Solution to the Sorc problem

Suhxtob-yu · March 2015

Leave everything they have available to them alone.

Except for bolt escape. The distance traveled with blot escape needs to be halved or maybe just quartered.

That would bring Sorcs back within the realm of balance.

Currently they are the ONLY ones that can survive everything because they can just show their "get out of jail free" card and be gone. NBs can vanish but that is negated by merely drinking a potion. DKs can be DKs. Templars can heal. But all die in battle except Sorcs.

Rylana · March 2015

Suhxtob-yu wrote: »

Leave everything they have available to them alone.

.

You should have stopped here. Then id agree with you.

Cinnamon_Spider · March 2015

Suhxtob-yu wrote: »

Leave everything they have available to them alone.

Except for bolt escape. The distance traveled with blot escape needs to be halved or maybe just quartered.

That would bring Sorcs back within the realm of balance.

Currently they are the ONLY ones that can survive everything because they can just show their "get out of jail free" card and be gone. NBs can vanish but that is negated by merely drinking a potion. DKs can be DKs. Templars can heal. But all die in battle except Sorcs.

I agree with the first sentence, but everything else you wrote is absolute BS.

Bolt escape already has one of the worst nerfs in the game. The second bolt within four seconds cost 50% more magic and cost reductions do not factor. Even with the current distance, any charge ability can easily keep up with this. I get wrecked by two handers on the daily.

We do not survive everything. I die more now than I did in 1.5. These nerf sorc threads are really tiresome and need to die a pitiful death already. Isn't there another broken record we can play?

Suhxtob-yu · March 2015

Fact of the matter is, when any class in this game is beaten, you are rewarded with AP. And that is simply not the case with Sorcs.

You can justify it any way you want but that does not change the fact that they have an easy out button.

And the 2 hander scenario, well that is just it, it is a scenario. Only specific build can hopefully chase down a blinkin sorc. If you getting rekt, then look at what you are doing wrong, because you are playing the most OP class in the game, hands down. You can tank and heal and burst dps. And if all of that is not enough, you can just blognk over the horizon. All simply by stacking 1 stat.....

Kas · March 2015

First of all, i don't get why having hardened ward up protects against knockback from destructive reach and the stun from 1h/s reflect.

Next, while BoL isn't even totally OP, it is one of the most fun ruining abilities in the game. I know that you can counter it. However, if you do not specifically slot a charge for that (better don't try the buggy templar one), you are incredibly helpless against such sorcs. I don't think you can ignore them either. They can just come and go and pick on you until you make a mistake or other players show up and make the matchup favor the sorc.

Personally, I find these two things MUCH more annoying than distance traveled by blink and the total amount of shielded HP. On top of that, I think these issues could be resolved particularly well without having sorcs go from godliek to underpowered too quickly (liek they would if shields would become less powerful than offensive spells liek some demand)

(okay, not sure what to do with BoL but the other morph is still a great spell and much less frustrating to play around so I don't think nerfing it would break sorcs)

I played my Templar about 100 times as lnog as I played my sorc. I didn't even equip my sorc properly for 1.6, yet. However, I'm more effective going solo as sorc as I am on my templar right now. inb4 someone who cannot even interrupt complains about RD.

Suhxtob-yu · March 2015

Kas wrote: »

First of all, i don't get why having hardened ward up protects against knockback from destructive reach and the stun from 1h/s reflect.

Next, while BoL isn't even totally OP, it is one of the most fun ruining abilities in the game. I know that you can counter it. However, if you do not specifically slot a charge for that (better don't try the buggy templar one), you are incredibly helpless against such sorcs. I don't think you can ignore them either. They can just come and go and pick on you until you make a mistake or other players show up and make the matchup favor the sorc.

Personally, I find these two things MUCH more annoying than distance traveled by blink and the total amount of shielded HP. On top of that, I think these issues could be resolved particularly well without having sorcs go from godliek to underpowered too quickly (liek they would if shields would become less powerful than offensive spells liek some demand)

(okay, not sure what to do with BoL but the other morph is still a great spell and much less frustrating to play around so I don't think nerfing it would break sorcs)

I completely agree that Sorcs do not deserve to be nerfed into the ground. But this 1 ability (bolt escape) is what allows everything you described to happen. I also do not think the shield stacking is a problem. Like I stated in the OP, leave everything as is, except BE.

Easiest way to put it, a stamina build should have to use about the same ammount of stamina chasing a sorc as what magicka that sorc is using. So at the end of the chase both parties are slightly hindered.

Suhxtob-yu · March 2015

Or better yet, leave BE as is and credit the opponent with victory AP when a sorc blinks a certain distance away from the fight. That way everyone wins. Sorcs can keep up their blinking ways and people will get rewarded for their choice to flee from the battle.

McDoogs · March 2015

What 'sorc problem'?

Is it just that you don't like them or something?

You guys know that bolt escape has already been nerfed several times right?

Bashev · March 2015

I totally agree with OP. This skill BE is the most unbalanced one. It should be countered by root at least.
P.S Did you remember before 1.6 when you see a DK or a Templar with 1h/s everybody leaves these players for the end after they kill all the rest. Right now is the same with a Sors. When you see a BE sors everybody leaves him and try to kill first the DK, Templ or NB cause they cannot escape

Artemiisia · March 2015

the only problem sorc has, is people thinking sorc has problems....

Cinnamon_Spider · March 2015

Suhxtob-yu wrote: »

Fact of the matter is, when any class in this game is beaten, you are rewarded with AP. And that is simply not the case with Sorcs.

You can justify it any way you want but that does not change the fact that they have an easy out button.

And the 2 hander scenario, well that is just it, it is a scenario. Only specific build can hopefully chase down a blinkin sorc. If you getting rekt, then look at what you are doing wrong, because you are playing the most OP class in the game, hands down. You can tank and heal and burst dps. And if all of that is not enough, you can just blognk over the horizon. All simply by stacking 1 stat.....

Two hander is just one example. I've been killed by a lot of abilities, but bow and two hander are the ones I see the most because they are spammable and do a lot of damage. Even roll dodging isn't efective against some of these abilities because they still hit you.

Suhxtob-yu wrote: »

Kas wrote: »

First of all, i don't get why having hardened ward up protects against knockback from destructive reach and the stun from 1h/s reflect.

Next, while BoL isn't even totally OP, it is one of the most fun ruining abilities in the game. I know that you can counter it. However, if you do not specifically slot a charge for that (better don't try the buggy templar one), you are incredibly helpless against such sorcs. I don't think you can ignore them either. They can just come and go and pick on you until you make a mistake or other players show up and make the matchup favor the sorc.

Personally, I find these two things MUCH more annoying than distance traveled by blink and the total amount of shielded HP. On top of that, I think these issues could be resolved particularly well without having sorcs go from godliek to underpowered too quickly (liek they would if shields would become less powerful than offensive spells liek some demand)

(okay, not sure what to do with BoL but the other morph is still a great spell and much less frustrating to play around so I don't think nerfing it would break sorcs)

I completely agree that Sorcs do not deserve to be nerfed into the ground. But this 1 ability (bolt escape) is what allows everything you described to happen. I also do not think the shield stacking is a problem. Like I stated in the OP, leave everything as is, except BE.

Easiest way to put it, a stamina build should have to use about the same ammount of stamina chasing a sorc as what magicka that sorc is using. So at the end of the chase both parties are slightly hindered.

A stamina build has the perfect solution to a blinking sorc. Don't chase them. 9/10 the sorc will come back and try to engage you again. If you chase, you are doing exactly what we want you to do. We are moving the fight to our terms and we are intentionally running you out of stam.

Leovolao · March 2015

People fall for the stupidest bait in the game, die after chasing the bolting sorc and come to the forums asking for nerfs. BE doesn't need a nerf, your brain needs a *** buff.

Philthyorc · March 2015

You need to understand too that us diehard sorcs have put up with a lot of crap. We were by far the weakest class in the game pre 1.6. Those of us who stuck it out and stayed competitive really had to hone our skills. Now that the class has been brought up to match the other classes some of us seem OP b/c we now have the tools we need to wreck face. You can't nerf sorc without nerfing Stam builds period .... Cuz even now they can roast any sorc in the right situation.

technohic · March 2015

I know I said I would side with sorcs since nerf attempts on them nerfed my class but...

Before we address the problem with sorc; we should identify what the problem actually is. They have the best shield as far as cost, duration and scaling on magicka; the best escape; and if on that you decide to leave them alone with how slippery they are, they have the best practical magicka damage when it comes to PvP.

I think it happens to be the fact that they have the best shield in the game as far as duration, scaling with magicka, and cost is an issue, but more toward what the shield does. The amount of hitpoints is not the problem and they should undo the 15% shield reduction in Cyrodiil ASAP. The reason I say that is then, we need to have crits and debuffs either apply to the shield or the caster. I also think things like major fracture or major breech if not being applied to the caster behind the bubble, should be direct additional damage on the shields hit points. So major fracture or breach would do 5120 damage to the shield if it cannot be applied to the armor.

The other 2 things; I think the escape would be relatively less likely if the shield was being more quickly damaged but who knows. Having best damage as a magicka class probably is where a sorc should be.

Derra · March 2015

Suhxtob-yu wrote: »

Leave everything they have available to them alone.

Except for bolt escape. The distance traveled with blot escape needs to be halved or maybe just quartered.

That would bring Sorcs back within the realm of balance.

Currently they are the ONLY ones that can survive everything because they can just show their "get out of jail free" card and be gone. NBs can vanish but that is negated by merely drinking a potion. DKs can be DKs. Templars can heal. But all die in battle except Sorcs.

And another one of the rare species that is too d*** to use a gap closer! Sheesh.

Soarin' · March 2015

In B4 Ezaret, Vis and sixuponthelot derail this thread too.

Had discussion with allot of the Pride members on TS, we (sorcs included) came to consensus that shield stacking and bolt escape make the sorc class the most troublesome opponent in skirmish fights.

He can hold you in combat, either eventually wearing you down or just long enough for backup to arrive. The whole "in combat" system really does favor this type of combat, by essentially acting as a snare of sorts with unlimited range.

AhPook_Is_Here · March 2015

Sorcs aren't a problem, bad, poorly equipped players with builds ineffective against sorcerers are the problem.

Joy_Division · March 2015

Leovolao wrote: »

People fall for the stupidest bait in the game, die after chasing the bolting sorc and come to the forums asking for nerfs. BE doesn't need a nerf, your brain needs a *** buff.

That's funny.

As a sorc player myself, I am beginning to think that having it as the only class to have its shields based off magicka is too much since DKs and templars do not have this luxury. Not sure is the "pet" morph is also based off magikca? Stam sorcs would appreciate their class shield I'm sure.

RinaldoGandolphi · March 2015

Whining about bolt escape!? Lol!

BE ports 17m all gap closers have what 22? 24?m range, this is comical.

As for hardened ward, sorcs would be unplayable without it, and its strength is way overstated here. Way overstated. You will be hard pressed to even get two full hits of protection out of it, and any sorc worth his salt spends time constantly refreshing it during combat so he/she doesn't die.

Bashev · March 2015

woodsro wrote: »

Whining about bolt escape!? Lol!

BE ports 17m all gap closers have what 22? 24?m range, this is comical.

As for hardened ward, sorcs would be unplayable without it, and its strength is way overstated here. Way overstated. You will be hard pressed to even get two full hits of protection out of it, and any sorc worth his salt spends time constantly refreshing it during combat so he/she doesn't die.

Let me give you an example. I charge and root you. You bolt escape with my roots and disorient me. While I break the disorient you bolt escape again. I cannot reach you with another charge cause I need a target to charge.

RinaldoGandolphi · March 2015

Sorcs have to have their class shield based off magic.

Sorcs by nature are known to have powerful active magic defenses but weak and frail physically, their mind is their weapon. This has basis in lore and is accurate.

The way the game currently is basing a sorc shield off health would render the class useless as sorc spells are most expensive, we don't do the really high damage two handers do, sorcs are annoying misty for our ability to kite.

Epsilon_Echo · March 2015

I posted this referring to magic DK builds last October.

Epsilon_Echo wrote: »

Oh by all means, nerf into the ground. Keep making threads like this every day and swarming into them like lemmings. I roll a VR in every class so I'll be fine. Have you considered, that when you are finally satisfied, when DKs are nerfed beyond repair, that all the try-hards who refuse to adapt their skills to kill other builds will just find a new scape-goat to complain about here on the forums?

I wonder who it will be?

Now humor me while I simmer in my own self loathing.

Vis · March 2015

Only problem is lack of skill. L2P and your imaginary "sorc problem" disappears.

Vis · March 2015

Suhxtob-yu wrote: »

Fact of the matter is, when any class in this game is beaten, you are rewarded with AP. And that is simply not the case with Sorcs.

You can justify it any way you want but that does not change the fact that they have an easy out button.

And the 2 hander scenario, well that is just it, it is a scenario. Only specific build can hopefully chase down a blinkin sorc. If you getting rekt, then look at what you are doing wrong, because you are playing the most OP class in the game, hands down. You can tank and heal and burst dps. And if all of that is not enough, you can just blognk over the horizon. All simply by stacking 1 stat.....

NBs get away with cloak all the time. Templars spam heal to safety all the time. Yesterday a low vr ranked DK held block for 4 and a half minutes and walked two of us all the way to inside her keep before dispearing through the door.

If you know how to play, you can do amazing things. If you don't know how to play, you are always going to see greener grass on the other side.

Vis · March 2015

Leovolao wrote: »

People fall for the stupidest bait in the game, die after chasing the bolting sorc and come to the forums asking for nerfs. BE doesn't need a nerf, your brain needs a *** buff.

I bet this is exactly what happened to the OP and he was like "if only I had stayed with my zerg and not been placed into a situation requiring skill and resource management."

Vis · March 2015

technohic wrote: »

I know I said I would side with sorcs since nerf attempts on them nerfed my class but...

The reason I say that is then, we need to have crits and debuffs either apply to the shield or the caster.

Shields can't crit like heals. How would that be fair?

technohic · March 2015

Vis wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

I know I said I would side with sorcs since nerf attempts on them nerfed my class but...

The reason I say that is then, we need to have crits and debuffs either apply to the shield or the caster.

Shields can't crit like heals. How would that be fair?

I won't address how it would be fair when you cherry picked just a couple lines of the explanation.

RinaldoGandolphi · March 2015

Bashev wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

Whining about bolt escape!? Lol!

BE ports 17m all gap closers have what 22? 24?m range, this is comical.

As for hardened ward, sorcs would be unplayable without it, and its strength is way overstated here. Way overstated. You will be hard pressed to even get two full hits of protection out of it, and any sorc worth his salt spends time constantly refreshing it during combat so he/she doesn't die.

Let me give you an example. I charge and root you. You bolt escape with my roots and disorient me. While I break the disorient you bolt escape again. I cannot reach you with another charge cause I need a target to charge.

This is how it should be. I dont see a problem. This is no different then the DK casts scales, I cast shards, shards comes back and hits me.

This boils down to folks whining because someone gets away. Two classes in this game were given clear ways to ESCAPE. One of them actually has the word in its skill name. This game was designed with escaping being integral to two classes (sorc and nb) BE is not a granted escape and neither is cloak. Cloak in the hands of someone such as sypher allows him to get out of situations other can't.

Bottom line is folks need to get used to it and quit whining about someone running and go fight someone else, as a sorc myself, I wont chase another.

Escaping, running away is a valid strategy. This is not an arena where one man enters and one man.leaves. Disengaging combat is a valid strategy. Those who chase BE sorcs know we are preying on human.tendencies of impulsiveness
and irrational behavior. This has decades of psychological study behind it. Marketers have used this for years, 8 out of 10 purchases are impulse buys, in the right presentation, most folks can't help themselves.

That's why its so easy as a sorc to dangle as that bait just out of reach.

So dont take the bait, the most annoying thing you can do to a sorc is ignore him and continue to move away from him.

Feigning disinterest is one of the most powerful tactics that can be used against a sorc.

cozmon3c_ESO · March 2015

Vis wrote: »

Leovolao wrote: »

People fall for the stupidest bait in the game, die after chasing the bolting sorc and come to the forums asking for nerfs. BE doesn't need a nerf, your brain needs a *** buff.

I bet this is exactly what happened to the OP and he was like "if only I had stayed with my zerg and not been placed into a situation requiring skill and resource management."

this reminds me of a year ago, all the noobs whining over bolt escape getting it nerfed hard. then the meta finally came to be a couple weeks later and people realized they had to slot a charge skill to be competative in the game leaving sorcs to have to stack max cost reduction gear and ruining there build diversity. these whiners have put sorc to the worst spot for a year and now we are back to a balanced state and the noob players cry nerf again on an ability that is still nerfed to this day, killing build diversity for the sorc even more again? nope not going to happen.

this is a learn to play issue, we sorcs who have stuck it through learned to be competative while being on the low end of the totem poll. now that we are on par with you, we seem over powered because we were on the low end of damage spectrum before 1.6. every class can hit hard now and have survivability, i have seen it, and if you dont, you need to ask someone who knows what they are doing because you whiners obviously dont.

Gorthax · March 2015

Suhxtob-yu wrote: »

Leave everything they have available to them alone.

Except for bolt escape. The distance traveled with blot escape needs to be halved or maybe just quartered.

That would bring Sorcs back within the realm of balance.

Currently they are the ONLY ones that can survive everything because they can just show their "get out of jail free" card and be gone. NBs can vanish but that is negated by merely drinking a potion. DKs can be DKs. Templars can heal. But all die in battle except Sorcs.

ROFL LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! are you serious right now? The distance ONE bolt/ball of lightning gives you is 5 times(over exagerated but its more like 2-3 times less) LESS than the range on crit charge, bows, shield charge, etc. please move on to a different game or just stop chasing sorcs.

Psilent · March 2015

woodsro wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

Whining about bolt escape!? Lol!

BE ports 17m all gap closers have what 22? 24?m range, this is comical.

As for hardened ward, sorcs would be unplayable without it, and its strength is way overstated here. Way overstated. You will be hard pressed to even get two full hits of protection out of it, and any sorc worth his salt spends time constantly refreshing it during combat so he/she doesn't die.

Let me give you an example. I charge and root you. You bolt escape with my roots and disorient me. While I break the disorient you bolt escape again. I cannot reach you with another charge cause I need a target to charge.

This is how it should be. I dont see a problem. This is no different then the DK casts scales, I cast shards, shards comes back and hits me.

This boils down to folks whining because someone gets away. Two classes in this game were given clear ways to ESCAPE. One of them actually has the word in its skill name. This game was designed with escaping being integral to two classes (sorc and nb) BE is not a granted escape and neither is cloak. Cloak in the hands of someone such as sypher allows him to get out of situations other can't.

Bottom line is folks need to get used to it and quit whining about someone running and go fight someone else, as a sorc myself, I wont chase another.

Escaping, running away is a valid strategy. This is not an arena where one man enters and one man.leaves. Disengaging combat is a valid strategy. Those who chase BE sorcs know we are preying on human.tendencies of impulsiveness
and irrational behavior. This has decades of psychological study behind it. Marketers have used this for years, 8 out of 10 purchases are impulse buys, in the right presentation, most folks can't help themselves.

That's why its so easy as a sorc to dangle as that bait just out of reach.

So dont take the bait, the most annoying thing you can do to a sorc is ignore him and continue to move away from him.

Feigning disinterest is one of the most powerful tactics that can be used against a sorc.

One of the longest and most volatile hate tells I have ever gotten in this game was from a Sorceror that I stopped chasing.

I started to chase at Arrius Keep and when we got about halfway to Kingscrest Farm I realized I was going to run out of stamina and die, so I concluded the only logical course of action was to disengage and head back to Arrius. I let him bolt ahead of me twice and then I popped maneuvers and ran back to Arrius.

He did not like that; he chased me all the way back and bolted right into a group of three stealthed EP and was slaughtered.

The tells I got were the best. "Who runs from a 1v1?" "You're the worst player I have ever faced!" "I am a vampire! You could have killed me with your flame attacks!" "Noob who needs others to kill one player." "Just stop playing this game, you noob". Add in a lot of profanity too and that's about sums up his QQ.