I'm not sure what makes people think that a 15th thread on the same subject is going to get an official response just by tagging names....

The last thing we've heard is that the VR system is still going to be phased out, but it's clear that the main focus of the company is on the console release. So we'll get an answer when they have one.

Spamming the forum with these threads will not get Vat Ranks removed any sooner.

This is a fact.

Agreed. It's too important an issue to forget about, so we need to keep asking.

It's hilarious how the devs will talk for hours about netch plushies but won't answer the questions that are driving everyone crazy!

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SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Still unclear why your life will improve when they go.

If you want CP you will have easily reached VR ranks before you have enough CP to be effective.

Removing VR will not remove Cadwells's Silver and Gold, so if this is what you wish changed then try actually saying that instead.

Whether VR ranks exist or not you will still have the same choices to gain XP as today.

Even if everyone is set to level 50 and ZOS never add more levels (say up to 63) you will STILL have to go quest for skill points and XP for CP.

So... What do you actually want? A game that ends totally at 50? Out of the box top level characters with all skill points, CP etc?

I don't want to level my alts all the way thorough Cadwell Hell just so they can wear my main's VR14 armor sets. Level 1-50 isn't too bad to repeat, but VR1-14 is SOOO BORING.

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I think they just plan on keeping them at this point. They should have removed them in 1.6, I doubt they will right after a console launch...

domenthechief wrote: »

I'm not sure why we shouldn't keep trying. Sorry for not being a passive observer.

Because you haven't taken a moment to consider why ZO might not be giving any clear official statements on this.

Let's just say that (and this really doesn't have to be hypothetical) the developers are currently hard at work on figuring out how they want to phase out VR and maintain a semblance of balance, tiered equipment, etc. They might, at the end of it all, figure out that entirely removing VR from the game won't work after all. Or they may make some sweeping changes to item levels. There are lots of potential ways it could play out, and providing a definitive yes or no answer when they don't know what the system will look like will only lead to more complaining.

Veteran grind is the main reason I have little desire to continue playing once I hit 50.

domenthechief wrote: »

As a starter, more people will be able to play together in pledges, trials, PvP will actually be worth playing since I, as a VET2, won't get killed by a VET14 with best gear in two hits, but I will fight a level 50 character with my level 50 character.

The only difference will be our gear and build, but skill will matter the most. The odds would we pretty much balanced on both sides, not only on one as it is now.

End-game should never consist of more leveling. Let alone grinding. And that's what veterans ranks are. A long, annoying, painful grind, a cancer of this game's end-game. Sure, you can grind CPs, but that's your choice. They provide minor bonuses and don't limit player's progression in a way the veteran ranks do.

I would not count on everyone being just "level 50" when (if) Veteran Ranks are removed. Besides, VR14 is end game, not VR2, so it would not be fair to either the VR2 or the VR14 to suddenly make them both Level 50 with a collapsed itemization to go with it.

Unless they find something to do with the millions of extra experience points that a VR 14 has earned since Level 50, and Champion System does not count, then they should simply stick with Veteran Ranks and continue to expand them beyond 14 every so often.

domenthechief wrote: »

As a starter, more people will be able to play together in pledges, trials, PvP will actually be worth playing since I, as a VET2, won't get killed by a VET14 with best gear in two hits, but I will fight a level 50 character with my level 50 character.

The only difference will be our gear and build, but skill will matter the most. The odds would we pretty much balanced on both sides, not only on one as it is now.

End-game should never consist of more leveling. Let alone grinding. And that's what veterans ranks are. A long, annoying, painful grind, a cancer of this game's end-game. Sure, you can grind CPs, but that's your choice. They provide minor bonuses and don't limit player's progression in a way the veteran ranks do.

CP are not really a choice because I doubt that people will suddenly all play together if VR ranks go - for example people are already looking for players with the 12% extra crit passive for 'endgame' content even with VR ranks... that passive requires 90 CP - that's 36,000,000 XP or the equivalent of getting to VR36, if it existed.

To get those CP you will have to do something - and right now that means grinding or questing until you run out of quests and then grinding some more.

This is why I asked what YOU wanted and reading between the lines of your post and those of others what you really want is ways to reach parity with players without having to quest through the silver/gold content.

There are a few obvious possible responses to this...

ZOS can flatten the ranks and make 50 the top level, assuming they can do this to gear/players/mobs without causing truly epic bugfests, and then CP score will become the new separator of players. Because humans always find ways to rank each other. P{l;ayers will still be sad.

ZOS rename VR1-14 to levels 51-64 so as to avoid possible bugfest and nothing else changes - players will still be sad.

ZOS work to create a variety of ways to gain the XP needed for levels above 50 and CP - options to do Cadwell if you want, new quest zones, upscaling grind XP, upscaling PvP XP, adding other ways to gain XP to suit other play styles. Possibly solves everyone's issues?

ZOS offer crown store pre-made VR14s - solves the issue if it is simply one of 'I don't want to do the material more than once'. Personally this would make me sad.

As to the PvP thing where do you draw the line when I come into PvP with my freshly minted level 10 and then suggest that level 10 should be the highest level because a level 30 can 2 shot me. I suspect you would tell me to go away and level up because games have levels... I am very sympathetic to people finding the ways to level up limited and boring on repeat playthroughs, but I am far less sympathetic to those who want levels removed simply because they don't want to earn them.

It then becomes a race to the bottom and we all end up as levels ones running naked with only a stick to hit each other with simply because no-one wants anyone to be able to be better than them.

MAOofDC wrote: »

I noticed that every person who advocates getting rid of veteran levels STILL hasn't expressed their thoughts on what will happen to the 13 extra Skill and Attribute points. I mean if you're vet 14 and they make you level 50 do you just LOSE 13 of each type of points? Or do those characters keep them and have an unfair advantage over newer ones? Please explain how this would work in your Veteran levelless world view. I'm not trying to an as- here I really want to know what you feel is the best compromise. Because there would have to be some sort of compromise. I know personally I'll be pissed if I lost 13 of each type of points from my main.

This is probably one of the reasons we're not hearing about what the transition will look like. Taking away those attribute points would ultimately be meaningless, because the game would be rebalanced around the new norm, but people threw absolute temper tantrums over a perceived loss of effectiveness with the Champion System. I can only imagine how long we would see rage threads over actually losing attribute points.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

MAOofDC wrote: »

I noticed that every person who advocates getting rid of veteran levels STILL hasn't expressed their thoughts on what will happen to the 13 extra Skill and Attribute points. I mean if you're vet 14 and they make you level 50 do you just LOSE 13 of each type of points? Or do those characters keep them and have an unfair advantage over newer ones? Please explain how this would work in your Veteran levelless world view. I'm not trying to an as- here I really want to know what you feel is the best compromise. Because there would have to be some sort of compromise. I know personally I'll be pissed if I lost 13 of each type of points from my main.

This is probably one of the reasons we're not hearing about what the transition will look like. Taking away those attribute points would ultimately be meaningless, because the game would be rebalanced around the new norm, but people threw absolute temper tantrums over a perceived loss of effectiveness with the Champion System. I can only imagine how long we would see rage threads over actually losing attribute points.

The only difference being instead of a perceived loss it would be an ACTUAL loss. A loss of hit, magicka, and/or stamina points. There will also be an actually loss of skills, passives and/or morphs.

MAOofDC wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

MAOofDC wrote: »

I noticed that every person who advocates getting rid of veteran levels STILL hasn't expressed their thoughts on what will happen to the 13 extra Skill and Attribute points. I mean if you're vet 14 and they make you level 50 do you just LOSE 13 of each type of points? Or do those characters keep them and have an unfair advantage over newer ones? Please explain how this would work in your Veteran levelless world view. I'm not trying to an as- here I really want to know what you feel is the best compromise. Because there would have to be some sort of compromise. I know personally I'll be pissed if I lost 13 of each type of points from my main.

This is probably one of the reasons we're not hearing about what the transition will look like. Taking away those attribute points would ultimately be meaningless, because the game would be rebalanced around the new norm, but people threw absolute temper tantrums over a perceived loss of effectiveness with the Champion System. I can only imagine how long we would see rage threads over actually losing attribute points.

The only difference being instead of a perceived loss it would be an ACTUAL loss. A loss of hit, magicka, and/or stamina points. There will also be an actually loss of skills, passives and/or morphs.

Right. It still would have absolutely no real ramifications, since the game would change with it. But because people would actually be losing stats, they'd scream bloody murder.

I miss the days before gaming forums, when people just played what they had and didn't become armchair developers.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

MAOofDC wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

MAOofDC wrote: »

I noticed that every person who advocates getting rid of veteran levels STILL hasn't expressed their thoughts on what will happen to the 13 extra Skill and Attribute points. I mean if you're vet 14 and they make you level 50 do you just LOSE 13 of each type of points? Or do those characters keep them and have an unfair advantage over newer ones? Please explain how this would work in your Veteran levelless world view. I'm not trying to an as- here I really want to know what you feel is the best compromise. Because there would have to be some sort of compromise. I know personally I'll be pissed if I lost 13 of each type of points from my main.

This is probably one of the reasons we're not hearing about what the transition will look like. Taking away those attribute points would ultimately be meaningless, because the game would be rebalanced around the new norm, but people threw absolute temper tantrums over a perceived loss of effectiveness with the Champion System. I can only imagine how long we would see rage threads over actually losing attribute points.

The only difference being instead of a perceived loss it would be an ACTUAL loss. A loss of hit, magicka, and/or stamina points. There will also be an actually loss of skills, passives and/or morphs.

Right. It still would have absolutely no real ramifications, since the game would change with it. But because people would actually be losing stats, they'd scream bloody murder.

I miss the days before gaming forums, when people just played what they had and didn't become armchair developers.

The attribute loss would be fine because the game changed. They can nerf the NPCs to make them suitable for level 50's. The skill loss wouldn't be okay at all, I want MORE skill points not less.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

domenthechief wrote: »

I'm not sure why we shouldn't keep trying. Sorry for not being a passive observer.

Because you haven't taken a moment to consider why ZO might not be giving any clear official statements on this.

Let's just say that (and this really doesn't have to be hypothetical) the developers are currently hard at work on figuring out how they want to phase out VR and maintain a semblance of balance, tiered equipment, etc. They might, at the end of it all, figure out that entirely removing VR from the game won't work after all. Or they may make some sweeping changes to item levels. There are lots of potential ways it could play out, and providing a definitive yes or no answer when they don't know what the system will look like will only lead to more complaining.

Uh sure, but we have known about this since at least October; that was 6 months ago. If it takes them more than 6 months to just have a plan, I'm a little concerned about the future of this game.