absolutely hated roast beef. Until I tried it.
You are still missing the point.
My guess is deliberately so.
Trade shouldn't require guild membership.
The player who offered invites was on the NA megaserver, I am not.
Its not about any perceived difficulty in using the system; its that the system is gated behind being in guild.
All The BestThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.3 -
Arato✭✭✭✭✭
✭SteveCampsOut wrote: »SteveCampsOut wrote: »
While I haven't seen one person running 5 trading guilds yet, I have seen one person in charge of 3, one in each faction. Also 1 person in charge of 2, so your 1 in charge of 5 scenario is not only possible, it's highly likely.
Yes, there was one person in charge of 3. How'd that go? Keyword: "was"
As far as I know, he still has control of two of the three....
Actually he took a break from playing the game and has left the guild in control of officers for the time being.
Those 3 guilds have never had any sort of compulsory rules for sales or contributions, though contributions are represented in respective ranks below officer (contribute more either through sales tax or through donations and you are recognized for it and can gain access to withdrawing ITEMS from the guild bank (not gold), seems fair to me), and they hold weekly raffles on a completely voluntary nature, and have regular "sales tips" mails out to the guild to help other people learn what hot items are selling well, have regular trivia contests (free) for prizes. There's not even any rules against joining other competing trade guilds. There's people from IBOB or MC that are also in ESE/RNR/DND.
They're not a mafia or a bunch of hateful people, they're good communities1 -
pugyourself✭✭✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »pugyourself wrote: »I've seen two founders of Rawl-based mega-guilds that have no minimums and provide an ultra-fun atmosphere for players come into this thread and pretty much offer invites to those who have a misperception about the difficulty involved with selling through a guild.
How many of you have messaged them for an invite? I suggest you do. You won't regret it.
As far as difficulty goes, once you get an invite, you will have the option to accept or decline. Once accepted, you can list your items by going to any banker in any zone (excludes OR moneylenders) and clicking on "Guild Store". It's beyond easy and the two founders I've seen in here run honest, fun guilds that make their members a lot of coin.
I absolutely hated roast beef. Until I tried it.
You are still missing the point.
My guess is deliberately so.
Trade shouldn't require guild membership.
The player who offered invites was on the NA megaserver, I am not.
Its not about any perceived difficulty in using the system; its that the system is gated behind being in guild.
All The Best
In order for that argument to hold weight, the "gate" (as you call it) must represent a material impediment to users. Joining a guild and selling through it is very easy and not a material impediment to selling your items.
The whole game is "gated" by the need for an account and is sequestered behind a required login each session. Should I be able to play without logging in? Doesn't that represent a global "gate"?1 -
pugyourself✭✭✭✭SteveCampsOut wrote: »SteveCampsOut wrote: »
While I haven't seen one person running 5 trading guilds yet, I have seen one person in charge of 3, one in each faction. Also 1 person in charge of 2, so your 1 in charge of 5 scenario is not only possible, it's highly likely.
Yes, there was one person in charge of 3. How'd that go? Keyword: "was"
As far as I know, he still has control of two of the three....
Actually he took a break from playing the game and has left the guild in control of officers for the time being.
Those 3 guilds have never had any sort of compulsory rules for sales or contributions, though contributions are represented in respective ranks below officer (contribute more either through sales tax or through donations and you are recognized for it and can gain access to withdrawing ITEMS from the guild bank (not gold), seems fair to me), and they hold weekly raffles on a completely voluntary nature, and have regular "sales tips" mails out to the guild to help other people learn what hot items are selling well, have regular trivia contests (free) for prizes. There's not even any rules against joining other competing trade guilds. There's people from IBOB or MC that are also in ESE/RNR/DND.
They're not a mafia or a bunch of hateful people, they're good communities
Some of those mentioned do have min requirements so they may not be the best option for someone who already has a negative perception of the system. I know that wasn't your intent...just putting it out there so they aren't held up as the norm.0 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SteveCampsOut wrote: »SteveCampsOut wrote: »
While I haven't seen one person running 5 trading guilds yet, I have seen one person in charge of 3, one in each faction. Also 1 person in charge of 2, so your 1 in charge of 5 scenario is not only possible, it's highly likely.
Yes, there was one person in charge of 3. How'd that go? Keyword: "was"
As far as I know, he still has control of two of the three....
Actually he took a break from playing the game and has left the guild in control of officers for the time being.
Those 3 guilds have never had any sort of compulsory rules for sales or contributions, though contributions are represented in respective ranks below officer (contribute more either through sales tax or through donations and you are recognized for it and can gain access to withdrawing ITEMS from the guild bank (not gold), seems fair to me), and they hold weekly raffles on a completely voluntary nature, and have regular "sales tips" mails out to the guild to help other people learn what hot items are selling well, have regular trivia contests (free) for prizes. There's not even any rules against joining other competing trade guilds. There's people from IBOB or MC that are also in ESE/RNR/DND.
They're not a mafia or a bunch of hateful people, they're good communities
My God. Guild leaders, officers, other subordinate ranks! This is a computer game and some of us want to play it as such. We want to play casually but still sell our stuff without having to join a gaming addict support group. We shouldn't have to join gangs run by obsessives to whom the game is a lifestyle, rather than a casual passtime. I say the trade system should be pried from the Cheetos-stained fingers of the hardcore nerds and given to the people! Viva la revolution!
My nord man... way to insult the community which you are part of. If you don't want to be part of THAT community... accept the fact that you can't post items for sale. There are plenty of NPC vendors that are more than happy to take your items off your hands for you. That way you don't have to commune with us dirty nerds.What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!4 -
Divad Zarn✭✭✭SteveCampsOut wrote: »SteveCampsOut wrote: »
While I haven't seen one person running 5 trading guilds yet, I have seen one person in charge of 3, one in each faction. Also 1 person in charge of 2, so your 1 in charge of 5 scenario is not only possible, it's highly likely.
Yes, there was one person in charge of 3. How'd that go? Keyword: "was"
As far as I know, he still has control of two of the three....
Actually he took a break from playing the game and has left the guild in control of officers for the time being.
Those 3 guilds have never had any sort of compulsory rules for sales or contributions, though contributions are represented in respective ranks below officer (contribute more either through sales tax or through donations and you are recognized for it and can gain access to withdrawing ITEMS from the guild bank (not gold), seems fair to me), and they hold weekly raffles on a completely voluntary nature, and have regular "sales tips" mails out to the guild to help other people learn what hot items are selling well, have regular trivia contests (free) for prizes. There's not even any rules against joining other competing trade guilds. There's people from IBOB or MC that are also in ESE/RNR/DND.
They're not a mafia or a bunch of hateful people, they're good communities
My God. Guild leaders, officers, other subordinate ranks! This is a computer game and some of us want to play it as such. We want to play casually but still sell our stuff without having to join a gaming addict support group. We shouldn't have to join gangs run by obsessives to whom the game is a lifestyle, rather than a casual passtime. I say the trade system should be pried from the Cheetos-stained fingers of the hardcore nerds and given to the people! Viva la revolution!
I see so pro players came with B2P
anyway, for those who ONLY trade and playing this game only for crafting/trading (cuz pve/pvp and everything else is boring), economy system works great. To do decent pve - you need good PvE guild (you will never make ANY trial with random group), to farm AP and have some fun in cyrodill - you need decent PvP guild (u will receive x1000% more effective from guild than from solo playing), and to become rich u need decent trading guild - if not you can still trade and struggle in zone chat. See? for everyone else, there are options you can choose, so i dont think complaining will bring you to something. 0 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »No one would put up with it if the forced you to be in a guild to do anything else, so why accept it with selling?
Imagine having to be in a guild before you could quest and the guild leader gets a cut of all your earnings.
Same thing goes for doing Dungeons or trials.
I shouldn't have to go through some 3rd party I don't even know and give him a cut of my earnings just to sell a item on a vendor.
This thread is just plain wrong. Compare very wrong things and coming with conclusion that have no base in facts.
Doing quests is like selling/buying economy? (Sell everyone can do to vendor so its not selling).
Trails, which is highly based on skill, gear, character, performance and personal loot style......is remotely equal to economy system?
Wrong....
No one is forced to do anything. In order to do trials, you need X level and Y "things". Effort vs reward.
ESO economy ecosystem is a huge success. Eve Online have a better one but only cause its hard to compare them.
The single reason why economy is a "skill" in game, gives the power to the players what to buy/sell and keeps the whole game interesting cause nothing is worthless. Blue motifs sold for 1k in the start and still do. You can get bargains and get lucky or not.
Nothing to do with the game. All player effort.
Sure, anyone who wants everything for doing nothing will hate ESO. Good!Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
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Genomic✭✭✭✭✭
My God. Guild leaders, officers, other subordinate ranks! This is a computer game and some of us want to play it as such. We want to play casually but still sell our stuff without having to join a gaming addict support group. We shouldn't have to join gangs run by obsessives to whom the game is a lifestyle, rather than a casual passtime. I say the trade system should be pried from the Cheetos-stained fingers of the hardcore nerds and given to the people! Viva la revolution!
Thanks for your meaningful contribution to the discussion.
Can you please e-mail me the times and days I may play and precise schedule of what I must do while in game? Clearly whatever you're doing is the only respectful and upstanding way to play the game and I desperately want to avoid being called an orange-fingered gaming nerd for the way I play an MMO vs. the way YOU do.
Way to completely miss the point I was making. To elaborate, my argument is in fact yours: that we should be able to play the game how we choose, without being dictated to by a subset of players. I'm not at all impinging on your right to get deep vein thrombosis, and you shouldn't impinge on casual player's rights to be part of the trade system by forcing them into guilds run by ardent fans.
Edited by Genomic on April 9, 2015 2:56AM0 -
Divad Zarn✭✭✭
My God. Guild leaders, officers, other subordinate ranks! This is a computer game and some of us want to play it as such. We want to play casually but still sell our stuff without having to join a gaming addict support group. We shouldn't have to join gangs run by obsessives to whom the game is a lifestyle, rather than a casual passtime. I say the trade system should be pried from the Cheetos-stained fingers of the hardcore nerds and given to the people! Viva la revolution!
Thanks for your meaningful contribution to the discussion.
Can you please e-mail me the times and days I may play and precise schedule of what I must do while in game? Clearly whatever you're doing is the only respectful and upstanding way to play the game and I desperately want to avoid being called an orange-fingered gaming nerd for the way I play an MMO vs. the way YOU do.
Way to completely miss the point I was making. To elaborate, my argument is in fact yours: that we should be able to play the game how we choose, without being dictated to by a subset of players. I'm not at all impinging on your right to get deep vein thrombosis, and you shouldn't impinge on casual player's rights to be part of the trade system by forcing them into guilds run by ardent fans.
So go and trade in zone chat, someone saying you to not do so? but NO, player like you want to get money 24/7 without doing their part of job, without much care and brain working, thats the problem. As @Cogo there will be always those who want to get everything easy without efforts, nothing strange.2 -
Arato✭✭✭✭✭
✭pugyourself wrote: »SteveCampsOut wrote: »SteveCampsOut wrote: »
While I haven't seen one person running 5 trading guilds yet, I have seen one person in charge of 3, one in each faction. Also 1 person in charge of 2, so your 1 in charge of 5 scenario is not only possible, it's highly likely.
Yes, there was one person in charge of 3. How'd that go? Keyword: "was"
As far as I know, he still has control of two of the three....
Actually he took a break from playing the game and has left the guild in control of officers for the time being.
Those 3 guilds have never had any sort of compulsory rules for sales or contributions, though contributions are represented in respective ranks below officer (contribute more either through sales tax or through donations and you are recognized for it and can gain access to withdrawing ITEMS from the guild bank (not gold), seems fair to me), and they hold weekly raffles on a completely voluntary nature, and have regular "sales tips" mails out to the guild to help other people learn what hot items are selling well, have regular trivia contests (free) for prizes. There's not even any rules against joining other competing trade guilds. There's people from IBOB or MC that are also in ESE/RNR/DND.
They're not a mafia or a bunch of hateful people, they're good communities
Some of those mentioned do have min requirements so they may not be the best option for someone who already has a negative perception of the system. I know that wasn't your intent...just putting it out there so they aren't held up as the norm.
I don't know about Merchant's Circle or IBOB, I just know that a few people are members in my guild are also members in those guilds. ESE/RNR/DND's only requirement that I know of is they have a I think a 7 day inactivity policy? Sorry if I'm not correct on the exact day, but that's due to a lot of people wanting to join these large scale trading guilds so they regularly purge inactives and invite new people. If someone's going on vacation or the like you can always get in contact with an admin and let them know you'll be away, and over Christmas break there was no inactive policy because of the large amount of people who would be traveling to see family and such.
But that's it, aside from that, voluntary raffles and auctions, trivia games for prizes, sales tips, lots of money to be made, and good people.
1 -
pugyourself✭✭✭✭pugyourself wrote: »SteveCampsOut wrote: »SteveCampsOut wrote: »
While I haven't seen one person running 5 trading guilds yet, I have seen one person in charge of 3, one in each faction. Also 1 person in charge of 2, so your 1 in charge of 5 scenario is not only possible, it's highly likely.
Yes, there was one person in charge of 3. How'd that go? Keyword: "was"
As far as I know, he still has control of two of the three....
Actually he took a break from playing the game and has left the guild in control of officers for the time being.
Those 3 guilds have never had any sort of compulsory rules for sales or contributions, though contributions are represented in respective ranks below officer (contribute more either through sales tax or through donations and you are recognized for it and can gain access to withdrawing ITEMS from the guild bank (not gold), seems fair to me), and they hold weekly raffles on a completely voluntary nature, and have regular "sales tips" mails out to the guild to help other people learn what hot items are selling well, have regular trivia contests (free) for prizes. There's not even any rules against joining other competing trade guilds. There's people from IBOB or MC that are also in ESE/RNR/DND.
They're not a mafia or a bunch of hateful people, they're good communities
Some of those mentioned do have min requirements so they may not be the best option for someone who already has a negative perception of the system. I know that wasn't your intent...just putting it out there so they aren't held up as the norm.
I don't know about Merchant's Circle or IBOB, I just know that a few people are members in my guild are also members in those guilds. ESE/RNR/DND's only requirement that I know of is they have a I think a 7 day inactivity policy? Sorry if I'm not correct on the exact day, but that's due to a lot of people wanting to join these large scale trading guilds so they regularly purge inactives and invite new people. If someone's going on vacation or the like you can always get in contact with an admin and let them know you'll be away, and over Christmas break there was no inactive policy because of the large amount of people who would be traveling to see family and such.
But that's it, aside from that, voluntary raffles and auctions, trivia games for prizes, sales tips, lots of money to be made, and good people.
I agree completely. Some have min sales prices (I believe 150g). I don't want to name names because it works for them and they may have changed that policy since the early days.0 -
Arato✭✭✭✭✭
✭pugyourself wrote: »pugyourself wrote: »SteveCampsOut wrote: »SteveCampsOut wrote: »
While I haven't seen one person running 5 trading guilds yet, I have seen one person in charge of 3, one in each faction. Also 1 person in charge of 2, so your 1 in charge of 5 scenario is not only possible, it's highly likely.
Yes, there was one person in charge of 3. How'd that go? Keyword: "was"
As far as I know, he still has control of two of the three....
Actually he took a break from playing the game and has left the guild in control of officers for the time being.
Those 3 guilds have never had any sort of compulsory rules for sales or contributions, though contributions are represented in respective ranks below officer (contribute more either through sales tax or through donations and you are recognized for it and can gain access to withdrawing ITEMS from the guild bank (not gold), seems fair to me), and they hold weekly raffles on a completely voluntary nature, and have regular "sales tips" mails out to the guild to help other people learn what hot items are selling well, have regular trivia contests (free) for prizes. There's not even any rules against joining other competing trade guilds. There's people from IBOB or MC that are also in ESE/RNR/DND.
They're not a mafia or a bunch of hateful people, they're good communities
Some of those mentioned do have min requirements so they may not be the best option for someone who already has a negative perception of the system. I know that wasn't your intent...just putting it out there so they aren't held up as the norm.
I don't know about Merchant's Circle or IBOB, I just know that a few people are members in my guild are also members in those guilds. ESE/RNR/DND's only requirement that I know of is they have a I think a 7 day inactivity policy? Sorry if I'm not correct on the exact day, but that's due to a lot of people wanting to join these large scale trading guilds so they regularly purge inactives and invite new people. If someone's going on vacation or the like you can always get in contact with an admin and let them know you'll be away, and over Christmas break there was no inactive policy because of the large amount of people who would be traveling to see family and such.
But that's it, aside from that, voluntary raffles and auctions, trivia games for prizes, sales tips, lots of money to be made, and good people.
I agree completely. Some have min sales prices (I believe 150g). I don't want to name names because it works for them and they may have changed that policy since the early days.
Eh I think that's not a hard rule but rather just an encouragement/suggestion. Anyway, it works out for a lot of people, and I find it a refreshing change from global auction houses1 -
SteveCampsOut✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SteveCampsOut wrote: »SteveCampsOut wrote: »
While I haven't seen one person running 5 trading guilds yet, I have seen one person in charge of 3, one in each faction. Also 1 person in charge of 2, so your 1 in charge of 5 scenario is not only possible, it's highly likely.
Yes, there was one person in charge of 3. How'd that go? Keyword: "was"
As far as I know, he still has control of two of the three....
Actually he took a break from playing the game and has left the guild in control of officers for the time being.
Those 3 guilds have never had any sort of compulsory rules for sales or contributions, though contributions are represented in respective ranks below officer (contribute more either through sales tax or through donations and you are recognized for it and can gain access to withdrawing ITEMS from the guild bank (not gold), seems fair to me), and they hold weekly raffles on a completely voluntary nature, and have regular "sales tips" mails out to the guild to help other people learn what hot items are selling well, have regular trivia contests (free) for prizes. There's not even any rules against joining other competing trade guilds. There's people from IBOB or MC that are also in ESE/RNR/DND.
They're not a mafia or a bunch of hateful people, they're good communities
I am not the least bit familiar with IBOB or MC, are we even talking about the same guild because it doesn't sound like it to me.
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Genomic✭✭✭✭✭Divad Zarn wrote: »
My God. Guild leaders, officers, other subordinate ranks! This is a computer game and some of us want to play it as such. We want to play casually but still sell our stuff without having to join a gaming addict support group. We shouldn't have to join gangs run by obsessives to whom the game is a lifestyle, rather than a casual passtime. I say the trade system should be pried from the Cheetos-stained fingers of the hardcore nerds and given to the people! Viva la revolution!
Thanks for your meaningful contribution to the discussion.
Can you please e-mail me the times and days I may play and precise schedule of what I must do while in game? Clearly whatever you're doing is the only respectful and upstanding way to play the game and I desperately want to avoid being called an orange-fingered gaming nerd for the way I play an MMO vs. the way YOU do.
Way to completely miss the point I was making. To elaborate, my argument is in fact yours: that we should be able to play the game how we choose, without being dictated to by a subset of players. I'm not at all impinging on your right to get deep vein thrombosis, and you shouldn't impinge on casual player's rights to be part of the trade system by forcing them into guilds run by ardent fans.
So go and trade in zone chat, someone saying you to not do so? but NO, player like you want to get money 24/7 without doing their part of job, without much care and brain working, thats the problem. As @Cogo there will be always those who want to get everything easy without efforts, nothing strange.
It's a game. I could just as easily say players like you don't want anyone to play unless they dedicate their lives and sacrifice their first born child to ESO. The point is, again, there are a diversity of play-styles. YOU are the one in the wrong here, because no-one is asking to limit the way you play the game, yet you are selfishly wanting to limit how others play.
1 -
pugyourself✭✭✭✭pugyourself wrote: »pugyourself wrote: »SteveCampsOut wrote: »SteveCampsOut wrote: »
While I haven't seen one person running 5 trading guilds yet, I have seen one person in charge of 3, one in each faction. Also 1 person in charge of 2, so your 1 in charge of 5 scenario is not only possible, it's highly likely.
Yes, there was one person in charge of 3. How'd that go? Keyword: "was"
As far as I know, he still has control of two of the three....
Actually he took a break from playing the game and has left the guild in control of officers for the time being.
Those 3 guilds have never had any sort of compulsory rules for sales or contributions, though contributions are represented in respective ranks below officer (contribute more either through sales tax or through donations and you are recognized for it and can gain access to withdrawing ITEMS from the guild bank (not gold), seems fair to me), and they hold weekly raffles on a completely voluntary nature, and have regular "sales tips" mails out to the guild to help other people learn what hot items are selling well, have regular trivia contests (free) for prizes. There's not even any rules against joining other competing trade guilds. There's people from IBOB or MC that are also in ESE/RNR/DND.
They're not a mafia or a bunch of hateful people, they're good communities
Some of those mentioned do have min requirements so they may not be the best option for someone who already has a negative perception of the system. I know that wasn't your intent...just putting it out there so they aren't held up as the norm.
I don't know about Merchant's Circle or IBOB, I just know that a few people are members in my guild are also members in those guilds. ESE/RNR/DND's only requirement that I know of is they have a I think a 7 day inactivity policy? Sorry if I'm not correct on the exact day, but that's due to a lot of people wanting to join these large scale trading guilds so they regularly purge inactives and invite new people. If someone's going on vacation or the like you can always get in contact with an admin and let them know you'll be away, and over Christmas break there was no inactive policy because of the large amount of people who would be traveling to see family and such.
But that's it, aside from that, voluntary raffles and auctions, trivia games for prizes, sales tips, lots of money to be made, and good people.
I agree completely. Some have min sales prices (I believe 150g). I don't want to name names because it works for them and they may have changed that policy since the early days.
Eh I think that's not a hard rule but rather just an encouragement/suggestion. Anyway, it works out for a lot of people, and I find it a refreshing change from global auction houses
I fully support the guild system and those are some great guilds that were mentioned. I just thought that OP might use the min sales price requirement to enforce his world view that he has to "play by another player's rules" in order to sell his goods. I didn't mean it as a criticism of those guilds at all. I just wanted to enforce the point to OP that he could have fun in a guild with very few "rules" about how he sells his goods. Alas, he did not want to hear anything I said anyway.0 -
Genomic✭✭✭✭✭I'm not asking for a global AH. Just that people can trade with other players without joining a guild (not street corner yelling trade, you KNOW that's not a better system, so don't be disingenuous enough to suggest it). The people who don't want to join your little swivel-eyed fan club shouldn't be forced to just to be able to trade.
1 -
pugyourself✭✭✭✭Divad Zarn wrote: »
My God. Guild leaders, officers, other subordinate ranks! This is a computer game and some of us want to play it as such. We want to play casually but still sell our stuff without having to join a gaming addict support group. We shouldn't have to join gangs run by obsessives to whom the game is a lifestyle, rather than a casual passtime. I say the trade system should be pried from the Cheetos-stained fingers of the hardcore nerds and given to the people! Viva la revolution!
Thanks for your meaningful contribution to the discussion.
Can you please e-mail me the times and days I may play and precise schedule of what I must do while in game? Clearly whatever you're doing is the only respectful and upstanding way to play the game and I desperately want to avoid being called an orange-fingered gaming nerd for the way I play an MMO vs. the way YOU do.
Way to completely miss the point I was making. To elaborate, my argument is in fact yours: that we should be able to play the game how we choose, without being dictated to by a subset of players. I'm not at all impinging on your right to get deep vein thrombosis, and you shouldn't impinge on casual player's rights to be part of the trade system by forcing them into guilds run by ardent fans.
So go and trade in zone chat, someone saying you to not do so? but NO, player like you want to get money 24/7 without doing their part of job, without much care and brain working, thats the problem. As @Cogo there will be always those who want to get everything easy without efforts, nothing strange.
It's a game. I could just as easily say players like you don't want anyone to play unless they dedicate their lives and sacrifice their first born child to ESO. The point is, again, there are a diversity of play-styles. YOU are the one in the wrong here, because no-one is asking to limit the way you play the game, yet you are selfishly wanting to limit how others play.
I've yet to hear a single valid argument about why a player can't simply join a guild or start one of their own. This thread has seen GM's come in and offer invites to high-volume guilds with no requirements or "dues". OP's position was that guild leaders embezzle money from the guild - a patently absurd blanket statement. I ask again - what is so hard about asking a guild leader to join his/her guild and listing your items for sale? Is that such an impediment that it requires destroying the local economies by implementing an auction house? There is no monopoly or oligopoly at work here. Most players can join most guilds at various times. Using add-ons like MM and AGS, you can price your goods competitively and make good coin.
There is no conspiracy.1
