Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
The need to be in a guild to sell through vendors should be removed.
-
Elijah_Crow✭✭✭✭✭
✭liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Elijah_Crow wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Elijah_Crow wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »pugyourself wrote: »SteveCampsOut wrote: »Imagine just walking into Walmart and setting up a table to sell your stuff. You think they would put up with that?
Not even close to being an appropriate analogy! Tamriel is not owned by any of these guild leaders with the strangle hold on our current economy. Nor does Walmart own America, yet. You can still rent a space right next door to Walmart and open a store without any permission from the Walton family!
And anyone can also start a guild. The cut goes into the guild bank, which is publicly viewable by members. If the leader is embezzling, I'd advise finding another guild. However I don't think this practice is very common. Guild stores add a fun element to the game and they keep economies local. That's a good thing. Auction houses simply destroy local economies, turn towns into ghost towns, and drive prices of most goods to the bottom. The guild system functions wonderfully for trading and anyone is allowed to start a guild if they don't like existing ones.
How do they keep it local? I can visit any vendor on the map? If one vendor hasn't got it I have to keep traveling all over the map to 16 different locations to try find it. Where none of them could have it, making it a big waste of time. Where if it was just in the main city's where everyone is anyway it wouldn't be a problem.
That's right. There is no internet in Tamriel. There is no global market place. You should have to shop around and when you find a vendor who sells what you like and is always stocked, you should always shop there first.
Global auction houses ruined player shops in game. I for one want to see them back.
Your talking to someone who played SWG I was a crafter and merchant, I never fired a shot off in my life. Being a merchant was a full time job there was no room for questing and exploring. I had my little shop and my repeat customers I even had a few guilds who had a contract with me to keep them in comp armour. I would advertise in cnet. People knew they could rely on me and kept coming back.
This isn't like that though merchant isn't a class, it's a side activity at best to sell some decent loot you got. So no not going to put the time in like I did on SWG to sell stuff because it's not a main part of the game like it was in SWG.
True, but I wouldn't mind being able to craft custom armor from my house on appt. Also an old SWG player from Starsider. Just because it's not a full time profession doesn't mean it can't add a great deal to the game. Just put in instanced neighborhoods and housing and sell furniture in the Crown Shop and boom, instant revenue stream which doesn't equate to pay 2 win. Here to hoping.
As someone who loved my holiday house on tattooine I would love this.
If I didn't have to kill to level up crafting and could totally focus on it I would be all for it because I could advertise my stuff. Without being able to that I'll just be flooded amongst the 1000's of others their.
Could you imagine paying someone on ESO to take you out in the wide to collect mats haha.
I was on bloodfin.
Too bad I can't just set up in Wayrest and have people form a line for their 2 hour food buffs! Then you might be able to survive your mat gathering trip, lol.1 -
Messy1✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm enjoying the ESO trade system. It's refreshing not to have a global auction house.
They should expand the guild trader system and add some more features such as:
-Wandering guild traders, like the wandering merchants already in the game that travel across set routes
-Ability to consign your items to sell in existing guild traders, i.e. I am not part of a trade guild. I want to sell my warlock ring. I put it for sale in an established guild trader, guild trader gets a percentage of sale added to their guild bank.
-Stalls in towns that individual players can hire for 3 days to sell their goods.2 -
Arato✭✭✭✭✭
✭liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »
Me thinks you never read what I said I'll try again and go into a bit more detail for you.
Say we have three guilds: a, b and c.
In the first week the guilds make the following collectively.
A. 10,000
B. 50,000
C. 1,000,000
Each vendor around the world has a rank. The better it is and the higher it's rank is.
So at the start of the week C made the most money so the get the rank 1 vendor. B gets the rank 2 and C gets the rank 3.
In this process no gold has passed to the guild leader at all and the best trading guild got the best spot.
I just have to figure out a way to make membership fair that rewards the sellers and punishes the slackers.
EDIT: oh yeah sometimes I do think I am better at coming up with game mechanics sometimes, because I wouldn't have used players as a core mechanic in the trading system or any system for that mater. That's just common sense.
Uh, that's a terrible idea, because a lot of times the guild that sells the most is the one that is in the primo kiosk spots in high traffic areas. If you're a new guild just starting out there's really no upward mobility for you.
Under the current system, a newer guild with a high number of members and a lot of stuff to sell could OUTBID a guild (if members are willing to contribute for the bid) for a primo spot and make a lot of money, enabling them to perhaps afford to stay in their location or at least in a nearby high traffic kiosk
Edited by Arato on April 8, 2015 5:52AM0 -
liammozzb16_ESO✭✭✭liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »
Me thinks you never read what I said I'll try again and go into a bit more detail for you.
Say we have three guilds: a, b and c.
In the first week the guilds make the following collectively.
A. 10,000
B. 50,000
C. 1,000,000
Each vendor around the world has a rank. The better it is and the higher it's rank is.
So at the start of the week C made the most money so the get the rank 1 vendor. B gets the rank 2 and C gets the rank 3.
In this process no gold has passed to the guild leader at all and the best trading guild got the best spot.
I just have to figure out a way to make membership fair that rewards the sellers and punishes the slackers.
EDIT: oh yeah sometimes I do think I am better at coming up with game mechanics sometimes, because I wouldn't have used players as a core mechanic in the trading system or any system for that mater. That's just common sense.
Uh, that's a terrible idea, because a lot of times the guild that sells the most is the one that is in the primo kiosk spots in high traffic areas. If you're a new guild just starting out there's really no upward mobility for you.
Under this system, a newer guild with a high number of members and a lot of stuff to sell could OUTBID a guild (if members are willing to contribute for the bid) for a primo spot and make a lot of money, enabling them to perhaps afford to stay in their location or at least in a nearby high traffic kiosk
Someone else said that too so I came up with this
The only way I can think of the top of my head to fix that is the guilds aren't owned by the players.
The guilds become leagues each league has 500 users. Sell more go higher up the league sell more how lower down. That means even if you are low level you can still work your way up to the best vendor on the game.0 -
Arato✭✭✭✭✭
✭liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »
Me thinks you never read what I said I'll try again and go into a bit more detail for you.
Say we have three guilds: a, b and c.
In the first week the guilds make the following collectively.
A. 10,000
B. 50,000
C. 1,000,000
Each vendor around the world has a rank. The better it is and the higher it's rank is.
So at the start of the week C made the most money so the get the rank 1 vendor. B gets the rank 2 and C gets the rank 3.
In this process no gold has passed to the guild leader at all and the best trading guild got the best spot.
I just have to figure out a way to make membership fair that rewards the sellers and punishes the slackers.
EDIT: oh yeah sometimes I do think I am better at coming up with game mechanics sometimes, because I wouldn't have used players as a core mechanic in the trading system or any system for that mater. That's just common sense.
Uh, that's a terrible idea, because a lot of times the guild that sells the most is the one that is in the primo kiosk spots in high traffic areas. If you're a new guild just starting out there's really no upward mobility for you.
Under this system, a newer guild with a high number of members and a lot of stuff to sell could OUTBID a guild (if members are willing to contribute for the bid) for a primo spot and make a lot of money, enabling them to perhaps afford to stay in their location or at least in a nearby high traffic kiosk
Someone else said that too so I came up with this
The only way I can think of the top of my head to fix that is the guilds aren't owned by the players.
The guilds become leagues each league has 500 users. Sell more go higher up the league sell more how lower down. That means even if you are low level you can still work your way up to the best vendor on the game.
Player driven economies are the best economies. You're coming from SWG, and you want a dev controlled economy? You're out of your gourd.0 -
liammozzb16_ESO✭✭✭liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »
Me thinks you never read what I said I'll try again and go into a bit more detail for you.
Say we have three guilds: a, b and c.
In the first week the guilds make the following collectively.
A. 10,000
B. 50,000
C. 1,000,000
Each vendor around the world has a rank. The better it is and the higher it's rank is.
So at the start of the week C made the most money so the get the rank 1 vendor. B gets the rank 2 and C gets the rank 3.
In this process no gold has passed to the guild leader at all and the best trading guild got the best spot.
I just have to figure out a way to make membership fair that rewards the sellers and punishes the slackers.
EDIT: oh yeah sometimes I do think I am better at coming up with game mechanics sometimes, because I wouldn't have used players as a core mechanic in the trading system or any system for that mater. That's just common sense.
Uh, that's a terrible idea, because a lot of times the guild that sells the most is the one that is in the primo kiosk spots in high traffic areas. If you're a new guild just starting out there's really no upward mobility for you.
Under this system, a newer guild with a high number of members and a lot of stuff to sell could OUTBID a guild (if members are willing to contribute for the bid) for a primo spot and make a lot of money, enabling them to perhaps afford to stay in their location or at least in a nearby high traffic kiosk
Someone else said that too so I came up with this
The only way I can think of the top of my head to fix that is the guilds aren't owned by the players.
The guilds become leagues each league has 500 users. Sell more go higher up the league sell more how lower down. That means even if you are low level you can still work your way up to the best vendor on the game.
Player driven economies are the best economies. You're coming from SWG, and you want a dev controlled economy? You're out of your gourd.
Make crafting a class in its own.
Make gear destructible
Make crafted gear the best gear in the game
Make a way for me to have excavators to collect mats.
Give me a place to set up shop and sell my own goods without being in a guild.
Then and only then will what you just said be relevant. Crafting and trading are a footnote in ESO compared to SWG.
0 -
pugyourself✭✭✭✭liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »
Me thinks you never read what I said I'll try again and go into a bit more detail for you.
Say we have three guilds: a, b and c.
In the first week the guilds make the following collectively.
A. 10,000
B. 50,000
C. 1,000,000
Each vendor around the world has a rank. The better it is and the higher it's rank is.
So at the start of the week C made the most money so the get the rank 1 vendor. B gets the rank 2 and C gets the rank 3.
In this process no gold has passed to the guild leader at all and the best trading guild got the best spot.
I just have to figure out a way to make membership fair that rewards the sellers and punishes the slackers.
EDIT: oh yeah sometimes I do think I am better at coming up with game mechanics sometimes, because I wouldn't have used players as a core mechanic in the trading system or any system for that mater. That's just common sense.
Uh, that's a terrible idea, because a lot of times the guild that sells the most is the one that is in the primo kiosk spots in high traffic areas. If you're a new guild just starting out there's really no upward mobility for you.
Under this system, a newer guild with a high number of members and a lot of stuff to sell could OUTBID a guild (if members are willing to contribute for the bid) for a primo spot and make a lot of money, enabling them to perhaps afford to stay in their location or at least in a nearby high traffic kiosk
Someone else said that too so I came up with this
The only way I can think of the top of my head to fix that is the guilds aren't owned by the players.
The guilds become leagues each league has 500 users. Sell more go higher up the league sell more how lower down. That means even if you are low level you can still work your way up to the best vendor on the game.
Why not keep it as is and put in a "chance sell" at NPC vendors for people who don't want to join a guild?
For example, I have a recipe with a face value of 9 bucks. I can sell the item to the NPC for 9 bucks or choose a percentage chance of receiving more for the item or receiving nothing and losing the item. So I could see a menu that looks like:
Sell for 9g (100%)
Sell for 27g (80%)
Sell for 45g (60%)
Sell for 63g (40%)
Sell for 81g (20%)
Sell for 90g (10%)
Sell for 100g (5%)
Sell for 500g (1%)
Buybacks would be ineligible for chance sales.
Then you have the ability to make more than by vendor trashing without having to join a guild.0 -
ItsGlaive✭✭✭✭✭
✭Time for the monthly AH posters to make themselves known again I see
The system works for many people in the game, seems the only ones complaining are the ones who don't want to give it a shot.Allow cross-platform transfers and merges6 -
Izzban✭✭✭liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »
The current guild kiosk system more closely models RL than I think many people realize. For instance, if you are trying to sell something on your own (zone chat outside guild kiosks) and you aren't around to sell it, you can't sell it. Mimics being logged out yes? If you have the item in the guild store, it's in the kiosk ready to sell at all hours.
Sometimes you have to go out of your house (dorm room/mom's basement) and away from your internet to find rare and valuable stuff that you want. (oh horrors!) It's almost like searching across Tamriel for that perfect piece you so want. !!
I am on the fence with the guilds. I can see GMs abusing the system and becoming fabulously rich, but they really put in the time to build the guild. Your system seems to reward the best guilds and doesn't provide any chance for lower guilds to jump into the spotlight. Imagine if guild revenue was placed in a certain account and could only be used for bidding on kiosks. That would allow guilds to build up money and grab a better kiosk for a time rather than the same highest sellers being in the best spots every time.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]Edited by ZOS_ArtG on April 8, 2015 2:24PM0 -
Arkadius✭✭✭✭✭
✭liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Divad Zarn wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Divad Zarn wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Having the economy be guild oriented and decentralized is a good thing, it keeps prices competitive and prevents a small group of people from completely hijacking the market for a particular rare item and skyrocketing the price.
What about the fact you have to travel across 16 zones and around 60 vendors to find a good price?
I would be more inclined by the idea of the gold went into a money sink and not the guild leaders pocket.
I would also like to sell how often I want and still be able for my good to be seen in a main city and not some back water no one visits.
But most of all I don't want to rely on a player or have other players rely on me to have the ability to sell on vendors.
If you would be a guildmaster i'm 100% sure that u would steal money from guild bank like this, of course, BUT it doesnt mean that other guildmasters doing same, there are alot of guilds where GMs are fair and care about guild with dont taking anything from it, so your position about "GOLD GOING INTO OTHERS POCKED I"M MAD DELETE IT ADD AUC HAUSE PLS PLS" is totally wrong. Also in many trading guilds everyone can invite, so its not controlled fully by 1 person as u said.
I wouldn't be a guild master in a trade guild simply because I wouldn't want other people's money going to me.
If zeni wanted to be fair about it, that money would have gone into an untouchable pot.
Each vendor has a ranking the guild who made the most money the week before gets the best spot and so forth. Any money left over gets refunded back to the person who made it.
See in less than 30 seconds I just came up with a way to have your guild vendors without a 3rd party player having any control over everyone's gold.
[...]
Me thinks you never read what I said I'll try again and go into a bit more detail for you.
Say we have three guilds: a, b and c.
In the first week the guilds make the following collectively.
A. 10,000
B. 50,000
C. 1,000,000
Each vendor around the world has a rank. The better it is and the higher it's rank is.
So at the start of the week C made the most money so the get the rank 1 vendor. B gets the rank 2 and C gets the rank 3.
In this process no gold has passed to the guild leader at all and the best trading guild got the best spot.
I just have to figure out a way to make membership fair that rewards the sellers and punishes the slackers.
EDIT: oh yeah sometimes I do think I am better at coming up with game mechanics sometimes, because I wouldn't have used players as a core mechanic in the trading system or any system for that mater. That's just common sense.
Tieing "better" kiosks to guilds income is a bad idea. Guilds would just start to artificially increase income by selling cheap items for high prices internally.
[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]
[Moderator Note: Edited quotes to match moderated versions]
Edited by ZOS_ArtG on April 8, 2015 3:05PM0 -
liammozzb16_ESO✭✭✭liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Divad Zarn wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Divad Zarn wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Having the economy be guild oriented and decentralized is a good thing, it keeps prices competitive and prevents a small group of people from completely hijacking the market for a particular rare item and skyrocketing the price.
What about the fact you have to travel across 16 zones and around 60 vendors to find a good price?
I would be more inclined by the idea of the gold went into a money sink and not the guild leaders pocket.
I would also like to sell how often I want and still be able for my good to be seen in a main city and not some back water no one visits.
But most of all I don't want to rely on a player or have other players rely on me to have the ability to sell on vendors.
If you would be a guildmaster i'm 100% sure that u would steal money from guild bank like this, of course, BUT it doesnt mean that other guildmasters doing same, there are alot of guilds where GMs are fair and care about guild with dont taking anything from it, so your position about "GOLD GOING INTO OTHERS POCKED I"M MAD DELETE IT ADD AUC HAUSE PLS PLS" is totally wrong. Also in many trading guilds everyone can invite, so its not controlled fully by 1 person as u said.
I wouldn't be a guild master in a trade guild simply because I wouldn't want other people's money going to me.
If zeni wanted to be fair about it, that money would have gone into an untouchable pot.
Each vendor has a ranking the guild who made the most money the week before gets the best spot and so forth. Any money left over gets refunded back to the person who made it.
See in less than 30 seconds I just came up with a way to have your guild vendors without a 3rd party player having any control over everyone's gold.
[...]
Me thinks you never read what I said I'll try again and go into a bit more detail for you.
Say we have three guilds: a, b and c.
In the first week the guilds make the following collectively.
A. 10,000
B. 50,000
C. 1,000,000
Each vendor around the world has a rank. The better it is and the higher it's rank is.
So at the start of the week C made the most money so the get the rank 1 vendor. B gets the rank 2 and C gets the rank 3.
In this process no gold has passed to the guild leader at all and the best trading guild got the best spot.
I just have to figure out a way to make membership fair that rewards the sellers and punishes the slackers.
EDIT: oh yeah sometimes I do think I am better at coming up with game mechanics sometimes, because I wouldn't have used players as a core mechanic in the trading system or any system for that mater. That's just common sense.
Tieing "better" kiosks to guilds income is a bad idea. Guilds would just start to artificially increase income by selling cheap items for high prices internally.
Internal sales are not counted then.
[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]
[Moderator Note: Edited quotes to match moderated versions]Edited by ZOS_ArtG on April 8, 2015 3:04PM0 -
Arkadius✭✭✭✭✭
✭liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Divad Zarn wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Divad Zarn wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Having the economy be guild oriented and decentralized is a good thing, it keeps prices competitive and prevents a small group of people from completely hijacking the market for a particular rare item and skyrocketing the price.
What about the fact you have to travel across 16 zones and around 60 vendors to find a good price?
I would be more inclined by the idea of the gold went into a money sink and not the guild leaders pocket.
I would also like to sell how often I want and still be able for my good to be seen in a main city and not some back water no one visits.
But most of all I don't want to rely on a player or have other players rely on me to have the ability to sell on vendors.
I feel like your personal arrogance talk's besides of you
If you would be a guildmaster i'm 100% sure that u would steal money from guild bank like this, of course, BUT it doesnt mean that other guildmasters doing same, there are alot of guilds where GMs are fair and care about guild with dont taking anything from it, so your position about "GOLD GOING INTO OTHERS POCKED I"M MAD DELETE IT ADD AUC HAUSE PLS PLS" is totally wrong. Also in many trading guilds everyone can invite, so its not controlled fully by 1 person as u said.
That's where you're wrong and you're a *** judge of character too. I wouldn't be a guild master in a trade guild simply because I wouldn't want other people's money going to me.
If zeni wanted to be fair about it, that money would have gone into an untouchable pot.
Each vendor has a ranking the guild who made the most money the week before gets the best spot and so forth. Any money left over gets refunded back to the person who made it.
See in less than 30 seconds I just came up with a way to have your guild vendors without a 3rd party player having any control over everyone's gold.
And again u talk as blind kid which don't see anything besides of hes nose. First of all, TAX from sells are up to 7%, 3.5% going in black hole and goldsink, 3.5% into guild bank, thats first. Second, how the heck guild should contribute bid for NPC trader up to 3M gold each week without this? can u answer this simple question? with your plan to refund money to those who left it? you know how much problems this will create with this stupid system u already mention? or you think u'r more qualified worker then whole ZOS team who long time was thinking about this system? Again, your personal arrogance talks besides of you with this "i dont want someone to take my money!", dont pay to government then, dont pay to those who own supermarkets, dont pay extra taxes for everything you doing and u will be in jail very soon. Best part of this game is economy, because its ALIVE, not dead like in many other games with AH, so stop *** around of it.
Me thinks you never read what I said I'll try again and go into a bit more detail for you.
Say we have three guilds: a, b and c.
In the first week the guilds make the following collectively.
A. 10,000
B. 50,000
C. 1,000,000
Each vendor around the world has a rank. The better it is and the higher it's rank is.
So at the start of the week C made the most money so the get the rank 1 vendor. B gets the rank 2 and C gets the rank 3.
In this process no gold has passed to the guild leader at all and the best trading guild got the best spot.
I just have to figure out a way to make membership fair that rewards the sellers and punishes the slackers.
EDIT: oh yeah sometimes I do think I am better at coming up with game mechanics sometimes, because I wouldn't have used players as a core mechanic in the trading system or any system for that mater. That's just common sense.
Tieing "better" kiosks to guilds income is a bad idea. Guilds would just start to artificially increase income by selling cheap items for high prices internally.
Internal sales are not counted then.
So two guilds that want to keep their traders come together and push their incomes. Same story.
0 -
liammozzb16_ESO✭✭✭liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Divad Zarn wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Divad Zarn wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Having the economy be guild oriented and decentralized is a good thing, it keeps prices competitive and prevents a small group of people from completely hijacking the market for a particular rare item and skyrocketing the price.
What about the fact you have to travel across 16 zones and around 60 vendors to find a good price?
I would be more inclined by the idea of the gold went into a money sink and not the guild leaders pocket.
I would also like to sell how often I want and still be able for my good to be seen in a main city and not some back water no one visits.
But most of all I don't want to rely on a player or have other players rely on me to have the ability to sell on vendors.
I feel like your personal arrogance talk's besides of you If you would be a guildmaster i'm 100% sure that u would steal money from guild bank like this, of course, BUT it doesnt mean that other guildmasters doing same, there are alot of guilds where GMs are fair and care about guild with dont taking anything from it, so your position about "GOLD GOING INTO OTHERS POCKED I"M MAD DELETE IT ADD AUC HAUSE PLS PLS" is totally wrong. Also in many trading guilds everyone can invite, so its not controlled fully by 1 person as u said.
That's where you're wrong and you're a *** judge of character too. I wouldn't be a guild master in a trade guild simply because I wouldn't want other people's money going to me.
If zeni wanted to be fair about it, that money would have gone into an untouchable pot.
Each vendor has a ranking the guild who made the most money the week before gets the best spot and so forth. Any money left over gets refunded back to the person who made it.
See in less than 30 seconds I just came up with a way to have your guild vendors without a 3rd party player having any control over everyone's gold.
And again u talk as blind kid which don't see anything besides of hes nose. First of all, TAX from sells are up to 7%, 3.5% going in black hole and goldsink, 3.5% into guild bank, thats first. Second, how the heck guild should contribute bid for NPC trader up to 3M gold each week without this? can u answer this simple question? with your plan to refund money to those who left it? you know how much problems this will create with this stupid system u already mention? or you think u'r more qualified worker then whole ZOS team who long time was thinking about this system? Again, your personal arrogance talks besides of you with this "i dont want someone to take my money!", dont pay to government then, dont pay to those who own supermarkets, dont pay extra taxes for everything you doing and u will be in jail very soon. Best part of this game is economy, because its ALIVE, not dead like in many other games with AH, so stop *** around of it.
Me thinks you never read what I said I'll try again and go into a bit more detail for you.
Say we have three guilds: a, b and c.
In the first week the guilds make the following collectively.
A. 10,000
B. 50,000
C. 1,000,000
Each vendor around the world has a rank. The better it is and the higher it's rank is.
So at the start of the week C made the most money so the get the rank 1 vendor. B gets the rank 2 and C gets the rank 3.
In this process no gold has passed to the guild leader at all and the best trading guild got the best spot.
I just have to figure out a way to make membership fair that rewards the sellers and punishes the slackers.
EDIT: oh yeah sometimes I do think I am better at coming up with game mechanics sometimes, because I wouldn't have used players as a core mechanic in the trading system or any system for that mater. That's just common sense.
Tieing "better" kiosks to guilds income is a bad idea. Guilds would just start to artificially increase income by selling cheap items for high prices internally.
Internal sales are not counted then.
So two guilds that want to keep their traders come together and push their incomes. Same story.
I put this in a different post too.
The only way I can think of the top of my head to fix that is the guilds aren't owned by the players.
The guilds become leagues each league has 500 users. Sell more go higher up the league sell more how lower down. That means even if you are low level you can still work your way up to the best vendor on the game.
So you have no affinity to the other people in the league you just want to keep your sales up.0 -
Ace_SiN✭✭✭✭Well I actually like this about ESO. I'm not saying the system is perfect, but I'll pass on a global AH, that anyone can use, if that's what you're asking for. I like that I can shop around and find huge deals on some popular/rare items.King of Beasts1 -
pugyourself✭✭✭✭liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Divad Zarn wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Divad Zarn wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Having the economy be guild oriented and decentralized is a good thing, it keeps prices competitive and prevents a small group of people from completely hijacking the market for a particular rare item and skyrocketing the price.
What about the fact you have to travel across 16 zones and around 60 vendors to find a good price?
I would be more inclined by the idea of the gold went into a money sink and not the guild leaders pocket.
I would also like to sell how often I want and still be able for my good to be seen in a main city and not some back water no one visits.
But most of all I don't want to rely on a player or have other players rely on me to have the ability to sell on vendors.
If you would be a guildmaster i'm 100% sure that u would steal money from guild bank like this, of course, BUT it doesnt mean that other guildmasters doing same, there are alot of guilds where GMs are fair and care about guild with dont taking anything from it, so your position about "GOLD GOING INTO OTHERS POCKED I"M MAD DELETE IT ADD AUC HAUSE PLS PLS" is totally wrong. Also in many trading guilds everyone can invite, so its not controlled fully by 1 person as u said.
I wouldn't be a guild master in a trade guild simply because I wouldn't want other people's money going to me.
If zeni wanted to be fair about it, that money would have gone into an untouchable pot.
Each vendor has a ranking the guild who made the most money the week before gets the best spot and so forth. Any money left over gets refunded back to the person who made it.
See in less than 30 seconds I just came up with a way to have your guild vendors without a 3rd party player having any control over everyone's gold.
[...]
Me thinks you never read what I said I'll try again and go into a bit more detail for you.
Say we have three guilds: a, b and c.
In the first week the guilds make the following collectively.
A. 10,000
B. 50,000
C. 1,000,000
Each vendor around the world has a rank. The better it is and the higher it's rank is.
So at the start of the week C made the most money so the get the rank 1 vendor. B gets the rank 2 and C gets the rank 3.
In this process no gold has passed to the guild leader at all and the best trading guild got the best spot.
I just have to figure out a way to make membership fair that rewards the sellers and punishes the slackers.
EDIT: oh yeah sometimes I do think I am better at coming up with game mechanics sometimes, because I wouldn't have used players as a core mechanic in the trading system or any system for that mater. That's just common sense.
Tieing "better" kiosks to guilds income is a bad idea. Guilds would just start to artificially increase income by selling cheap items for high prices internally.
Internal sales are not counted then.
So two guilds that want to keep their traders come together and push their incomes. Same story.
I put this in a different post too.
The only way I can think of the top of my head to fix that is the guilds aren't owned by the players.
The guilds become leagues each league has 500 users. Sell more go higher up the league sell more how lower down. That means even if you are low level you can still work your way up to the best vendor on the game.
So you have no affinity to the other people in the league you just want to keep your sales up.
But that would destroy the community that guildies have spent so much time building.
[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]
[Moderator Note: Edited quotes to match moderated versions]Edited by ZOS_ArtG on April 8, 2015 3:07PM0 -
liammozzb16_ESO✭✭✭Well I actually like this about ESO. I'm not saying the system is perfect, but I'll pass on a global AH, that anyone can use, if that's what you're asking for. I like that I can shop around and find huge deals on some popular/rare items.
I have gone from wanting a auction house to wanting leagues That have 500 people in each the more you sell the higher up the league you go. Sell less then you go down a league. The top league has the best spot and it works down from there.pugyourself wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Divad Zarn wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Divad Zarn wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Having the economy be guild oriented and decentralized is a good thing, it keeps prices competitive and prevents a small group of people from completely hijacking the market for a particular rare item and skyrocketing the price.
What about the fact you have to travel across 16 zones and around 60 vendors to find a good price?
I would be more inclined by the idea of the gold went into a money sink and not the guild leaders pocket.
I would also like to sell how often I want and still be able for my good to be seen in a main city and not some back water no one visits.
But most of all I don't want to rely on a player or have other players rely on me to have the ability to sell on vendors.
If you would be a guildmaster i'm 100% sure that u would steal money from guild bank like this, of course, BUT it doesnt mean that other guildmasters doing same, there are alot of guilds where GMs are fair and care about guild with dont taking anything from it, so your position about "GOLD GOING INTO OTHERS POCKED I"M MAD DELETE IT ADD AUC HAUSE PLS PLS" is totally wrong. Also in many trading guilds everyone can invite, so its not controlled fully by 1 person as u said.
I wouldn't be a guild master in a trade guild simply because I wouldn't want other people's money going to me.
If zeni wanted to be fair about it, that money would have gone into an untouchable pot.
Each vendor has a ranking the guild who made the most money the week before gets the best spot and so forth. Any money left over gets refunded back to the person who made it.
See in less than 30 seconds I just came up with a way to have your guild vendors without a 3rd party player having any control over everyone's gold.
[...]
Me thinks you never read what I said I'll try again and go into a bit more detail for you.
Say we have three guilds: a, b and c.
In the first week the guilds make the following collectively.
A. 10,000
B. 50,000
C. 1,000,000
Each vendor around the world has a rank. The better it is and the higher it's rank is.
So at the start of the week C made the most money so the get the rank 1 vendor. B gets the rank 2 and C gets the rank 3.
In this process no gold has passed to the guild leader at all and the best trading guild got the best spot.
I just have to figure out a way to make membership fair that rewards the sellers and punishes the slackers.
EDIT: oh yeah sometimes I do think I am better at coming up with game mechanics sometimes, because I wouldn't have used players as a core mechanic in the trading system or any system for that mater. That's just common sense.
Tieing "better" kiosks to guilds income is a bad idea. Guilds would just start to artificially increase income by selling cheap items for high prices internally.
Internal sales are not counted then.
So two guilds that want to keep their traders come together and push their incomes. Same story.
I put this in a different post too.
The only way I can think of the top of my head to fix that is the guilds aren't owned by the players.
The guilds become leagues each league has 500 users. Sell more go higher up the league sell more how lower down. That means even if you are low level you can still work your way up to the best vendor on the game.
So you have no affinity to the other people in the league you just want to keep your sales up.
But that would destroy the community that guildies have spent so much time building.
No it wouldn't everyone in the guild would still be in the guild it just doesn't have a trade vendor any more.
[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]
[Moderator Note: Edited quotes to match moderated versions]Edited by ZOS_ArtG on April 8, 2015 3:08PM0 -
Takhistis✭✭✭It promotes people joining guilds with good reputation and even better vendor locations... Which goes against the idea of guilds... Unless you're a trading guildNA-DC-NB VR1 Ilythrian
Proud member of Guild Medieval, More Than Fair, The Angry Unicorn Inn0 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Having the economy be guild oriented and decentralized is a good thing, it keeps prices competitive and prevents a small group of people from completely hijacking the market for a particular rare item and skyrocketing the price.
What about the fact you have to travel across 16 zones and around 60 vendors to find a good price?
I would be more inclined by the idea of the gold went into a money sink and not the guild leaders pocket.
I would also like to sell how often I want and still be able for my good to be seen in a main city and not some back water no one visits.
But most of all I don't want to rely on a player or have other players rely on me to have the ability to sell on vendors.
Okay in Guild Wars 2, where there is a global AH, there's a few rare items that due to insider trading with information provided by people who are privileged with the preview server access shoot up exponentially in price, and these small groups of people can control the economy and get exorbitantly wealthy with it, while everything else races to price floor due to the entire world trying to undercut each other.
Here, yes there are some common items with no real value, but prices are competitve withour racing to a floor, and there's not a small group of people who control the prices on everything valuable.
The fact that some people will pay more for convenience instead of hunting through 16 different zones and 30 kiosks for the absolute best price allows for values of items to fluctuate between guild stores and not all race to the bottom. it also allows you as a buyer the opportunity to hunt for a killer deal, where in a global auction house, it benefits the buyer only because everything races to a price floor with 1 copper undercuts every 5s. Also, with this decentralized system, a shrewd merchant can find a killer deal on a backwater kiosk, and then resell for market value over their guild kiosk. Those opportunities are ruined when it's a global AH.
Think about it for a moment, you're asking for Walmart to take over the entire retail sector and put everyone else out of budiness.
One of the rare people to comment on this topic that actually gets it.
I couldn't have said it better myself. I firmly believe that the vast majority of people asking for an auction house in ESO do not truly understand what they would be getting.
In regards to the OP: just join a few trading guilds. They are everywhere and easy to find. Drop the preconceived notions and try a few with an open mind. They aren't evil empires. They are just a collection of people just like you looking to sell their wares.
2 -
liammozzb16_ESO✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Having the economy be guild oriented and decentralized is a good thing, it keeps prices competitive and prevents a small group of people from completely hijacking the market for a particular rare item and skyrocketing the price.
What about the fact you have to travel across 16 zones and around 60 vendors to find a good price?
I would be more inclined by the idea of the gold went into a money sink and not the guild leaders pocket.
I would also like to sell how often I want and still be able for my good to be seen in a main city and not some back water no one visits.
But most of all I don't want to rely on a player or have other players rely on me to have the ability to sell on vendors.
Okay in Guild Wars 2, where there is a global AH, there's a few rare items that due to insider trading with information provided by people who are privileged with the preview server access shoot up exponentially in price, and these small groups of people can control the economy and get exorbitantly wealthy with it, while everything else races to price floor due to the entire world trying to undercut each other.
Here, yes there are some common items with no real value, but prices are competitve withour racing to a floor, and there's not a small group of people who control the prices on everything valuable.
The fact that some people will pay more for convenience instead of hunting through 16 different zones and 30 kiosks for the absolute best price allows for values of items to fluctuate between guild stores and not all race to the bottom. it also allows you as a buyer the opportunity to hunt for a killer deal, where in a global auction house, it benefits the buyer only because everything races to a price floor with 1 copper undercuts every 5s. Also, with this decentralized system, a shrewd merchant can find a killer deal on a backwater kiosk, and then resell for market value over their guild kiosk. Those opportunities are ruined when it's a global AH.
Think about it for a moment, you're asking for Walmart to take over the entire retail sector and put everyone else out of budiness.
One of the rare people to comment on this topic that actually gets it.
I couldn't have said it better myself. I firmly believe that the vast majority of people asking for an auction house in ESO do not truly understand what they would be getting.
In regards to the OP: just join a few trading guilds. They are everywhere and easy to find. Drop the preconceived notions and try a few with an open mind. They aren't evil empires. They are just a collection of people just like you looking to sell their wares.
I know the AH isn't the best solution, playing WoW has shown my just how bad things can get.
There has to be a better solution than having to go through a 3rd party player.
I came up with instead of guild you have leagues. Each league has 500 places the top league has the best vendor and it goes down from there.
The more you sell the higher up your league you go. At the end of the week the top 50 from one league gets promoted the bottom 50 get relegated.
It removes all 3rd party player involvement and is fair to all who want to trade.
0 -
hiyde✭✭✭✭✭
✭liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »
I would be more inclined by the idea of the gold went into a money sink and not the guild leaders pocket.
Generalize much? Do you have a single example to back up this claim? Because my experience is that in successful trade guilds, the GMs and officers are devoting dozens of hours a week to recruiting, farming prizes and helping people learn how to be great traders. It's far more likely that they are CONTRIBUTING SIGNIFICANT GOLD to help grow the guild, NOT EMBEZZLING IT.
As has been pointed out, Kiosk cost and bank withdrawals/deposits are all public info within your guild(s). If you're seeing a 300,000G kiosk bid, 6 or 7 figure withdrawals and raffles that don't reward any gold, you might have a problem. But that's the exception, not the rule.
If someone wants to make a ton of gold, there are far better alternatives than running a trade guild. The 3.5% of sales tax covers a *fraction* of the kiosk costs in major trading hubs. It's actually a lot of work to do it right.
Edited by hiyde on April 8, 2015 7:24AM@Hiyde GM/Founder - Bleakrock Barter Co (Trade Guild - PC/NA) | Blackbriar Barter Co (Trade Guild-PC/NA)1 -
liammozzb16_ESO✭✭✭liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »
I would be more inclined by the idea of the gold went into a money sink and not the guild leaders pocket.
Generalize much? Do you have a single example to back up this claim? Because my experience is that in successful trade guilds, the GMs and officers are devoting dozens of hours a week to recruiting, farming prizes and helping people learn how to be great traders. It's far more likely that they are CONTRIBUTING SIGNIFICANT GOLD to help grow the guild, NOT EMBEZZLING IT.
As has been pointed out, Kiosk cost and bank withdrawals/deposits are all public info within your guild(s). If you're seeing a 300,000G kiosk bid, 6 or 7 figure withdrawals and raffles that don't reward any gold, you might have a problem. But that's the exception, not the rule.
If someone wants to make a ton of gold, there are far better alternatives than running a trade guild. The 3.5% of sales tax covers a *fraction* of the kiosk costs in major trading hubs. It's actually a lot of work to do it right.
What I proposed one post up sounds a lot fairer and cost affective too then.
You could still have a weekly buy in as a money sink if needed.
0 -
Arato✭✭✭✭✭
✭liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Well I actually like this about ESO. I'm not saying the system is perfect, but I'll pass on a global AH, that anyone can use, if that's what you're asking for. I like that I can shop around and find huge deals on some popular/rare items.
I have gone from wanting a auction house to wanting leagues That have 500 people in each the more you sell the higher up the league you go. Sell less then you go down a league. The top league has the best spot and it works down from there.pugyourself wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Divad Zarn wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Divad Zarn wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »Having the economy be guild oriented and decentralized is a good thing, it keeps prices competitive and prevents a small group of people from completely hijacking the market for a particular rare item and skyrocketing the price.
What about the fact you have to travel across 16 zones and around 60 vendors to find a good price?
I would be more inclined by the idea of the gold went into a money sink and not the guild leaders pocket.
I would also like to sell how often I want and still be able for my good to be seen in a main city and not some back water no one visits.
But most of all I don't want to rely on a player or have other players rely on me to have the ability to sell on vendors.
If you would be a guildmaster i'm 100% sure that u would steal money from guild bank like this, of course, BUT it doesnt mean that other guildmasters doing same, there are alot of guilds where GMs are fair and care about guild with dont taking anything from it, so your position about "GOLD GOING INTO OTHERS POCKED I"M MAD DELETE IT ADD AUC HAUSE PLS PLS" is totally wrong. Also in many trading guilds everyone can invite, so its not controlled fully by 1 person as u said.
I wouldn't be a guild master in a trade guild simply because I wouldn't want other people's money going to me.
If zeni wanted to be fair about it, that money would have gone into an untouchable pot.
Each vendor has a ranking the guild who made the most money the week before gets the best spot and so forth. Any money left over gets refunded back to the person who made it.
See in less than 30 seconds I just came up with a way to have your guild vendors without a 3rd party player having any control over everyone's gold.
[...]
Me thinks you never read what I said I'll try again and go into a bit more detail for you.
Say we have three guilds: a, b and c.
In the first week the guilds make the following collectively.
A. 10,000
B. 50,000
C. 1,000,000
Each vendor around the world has a rank. The better it is and the higher it's rank is.
So at the start of the week C made the most money so the get the rank 1 vendor. B gets the rank 2 and C gets the rank 3.
In this process no gold has passed to the guild leader at all and the best trading guild got the best spot.
I just have to figure out a way to make membership fair that rewards the sellers and punishes the slackers.
EDIT: oh yeah sometimes I do think I am better at coming up with game mechanics sometimes, because I wouldn't have used players as a core mechanic in the trading system or any system for that mater. That's just common sense.
Tieing "better" kiosks to guilds income is a bad idea. Guilds would just start to artificially increase income by selling cheap items for high prices internally.
Internal sales are not counted then.
So two guilds that want to keep their traders come together and push their incomes. Same story.
I put this in a different post too.
The only way I can think of the top of my head to fix that is the guilds aren't owned by the players.
The guilds become leagues each league has 500 users. Sell more go higher up the league sell more how lower down. That means even if you are low level you can still work your way up to the best vendor on the game.
So you have no affinity to the other people in the league you just want to keep your sales up.
But that would destroy the community that guildies have spent so much time building.
No it wouldn't everyone in the guild would still be in the guild it just doesn't have a trade vendor any more.
It's a dumb idea. Just let it go.
The current system allows for competition while also acting as a needed gold sink.
[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]
[Moderator Note: Edited quotes to match moderated versions]Edited by ZOS_ArtG on April 8, 2015 3:12PM2 -
P3ZZL3✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ok, let's clear something up from the very beginning. Putting any form of trading system into a "League" is going to be completely open to abuse and is absurd.
CP561 Redguard | Jabsy Templar | Stamina Build
CP561 Breton | Jesus Beam Templar | Magicka Build Forever!
CP561 Naked Nord | Tanky DK | Stamigicka Build
✭✭✭ Check ESO Server Status Live!: http://eso.webhub.eu/ ✭✭✭1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »There has to be a better solution than having to go through a 3rd party player.
Look, I'm sorry, but you really need to get over this fear of other players. There are good guilds out there. You can find them. Just look for them.1 -
liammozzb16_ESO✭✭✭Ok, let's clear something up from the very beginning. Putting any form of trading system into a "League" is going to be completely open to abuse and is absurd.
Any system where a player has ultimate control over the other players is also subject to abuse. Like it is now.
The only way you could abuse it is to pay people to buy your stuff with is going to end up costing you more than you make.starkerealm wrote: »liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »There has to be a better solution than having to go through a 3rd party player.
Look, I'm sorry, but you really need to get over this fear of other players. There are good guilds out there. You can find them. Just look for them.
I can go weeks without selling anything I only really sell stuff when I want money for something and I'll go on a grinding spree collecting mats to sell.
No serious trading guild is going to keep me in their guild if I do so little trading. Trading guilds the way they set up are only for people who want to do it week in week out.0 -
P3ZZL3✭✭✭✭✭
✭Actually, again, incorrect. Go for a guild that is more social first, that have a heavy slant on Trading. I know of many out there.
Hell, I'm a member of one that I sell stuff on, and because I had the most sales that month, they sent me 10k gold..lolCP561 Redguard | Jabsy Templar | Stamina Build
CP561 Breton | Jesus Beam Templar | Magicka Build Forever!
CP561 Naked Nord | Tanky DK | Stamigicka Build
✭✭✭ Check ESO Server Status Live!: http://eso.webhub.eu/ ✭✭✭0 -
Auction house system is garbage.
A unified system would be much better.
I honestly would rather just grind mobs for drops/set items than use the current AH system, its actually faster than visiting all these stupid useless vender npcs that have no items for sale.Edited by Dre4dwolfb14_ESO on April 8, 2015 10:14AM0 -
Flaminir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Personally I think that some people haven't quite 'got' the whole trading sidegame going on here...
I totally understand that some want everything instantly & right in front of them with minimal effort (Auction House)...
...But the whole local economies thing, traders, buy low - sell high etc etc..... its fun! It's a mini-game within the game.... that's what I think some don't get.
And just like all parts of ESO you can either ignore it and take other routes such as selling in chat etc, or you can embrace it & have some fun / make more money.
To me its a fun side game & practically content... if they ever removed the trader system & replaced it with a godawful auction house I'd be a saaaad panda.GM of the Unholy LegacyPC/EU/EP3 -
P3ZZL3✭✭✭✭✭
✭@flaminir Absolutely and well said. Personally, I find it more exciting and entertaining than PVP
lol CP561 Redguard | Jabsy Templar | Stamina Build
CP561 Breton | Jesus Beam Templar | Magicka Build Forever!
CP561 Naked Nord | Tanky DK | Stamigicka Build
✭✭✭ Check ESO Server Status Live!: http://eso.webhub.eu/ ✭✭✭1 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I find the current selling system extremely cumbersome and unappealing. It seems to irritate MOST shoppers but thus far ZOS has evinced no interest in changing it. This is ironic since they talk about the crown store selling "convenience" items that save players time yet are content to make you waste hours looks for a pair of shoes. At the very least there should be a server-wide search system where you can pinpoint where the item you want IS rather than spending the TIME to go to 16 different locations.
Also, anyone SHOULD be able to sell their items through any guild store with a kiosk. If they are not guild members, the trade guild is at liberty to charge them a slightly higher percentage than they would charge their own members.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!0