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The need to be in a guild to sell through vendors should be removed.
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Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Elijah_Crow wrote: »I think the fact that a shift to a global auction house would cause the value of everything to come crashing down to basically nothing eludes people. There is not enough ways for gear to be removed from the economy vs what flows in.
There would be no value beyond selling everything you loot to the vendor as trash because nothing would be selling on the auction house in enough qty to raise the price above what it sells to a vendor.
The current system keeps these micro economies insulated from this happening.
Didn't happen in Wildstar.
They use megaservers and an AH.
All The BestThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.1 -
MercyKilling✭✭✭✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »
Rubbish.
Utter rubbish.
I also, on and off as the mood takes me, play Wildstar, LOTRO, WOW, Rift, Neverwinter, SWTOR, STO.
All of them have some variation on an Auction House.
None of them have the problem you describe.
All The Best
I can echo this. Well, except for playing Wildstar and WoW. You can add in Champions Online to that list for me, personally. In the past, I played City of Heroes, too..and the same things were being said about merging the villain side market with the hero side market.....in that it would ruin the economy.
Guess what. When it happened.....the economy stayed the same. Prices did not come crashing down, people's fortunes didn't evaporate....nothing happened except everyone in the game had access to the same stuff. This needs to happen here, and it needs to be that you don't have to be in a guild to hock your wares on a market interface.I am not spending a single penny on the game until changes are made to the game that I want to see.
1) Remove having to be in a guild to sell items to other players at a kiosk.
2) Cosmetic modding for armor and clothing.
3) Difficulty slider.
4) Fully customizable player housing that isn't tied to anything in the game other than having the correct resources and enough gold to build. Don't tie it to PvP, guild membership, or anything at all. Oh, make it instanced so as not to take up world map space, too. Zeni screwed this one up already.
Any /one/ of these things implemented would get me spending again, maybe even subbing.4 -
Genomic✭✭✭✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »So you would rather see a system where every single non-rare item would be basically given to every single player for pennies and rare items would still be extremely expensive? And where crafting would be a complete waste of time because every single crafted item in the game would be available for pennies. You want to see everything basically handed out to everyone and still see rare items outragiously overpriced? Because that is what a global auction house with hundreds of thousands or millions of people all using the same AH would be.
Rubbish.
Utter rubbish.
I also, on and off as the mood takes me, play Wildstar, LOTRO, WOW, Rift, Neverwinter, SWTOR, STO.
All of them have some variation on an Auction House.
None of them have the problem you describe.
All The Best
I completely agree. The anti-AH brigade trots out a standard set of arguments that they parrot repeatedly, all of which are simple false rhetoric, as they are easily disproved by plenty of actual, real world examples. Add to that how disingenuous they are in presenting these false arguments, when their actual motivation is self-interest as they are literally making out like bandits by manipulating the current broken system. It's disgraceful.
Note here that I'm actually not necessarily for a global AH, just a reworking of the current robber-baron system so as to make it more fair to the average player.
5 -
pugyourself✭✭✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »So you would rather see a system where every single non-rare item would be basically given to every single player for pennies and rare items would still be extremely expensive? And where crafting would be a complete waste of time because every single crafted item in the game would be available for pennies. You want to see everything basically handed out to everyone and still see rare items outragiously overpriced? Because that is what a global auction house with hundreds of thousands or millions of people all using the same AH would be.
Rubbish.
Utter rubbish.
I also, on and off as the mood takes me, play Wildstar, LOTRO, WOW, Rift, Neverwinter, SWTOR, STO.
All of them have some variation on an Auction House.
None of them have the problem you describe.
All The Best
I completely agree. The anti-AH brigade trots out a standard set of arguments that they parrot repeatedly, all of which are simple false rhetoric, as they are easily disproved by plenty of actual, real world examples. Add to that how disingenuous they are in presenting these false arguments, when their actual motivation is self-interest as they are literally making out like bandits by manipulating the current broken system. It's disgraceful.
Note here that I'm actually not necessarily for a global AH, just a reworking of the current robber-baron system so as to make it more fair to the average player.
A robber baron system implies it's not accessible to anyone. All you have to do is say, "May I please join your guild?" Or press "G" and choose "Create Guild". Why are these things so difficult for you to do?2 -
Victus✭✭✭I completely agree. The anti-AH brigade trots out a standard set of arguments that they parrot repeatedly...
The same could be said about the "pro-AH brigade". That's fine it works in other games.... however ESO is not those other games.
The system works fine.
Just because people don't like it, doesn't mean it needs to be changed.
This is a game, recreation, something you do for fun... nobody is "forcing" anyone into anything.
Leave it alone.
Throm the First - Redguard Dragon Knight - Daggerfall Covenant
vanquishguild.com1 -
Sylvyr✭✭✭✭✭pugyourself wrote: »Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »You would have to be either blind or have chat turned off to NOT be able to join any number of trading guilds that are CONSTANTLY advertising for recruitment in the low level zones.
But what if he doesn't want to be in a guild?
What then?
Yup, totally locked out of the trade system.
Any MMO that fails to meet the needs of solo players is an MMO that is failing to tap into the fastest growing demographic in MMO games - the casual solo player.
Precisely, thanks. Moreover, even if a casual player does join a trading guild there's a good chance he'll be kicked from it either through inactivity or because he doesn't play enough to be able to afford the cost of belonging to it.
However, as you say, it isn't just the casual player that is affected by this. Even a hardcore player must join a guild or be locked out of the trading system, which is crazy. No core part of any game should impose guild membership or other equivalent restriction on participation in that part of the game.
Did you not read my post? The guild i was talking about doesnt kick people for "not being able to pay" And would never ask players to pay in to stay. And if you cant log in, in 2 weeks for 1 second then I dont know what to tell you. You could also leave a note with the guild leader or on your profile in the guild saying youll be away longer than 2 weeks. And they wont kick you.
So what now?
If you dont want to join a guild then dont join it, I dont see what the big deal is why you cant join one.
I could as easily ask if you did not read my post
?
I wasn't talking about not wanting to join a guild, I was saying it shouldn't be required that you join a guild in order to be able to participate in a core aspect of the game. I feel the same way about being forced to do a group dungeon in FFXIV in order to unlock the auction system there. That's not because I don't want to group, it's because I don't think those sort of restrictions should be imposed as a pre-requisite to accessing a core part of the game.
As for your point about only one person taking up your guild offer, please don't assume that we all play on your server.
I don't think I should be forced to kill bosses in order to make them dead. But I am. So what do I do? This alienates the 50% of players who want bosses to die but don't want to use weapons or skills to make them dead. We need a central killing house so that my wishes and pipe dreams can make them die without me needing to kill them. Otherwise, it's not fair to me and the 50% of players who feel the same as I do.
Apples and oranges. Killing a mob to make them dead is a far different "hoop" than the issues being brought up by the posters in regards to the trade system.
Badge: Wall-of-Text GRANDMASTER
PvP: Patch Vs. Player
ZoSence (n.):
1) What is reasonable or comprehensive using ZoS logic. "That makes ZoSense"
2) Making zero sense. "That makes ZoSense"2 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »So you would rather see a system where every single non-rare item would be basically given to every single player for pennies and rare items would still be extremely expensive? And where crafting would be a complete waste of time because every single crafted item in the game would be available for pennies. You want to see everything basically handed out to everyone and still see rare items outragiously overpriced? Because that is what a global auction house with hundreds of thousands or millions of people all using the same AH would be.
Rubbish.
Utter rubbish.
I also, on and off as the mood takes me, play Wildstar, LOTRO, WOW, Rift, Neverwinter, SWTOR, STO.
All of them have some variation on an Auction House.
None of them have the problem you describe.
All The Best
Agreed. EQ2 also has its broker system and prices are maintained at reasonable levels, with the system accessible and worthwhile from the start unlike the present system here which is very high level oriented. Most of the kiosks aren't even accessible until high level and the ones in the low level zones don't have much in the way of low level items for sale.
EQ also has its bazaar, and last time I played it I was stunned how expensive everything was. Common items certainly aren't cheap there.
No-one is suggesting a single global auction house in ESO that would be used by "hundreds of thousands or millions of people". Separate servers would have separate auction houses, separate alliances would have separate auction houses. I'm not even sold on the idea of auction houses necessarily, I'd just like a trading system that is accessible to all and which caters for all levels and all play styles.1 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Any system that locks any significant portion of the playerbase out of something as basic and integral to an MMO as trading is very far from "working fine",
In fact it is so far from working fine as to not be fit for purpose.
All The Best
Those memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.2 -
pugyourself✭✭✭✭pugyourself wrote: »Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »You would have to be either blind or have chat turned off to NOT be able to join any number of trading guilds that are CONSTANTLY advertising for recruitment in the low level zones.
But what if he doesn't want to be in a guild?
What then?
Yup, totally locked out of the trade system.
Any MMO that fails to meet the needs of solo players is an MMO that is failing to tap into the fastest growing demographic in MMO games - the casual solo player.
Precisely, thanks. Moreover, even if a casual player does join a trading guild there's a good chance he'll be kicked from it either through inactivity or because he doesn't play enough to be able to afford the cost of belonging to it.
However, as you say, it isn't just the casual player that is affected by this. Even a hardcore player must join a guild or be locked out of the trading system, which is crazy. No core part of any game should impose guild membership or other equivalent restriction on participation in that part of the game.
Did you not read my post? The guild i was talking about doesnt kick people for "not being able to pay" And would never ask players to pay in to stay. And if you cant log in, in 2 weeks for 1 second then I dont know what to tell you. You could also leave a note with the guild leader or on your profile in the guild saying youll be away longer than 2 weeks. And they wont kick you.
So what now?
If you dont want to join a guild then dont join it, I dont see what the big deal is why you cant join one.
I could as easily ask if you did not read my post ?
I wasn't talking about not wanting to join a guild, I was saying it shouldn't be required that you join a guild in order to be able to participate in a core aspect of the game. I feel the same way about being forced to do a group dungeon in FFXIV in order to unlock the auction system there. That's not because I don't want to group, it's because I don't think those sort of restrictions should be imposed as a pre-requisite to accessing a core part of the game.
As for your point about only one person taking up your guild offer, please don't assume that we all play on your server.
I don't think I should be forced to kill bosses in order to make them dead. But I am. So what do I do? This alienates the 50% of players who want bosses to die but don't want to use weapons or skills to make them dead. We need a central killing house so that my wishes and pipe dreams can make them die without me needing to kill them. Otherwise, it's not fair to me and the 50% of players who feel the same as I do.
Apples and oranges. Killing a mob to make them dead is a far different "hoop" than the issues being brought up by the posters in regards to the trade system.
I have no issue with mobs. My issue is with the current boss-killing system. I don't like to use weapons and skills to do this but I still want my bosses dead. Therefore, the current boss-killing system is unfair to me and the 50% of players who feel the same as me. Boss killing should not be limited to only people who wish to use weapons and skills.1 -
Victus✭✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »
Any system that locks any significant portion of the playerbase out of something as basic and integral to an MMO as trading is very far from "working fine",
In fact it is so far from working fine as to not be fit for purpose.
All The Best
I repeat... "This is a game, recreation, something you do for fun... nobody is "forcing" anyone into anything."
The system is not "locking anyone out". As has been stated many times before. There have been guild officers on here offering membership to interested parties. Again, if you don't want to do that, you don't have to. There ARE other ways.Throm the First - Redguard Dragon Knight - Daggerfall Covenant
vanquishguild.com0 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »So you would rather see a system where every single non-rare item would be basically given to every single player for pennies and rare items would still be extremely expensive? And where crafting would be a complete waste of time because every single crafted item in the game would be available for pennies. You want to see everything basically handed out to everyone and still see rare items outragiously overpriced? Because that is what a global auction house with hundreds of thousands or millions of people all using the same AH would be.
Rubbish.
Utter rubbish.
I also, on and off as the mood takes me, play Wildstar, LOTRO, WOW, Rift, Neverwinter, SWTOR, STO.
All of them have some variation on an Auction House.
None of them have the problem you describe.
All The Best
All those games have independant servers and much smaller isolated economies because each auction house is limited to each individual server. It absolutely boggles the mind that you people keep using games like the ones you mentioned as an example of how an AH would be in ESO. ESO is a MEGA SERVER GAME. The auction house would be NOTHING LIKE those games you mentioned. NOT EVEN REMOTELY SIMILAR. You would have HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OR EVEN MILLIONS of people all using the same auction house. Those games you mentioned have 20-30k per server AT THE MOST.
Please know your "facts" before you use rubbish to accuse someone else of using rubbish. Learn what the term GLOBAL auction house means. I have only seen one game that uses it and it's GW2. Some will say they like GW2 auction house, but most people HATED it.
Just take WoW as an example. There are roughly 200k CHARACTERS on each wow server as an average. Now split that in half because of horde/alliance factions. Now you have 100k total CHARACTERS per server using the same auction house. Now consider that most people playing on that server have AT LEAST 5 characters, that gives you a total of roughly 20k accounts per server. And that is assuming every account being tracked is still active. It's safe to say that at least 30% of them are old, dusty, and inactive. So that number is probably closer to 12k active accounts using the same AH.
That is not even in the ballpark of what an ESO AH (global) would be. Every single person playing the game would be using the same NA or EU auction house.
And as a side note, I have played every game you mentioned. I would LOVE to see an auction house similar to those games, but it's NOT POSSIBLE in ESO.
Edited by Alphashado on April 8, 2015 10:41PM0 -
Thymos✭✭✭✭✭Isn't it also possible to buy in-game money with real cash in Guild Wars 2? That seems like it could cause a disruption of the in-game economy.Edited by Thymos on April 8, 2015 10:24PMThe Older Gamers Recruitment Thread
Always accepting new members for NA and EU server. PvP PvE RP all welcome. Must be 25+ yo to join.
http://www.theoldergamers.com/0 -
Ketta✭✭✭pugyourself wrote: »Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »So you would rather see a system where every single non-rare item would be basically given to every single player for pennies and rare items would still be extremely expensive? And where crafting would be a complete waste of time because every single crafted item in the game would be available for pennies. You want to see everything basically handed out to everyone and still see rare items outragiously overpriced? Because that is what a global auction house with hundreds of thousands or millions of people all using the same AH would be.
Rubbish.
Utter rubbish.
I also, on and off as the mood takes me, play Wildstar, LOTRO, WOW, Rift, Neverwinter, SWTOR, STO.
All of them have some variation on an Auction House.
None of them have the problem you describe.
All The Best
I completely agree. The anti-AH brigade trots out a standard set of arguments that they parrot repeatedly, all of which are simple false rhetoric, as they are easily disproved by plenty of actual, real world examples. Add to that how disingenuous they are in presenting these false arguments, when their actual motivation is self-interest as they are literally making out like bandits by manipulating the current broken system. It's disgraceful.
Note here that I'm actually not necessarily for a global AH, just a reworking of the current robber-baron system so as to make it more fair to the average player.
A robber baron system implies it's not accessible to anyone. All you have to do is say, "May I please join your guild?" Or press "G" and choose "Create Guild". Why are these things so difficult for you to do?
The point that's being made has absolutely nothing to do with any difficulty in joining a guild (why is that so difficult for you to understand?). The point is that players shouldn't be forced to join a guild just to be able to sell items on a somewhat open market.1 -
pugyourself✭✭✭✭pugyourself wrote: »Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »So you would rather see a system where every single non-rare item would be basically given to every single player for pennies and rare items would still be extremely expensive? And where crafting would be a complete waste of time because every single crafted item in the game would be available for pennies. You want to see everything basically handed out to everyone and still see rare items outragiously overpriced? Because that is what a global auction house with hundreds of thousands or millions of people all using the same AH would be.
Rubbish.
Utter rubbish.
I also, on and off as the mood takes me, play Wildstar, LOTRO, WOW, Rift, Neverwinter, SWTOR, STO.
All of them have some variation on an Auction House.
None of them have the problem you describe.
All The Best
I completely agree. The anti-AH brigade trots out a standard set of arguments that they parrot repeatedly, all of which are simple false rhetoric, as they are easily disproved by plenty of actual, real world examples. Add to that how disingenuous they are in presenting these false arguments, when their actual motivation is self-interest as they are literally making out like bandits by manipulating the current broken system. It's disgraceful.
Note here that I'm actually not necessarily for a global AH, just a reworking of the current robber-baron system so as to make it more fair to the average player.
A robber baron system implies it's not accessible to anyone. All you have to do is say, "May I please join your guild?" Or press "G" and choose "Create Guild". Why are these things so difficult for you to do?
The point that's being made has absolutely nothing to do with any difficulty in joining a guild (why is that so difficult for you to understand?). The point is that players shouldn't be forced to join a guild just to be able to sell items on a somewhat open market.
As me and others have pointed out, you do not currently have to join a guild to sell your stuff. I guess this thread was TLDR for you huh?3 -
Lordwolfie✭✭I find this system mostly a success story. The economy feels stable and many people tell me every week how well it is working for them. I run a large trading guild and we have built over time and I feel our member base has worked for and continues to earn the privilege of one of the 'better locations' in the game. If someone just started a guild and is complaining that they can't bid in Rawl'kha, then that's like opening a store in a strip mall and getting upset that they aren't automatically able to have the giant premium mall location. It's irrational to think that you'll have instant finances/backing to compete there and it's a slow, time-intensive, and mostly thankless process to build a community to great success in ANY aspect of the game. The economics mimic that of the real world and I feel it is healthy, but I do find the blind bid system and high competition to be very stressful at times. Honest good merchant guild leaders will build trust and gain the guild wealth to bid on better and better locations as time passes.
Being a high volume store with comparatively high costs, I need a guild of active participants, so yes I absolutely have in place some minimal participation requirements (presently 3k/wk per person in either store transactions or raffle entries to be exact) to ensure that people are there to be part of the trading community / supportive of our primary objective. I only have 500 guild spaces to offer and with high weekly expenses (recently in excess of 3 mil/wk), I would be a fool to let people ghost on our roster when there are others that will use our trading location to its potential. We keep a fun atmosphere and much like Hiyde was mentioning, we additionally run many not-for-profit events that are a ton of fun and give great prizes. Many of our successful traders work hard to educate others on how to enjoy the game economics. Remember that for some part of the game's member base, it *is* their way of enjoying the game just as some players enjoy PvP and others Trials and such. I understand that every guild is different and this might not be your experience, but the positive feedback I receive FAR outweighs the criticism.
For the taxes, they generally pay roughly 1/3 what it takes to keep our high volume kiosk in a the MOST competitive city. Supplementing through raffles and other means are necessary to make up the remainder (and a HUGE time investment for GMs). It's so critical for me to note that MOST TRADING HUBS DON'T REQUIRE THIS. So in contrast I'll also state that I run a second guild that I started recently in another area where demand is not as high and that guild easily pays for itself between taxes and member donations using no gold from my main guild AND WITHOUT having any formalized requirements. This also supports what I see with many new guilds that have taken spots in great locations within cities. This barrier to entry that a 'new guild can't be successful' that keeps being thrown around in this thread just doesn't reflect what I have experienced and what I see week after week.
For the point of members being shut out of prime trading guilds or denied access based on trying to do the numbers of the population, any trade guild GM can speak to the availability of entry. I am constantly refreshing our roster to have 500 active participants in both guilds and thus am constantly recruiting. I believe that anyone that wants a quality selling location can EASILY get one or more in-game by watching zone chat as I see many large guilds with great trading locations recruiting constantly.
Lastly, as for not having anything in common with these other 499 members of a trading guild... you instantly do and for the reason you joined. You want to sell stuff and make money. You can do price checks on items you don't have data on, ask questions, etc. You might even find people that you like there. I know that I have built many great friendships that I'm sure will last long past the duration of ESO.
The system isn't perfect, but I and many others find it workable and have a great amount of fun regardless.
This^ this so much. Most honest and truthful opinion on here that I have read. This game has a unique trade system and I absolutely love it. This is coming from some one who has played Eve Online earning 2-3bil isk a day cornering markets as well as doing it on WoW.
ESO creates a new trading system that frankly is amazing in my eyes. Its more fun and fits in with the game much more in my opinion. I was in a trading guild the first day on here and made 10k to buy my horse in about a day maybe 2. That was 3 weeks ago now I am sitting in some of if not the best trading guilds in the game making good money and lots of wonderful friends. The upkeep they ask for is pennies compared to how much you make and the friendships you make. I absolutely love this game so far and the trading system is fun to me. Once you learn how to use it and find some nice guilds or even make your own. And you don't even need a guild to sell things I sell in chat allll the time. There are many ways to make money in this game with out needing a guild.Edited by Lordwolfie on April 8, 2015 11:47PM4 -
MercyKilling✭✭✭✭✭pugyourself wrote: »
A robber baron system implies it's not accessible to anyone. All you have to do is say, "May I please join your guild?" Or press "G" and choose "Create Guild". Why are these things so difficult for you to do?
Because in order to have a guild bank, you need ten members. I only have 8 character slots.
In order to have a guild kiosk, you need to capture a PvP point and have at least 50 members. I refer to the aforementioned 8 character slots and also add in I don't do PvP. Haven't set foot in Cyrodiil since closed beta testing weekends, and the only reason I went to a PvP zone then was.....*gasp* testing.
Now to address the other part about joining someone else's guild.....
I refuse to play by someone else's rules. If there is a trade guild (or any guild, for that matter) out there that will let me join and not bug me about selling stuff or gathering stuff or contributing in any way, shape or form and just be a member to be able to browse and buy when I feel the need to..and perhaps take a long sabbatical from the game and not loose my membership...I'll consider it.
Not to forget the guild drama that I've seen over the decades (yeah, decades) of gaming....I'd rather not be subject to someone else's issues or drama....I've got enough of my own in my real life. I turn to games for an escape.
Requiring PvP and guild membership to be able to sell to anyone at all in your faction(and not spam zone with WTS crap) is rubbish and needs to go away. THIS is what is at the heart of the OP's post and the subject of the thread.
We, as players SHOULD be able to just post stuff we want to sell to an interface than anyone can use, regardless of playstyle and expect it to sell. Conversely, we as players should be able to go to one central place(per faction) to be able to browse and purchase ALL the wares set up for sale by any player. Is that so much to ask for?I am not spending a single penny on the game until changes are made to the game that I want to see.
1) Remove having to be in a guild to sell items to other players at a kiosk.
2) Cosmetic modding for armor and clothing.
3) Difficulty slider.
4) Fully customizable player housing that isn't tied to anything in the game other than having the correct resources and enough gold to build. Don't tie it to PvP, guild membership, or anything at all. Oh, make it instanced so as not to take up world map space, too. Zeni screwed this one up already.
Any /one/ of these things implemented would get me spending again, maybe even subbing.1 -
Ketta✭✭✭I completely agree. The anti-AH brigade trots out a standard set of arguments that they parrot repeatedly...
The same could be said about the "pro-AH brigade". That's fine it works in other games.... however ESO is not those other games.
The system works fine.
Just because people don't like it, doesn't mean it needs to be changed.
This is a game, recreation, something you do for fun... nobody is "forcing" anyone into anything.
Leave it alone.
No, the system does not work fine. It works great for some but is an incredible and unnecessary hindrance for others.
For the very REASON that people don't like it, and quite a significant chunk of the game's population doesn't like it, means something needs to change. No, I don't have hard numbers on how many don't like it, but just looking at this thread alone should give you a pretty fair idea that the population is split somewhat down the middle. I also don't have hard numbers on how many people are frustrated and stop playing because of the difficulties in offloading goods to fellow players in a slightly more convenient way that having to /chat. MMOs have come a long way since EQ's EC tunnel market, and players as a whole resist going backward.
You're right, this game is a form of recreation. Part of the fun for a vast majority is making and looting items that they can sell. However, with ESO's highly limited storage and inventory combined with the current manner of a player market, it's frustrating when you can't offload overflow with even a minor profit UNLESS you join a guild.
And hell no, it's not going to be left alone.
For the record, I strongly support guilds for their many benefits to social aspects in the game. What I resist is the fact that you MUST be part of a guild to sell conveniently on an open market. This is an integral part of every MMO, and to deny that to players unless they join is a bit ridiculous. Yes, there are other ways to sell your goods (see the EC tunnel comment above), but this takes time away from typical gameplay...again, MMOs have grown past this necessity.
Perhaps they should consider using the carrot rather than the stick....selling on the open market could have some hefty commission fees which could be alleviated significantly by being in a guild.0 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Alphashado wrote: »All those games have independant servers and much smaller isolated economies because each auction house is limited to each individual server. It absolutely boggles the mind that you people keep using games like the ones you mentioned as an example of how an AH would be in ESO. ESO is a MEGA SERVER GAME.
SO!
IS!
WILDSTAR!
See I can use bold and caps too.
Wildstar moved to megaservers from discrete servers some time back.
The AH works just fine.
The economy didn't collapse.
So, now your one and only reason for not having an AH in ESO has been shown to be false you'll start supporting the calls for an AH?
All The BestThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.2 -
Ketta✭✭✭pugyourself wrote: »pugyourself wrote: »Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »So you would rather see a system where every single non-rare item would be basically given to every single player for pennies and rare items would still be extremely expensive? And where crafting would be a complete waste of time because every single crafted item in the game would be available for pennies. You want to see everything basically handed out to everyone and still see rare items outragiously overpriced? Because that is what a global auction house with hundreds of thousands or millions of people all using the same AH would be.
Rubbish.
Utter rubbish.
I also, on and off as the mood takes me, play Wildstar, LOTRO, WOW, Rift, Neverwinter, SWTOR, STO.
All of them have some variation on an Auction House.
None of them have the problem you describe.
All The Best
I completely agree. The anti-AH brigade trots out a standard set of arguments that they parrot repeatedly, all of which are simple false rhetoric, as they are easily disproved by plenty of actual, real world examples. Add to that how disingenuous they are in presenting these false arguments, when their actual motivation is self-interest as they are literally making out like bandits by manipulating the current broken system. It's disgraceful.
Note here that I'm actually not necessarily for a global AH, just a reworking of the current robber-baron system so as to make it more fair to the average player.
A robber baron system implies it's not accessible to anyone. All you have to do is say, "May I please join your guild?" Or press "G" and choose "Create Guild". Why are these things so difficult for you to do?
The point that's being made has absolutely nothing to do with any difficulty in joining a guild (why is that so difficult for you to understand?). The point is that players shouldn't be forced to join a guild just to be able to sell items on a somewhat open market.
As me and others have pointed out, you do not currently have to join a guild to sell your stuff. I guess this thread was TLDR for you huh?
Did I stutter? Don't think so...I specifically said on the open market, meaning accessible by any and all players. Please refer to another of my above posts so that you might understand why people have very legitimate reasons for not wanting to waste time trying to sell in chat (read as: progress in MMOs).1 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MercyKilling wrote: »
Because in order to have a guild bank, you need ten members. I only have 8 character slots.
In order to have a guild kiosk, you need to capture a PvP point and have at least 50 members. I refer to the aforementioned 8 character slots and also add in I don't do PvP. Haven't set foot in Cyrodiil since closed beta testing weekends, and the only reason I went to a PvP zone then was.....*gasp* testing.
Now to address the other part about joining someone else's guild.....
I refuse to play by someone else's rules. If there is a trade guild (or any guild, for that matter) out there that will let me join and not bug me about selling stuff or gathering stuff or contributing in any way, shape or form and just be a member to be able to browse and buy when I feel the need to..and perhaps take a long sabbatical from the game and not loose my membership...I'll consider it.
Not to forget the guild drama that I've seen over the decades (yeah, decades) of gaming....I'd rather not be subject to someone else's issues or drama....I've got enough of my own in my real life. I turn to games for an escape.
Requiring PvP and guild membership to be able to sell to anyone at all in your faction(and not spam zone with WTS crap) is rubbish and needs to go away. THIS is what is at the heart of the OP's post and the subject of the thread.
We, as players SHOULD be able to just post stuff we want to sell to an interface than anyone can use, regardless of playstyle and expect it to sell. Conversely, we as players should be able to go to one central place(per faction) to be able to browse and purchase ALL the wares set up for sale by any player. Is that so much to ask for?
Nice to see someone read enough of the thread to understand it properly.
All The Best
Those memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.1 -
Thymos✭✭✭✭✭
No, the system does not work fine. It works great for some but is an incredible and unnecessary hindrance for others.
For the very REASON that people don't like it, and quite a significant chunk of the game's population doesn't like it, means something needs to change. No, I don't have hard numbers on how many don't like it, but just looking at this thread alone should give you a pretty fair idea that the population is split somewhat down the middle. I also don't have hard numbers on how many people are frustrated and stop playing because of the difficulties in offloading goods to fellow players in a slightly more convenient way that having to /chat. MMOs have come a long way since EQ's EC tunnel market, and players as a whole resist going backward.
You're right, this game is a form of recreation. Part of the fun for a vast majority is making and looting items that they can sell. However, with ESO's highly limited storage and inventory combined with the current manner of a player market, it's frustrating when you can't offload overflow with even a minor profit UNLESS you join a guild.
And hell no, it's not going to be left alone.
For the record, I strongly support guilds for their many benefits to social aspects in the game. What I resist is the fact that you MUST be part of a guild to sell conveniently on an open market. This is an integral part of every MMO, and to deny that to players unless they join is a bit ridiculous. Yes, there are other ways to sell your goods (see the EC tunnel comment above), but this takes time away from typical gameplay...again, MMOs have grown past this necessity.
Perhaps they should consider using the carrot rather than the stick....selling on the open market could have some hefty commission fees which could be alleviated significantly by being in a guild.
At least you admit there are no hard numbers, so I can just completely dismiss that part of the argument.
Always remember that you can still participate in an open market via zone chat. No one is preventing you from doing that.The Older Gamers Recruitment Thread
Always accepting new members for NA and EU server. PvP PvE RP all welcome. Must be 25+ yo to join.
http://www.theoldergamers.com/1 -
pugyourself✭✭✭✭pugyourself wrote: »pugyourself wrote: »Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »So you would rather see a system where every single non-rare item would be basically given to every single player for pennies and rare items would still be extremely expensive? And where crafting would be a complete waste of time because every single crafted item in the game would be available for pennies. You want to see everything basically handed out to everyone and still see rare items outragiously overpriced? Because that is what a global auction house with hundreds of thousands or millions of people all using the same AH would be.
Rubbish.
Utter rubbish.
I also, on and off as the mood takes me, play Wildstar, LOTRO, WOW, Rift, Neverwinter, SWTOR, STO.
All of them have some variation on an Auction House.
None of them have the problem you describe.
All The Best
I completely agree. The anti-AH brigade trots out a standard set of arguments that they parrot repeatedly, all of which are simple false rhetoric, as they are easily disproved by plenty of actual, real world examples. Add to that how disingenuous they are in presenting these false arguments, when their actual motivation is self-interest as they are literally making out like bandits by manipulating the current broken system. It's disgraceful.
Note here that I'm actually not necessarily for a global AH, just a reworking of the current robber-baron system so as to make it more fair to the average player.
A robber baron system implies it's not accessible to anyone. All you have to do is say, "May I please join your guild?" Or press "G" and choose "Create Guild". Why are these things so difficult for you to do?
The point that's being made has absolutely nothing to do with any difficulty in joining a guild (why is that so difficult for you to understand?). The point is that players shouldn't be forced to join a guild just to be able to sell items on a somewhat open market.
As me and others have pointed out, you do not currently have to join a guild to sell your stuff. I guess this thread was TLDR for you huh?
Did I stutter? Don't think so...I specifically said on the open market, meaning accessible by any and all players. Please refer to another of my above posts so that you might understand why people have very legitimate reasons for not wanting to waste time trying to sell in chat (read as: progress in MMOs).
Is your zone chat broken? That's as open market as it gets. I just tested mine and it's working.2 -
Thymos✭✭✭✭✭Legitimate reasons. just like legitimate reasons why not to join a guild. Just because they have reasons, doesn't mean something doesn't exist, right?
Oh well... I'm going to duck out of this thread now, because it's just becoming the same thing being said back and forth.
Shouldn't have to, should have to. Give us AH, don't give us AH. This game does it, this game doesn't.The Older Gamers Recruitment Thread
Always accepting new members for NA and EU server. PvP PvE RP all welcome. Must be 25+ yo to join.
http://www.theoldergamers.com/1 -
King Bozo✭✭✭Why not have a few locations were you can talk with a npc and look whats for sale in all guild traders? No one would have to travel everywhere for certain items that some of the guilds do not have in stock.1 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »All those games have independant servers and much smaller isolated economies because each auction house is limited to each individual server. It absolutely boggles the mind that you people keep using games like the ones you mentioned as an example of how an AH would be in ESO. ESO is a MEGA SERVER GAME.
SO!
IS!
WILDSTAR!
See I can use bold and caps too.
Wildstar moved to megaservers from discrete servers some time back.
The AH works just fine.
The economy didn't collapse.
So, now your one and only reason for not having an AH in ESO has been shown to be false you'll start supporting the calls for an AH?
All The Best
I haven't played Wiildstar. If that game was on your list than I missed it. I have no idea how the AH works there. As I have said, the only game I have played with a Global AH is GW2. And I hated it with a passion as well as most of the other people that played it.
And guess what? The devs that designed this game hate it as well.
Just the fact that you would include all of those other games in a list trying to compare their AH to what we would have in ESO is very clear indication that don't understand the difference.
Most people don't. Yet they come here and yell and scream and complain and rant and rave about something they don't even understand.
Even worse are all the ridiculous accusations that everyone enjoying this system is some kind of evil money tycoon. It makes me sick.
Good day.
Edited by Alphashado on April 8, 2015 11:19PM4 -
wolfydog✭✭✭Why are people so obsessed wtith gold in the game? You don't really need a ton of it. Now you only even have to buy a horse once and any character on your account can use it. That's a big expense gone there for alts. Only left is like crafting books. Depending on how you play that could be a one time expense too. You get plenty of weapons and armor through questing/drops on your leveling.
Crafting is super in this game sine you can level a lot of crafts just by deconstruction. With a method like this anyone can level up their craft. No grinding or time investment is really required.
I think the only thing I buy is occasional materials when I don't want to gather myself.0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you're in AD on the NA server please head to Vulken Guard today 7pm -10pm EST for the Traders Market Tues - Sunday's-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5011 -
Ysne58✭✭✭✭✭I found a Mazte recipe there that wasn't too expensive. I'm a recently joined member of that guild.0 -
liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »I would be more inclined by the idea of the gold went into a money sink and not the guild leaders pocket.
Eeeengt, not how that actually works. The reason a cut of the earnings goes back to the guild is so that guilds can actually afford vendors. If you want to sell offline, you must contribute to the gulid vendor fund. Otherwise, buzz off, stop mooching off of other guild members.
Edited by Earthwardzilvox_ESO on April 9, 2015 12:03AMBright light casts a long shadow2