Is DC at a racial disadvantage?

filmoretub17_ESO · April 2015

For the PVP of this game DC has always been behind and even with superior numbers they tend to lose maps. I was wondering if this was a racial problem because looking at their 3 races hey don't seem to have much going for them. EP has Dark Elves who get bonuses to fire damage and take less fire damage. Nord's who take 7% less damage from all sources. AD has Bosner and Khaiit which both have huge bonuses to their Nightblade class. They also have the Altmer who also has damage bonuses. DC only has the Orc who gets a bonus to charging attacks. I think its possible that the bonus damage or damage reduction that EP and AD have are giving them the advantage over DC that is causing them to lose all the time. It is something to be discussed because you can't just say they lose all the time because they don't have any good guilds.

Agrippa_Invisus · April 2015

People are restricted by racial choice to certain alliances?

I've never experienced such a thing!

tinythinker · April 2015

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

For the PVP of this game DC has always been behind and even with superior numbers they tend to lose maps. I was wondering if this was a racial problem because looking at their 3 races hey don't seem to have much going for them. EP has Dark Elves who get bonuses to fire damage and take less fire damage. Nord's who take 7% less damage from all sources. AD has Bosner and Khaiit which both have huge bonuses to their Nightblade class. They also have the Altmer who also has damage bonuses. DC only has the Orc who gets a bonus to charging attacks. I think its possible that the bonus damage or damage reduction that EP and AD have are giving them the advantage over DC that is causing them to lose all the time. It is something to be discussed because you can't just say they lose all the time because they don't have any good guilds.

Bretons do pretty well with magicka-heavy builds.

And they put the "play any race in any alliance" option for sale in the Crown Store, unless that was taken out recently.

Turelus · April 2015

If the forums is anything to go by then no, they don't have Argonians.

ToRelax · April 2015

Altmer, Dunmer and Breton are all good for magicka builds.
Bosmer, Redguard and Imperial are good for stamina.
Orc, Khajiit and Nord passives aren't really good now, but not to far behind, all three favoring stamina over magicka.
Argonian racials are utter garbage in 1.6.

So no, even if players couldn't play any race in any alliance, DC wouldn't be in a bad spot. If anything, EP would lack a good stamina race.

filmoretub17_ESO · April 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

Altmer, Dunmer and Breton are all good for magicka builds.
Bosmer, Redguard and Imperial are good for stamina.
Orc, Khajiit and Nord passives aren't really good now, but not to far behind, all three favoring stamina over magicka.
Argonian racials are utter garbage in 1.6.

So no, even if players couldn't play any race in any alliance, DC wouldn't be in a bad spot. If anything, EP would lack a good stamina race.

But DC is in a bad spot and there has to be a reason other then they just don't have any good players.

Sigtric · April 2015

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

People are restricted by racial choice to certain alliances?

I've never experienced such a thing!

Anyone who doesn't have the Explorer's Pack is faction locked when it comes to races. IE you can only play DC's races in DC, unless you buy the unlock.

Agrippa_Invisus · April 2015

Sigtric wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

People are restricted by racial choice to certain alliances?

I've never experienced such a thing!

Anyone who doesn't have the Explorer's Pack is faction locked when it comes to races. IE you can only play DC's races in DC, unless you buy the unlock.

Someone's sarcasm detector is broken.

AhPook_Is_Here · April 2015

Stop lagsploiting with your races' passives EP!

Teargrants · April 2015

No, DC is at a QQ disadvantage.

Winnamine · April 2015

Breton is probably the strongest magicka class in the game.
And magicka builds have been the meta for basically the entire game.
Honestly though, any race can play any class and do it well.
Many of the best DKs in the game weren't dark elves. One of the best templar healers I know is a wood elf.
Especially now, with the champion system giving you access to basically any passives, it really isn't that big a deal.

Agrippa_Invisus · April 2015

Imperial master race!

Gloria Cyrodiil!

RedTalon · April 2015

Given you can now buy any race in any alliance, its only a choice to stay your alliances home race now, and I'm sure racial switches will be offered in the crown store soon enough.

Jauriel · April 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

No, DC is at a QQ disadvantage.

Tis not QQ if its true true.

Oktaine · April 2015

No, we are not anti-EP. But we don't have time for the EP man. The EP man is on top already, the EP man is the boss already... He has first-class citizenship already. So you are wasting your time talking to the EP man. We are working on our own people.

Malcolm X

Orchish · April 2015

Orcs need Berserk back from the Single player games. Berserk should increase my damage by 100% and make me immune to damage for 1 day.

FENGRUSH · April 2015

Orchish wrote: »

Orcs need Berserk back from the Single player games. Berserk should increase my damage by 100% and make me immune to damage for 1 day.

Agreed. Not sure why FENGRUSH does not possess this power.

technohic · April 2015

With TB dead as far as DC goes, it would be hard to show you why DC fails even when there isn't lag. I don't want to upset anyone but some groups seem to do the work or even pull larger numbers, but the bulk of DC would still fail to accomplish anything in that time.

I am fortunate to run with some great players. When I haven't; there is a night and day difference.

MuseTheDrunkenDragon · April 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

Altmer, Dunmer and Breton are all good for magicka builds.
Bosmer, Redguard and Imperial are good for stamina.
Orc, Khajiit and Nord passives aren't really good now, but not to far behind, all three favoring stamina over magicka.
Argonian racials are utter garbage in 1.6.

So no, even if players couldn't play any race in any alliance, DC wouldn't be in a bad spot. If anything, EP would lack a good stamina race.

Wut

This is news to me. I was under the impression that poison/disease resistance was a good thing.

Plus, I like swimming.

Xsorus · April 2015

MuseTheDrunkenDragon wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Altmer, Dunmer and Breton are all good for magicka builds.
Bosmer, Redguard and Imperial are good for stamina.
Orc, Khajiit and Nord passives aren't really good now, but not to far behind, all three favoring stamina over magicka.
Argonian racials are utter garbage in 1.6.

So no, even if players couldn't play any race in any alliance, DC wouldn't be in a bad spot. If anything, EP would lack a good stamina race.

Wut

This is news to me. I was under the impression that poison/disease resistance was a good thing.

Plus, I like swimming.

When the cap was 3k resist, 1kish poison and disease resist was good.

when the cap is 32k resist, 1kish poison/disease resist is awful

ToRelax · April 2015

Winnamine wrote: »

Breton is probably the strongest magicka class in the game.
And magicka builds have been the meta for basically the entire game.
Honestly though, any race can play any class and do it well.
Many of the best DKs in the game weren't dark elves. One of the best templar healers I know is a wood elf.
Especially now, with the champion system giving you access to basically any passives, it really isn't that big a deal.

This is plain wrong because the champion passives are multiplicative - your benefit from picking a class synergizing ith your build is even greater now. Not to mention the removal of softcaps. Of course you can do good with any class, but then again that meanst you could also do well with armor sets that make no sense at all for your build, right? A fitting race is quite an advantage indeed.

Edit: Removed some nonsense i wrote and didnt save earlier. Hate it.

Winnamine · April 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

Breton is probably the strongest magicka class in the game.
And magicka builds have been the meta for basically the entire game.
Honestly though, any race can play any class and do it well.
Many of the best DKs in the game weren't dark elves. One of the best templar healers I know is a wood elf.
Especially now, with the champion system giving you access to basically any passives, it really isn't that big a deal.

This is plain wrong because the champion passives are multiplicative - your benefit from picking a class synergizing ith your build is even greater now. Not to mention the removal of softcaps. Of course you can do good with any class, but then again that meanst you could also do well with armor sets that make no sense at all for your build, right? A fitting race is quite an advantage indeed.

Sure, it's an advantage to you to pick a race that complements your class and play style. Definitely.
But the champion system allows flexibility.
I'm a high elf templar. High elves have no stam passives, but if I decided I hate my guild and am going to become a stam templar, I could go reset my CP and put some in stamina trees to make up for that.
Now, will I have as much stamina as say, a bosmer (bosmers have stam passives, right?) no. I won't.
But I can put enough CP into stam trees to run a decent stam build.

It's helpful if your racial passives support your build, but it's honestly not the end of the world if they don't.

Agrippa_Invisus · April 2015

Winnamine wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

Breton is probably the strongest magicka class in the game.
And magicka builds have been the meta for basically the entire game.
Honestly though, any race can play any class and do it well.
Many of the best DKs in the game weren't dark elves. One of the best templar healers I know is a wood elf.
Especially now, with the champion system giving you access to basically any passives, it really isn't that big a deal.

This is plain wrong because the champion passives are multiplicative - your benefit from picking a class synergizing ith your build is even greater now. Not to mention the removal of softcaps. Of course you can do good with any class, but then again that meanst you could also do well with armor sets that make no sense at all for your build, right? A fitting race is quite an advantage indeed.

Sure, it's an advantage to you to pick a race that complements your class and play style. Definitely.
But the champion system allows flexibility.
I'm a high elf templar. High elves have no stam passives, but if I decided I hate my guild and am going to become a stam templar, I could go reset my CP and put some in stamina trees to make up for that.
Now, will I have as much stamina as say, a bosmer (bosmers have stam passives, right?) no. I won't.
But I can put enough CP into stam trees to run a decent stam build.

It's helpful if your racial passives support your build, but it's honestly not the end of the world if they don't.

If you want I am sure I can help Decibel out with new, high burst stamina builds for ALL their templars. We'll help find them equipment and enchants and everything. All to help you guys find a new, fun playstyle.

Winnamine · April 2015

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

Breton is probably the strongest magicka class in the game.
And magicka builds have been the meta for basically the entire game.
Honestly though, any race can play any class and do it well.
Many of the best DKs in the game weren't dark elves. One of the best templar healers I know is a wood elf.
Especially now, with the champion system giving you access to basically any passives, it really isn't that big a deal.

This is plain wrong because the champion passives are multiplicative - your benefit from picking a class synergizing ith your build is even greater now. Not to mention the removal of softcaps. Of course you can do good with any class, but then again that meanst you could also do well with armor sets that make no sense at all for your build, right? A fitting race is quite an advantage indeed.

Sure, it's an advantage to you to pick a race that complements your class and play style. Definitely.
But the champion system allows flexibility.
I'm a high elf templar. High elves have no stam passives, but if I decided I hate my guild and am going to become a stam templar, I could go reset my CP and put some in stamina trees to make up for that.
Now, will I have as much stamina as say, a bosmer (bosmers have stam passives, right?) no. I won't.
But I can put enough CP into stam trees to run a decent stam build.

It's helpful if your racial passives support your build, but it's honestly not the end of the world if they don't.

If you want I am sure I can help Decibel out with new, high burst stamina builds for ALL their templars. We'll help find them equipment and enchants and everything. All to help you guys find a new, fun playstyle.

Agrippa! You're all heart

Imagine, being willing to go to all that effort just to help our healers develop fun, stamina burst play styles!
You're like... the Mother Theresa of ESO....

Wreuntzylla · April 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

Argonian racials are utter garbage in 1.6.

QFT.

Once the Argonians were slaves to the dark elves. They fought their way to freedom. Now ZoS has ensured they are slaves once again.

ToRelax · April 2015

Winnamine wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

Breton is probably the strongest magicka class in the game.
And magicka builds have been the meta for basically the entire game.
Honestly though, any race can play any class and do it well.
Many of the best DKs in the game weren't dark elves. One of the best templar healers I know is a wood elf.
Especially now, with the champion system giving you access to basically any passives, it really isn't that big a deal.

This is plain wrong because the champion passives are multiplicative - your benefit from picking a class synergizing ith your build is even greater now. Not to mention the removal of softcaps. Of course you can do good with any class, but then again that meanst you could also do well with armor sets that make no sense at all for your build, right? A fitting race is quite an advantage indeed.

Sure, it's an advantage to you to pick a race that complements your class and play style. Definitely.
But the champion system allows flexibility.
I'm a high elf templar. High elves have no stam passives, but if I decided I hate my guild and am going to become a stam templar, I could go reset my CP and put some in stamina trees to make up for that.
Now, will I have as much stamina as say, a bosmer (bosmers have stam passives, right?) no. I won't.
But I can put enough CP into stam trees to run a decent stam build.

It's helpful if your racial passives support your build, but it's honestly not the end of the world if they don't.

Wether your build is decent or not depends on other player's builds. And if other players want to use their full potential, they will try to gain maximum efficiency from all teh passives you get. For the champion system that means to push stats that are already high, because it's multiplicative. You can get more out of the champion system pushing your magicka regen as an Altmer, than when increasing stamina regen.
Thus, your original statement on that I commented in the first place:

[...]
Especially now, with the champion system giving you access to basically any passives, it really isn't that big a deal.

Is wrong, because it makes race choice just more important than pre 1.6.

corx3 · April 2015

Winnamine wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

Breton is probably the strongest magicka class in the game.
And magicka builds have been the meta for basically the entire game.
Honestly though, any race can play any class and do it well.
Many of the best DKs in the game weren't dark elves. One of the best templar healers I know is a wood elf.
Especially now, with the champion system giving you access to basically any passives, it really isn't that big a deal.

This is plain wrong because the champion passives are multiplicative - your benefit from picking a class synergizing ith your build is even greater now. Not to mention the removal of softcaps. Of course you can do good with any class, but then again that meanst you could also do well with armor sets that make no sense at all for your build, right? A fitting race is quite an advantage indeed.

Sure, it's an advantage to you to pick a race that complements your class and play style. Definitely.
But the champion system allows flexibility.
I'm a high elf templar. High elves have no stam passives, but if I decided I hate my guild and am going to become a stam templar, I could go reset my CP and put some in stamina trees to make up for that.
Now, will I have as much stamina as say, a bosmer (bosmers have stam passives, right?) no. I won't.
But I can put enough CP into stam trees to run a decent stam build.

It's helpful if your racial passives support your build, but it's honestly not the end of the world if they don't.

If you want I am sure I can help Decibel out with new, high burst stamina builds for ALL their templars. We'll help find them equipment and enchants and everything. All to help you guys find a new, fun playstyle.

Agrippa! You're all heart
Imagine, being willing to go to all that effort just to help our healers develop fun, stamina burst play styles!
You're like... the Mother Theresa of ESO....

Winnamine in leather?

Huntler · April 2015

corx3 wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

Breton is probably the strongest magicka class in the game.
And magicka builds have been the meta for basically the entire game.
Honestly though, any race can play any class and do it well.
Many of the best DKs in the game weren't dark elves. One of the best templar healers I know is a wood elf.
Especially now, with the champion system giving you access to basically any passives, it really isn't that big a deal.

This is plain wrong because the champion passives are multiplicative - your benefit from picking a class synergizing ith your build is even greater now. Not to mention the removal of softcaps. Of course you can do good with any class, but then again that meanst you could also do well with armor sets that make no sense at all for your build, right? A fitting race is quite an advantage indeed.

Sure, it's an advantage to you to pick a race that complements your class and play style. Definitely.
But the champion system allows flexibility.
I'm a high elf templar. High elves have no stam passives, but if I decided I hate my guild and am going to become a stam templar, I could go reset my CP and put some in stamina trees to make up for that.
Now, will I have as much stamina as say, a bosmer (bosmers have stam passives, right?) no. I won't.
But I can put enough CP into stam trees to run a decent stam build.

It's helpful if your racial passives support your build, but it's honestly not the end of the world if they don't.

If you want I am sure I can help Decibel out with new, high burst stamina builds for ALL their templars. We'll help find them equipment and enchants and everything. All to help you guys find a new, fun playstyle.

Agrippa! You're all heart
Imagine, being willing to go to all that effort just to help our healers develop fun, stamina burst play styles!
You're like... the Mother Theresa of ESO....

Winnamine in leather?

Nothing new there, you should see what she wears when we ERP

Winnamine · April 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

Breton is probably the strongest magicka class in the game.
And magicka builds have been the meta for basically the entire game.
Honestly though, any race can play any class and do it well.
Many of the best DKs in the game weren't dark elves. One of the best templar healers I know is a wood elf.
Especially now, with the champion system giving you access to basically any passives, it really isn't that big a deal.

This is plain wrong because the champion passives are multiplicative - your benefit from picking a class synergizing ith your build is even greater now. Not to mention the removal of softcaps. Of course you can do good with any class, but then again that meanst you could also do well with armor sets that make no sense at all for your build, right? A fitting race is quite an advantage indeed.

Sure, it's an advantage to you to pick a race that complements your class and play style. Definitely.
But the champion system allows flexibility.
I'm a high elf templar. High elves have no stam passives, but if I decided I hate my guild and am going to become a stam templar, I could go reset my CP and put some in stamina trees to make up for that.
Now, will I have as much stamina as say, a bosmer (bosmers have stam passives, right?) no. I won't.
But I can put enough CP into stam trees to run a decent stam build.

It's helpful if your racial passives support your build, but it's honestly not the end of the world if they don't.

Wether your build is decent or not depends on other player's builds. And if other players want to use their full potential, they will try to gain maximum efficiency from all teh passives you get. For the champion system that means to push stats that are already high, because it's multiplicative. You can get more out of the champion system pushing your magicka regen as an Altmer, than when increasing stamina regen.
Thus, your original statement on that I commented in the first place:

[...]
Especially now, with the champion system giving you access to basically any passives, it really isn't that big a deal.

Is wrong, because it makes race choice just more important than pre 1.6.

Actually, I put most of my CP into cost reduction, because even though high elves have magicka regen passives, cost reduction is still a far more efficient way of managing magicka.
And yes, I wish I was a Breton, bc I would love to stack their cost reduction passives with the CP cost reduction, but I still manage to keep my magicka up fairly well.
I very rarely run low on magicka, even with constant casting.

Now, in 1v1s, you would probably be right, because if you have two equally skilled players, who have both maximized everything, then yeah, sucks to be the guy with the crap racial passives.
But in normal pvp, it's not like that. I can take advantage of cost reduction points to heal my group, and it matters very little that a Breton templar would have better cost reduction. Especially since I don't really run out of magicka.

booksmcread · April 2015

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

Breton is probably the strongest magicka class in the game.
And magicka builds have been the meta for basically the entire game.
Honestly though, any race can play any class and do it well.
Many of the best DKs in the game weren't dark elves. One of the best templar healers I know is a wood elf.
Especially now, with the champion system giving you access to basically any passives, it really isn't that big a deal.

This is plain wrong because the champion passives are multiplicative - your benefit from picking a class synergizing ith your build is even greater now. Not to mention the removal of softcaps. Of course you can do good with any class, but then again that meanst you could also do well with armor sets that make no sense at all for your build, right? A fitting race is quite an advantage indeed.

Sure, it's an advantage to you to pick a race that complements your class and play style. Definitely.
But the champion system allows flexibility.
I'm a high elf templar. High elves have no stam passives, but if I decided I hate my guild and am going to become a stam templar, I could go reset my CP and put some in stamina trees to make up for that.
Now, will I have as much stamina as say, a bosmer (bosmers have stam passives, right?) no. I won't.
But I can put enough CP into stam trees to run a decent stam build.

It's helpful if your racial passives support your build, but it's honestly not the end of the world if they don't.

If you want I am sure I can help Decibel out with new, high burst stamina builds for ALL their templars. We'll help find them equipment and enchants and everything. All to help you guys find a new, fun playstyle.

You haven't come across a pack of rabid werestamplars yet, have you?

Winnamine · April 2015

Huntler wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

One of the best templar healers I know is a wood elf.

[...]

Seriously! lol
I'm talking about Mythdrine.
I think he's got a thing for wood elves

But he makes it work, and he's a really good healer.

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]