The answer to Shield Stacking is here

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · April 2015

Armitas wrote: »

Are barrier and dragon leap excluded from the system?

I would like to see shield stacking go as well. I have in the past advocated something similar to this, the difference being barrier is major, while igneous shield and hardened ward are minor, and smaller shields like brawler, and glyphs are excluded. That was back on pts though, the more I play 1.6 the more I think differently of it.

I like the ability to fine tune my shield. My shield is based on health so when I move the slider toward more defense the offense slider moves backwards, as it should. I can customize my build to match my needs in a balanced way. Hardened ward is the opposite of that, when you move the defense slider up, the offense slider moves up with it. That doesn't seem balanced to me.

Hardened ward is really the core of the complaint about shields. Because the shield strength shares the same dps resource people are able to reach 16k shields. Stacking above that takes things to even more absurd levels, but outside of hardened ward it's far less absurd. My igneous shield, with over 40 in bastion and between 29k-31k health is around 9.5k. That puts my magicka at 18k+, I'm paying for that defense with the loss of offense as it should be. There is nothing unbalanced about that, 9k won't even cover a wrecking blow, a snipe, or a crystal fragment.

But if shields get incorporated into the major and minor system, they should not contain flat values. Flat values will completely ruin any ability to fine tune your offense and defense.

I do agree with you on that I think it would be wrong to change peoples shield values Ultimate should grand higher shields been spammable power having the major and minor systems elyld just be to change the stacking no the over all shield's effectiveness hardening is more then enough for Sorcs and Templars and Dragon Knights can incorporate their heals along with their shields for added defense

As I said early no shield values should change not all buffs are equal but they don't all stack or have the same secondary effects

technohic · April 2015

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

stonescorsa wrote: »

Im a sorc and i even say get rid of sheild stacking. I use hardened ward only to survive and iv never had a problem against all kinds of builds.

Sheild stackers are lame and just stack because they cant fight without having 100% sheilds over there health.

That's very easy to say when you have the best class shield in the game. Frankly I wouldn't mind removing multiple shields either, if I only played my sorc. My sorcerers Ward is almost 16k, it easily eats a full Wrecking Blow. I could pump it even higher if I wanted to.

In comparisons, my magicka templars Sun Shield is only 7k with the shortest shield duration in the game. It's gone is a freaking light attack these days. Same for DK, although it lasts 24 seconds, so you can use it pro-actively. If I want them to even reach 10k I have to go full health build and loose any form of dps or healing. Than there's my NB having no class shield what so ever, desperately juggling Healing Ward + Harness Magicka to stay up.

My point is, I find it funny how people think this would penalize sorcerers so much. They're ironically the only class in the game that doesn't need to stack shields in 5+ light armor.

That might be true, but templars have the best burst heal. You want an equally good ward but also keep your heals? Sorcerers have the worst class heals in the game.

Maybe wards shouldn't stack, but what about things like annulment that only protect against spell damage?

If your logic is its a choice between a good shield with the good heal for templar than my response will be that you to should not have both so should not receive heals through shields from other players.

I do not particularly like having to stack shields but when I get hit for 16k crystal shards when at the time I was at 21k spell resist, they are a necessary evil.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · April 2015

I feel like this post is achieving what need to happen a real discussion on not just about shield stacking but why it happens things like buff sun Shield (I don't play a Templers) but short timer is a clear problem here powers hitting crazy hard.

Getting to the root of the problem is the first real step to making it a fun experience for everyone no one has called for a nerf on this post just a mix of view points that hopefully will lead to a balance that all class can PvP and PvE with

Ezareth · April 2015

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

After much thought and considerations on the subject a clear and simple solution has arrived players can't stack buffs or debuffs they are all Major thing and Minor that.

Now what if powers that cast damage shields as a primary function i.e. Healing Ward, Annulment, Harden Ward, Bone Shield and Sunshield and so on constitute a major shield or Major Barrier and powers that create damage shields as a byproduct i.e. Brawler, Shield Assault, weapon enchants and synergies like Bone Shield grant minor barrier.

Sorcerers don't have to have Harden Ward nerfed all shields would behave and guard the same way they do know only. Just as you can't stack a bar of buff then drink a power pot and two shot people. Walking into a fight with three shields is ridiculous and is clearly causing discontent among the player base.

Rising the base cost and/or adding diminishing returns would cause more hatred and backlash. This is the easiest and most balanced move you can make furthermore it's the most logical next step forward Majors and Minor already apply to all of the buffs why not to a shield?

Documenting Nerf Sorc Thread #687,342

You don't even understand (what you perceive as) the problem which is why your solution to the problem can only be flawed.

In 1.5 Shield "Stacking" was the meta. In 1.6 the best players aren't doing this because it hurts more than it help. I'd consider myself one of the most difficult sorcs to kill in the game (as I should be considering how I'm built) and I never enter a battle with more than a single damage shield active. I use Healing Ward only when my health is damage as a *heal* not to stack shields, otherwise all damage is done to my hardened ward. I'm using 5 Light and 2 heavy and a Physical shield with reinforced traits BTW.

People that are complaining about damage shields simply don't understand that resource generation is off the charts. In 1.5 I couldn't cast half as many shields as I can in 1.6, I haven't been able to permacast shields before since Harness Magicka was bugged and would refill my entire mana bar with one cast.

Fix resource generation and the strength of shields as well as many other powerful abilities right now will be diminished.

Gorthax · April 2015

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

After much thought and considerations on the subject a clear and simple solution has arrived players can't stack buffs or debuffs they are all Major thing and Minor that.

Now what if powers that cast damage shields as a primary function i.e. Healing Ward, Annulment, Harden Ward, Bone Shield and Sunshield and so on constitute a major shield or Major Barrier and powers that create damage shields as a byproduct i.e. Brawler, Shield Assault, weapon enchants and synergies like Bone Shield grant minor barrier.

Sorcerers don't have to have Harden Ward nerfed all shields would behave and guard the same way they do know only. Just as you can't stack a bar of buff then drink a power pot and two shot people. Walking into a fight with three shields is ridiculous and is clearly causing discontent among the player base.

Rising the base cost and/or adding diminishing returns would cause more hatred and backlash. This is the easiest and most balanced move you can make furthermore it's the most logical next step forward Majors and Minor already apply to all of the buffs why not to a shield?

@kendellking_chaosb14_ESO I seriously HOPE you are a advocate for nerfing the crap out of perma dodge rollers......cuz it seems people are ok with perma dodge rollers, who you know DODGE EVERYTHING while having amazing damage with their WB spams, but a shield stacker?! Heaven forbid!

thelordoffelines · April 2015

Even if they implemented this you guys would still complain. You guys saw the "remove hardened ward" thread right? When I fight Stam builds I don't stack shields I continuously re apply hardened ward if I'm full health and healing ward if low. And very often do I find people who are able to break through my shield and more with one attack. If I didn't have a shield it would near one shot me (and even if I had balanced health it would still near one shot me).

Rune_Relic · April 2015

thelordoffelines wrote: »

Even if they implemented this you guys would still complain. You guys saw the "remove hardened ward" thread right? When I fight Stam builds I don't stack shields I continuously re apply hardened ward if I'm full health and healing ward if low. And very often do I find people who are able to break through my shield and more with one attack. If I didn't have a shield it would near one shot me (and even if I had balanced health it would still near one shot me).

And they have to go all out in weapon damage to do that.
Do you not see the catch 22 ?

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · April 2015

@gorthax dodge rolling will not stop channels or Mage's Wraith, radiant destruction, proximity detonation or soul assault a miss chance is not a stamina shield and to have the stamina to roll like that means high stamina pool and regen which is poor for DPS it's a stamina sustainability great for surviving not as good for killing.

@thelordoffelines builds like are brute force build with no staying power and with 15+ damage shield from the Sorcs here that is needed but that's the problem you have little armor to stop physical attacks and you can eat loads of damage very cheaply power build are necessary to counter powerful damage shields it's not fun have a pure power build had one great at first but *** poor regen it's only good for killing shields when you need 3500 weapon damage to nuke pass a shield only to hit another shield it gets real boring real fast

Gorthax · April 2015

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

@gorthax dodge rolling will not stop channels or Mage's Wraith, radiant destruction, proximity detonation or soul assault a miss chance is not a stamina shield and to have the stamina to roll like that means high stamina pool and regen which is poor for DPS it's a stamina sustainability great for surviving not as good for killing.

@thelordoffelines builds like are brute force build with no staying power and with 15+ damage shield from the Sorcs here that is needed but that's the problem you have little armor to stop physical attacks and you can eat loads of damage very cheaply power build are necessary to counter powerful damage shields it's not fun have a pure power build had one great at first but *** poor regen it's only good for killing shields when you need 3500 weapon damage to nuke pass a shield only to hit another shield it gets real boring real fast

tell that to the countless perma dodge rollers who eat through my shields, dodge all my attacks, and still kill me. Shield stacking is far from a problem. Is it annoying? Oh yea, no arguing that. Hardly a problem though. Stamina IS power. So a high resource pool of stamina + high regen is the SAME concept as shield stacking. They get their damage from stamina and weapon damage. We get ours from magicka and spell damage. Want to get around shields? Waste a mages stamina. They die pretty quick. If I know I wont win a fight, I bolt out of there. If I am fighting another sorc and they are shield stacking and the battle is going on to long...I bolt out of there.

Stamina is just as bad as magicka if built right. BOTH take the gear and stats to achieve it. Stamina being better because all that stamina cost reduction coupled with the break free cost reduction CP, stamina skill cost reduction glyphs and cp (which affects break free, dodge rolling cost) makes stamina far worse than magicka. I dont understand why people dont get that lol but hey to each their own. This games downfall will be the constant nerfs everyone wants.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · April 2015

Where in this post has anyone called for a nerf rollers work my but I get my bow out Mark target light Attack and Lethal Injection (cost next to nothing)

The problem with a max stamina and regen build is power high stamina will not grant you the power needed to burst though a shield fight forever yes but without the power to break the shield you accomplish nothing plus cloning a build like that with stamina mean you hit ok like a magic build but no shield so you better keep rolling and seeing as stamina shouldn't regen you roll light Attacks and when they stop spinning you have all your pools and they have to let theirs regen

cozmon3c_ESO · April 2015

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Where in this post has anyone called for a nerf rollers work my but I get my bow out Mark target light Attack and Lethal Injection (cost next to nothing)

The problem with a max stamina and regen build is power high stamina will not grant you the power needed to burst though a shield fight forever yes but without the power to break the shield you accomplish nothing plus cloning a build like that with stamina mean you hit ok like a magic build but no shield so you better keep rolling and seeing as stamina shouldn't regen you roll light Attacks and when they stop spinning you have all your pools and they have to let theirs regen

your built wrong. plus your playing the easiest play style in the game, sit in the background in stealth and shoot people with a bow.

Gorthax · April 2015

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Where in this post has anyone called for a nerf rollers work my but I get my bow out Mark target light Attack and Lethal Injection (cost next to nothing)

The problem with a max stamina and regen build is power high stamina will not grant you the power needed to burst though a shield fight forever yes but without the power to break the shield you accomplish nothing plus cloning a build like that with stamina mean you hit ok like a magic build but no shield so you better keep rolling and seeing as stamina shouldn't regen you roll light Attacks and when they stop spinning you have all your pools and they have to let theirs regen

no one called for nerf rollers, that was my point. So many people have a freaking issue with shields when in all reality every time I fight people get through my shields. The fact remains that dodge rolling is far worse then shield stacking. Hell just a few minutes ago one perma dodge roller was dodging everything 10 people were giving them and eventually got away because everyone just gave up.

The entire reason I brought up perma dodge rolling WB spammers is because of how much worse it is than shield stacking. Yet people crying about shields never once mention it. Like I said though, to each their own. I am bout done with this game and ZoS inability to do anything right. They got pretty close in 1.6 but then some serious issues arose. Not to mention exploiters and cheaters rising out of the ashes and nothing being done after people report report report.

cozmon3c_ESO · April 2015

Gorthax wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Where in this post has anyone called for a nerf rollers work my but I get my bow out Mark target light Attack and Lethal Injection (cost next to nothing)

The problem with a max stamina and regen build is power high stamina will not grant you the power needed to burst though a shield fight forever yes but without the power to break the shield you accomplish nothing plus cloning a build like that with stamina mean you hit ok like a magic build but no shield so you better keep rolling and seeing as stamina shouldn't regen you roll light Attacks and when they stop spinning you have all your pools and they have to let theirs regen

no one called for nerf rollers, that was my point. So many people have a freaking issue with shields when in all reality every time I fight people get through my shields. The fact remains that dodge rolling is far worse then shield stacking. Hell just a few minutes ago one perma dodge roller was dodging everything 10 people were giving them and eventually got away because everyone just gave up.

The entire reason I brought up perma dodge rolling WB spammers is because of how much worse it is than shield stacking. Yet people crying about shields never once mention it. Like I said though, to each their own. I am bout done with this game and ZoS inability to do anything right. They got pretty close in 1.6 but then some serious issues arose. Not to mention exploiters and cheaters rising out of the ashes and nothing being done after people report report report.

thats because the people whining about shields are the ones that rolly polly everywhere and WB.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · April 2015

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Where in this post has anyone called for a nerf rollers work my but I get my bow out Mark target light Attack and Lethal Injection (cost next to nothing)

The problem with a max stamina and regen build is power high stamina will not grant you the power needed to burst though a shield fight forever yes but without the power to break the shield you accomplish nothing plus cloning a build like that with stamina mean you hit ok like a magic build but no shield so you better keep rolling and seeing as stamina shouldn't regen you roll light Attacks and when they stop spinning you have all your pools and they have to let theirs regen

your built wrong. plus your playing the easiest play style in the game, sit in the background in stealth and shoot people with a bow.

yea clearly you never used a bow cause it's not that easy unless you're a complete glass canon which most archer aren't, my build is power and full cost reductions cause fighting Sorcs that stack shields and bolt away made the game a pain to play nuking from stealth became the smarter choose

You can't play with a 17m gap maker and 15k damage shield and call anything easy mode shield > blink > roll > blink

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · April 2015

Stamina regen build are annoying yes and so is WB and if you were any other class that point would have merit but 17m gap maker and 15k damage puts you way out of WB range and you have to go glass canon for that to work.

To make the point you can make a super roll build but you would hit hard and all the regen sets mean low crit so normal power and low crit you are never get though that first let alone the others.

And all power build that can blast that shield down can't fight as long

The same can't be said for Sorcs

Galalin · April 2015

I have just come to the conclusion 1.6 has *** up the whole PvP world and i don't give a *** anymore because i don't pay. ZoS doesn't know how to make PvP work and its has been evident since launch... I'm not saying its easy or claiming to have the answers... just that im done caring about what they fix because everytime they try to fix a dam thing they make this game worse... so i will continue to play for free and enjoy what i can until something half decent comes out that is p2p since and b2p/f2p games i have ever played suck when compared to p2p games.... this should have been ftp from the start.

DK SCRUB OUT

bg22 · April 2015

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Shield stacking is a problem?
Fix Stamina burst. Fix shield stacking. Problem solved.

You can't really call it burst when the only people that complain about that burst have 30k+ magic little health and full light there are many heavy armor magic sets even just a heavy chest would show a big difference but if your whole build is stacking shield to live then players will use the only skill to kill a shield and that's damage a Major and Minor buff is everywhere that stats are effected excepting for shields

The problem is, the employee's at ZoS think the way he does...

"They can still kill those 16k health sorcs with a really good combo IF they get past their shields 7-12 times and manage to land a perfect CC before they re-stack their shields... We better nerf stam burst damage."

And towards his reply; Yes shield stacking is ridiculous... It's the most broken crap I've seen in the game since launch.

Derra · April 2015

What do you guys expect a shield user to do once someone with a big sword is on his trail? Die bc light armor should not be vaible for fighting outside of zergs?

bloodenragedb14_ESO · April 2015

best answer to shield stacking is, wait for it.......stop complaining about it and learn the obvious and easy counters present ingame.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · April 2015

Derra wrote: »

What do you guys expect a shield user to do once someone with a big sword is on his trail? Die bc light armor should not be vaible for fighting outside of zergs?

Lose and whole unreplaceable 6% magic regen and cost reductions and wear heavy chest and legs it's not hard with post to nerf WB the strongest counter to Shields pushing for a hard nerf with the fact that Sorcs got snipe nerfed it's clear WB is going to get cut to hell so you can blink around with 15k and 15k damage shield and never die cause banlaced

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

best answer to shield stacking is, wait for it.......stop complaining about it and learn the obvious and easy counters present ingame.

So I take it you have no problem with Snipe or Wrecking Blow for all the complains Sorcs have how weak they are they seem to ecape more eat more damage and forum rage with a 15 shield with high DPS is not enough to win

Galalin · April 2015

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

best answer to shield stacking is, wait for it.......stop complaining about it and learn the obvious and easy counters present ingame.

Ok mr. best answer... im curious now.... what are your obvious and easy counters? This should be easy if they are so abvious and easy as you say.... lets hear it!

I fight sorcs a ton and manage to win most fights although a great sorc is very difficult to beat if not almost impossible as they will get away.

Lets hear the obvious easy mode method!!!

DK SCRUB OUT

Rylana · April 2015

Panda244 wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

What you are failing to address however is high sustainability means you can't burst through a 9K damage shield and high DPS mean that if you can't drop them to execute range then you die shield don't take crit damage just base killing entire builds from the start.

Now add to that the fact the more magic ups your spell damage, regen, and shield strength you have offense of an defense of all in one resource so yes loss 2-3 cast but you grant pure immunity from 9K damage from a cheap damage shield and that's just Harning Ward

If it was a simple L2P problem amidst the raging Nerf Nerf Nerf post then I could see your point but it's a common sense fix to a clear oversight

It's not an oversight.

Magicka builds don't have burst, they have sustain, and can survive via shield stacking.

Stamina builds have burst and not a whole lot of sustain, and can survive. (If you spec into the roll dodge continuum)

All builds have counters, shield stacking builds are easily countered by a stun, followed by stamina burst. Dead shield stacker.

Stamina builds that roll dodge continuously are countered by abilities that "lock" on target and go through block, such as curse, and magicka detonation.

Problem solved.

For my DK, I've found the middle ground, I don't have much burst damage, burst damage can't kill me, and shield stacking isn't a problem for me to get through.

"Fix" shield-stacking and you BREAK Sorcerers.
"Fix" Burst and you BREAK stamina.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Magicka builds don´t have burst? Magicka NB and Sorcs do, not sure about Templar and DK.

, DKs have hard hitting executes,

wat