Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Minnesinger wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Caladriegan wrote: »

Well, let's see. You're fighting two factions at the same time who are intent on your destruction. Do you, A, sortie repeatedly and get destroyed over and over? Or, B, hunker down and absorb the punishment behind the walls of your keep until you wear down the numbers?

Which seems smarter to you?

It's all well and good to cry about the "invincible" numerical advantage that EP has until you realize there are two factions trying to defeat them.

This is all well and good except for when you do this, the entire campaign bogs down because you force everything into one damn keep. I mean do we REALLY need all three pop locked factions in the exact same place?

You let the entire rest of the map fall, sometimes with no resistance, just to turtle up all of prime time. There is no "wearing down" its logging out because of 1. Boredom. 2. Frustrating lag.

Go attack something, its not like you NEED the entire faction to defend something.

Going to call shenanigans on this.

No one's forced to attack Arrius when red's turtled in it. They choose to.

You want to spread the fighting out? Go push emperor while blue tries for the scrolls, or vice versa. Wait at the gates for one faction to succeed or fail. Arrius yesterday, was fine lagwise with just EP and AD there. When DC showed up the server threw up on itself. The moment the second inner went down, every siege went EP had stopped responding.

Until you get over the failed strategy of 'helping enable the lagbomb', the mounds of AD / DC pouring into that keep are just as much to blame as EP.

As someone who was playing on Thorn yesterday, it's also an outright exaggeration that EP was leaving keeps intentionally undefended. Constant back caps are being done to pull EP defenders out of forward keeps, which is why Arrius is the one keep that remains at the end of the day.

Right, because you know the moment yellow/blue start fighting over the ring, the boot is off the neck of red to explode out and zerg down brk, chalman, and so on.

I get that its a solid strat to turtle a keep, but EP has always done this. They let the whole map fall to one point so its either fight each other and let red out of their box (when red is in first, so red MUST be the primary goal), or lag out.

In the past this wasnt terrible, because lag was moderate. Nowadays its just a joke.

I like how taking back home keeps is now 'exploding out'.

And it wasn't long ago, say back during October-November, that I remember the whole population of AD sitting in Faregyl night after night and if anyone even attempted to approach that keep, the server lagged to hell. Anytime you knock a faction back to a single keep and then try to use two other factions working in concert to shoehorn them out, it's going to lag. It's always lagged. It's lagged like that since Wabbajack. Letting that be your strategy to taking down red is not helping with the lag (or really to take Arrius either, the defender always has an advantage in those situations).

Also, I don't feel the use of absolutes is appropriate (as in, MUST hit red -- you're wrong, imo). I've played GW2 and enough of this game to know how the AvAvA scoreboard works. If a faction is working completely within its own self interests, it hits the Alliance directly above it in points on the scoreboard to advance itself from 3rd to 2nd to 1st in that order. In GW2 (at least when I played) it regularly rotated which servers were facing each other and this generally lent to self-interested actions with fewer long standing alliances.

In an AvAvA map without the politics, AD would be regularly hitting DC to try to pull itself out of the basement and DC would be trying to fend off AD while hitting EP. AD hitting EP (besides reclaiming home keeps -- I never begrudge that) would be a much less efficient method of pushing them out of the basement and into 2nd as each point taken from DC counts double (one less that DC earns and one more that AD earns). DC seems to understand this and does an excellent job suppressing Roebeck and Brindle and Nickel (effectively immunizing their home keeps from AD assault) while tightly controlling any AD scrolls they steal from EP. This leads to the vast points disparity on Thornblade currently. DC made it a match while AD smashed their faces into an inefficient brick wall that netted them little gains and cratered their points potential.

I remember having conversations with the EP GMs back when first coming to TB and AD was the constant night capper. As much as we disliked the AD faction, we still wanted to move from 3rd place to 2nd more than we wanted to stop AD from winning (another) campaign.

What you want out of the campaign is your decision.

Don´t worry about AD nor DC it is EP that is the problem. The nightcapping hasn´t stopped but it is EP. The population gap is still existing, but now it is EP with overwhelming numbers. Maybe time to reroll a DC or AD toon? I somehow remember the threads you made or at least strongly supported back in those says when AD was the main force in pvp.

Instead of giving us instruction how to pvp, focus on EP. I am in the opinion that AD and DC should focus on EP. Just to p*** them off cause in the end it isn´t even worth doing anything else. The result of the campaign is won by these "nighcapping zergs" and better not pay too much attention to such trivia matters. Best we can do is to enjoy of pvp. This goal is best achieved by trolling EP.

PvP isn't strategy. I'm talking about AvAvA, not the ability to kill someone. If your response to my conversation about the strategies being pursued is 'don't worry about us', then you don't actually have anything substantive to talk about. I'm more than capable of observing and opining. 'Trolling' the opposition isn't a winner of a strategy, as I pointed out, and is in fact what helped crater AD's points so hard they didn't even have a chance of 2nd last time around on TB. But you go on being a troll, and DC and EP will both continue to treat AD's keeps/scrolls as a point repository to dip into when they need to try to catch up to the other faction. At least you're having fun, right?

As for the population imbalance / nightcapping, it is why I both a) took a three month hiatus from the game -- in hopes it would sort itself out, and b) am no longer homed on Thornblade. I will gladly farm there during and around prime time, but I'm not going to go about pushing the map or leading a group. I spent the bulk of last night restoring EP's home keeps and scrolls on Azura's Star, where EP is woefully underrepresented on the map typically.

Caladriegan wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Caladriegan wrote: »

Well, let's see. You're fighting two factions at the same time who are intent on your destruction. Do you, A, sortie repeatedly and get destroyed over and over? Or, B, hunker down and absorb the punishment behind the walls of your keep until you wear down the numbers?

Which seems smarter to you?

It's all well and good to cry about the "invincible" numerical advantage that EP has until you realize there are two factions trying to defeat them.

This is all well and good except for when you do this, the entire campaign bogs down because you force everything into one damn keep. I mean do we REALLY need all three pop locked factions in the exact same place?

You let the entire rest of the map fall, sometimes with no resistance, just to turtle up all of prime time. There is no "wearing down" its logging out because of 1. Boredom. 2. Frustrating lag.

Go attack something, its not like you NEED the entire faction to defend something.

Going to call shenanigans on this.

No one's forced to attack Arrius when red's turtled in it. They choose to.

You want to spread the fighting out? Go push emperor while blue tries for the scrolls, or vice versa. Wait at the gates for one faction to succeed or fail. Arrius yesterday, was fine lagwise with just EP and AD there. When DC showed up the server threw up on itself. The moment the second inner went down, every siege went EP had stopped responding.

Until you get over the failed strategy of 'helping enable the lagbomb', the mounds of AD / DC pouring into that keep are just as much to blame as EP.

As someone who was playing on Thorn yesterday, it's also an outright exaggeration that EP was leaving keeps intentionally undefended. Constant back caps are being done to pull EP defenders out of forward keeps, which is why Arrius is the one keep that remains at the end of the day.

Right, because you know the moment yellow/blue start fighting over the ring, the boot is off the neck of red to explode out and zerg down brk, chalman, and so on.

I get that its a solid strat to turtle a keep, but EP has always done this. They let the whole map fall to one point so its either fight each other and let red out of their box (when red is in first, so red MUST be the primary goal), or lag out.

In the past this wasnt terrible, because lag was moderate. Nowadays its just a joke.

We don't turtle because we want to. We turtle because AD and DC are intent on pushing us at the same time. So we can either fall back and protect our scrolls or sortie out and lose them but we're not as stupid as you seem to think we are. And that's when the wearing you down comes into play. Either we kill you or you get bored and when that happens to the point that we can come out and start taking back territory, we do.