The problem is the AD guilds that came to Chillrend just brought their lag with them. I never had any instances of not being able to use my abilities, etc until about the time they all showed up..GG.

Chillrend actually had a very balanced thing going on, and all the AD guilds from Thorn ruined it.

Those who went to Chill were spillovers from Thornblade that wanted to get away from that garbage going on in Thornblade, but that don't seem possible as Haderus was really fun for about a month until folksruined it, and now the same thing is happening to Chillrend.

I shouldn't expect anything less. Probably, the only way this will ever get fixed is if AOE has friendly fire in Cyrodiil. Meaning teamamtes that are in range take full damage and you can kill your teammates spamming that nonsense.

Also, Meteor shouldn't be able to be used inside keeps, it looks ridiclious to see a meteor magically just appear inside with no hole in the roof at all, I mean where did it come from? if it came from the sky where is the hole in the roof? LOL it would be simple for them to disable meteor indoors just like they disable placing siege on non-flat areas.

I still think adding friendly fire to AOE and AOE ulty such as meteor puts an end to this garbage...go ahead spam your AOE, while also killing your teammates. Add player collision and were money.

woodsro wrote: »

I still think adding friendly fire to AOE and AOE ulty such as meteor puts an end to this garbage...go ahead spam your AOE, while also killing your teammates. Add player collision and were money.

You would add more server computations to an already deeply strained server?

Part of the reason WHO's RvR degenerated into a laggy mess was the collision detection. They had to rebuild entire keeps to allow more access into the higher rooms so that fewer collisions would happen.

That whole video shows why people suck.

The video is outdated. I see some names who don´t play anymore. Are you trying to make a point of something?

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

I still think adding friendly fire to AOE and AOE ulty such as meteor puts an end to this garbage...go ahead spam your AOE, while also killing your teammates. Add player collision and were money.

You would add more server computations to an already deeply strained server?

Part of the reason WHO's RvR degenerated into a laggy mess was the collision detection. They had to rebuild entire keeps to allow more access into the higher rooms so that fewer collisions would happen.

yeah thats true you got a point their Agrippa.

Maybe if they could fix the siege not working in the lag or something. Siege is effective against this stuff when you can actually use it and put it down. Sometimes it won't even let you put it down, and if it lets you put it down, you can't use it.

Streamlining server performance and getting it so siege was functional in laggy situations would go a long, long way to helping out. Anytime you make the server work better, you're helping, and siege on those huge stacks would help break them up and force them to either a) spread out or b) go back to respawn, which spreads them out.

Wouldnt solve anything other than stack a tonne of AoE damage calcs on top of the already overloaded damage calcs.
As far as I am concerned their damage calcs have reached saturation point..so they just build on the server until the backlog is cleared...or the server crashes/kicks everyone.

You aint gonna fix that until you remove the backlog from building in the first place.
ie. limit queue damage for every player and drop the excess damage.... or lower the layer upon layer upon layer of secondary calcs and tests.

All they seem to do is make combat ever more in depth convoluted and complex.
What they should be doing is streamlining the whole process.
God knows how the expect to extend it in the future.

This video is as crap as the ones AD ppl put up "proving" that EP guilds lag the server on purpose, and it looks the exact same.
What I saw in this clip... two very large groups of AD and EP (notice all the EP people not in the group) spamming AOE for all they're worth to try to take/defend a keep in lag - business as usual.
Also, this is not recent, some of those players haven't been on in over a week, and it looks pre-patch as well.
Actually, I don't think it's even on Chillrend. Based on the people there, their ranks in the clip, and the timing, I would say this is Thornblade.
I like you guys, I like your guild, but this was uncalled for.
Maybe we went to Chillrend because we don't like fighting lag wars, ever think of that?

so THIS is what the most competitive server is all about? THIS is what the "only campaign that matters" is all about?

pathetic.

Huntler wrote: »

Methuselah wrote: »

Because they can't even win lag wars. Nothing new, just one of hundreds of the same crap.


https://youtu.be/el1qTKuCwX8

Why did you post a video that is at least a month and a half old since its pre 1.6? It seems like in this thread you are implying this is recent..... Pretty disingenuous. And if anything you are implying that its AD causing that lag when EP are committing the same acts that cause the problem?



Propaganda post is bad.

edit: Watched it again, the video is even more disingenuous when you realize the OP has friendly health bars turned OFF which makes it much harder to see the red numbers (you can tell at the beginning there are many red around him with no health bars) so in the actual fight where there is lag you have trouble telling how many red there are (other than the near full raid the OP is in), but given you seen plenty of non health bar non yellow tagged people... I think this video is trying to imply AD vastly outnumbers EP which just isn't true.

woodsro wrote: »

The problem is the AD guilds that came to Chillrend just brought their lag with them. I never had any instances of not being able to use my abilities, etc until about the time they all showed up..GG.

Chillrend actually had a very balanced thing going on, and all the AD guilds from Thorn ruined it.

Those who went to Chill were spillovers from Thornblade that wanted to get away from that garbage going on in Thornblade, but that don't seem possible as Haderus was really fun for about a month until folksruined it, and now the same thing is happening to Chillrend.

I shouldn't expect anything less. Probably, the only way this will ever get fixed is if AOE has friendly fire in Cyrodiil. Meaning teamamtes that are in range take full damage and you can kill your teammates spamming that nonsense.

Also, Meteor shouldn't be able to be used inside keeps, it looks ridiclious to see a meteor magically just appear inside with no hole in the roof at all, I mean where did it come from? if it came from the sky where is the hole in the roof? LOL it would be simple for them to disable meteor indoors just like they disable placing siege on non-flat areas.

AD guilds? the AD guilds that switched to Chill was over a month ago.... no AD guilds switched when the lag started happening this week.... so.... what world/bubble are you living in?

He never said in his post that AD was doing something wrong or that EP was better or that EP had few numbers compared to AD or that EP didn't use aoe abilities. You are, ONCE AGAIN, building facts to falsify the interpretation of the OP.

The only thing this video shows is that AD does EXACTLY the same thing as EP and no matter WHEN it happened and WHERE it happened, what we have to keep in mind here is that no matter the amount of hate threads toward EP lagging up the server, AD does exactly the same thing when they run organized groups in Cyrodiil.

I don't care about your third party softwares and what you heard once in a video recording of IR's TS of people shouting to spam aoe to lag up the server. I play with them on a regular basis and there is no such thing going on. They are as legit as any other group out there.

And for that guy who said that all those AD guilds have been fighting in Chillrend for the past 3 campaigns without any major problems until that EP guild showd up, it only proves that AD had almost no resistance during those 3 campaigns from anyone organized spamming aoe abilities. As soon as a certain organized group of EP moved to Chillrend and brought some real challenge (AOE VS AOE) in the battlefield, plus the amount of new players and old players coming back to the game with the recent changes to B2P, it created the performance issues we are all experimenting today.

It is not the fault of anyone in particular, it is the combination of all factions fighting against each other creating the latency issues. Especially when everyone has either impulse / steel tornado and other aoe abilities that create alot of calculation process on the server.

Huntler wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Methuselah wrote: »

Because they can't even win lag wars. Nothing new, just one of hundreds of the same crap.


https://youtu.be/el1qTKuCwX8

Why did you post a video that is at least a month and a half old since its pre 1.6? It seems like in this thread you are implying this is recent..... Pretty disingenuous. And if anything you are implying that its AD causing that lag when EP are committing the same acts that cause the problem?



Propaganda post is bad.

edit: Watched it again, the video is even more disingenuous when you realize the OP has friendly health bars turned OFF which makes it much harder to see the red numbers (you can tell at the beginning there are many red around him with no health bars) so in the actual fight where there is lag you have trouble telling how many red there are (other than the near full raid the OP is in), but given you seen plenty of non health bar non yellow tagged people... I think this video is trying to imply AD vastly outnumbers EP which just isn't true.

woodsro wrote: »

The problem is the AD guilds that came to Chillrend just brought their lag with them. I never had any instances of not being able to use my abilities, etc until about the time they all showed up..GG.

Chillrend actually had a very balanced thing going on, and all the AD guilds from Thorn ruined it.

Those who went to Chill were spillovers from Thornblade that wanted to get away from that garbage going on in Thornblade, but that don't seem possible as Haderus was really fun for about a month until folksruined it, and now the same thing is happening to Chillrend.

I shouldn't expect anything less. Probably, the only way this will ever get fixed is if AOE has friendly fire in Cyrodiil. Meaning teamamtes that are in range take full damage and you can kill your teammates spamming that nonsense.

Also, Meteor shouldn't be able to be used inside keeps, it looks ridiclious to see a meteor magically just appear inside with no hole in the roof at all, I mean where did it come from? if it came from the sky where is the hole in the roof? LOL it would be simple for them to disable meteor indoors just like they disable placing siege on non-flat areas.

AD guilds? the AD guilds that switched to Chill was over a month ago.... no AD guilds switched when the lag started happening this week.... so.... what world/bubble are you living in?

He never said in his post that AD was doing something wrong or that EP was better or that EP had few numbers compared to AD or that EP didn't use aoe abilities. You are, ONCE AGAIN, building facts to falsify the interpretation of the OP.

The only thing this video shows is that AD does EXACTLY the same thing as EP and no matter WHEN it happened and WHERE it happened, what we have to keep in mind here is that no matter the amount of hate threads toward EP lagging up the server, AD does exactly the same thing when they run organized groups in Cyrodiil.

I don't care about your third party softwares and what you heard once in a video recording of IR's TS of people shouting to spam aoe to lag up the server. I play with them on a regular basic and there is no such thing going on. They are as legit as any other group out there.

And for that guy who said that all those AD guilds have been fighting in Chillrend for the past 3 campaigns without any major problems until that EP guild showd up, it only proves that AD had almost no resistance during those 3 campaigns from anyone organized spamming aoe abilities. As soon as a certain organized group of EP moved to Chillrend and brought some real challenge (AOE VS AOE) in the battlefield, plus the amount of new players and old players coming back to the game with the recent changes to B2P, it created the performance issues we are all experimenting today.

It is not the fault of anyone in particular, it is the combination of all factions fighting against each other creating the latency issues. Especially when everyone has either impulse / steel tornado and other aoe abilities that create alot of calculation process on the server.

Look at the title of his post, lets ignore the inflammatory nature and his original post about "can't win at lag wars" which is funny in and of itself of who it is coming from (must be because they have so much practice in lag wars amirite ). He posted a video clearly that is at LEAST a month and a half old, probably older given some of the names I see in there. And equates it to why guilds left in march.... His timing is off, its disingenuous and while not a straight up lie is flirting with it quite closely. He's in the politician range.

You haven't read anything of my post. The time the video happens doesn't change anything.

Huntler wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

I still think adding friendly fire to AOE and AOE ulty such as meteor puts an end to this garbage...go ahead spam your AOE, while also killing your teammates. Add player collision and were money.

And this right here is why you aren't allowed anywhere near a developer role. Because you don't even realize that you'd be straining resources more with how freaking expensive collision is. Thats besides the fact on how bad of an idea friendly fire is.

I have wrote more code then you probably ever will.

This game wouldn't have these issues if I was the one that coded the engine because i actually know what I am doing and know how to write and fuzz code in a sound manner. I also would have fuzzed the game engine by creating 10,000s of bots to flood the game with all kinds of effects etc in house to see how the engine performs and actually fix things before the game ever launched. I am not artist, but i can code given the time and resources i assure you. I also know how to code things in a modular format, with well laid out flowcharts and documentation, etc. I got started writing in C sin the 1990's, used to code and mess around with assembly before that, I have done C#, Other .Net, Java, Ruby, Perl, Their is probably some others i have forgotten. I am a Network Admin now, don't code much anymore, but i still could if the need arised, its not rocket science to write sound code. I do more powershell and network admin related scripting nowadays then other types of coding simply because i don't have time to sit around and code as a hobby anymore.

It is totally possible to do those calculations if those who coded this engine actually used the "Native Instruction Sets" that are in modern CPU's to make the calculations as close to the bare metal as possible instead of doing them via software brokers and other such interfaces which add extra CPU cycles and unnecessary overhead..

I mean Intel and AMD only designed these instruction sets to make doing such large batches of calculations at one time possible while acceleraring the speed of doing so. Ever try running a Virtual Machine on a system that the CPU doesn't support AMD SVM or Intel VT? Its slower then stinking molasses and the performance blows....you could get a similar performance boost in calculations simply by actually using the Instruction Sets in the CPU instead of relying on software based ones and implementations that have ridiculous overhead associated with them.

AMD Mantle was so successful because it got close to the metal and leverage these CPU Instruction Set's that have been ignored in games and video game API's for years. AMD's Mantle could perform 7 times as many draw calls as DirectX 11 simply by leveraging the resources close to the metal that have been their for years that no one wants to take advantage of. DirectX 12 is pretty much Mantle, of course MS will wrap these around wrappers for an API, but their won't be much overhead at all as Mantle did all the hard work in those phases of limiting the overhead as much as possible.

The biggest problems with ESO is poor coding that has created bottlenecks and insufficient hardware, however the bottleneck can't be solved by hardware because the way the game engine is coded you couldn't throw enough hardware at it to solve the issues, as the more people you get playing, the problems will scale much more then your hardware does.

As i said to Agrippa, he is probably right that friendly collisions with this game is not possible due to the nature of how the engine scales in terms of large groups of people doing things. To solve these issues would require significant investment and money from ZOS to re-write core parts of the game engine and network code itself, and that may not be worth it from a money perspective at some point, I don't know.

From a coding standpoint, collision and number crunching is not that expensive at all if it done in the correct manner. Their are folding at home and other large shared computation grids right now that each server crunches more numbers and complex computations in 1 day then the ESO server does in a week, and their is no slow down on those systems because its implemented correctly.

All the fancy art work aside for video games, at the end of the day, your still looking at 0's and 1s....we have an old saying:

"only two types of people exist in this world; those who understand binary and those who don't"

That last part was a joke Huntler, i know this is a long post, but try not to be so dismissive. its counter productive. I made that comment because i hadn;t had my morning coffee yet. this long post is jsut some educational tidbits of how things are moving forward now with Mantle. Hope your having a great day!

Huntler wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

I still think adding friendly fire to AOE and AOE ulty such as meteor puts an end to this garbage...go ahead spam your AOE, while also killing your teammates. Add player collision and were money.

And this right here is why you aren't allowed anywhere near a developer role. Because you don't even realize that you'd be straining resources more with how freaking expensive collision is. Thats besides the fact on how bad of an idea friendly fire is.

I have wrote more code then you probably ever will.

This game wouldn't have these issues if I was the one that coded the engine because i actually know what I am doing and know how to write and fuzz code in a sound manner. I also would have fuzzed the game engine by creating 10,000s of bots to flood the game with all kinds of effects etc in house to see how the engine performs and actually fix things before the game ever launched. I am not artist, but i can code given the time and resources i assure you. I also know how to code things in a modular format, with well laid out flowcharts and documentation, etc. I got started writing in C sin the 1990's, used to code and mess around with assembly before that, I have done C#, Other .Net, Java, Ruby, Perl, Their is probably some others i have forgotten. I am a Network Admin now, don't code much anymore, but i still could if the need arised, its not rocket science to write sound code. I do more powershell and network admin related scripting nowadays then other types of coding simply because i don't have time to sit around and code as a hobby anymore.

It is totally possible to do those calculations if those who coded this engine actually used the "Native Instruction Sets" that are in modern CPU's to make the calculations as close to the bare metal as possible instead of doing them via software brokers and other such interfaces which add extra CPU cycles and unnecessary overhead..

I mean Intel and AMD only designed these instruction sets to make doing such large batches of calculations at one time possible while acceleraring the speed of doing so. Ever try running a Virtual Machine on a system that the CPU doesn't support AMD SVM or Intel VT? Its slower then stinking molasses and the performance blows....you could get a similar performance boost in calculations simply by actually using the Instruction Sets in the CPU instead of relying on software based ones and implementations that have ridiculous overhead associated with them.

AMD Mantle was so successful because it got close to the metal and leverage these CPU Instruction Set's that have been ignored in games and video game API's for years. AMD's Mantle could perform 7 times as many draw calls as DirectX 11 simply by leveraging the resources close to the metal that have been their for years that no one wants to take advantage of. DirectX 12 is pretty much Mantle, of course MS will wrap these around wrappers for an API, but their won't be much overhead at all as Mantle did all the hard work in those phases of limiting the overhead as much as possible.

The biggest problems with ESO is poor coding that has created bottlenecks and insufficient hardware, however the bottleneck can't be solved by hardware because the way the game engine is coded you couldn't throw enough hardware at it to solve the issues, as the more people you get playing, the problems will scale much more then your hardware does.

As i said to Agrippa, he is probably right that friendly collisions with this game is not possible due to the nature of how the engine scales in terms of large groups of people doing things. To solve these issues would require significant investment and money from ZOS to re-write core parts of the game engine and network code itself, and that may not be worth it from a money perspective at some point, I don't know.

From a coding standpoint, collision and number crunching is not that expensive at all if it done in the correct manner. Their are folding at home and other large shared computation grids right now that each server crunches more numbers and complex computations in 1 day then the ESO server does in a week, and their is no slow down on those systems because its implemented correctly.

All the fancy art work aside for video games, at the end of the day, your still looking at 0's and 1s....we have an old saying:

"only two types of people exist in this world; those who understand binary and those who don't"

That last part was a joke Huntler, i know this is a long post, but try not to be so dismissive. its counter productive. I made that comment because i hadn;t had my morning coffee yet. this long post is jsut some educational tidbits of how things are moving forward now with Mantle. Hope your having a great day!

You're supposed to respond to my post with angry mean retorts... not be nice... I don't ... I don't know what to do now

Current image of Huntlar:

Winnamine wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

I still think adding friendly fire to AOE and AOE ulty such as meteor puts an end to this garbage...go ahead spam your AOE, while also killing your teammates. Add player collision and were money.

And this right here is why you aren't allowed anywhere near a developer role. Because you don't even realize that you'd be straining resources more with how freaking expensive collision is. Thats besides the fact on how bad of an idea friendly fire is.

I have wrote more code then you probably ever will.

This game wouldn't have these issues if I was the one that coded the engine because i actually know what I am doing and know how to write and fuzz code in a sound manner. I also would have fuzzed the game engine by creating 10,000s of bots to flood the game with all kinds of effects etc in house to see how the engine performs and actually fix things before the game ever launched. I am not artist, but i can code given the time and resources i assure you. I also know how to code things in a modular format, with well laid out flowcharts and documentation, etc. I got started writing in C sin the 1990's, used to code and mess around with assembly before that, I have done C#, Other .Net, Java, Ruby, Perl, Their is probably some others i have forgotten. I am a Network Admin now, don't code much anymore, but i still could if the need arised, its not rocket science to write sound code. I do more powershell and network admin related scripting nowadays then other types of coding simply because i don't have time to sit around and code as a hobby anymore.

It is totally possible to do those calculations if those who coded this engine actually used the "Native Instruction Sets" that are in modern CPU's to make the calculations as close to the bare metal as possible instead of doing them via software brokers and other such interfaces which add extra CPU cycles and unnecessary overhead..

I mean Intel and AMD only designed these instruction sets to make doing such large batches of calculations at one time possible while acceleraring the speed of doing so. Ever try running a Virtual Machine on a system that the CPU doesn't support AMD SVM or Intel VT? Its slower then stinking molasses and the performance blows....you could get a similar performance boost in calculations simply by actually using the Instruction Sets in the CPU instead of relying on software based ones and implementations that have ridiculous overhead associated with them.

AMD Mantle was so successful because it got close to the metal and leverage these CPU Instruction Set's that have been ignored in games and video game API's for years. AMD's Mantle could perform 7 times as many draw calls as DirectX 11 simply by leveraging the resources close to the metal that have been their for years that no one wants to take advantage of. DirectX 12 is pretty much Mantle, of course MS will wrap these around wrappers for an API, but their won't be much overhead at all as Mantle did all the hard work in those phases of limiting the overhead as much as possible.

The biggest problems with ESO is poor coding that has created bottlenecks and insufficient hardware, however the bottleneck can't be solved by hardware because the way the game engine is coded you couldn't throw enough hardware at it to solve the issues, as the more people you get playing, the problems will scale much more then your hardware does.

As i said to Agrippa, he is probably right that friendly collisions with this game is not possible due to the nature of how the engine scales in terms of large groups of people doing things. To solve these issues would require significant investment and money from ZOS to re-write core parts of the game engine and network code itself, and that may not be worth it from a money perspective at some point, I don't know.

From a coding standpoint, collision and number crunching is not that expensive at all if it done in the correct manner. Their are folding at home and other large shared computation grids right now that each server crunches more numbers and complex computations in 1 day then the ESO server does in a week, and their is no slow down on those systems because its implemented correctly.

All the fancy art work aside for video games, at the end of the day, your still looking at 0's and 1s....we have an old saying:

"only two types of people exist in this world; those who understand binary and those who don't"

That last part was a joke Huntler, i know this is a long post, but try not to be so dismissive. its counter productive. I made that comment because i hadn;t had my morning coffee yet. this long post is jsut some educational tidbits of how things are moving forward now with Mantle. Hope your having a great day!

Is there a TLDNR version available?

I am coder, hear me roar.