Dragon Born

starkerealm · April 2015

Shunravi wrote: »

My standing theory about the entire inerregnum is that it is a dragonbreak. The regaining of controll of time being marked by the rise of Talos as a dragonborn. And as the event in itself essentially defines the end of the interregnum, there is little chance of a dragonborn coming into being during the period.

Yeah, the soul burst not being mentioned in previous lore and Cadwell's quests lend a lot of credence to the idea that the game is taking place in a Dragon Break.

lihentian wrote: »

though we might be able to become a dragonborn.. we should be able to use dragon shout.. basically anyone can use shout with many years of training.. right? none of the gray beard are dragonborn.. so is ufric stormcloak

I minor nitpick, the word you're looking for is "nor" not "so." So, that should read, "nor is Ulfric Stormcloak."

Anyway, going back and addressing that. No. Akatosh can make someone a Dragonborn... somehow. But a player character can't become one. If you've advanced through the very early game, you should realize the events of ESO were set in motion because someone attempted to do just that, opening the way for the Daedric invasion... and yes, I'm being vague here.

It's possible the other divines, or even the daedric princes, could impart a similar demi-apotheosis, but I'm guessing. There's no firm evidence either way.

Now, anyone can theoretically learn to shout. Being Dragonborn just... well, being Dragonborn fundamentally alters the way magic affects you in a great many ways. But, one of the most prominent examples are the shouts. Dragonborn can learn them quickly, and then fuel them easily. Non-Dragonborn can do neither. Ulfric spent years with the Greybeards and came away with two shouts (Unrelenting Force and Disarm). The Greybeards each know 6-8. Also, remember, there's a throwaway line about how the other Greybeards can't speak anymore? It looks like somewhere around 7 shouts, a non-dragonborn actually looses the ability to converse normally. And, 8 shouts seems to require at least decades of work and dedication, if not centuries.

If we went by the current game system, it would look something like, a 5k CP unlock for each word in a shout, and after you'd learned your 21st word, you could no longer initiate dialog with people... that really doesn't sound fun.

Also, without a ready supply of dragon souls, even a dragonborn would be hard pressed to actually learn the words they found.

So, yes, it can happen, but don't take that to mean it's a power your character should have access to.

Anvos · April 2015

ZOS_GaryA wrote: »

Hi @illogicbh,

Players will not be able to use shouts, as dragonborn are extremely rare throughout Elder Scrolls history.

Actually regular people can learn shouts though only a few shouts, as seen by Ulfric, the monks at the temple in Skyrim, and the ESO history that says there used to be a whole warrior order of them before Parthanax's views limited the teaching.

Plus the recent exposure to the Akaviri Kai would likely reignite interest in them, not to mention the existence of the Kai throws even more into doubt that dragonborn does anything but let shouts be learned quickly (strictly speaking of shouts not the other stuff).

Not saying they should be in game but just stating why that is inaccurate as the reason why the player likely won't.

JD2013 · April 2015

You can't even get up to High Hrothgar on the map, so . . .

No. No Dragonborn until Talos. No learning shouts. It's because of Varen Aquilarious trying to become a Dragonborn that Nirn is in this whole planemeld mess anyway.

Carnagan · April 2015

Lionxoft wrote: »

You don't need to be Dragonborn in order to shout, @ZOS_GaryA .

True, but a non-Dragonborn needs to spend YEARS to learn a single word. Not conducive to actual play.

nerevarine1138 · April 2015

Why do threads about this keep coming up?

1. This was a mechanic specific to Skyrim. You might as well complain about not being able to become Sheogorath.
2. Dragonborn are extremely rare.
3. If you want to learn how to perform thu'um, then ask them to introduce a mechanic where interested players have to spend years in meditation at High Hrothgar on just a single shout.

It's not supported by the lore. It's not a mechanic that's universal to Elder Scrolls games. It's something from Skyrim and Skyrim only. If you want to be Dragonborn, that is the game you want to play.

Genomic · April 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Why do threads about this keep coming up?

It's not supported by the lore. It's not a mechanic that's universal to Elder Scrolls games. It's something from Skyrim and Skyrim only. If you want to be Dragonborn, that is the game you want to play.

In another thread about ESO breaking lore, many people suggested that whatever ZOS decides is lore, becomes lore. So in their minds at least if ZOS decides to add dragon shouts or allows you to become Dragon Born, then it is valid (I don't fall in that camp though, but you as a serial ZOS apologist might).

nerevarine1138 · April 2015

Genomic wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Why do threads about this keep coming up?

It's not supported by the lore. It's not a mechanic that's universal to Elder Scrolls games. It's something from Skyrim and Skyrim only. If you want to be Dragonborn, that is the game you want to play.

In another thread about ESO breaking lore, many people suggested that whatever ZOS decides is lore, becomes lore. So in their minds at least if ZOS decides to add dragon shouts or allows you to become Dragon Born, then it is valid (I don't fall in that camp though, but you as a serial ZOS apologist might).

Cute.

This is well-established, specific lore that is concretely laid out in Skyrim, not a murky period of Tamriel history. It's also a game-specific mechanic. So there's a massive difference.

Forestd16b14_ESO · April 2015

sylviermoone wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

.. any one else hear that? I think it was The Elder Scrolls lore back breaking.

Where's my LOL?!

Lost just like the heart of Lorkan or the amulet of kings after Thran stole it :-p .

firstdecan · April 2015

lihentian wrote: »

though we might be able to become a dragonborn.. we should be able to use dragon shout.. basically anyone can use shout with many years of training.. right? none of the gray beard are dragonborn.. so is ufric stormcloak

But it takes years of training for the non-dragonborn. ZoS will probably introduce dragon shouts as the post champion progression system, only attainable after you have 3600 champion points.

Raash · April 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Genomic wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Why do threads about this keep coming up?

It's not supported by the lore. It's not a mechanic that's universal to Elder Scrolls games. It's something from Skyrim and Skyrim only. If you want to be Dragonborn, that is the game you want to play.

In another thread about ESO breaking lore, many people suggested that whatever ZOS decides is lore, becomes lore. So in their minds at least if ZOS decides to add dragon shouts or allows you to become Dragon Born, then it is valid (I don't fall in that camp though, but you as a serial ZOS apologist might).

Cute.

This is well-established, specific lore that is concretely laid out in Skyrim, not a murky period of Tamriel history. It's also a game-specific mechanic. So there's a massive difference.

There are ways to go around such things tho. Stuff as timetravel comes to mind. If enough players want to be dragonborn then it could be done.

Sebastian102 · April 2015

There may be alternative ways of bekoming dragonborn, a dragonborn is a body of a mortal whit the soul of a dragon who is capable of absorbing other dragons souls. In the skyrim expansion dawnguard it was required that the dragonborn bekame partualy soul traped in order to enter the soul carim sugesting that it is posible to trap a dragonborns soul and sinse a dragonborn can absorb dragonsouls it is posible to move a dragon soul from one body to another.

All we nead is a unvoluntery dragonborn or dragon and alot of necromantic expertise and inovation.

nerevarine1138 · April 2015

Raash wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Genomic wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Why do threads about this keep coming up?

It's not supported by the lore. It's not a mechanic that's universal to Elder Scrolls games. It's something from Skyrim and Skyrim only. If you want to be Dragonborn, that is the game you want to play.

In another thread about ESO breaking lore, many people suggested that whatever ZOS decides is lore, becomes lore. So in their minds at least if ZOS decides to add dragon shouts or allows you to become Dragon Born, then it is valid (I don't fall in that camp though, but you as a serial ZOS apologist might).

Cute.

This is well-established, specific lore that is concretely laid out in Skyrim, not a murky period of Tamriel history. It's also a game-specific mechanic. So there's a massive difference.

There are ways to go around such things tho. Stuff as timetravel comes to mind. If enough players want to be dragonborn then it could be done.

Sebastian102 wrote: »

There may be alternative ways of bekoming dragonborn, a dragonborn is a body of a mortal whit the soul of a dragon who is capable of absorbing other dragons souls. In the skyrim expansion dawnguard it was required that the dragonborn bekame partualy soul traped in order to enter the soul carim sugesting that it is posible to trap a dragonborns soul and sinse a dragonborn can absorb dragonsouls it is posible to move a dragon soul from one body to another.

All we nead is a unvoluntery dragonborn or dragon and alot of necromantic expertise and inovation.

There are a few problems with both these ideas.

For starters, time travel doesn't make you Dragonborn or cut down on the time it takes you to learn shouts. It would just put you in a different place in time.

As to the weird idea of transitive dragon souls: that's not how soul gems work. You can't just take on someone else's soul.

Pendrillion · April 2015

I feel like the guy should roll a Dragon Knight... In lore and expression it kind of is similar to the abilities you get as Dovahkiin. Even not so much OP as in Skyrim...

WillhelmBlack · April 2015

DK vs Dragon Born. DK easy. Reflective Scales, chains then Whip until golden brown.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · April 2015

Some of this has been repeated...but I can source most of it so here you go:

Firstly, we can ALREADY Shout in-game, they just don't call it that. Our friends from Tsaesci, who became the Dragonguard of Reman, who will become the Blades, used the same magic, they just called it the kiai. (Incidentally this isn't new; this has been in the lore since Morrowind.) In the time of ESO, their Grandmaster decided to spread the use of this magic as far and wide as possible by teaching anyone willing to learn so long as they would teach others (which effort we know turned out to be futile, and may be an additional reason the Fourth Era Greybeards don't look kindly on the Fourth Era Blades, but I digress) and these people became Dragon Knights. (See also here and here.) Ergo, if you have a character who's a Dragon Knight, you have a character who can Shout.

And before someone protests, 'but it takes the Greybeards decades to do that!' remember that the Greybeards only use the Thu'um to revere the gods, or in times of great need, and not otherwise, ergo they probably could manage to learn it quicker than several decades if they practiced more—every OTHER skill in the Elder Scrolls gets better faster when you use it more. This is, incidentally, supported by a journal in Skyrim—the Voice master they call up during the siege of Forelhost is described as 'young' and a 'brash lad.' Ergo, it CAN be done, the Greybeards just don't do it because they're mostly pacifists. (And that may have contributed to their managing to not get wiped out before the Fourth Era, so...good for them I guess.)

But no, you can't be Dragonborn, because remember being Dragonborn is a trait of your soul—and one of those Daedric Princes would have at noticed that, what with some of them having been in possession of it. Also, you'd be able to wear the Amulet of Kings, which you can't during the game. Also also, becoming Emperor/Emperess would end the Planemeld if you lit the fires in the Imperial City, which would pop the main quest of ESO like a balloon. There are no Dragons in-game yet who need to be perma-killed and you can be Emperor/Emperess without being Dragonborn, so don't let it bother you.

TL:DR: You can already Shout, but you can't be Dragonborn.

starkerealm · April 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

It's not supported by the lore. It's not a mechanic that's universal to Elder Scrolls games. It's something from Skyrim and Skyrim only. If you want to be Dragonborn, that is the game you want to play.

It's funny that you should be the one to say that. Given there's a fairly well established theory in the lore that the Nerevarine was also a Dragonborn. I've never found the argument particularly compelling, but it is out there.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

As to the weird idea of transitive dragon souls: that's not how soul gems work. You can't just take on someone else's soul.

I've always had the vague impression that dragon souls simply weren't subject to soul trap. Either because the spell doesn't apply to them properly, or because you couldn't obtain a soul gem that would actually hold one. The scene in Dawnguard doesn't really disprove either of these ideas.

nerevarine1138 · April 2015

@WhiteCoatSyndrome I like the links. Has there been any writing about the exact relationship of the kiai to the thu'um? Are they exactly the same? Or are they just related in that they're both forms of using powerful shouts?

starkerealm wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

It's not supported by the lore. It's not a mechanic that's universal to Elder Scrolls games. It's something from Skyrim and Skyrim only. If you want to be Dragonborn, that is the game you want to play.

It's funny that you should be the one to say that. Given there's a fairly well established theory in the lore that the Nerevarine was also a Dragonborn. I've never found the argument particularly compelling, but it is out there.

I've never heard that theory brought up, but it's a particularly flimsy one. It's based entirely on one line of prophecy, and it's impossible to verify.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · April 2015

@nerevarine1138: That was it, mostly, though as the Tsaesci-who-became-the-Dragonguard made such a big deal out of Reman and apparently recognized him as Dragonborn on just hearing his voice (like the Greybeards did with the player character in Skyrim), and Mysterious Akavir mentioned that the Tsaesci tried to 'eat' all the Dragons, given that we know the Dragonborn can eat Dragon souls, I think it's a lot more likely that the kiai and the Thu'um are the same thing than otherwise. (And it seems to me the Tsaesci had some Dragonborn of their own at some point, in addition to the Dragons, but that's theory at this point.)

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

It's funny that you should be the one to say that. Given there's a fairly well established theory in the lore that the Nerevarine was also a Dragonborn. I've never found the argument particularly compelling, but it is out there.

I've never heard that theory brought up, but it's a particularly flimsy one. It's based entirely on one line of prophecy, and it's impossible to verify.

I have heard that theory but I have no idea which line of what prophecy. Is it this one? Because it seems to me that's not what it's saying, so I'm not sure.

nerevarine1138 · April 2015

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

@nerevarine1138: That was it, mostly, though as the Tsaesci-who-became-the-Dragonguard made such a big deal out of Reman and apparently recognized him as Dragonborn on just hearing his voice (like the Greybeards did with the player character in Skyrim), and Mysterious Akavir mentioned that the Tsaesci tried to 'eat' all the Dragons, given that we know the Dragonborn can eat Dragon souls, I think it's a lot more likely that the kiai and the Thu'um are the same thing than otherwise. (And it seems to me the Tsaesci had some Dragonborn of their own at some point, in addition to the Dragons, but that's theory at this point.)

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

It's funny that you should be the one to say that. Given there's a fairly well established theory in the lore that the Nerevarine was also a Dragonborn. I've never found the argument particularly compelling, but it is out there.

I've never heard that theory brought up, but it's a particularly flimsy one. It's based entirely on one line of prophecy, and it's impossible to verify.

I have heard that theory but I have no idea which line of what prophecy. Is it this one? Because it seems to me that's not what it's saying, so I'm not sure.

That makes sense for the shouts. I've never been that interested in the Akaviri stuff, so I never looked in to it.

And that is the line of prophecy that people have used to make the argument that the Nerevarine was also Dragonborn (at least according to what I found online).

starkerealm · April 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

@nerevarine1138: That was it, mostly, though as the Tsaesci-who-became-the-Dragonguard made such a big deal out of Reman and apparently recognized him as Dragonborn on just hearing his voice (like the Greybeards did with the player character in Skyrim), and Mysterious Akavir mentioned that the Tsaesci tried to 'eat' all the Dragons, given that we know the Dragonborn can eat Dragon souls, I think it's a lot more likely that the kiai and the Thu'um are the same thing than otherwise. (And it seems to me the Tsaesci had some Dragonborn of their own at some point, in addition to the Dragons, but that's theory at this point.)

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

It's funny that you should be the one to say that. Given there's a fairly well established theory in the lore that the Nerevarine was also a Dragonborn. I've never found the argument particularly compelling, but it is out there.

I've never heard that theory brought up, but it's a particularly flimsy one. It's based entirely on one line of prophecy, and it's impossible to verify.

I have heard that theory but I have no idea which line of what prophecy. Is it this one? Because it seems to me that's not what it's saying, so I'm not sure.

That makes sense for the shouts. I've never been that interested in the Akaviri stuff, so I never looked in to it.

And that is the line of prophecy that people have used to make the argument that the Nerevarine was also Dragonborn (at least according to what I found online).

Yeah, I think that line is what the theory hangs on. Like I said, I've never found it particularly compelling, since it reads to me like the Nerevarine has been marked by a Dragonborn (Uriel VII selecting them to be released), not that a dragonborn would be marked by distant stars (I assume, "born under a certain sign" or the ring of Moon and Star). But it doesn't change the irony of you being the person to say, "yeah, Skyrim's the only game where you can play a Dragonborn."

starkerealm · April 2015

Wait, why did this thread get sunk?

nerevarine1138 · April 2015

starkerealm wrote: »

Wait, why did this thread get sunk?

If I had to guess, it would be because the OP had his question answered long ago and that we're now just debating minutiae of lore.

starkerealm wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

@nerevarine1138: That was it, mostly, though as the Tsaesci-who-became-the-Dragonguard made such a big deal out of Reman and apparently recognized him as Dragonborn on just hearing his voice (like the Greybeards did with the player character in Skyrim), and Mysterious Akavir mentioned that the Tsaesci tried to 'eat' all the Dragons, given that we know the Dragonborn can eat Dragon souls, I think it's a lot more likely that the kiai and the Thu'um are the same thing than otherwise. (And it seems to me the Tsaesci had some Dragonborn of their own at some point, in addition to the Dragons, but that's theory at this point.)

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

It's funny that you should be the one to say that. Given there's a fairly well established theory in the lore that the Nerevarine was also a Dragonborn. I've never found the argument particularly compelling, but it is out there.

I've never heard that theory brought up, but it's a particularly flimsy one. It's based entirely on one line of prophecy, and it's impossible to verify.

I have heard that theory but I have no idea which line of what prophecy. Is it this one? Because it seems to me that's not what it's saying, so I'm not sure.

That makes sense for the shouts. I've never been that interested in the Akaviri stuff, so I never looked in to it.

And that is the line of prophecy that people have used to make the argument that the Nerevarine was also Dragonborn (at least according to what I found online).

Yeah, I think that line is what the theory hangs on. Like I said, I've never found it particularly compelling, since it reads to me like the Nerevarine has been marked by a Dragonborn (Uriel VII selecting them to be released), not that a dragonborn would be marked by distant stars (I assume, "born under a certain sign" or the ring of Moon and Star). But it doesn't change the irony of you being the person to say, "yeah, Skyrim's the only game where you can play a Dragonborn."

And I still don't see irony in it. Unless you believe a particularly flimsy fan theory, there's no reason to believe that you play a Dragonborn character in Morrowind. Hence, my statement: the only Elder Scrolls game where you play as a Dragonborn is Skyrim.

Aistis1990 · November 2016

Many characters here are Dragon Borns , but since Alduin is still in excile and noone have learned a shout noone releases true potential. Still I wonder whey in ESO Draugrs aren't using Fus-ro-dah.