Cadwell's Silver and Gold, Do You Like It?

Aeladiir · March 2015

Rubbish, not lore friendly and a cheap way to make "end game content".

Naor_Sarethi · March 2015

Finished Gold today finally and it ended in reapers march as it had started in glenumbra. frustrated, angry and completely pointless. I don't even know why i bothered to spend time on these damn quests if it hadn't been for unlocking the map and all cities.
With that i am not sure how much longer i will stay with this game and if i do it will be solely for the people i know ingame and the pvp.
the rest is absolutely ridiculous.
good riddance.

Endurance · March 2015

I liked it.. its like beating Diablo III on normal then playing it all over again in hard mode then beating it and playing it all over in nightmare/inferno mode

Naor_Sarethi · March 2015

nightmare/inferno mode? yes.
except the nightmare is the quests and the inferno is me hating them.
In fact i didn't hate specific factions and people in this game until i actually had to do cadwells, after which i will start wearing khajiitfur socks and aldmer ears on my belt. and get a breton slave pet.

Hypertionb14_ESO · March 2015

no reason not to since we can just as easily create a ALT on those factions to see the content.

i dont like the vet levels, but the content is ok.

Seraphyel · March 2015

Naor_Sarethi wrote: »

@Uviryth

* Missing logic behind it

Being in a parallel version of history, i am still the same guy.
And the game decides for you that you want to help everyone in these factions.
Why would you work for the Pact, fight the other factions in PvP all the time, but spend all your PvE time helping them again?

* Missing story behind it

"Missing" as in almost lacking a story. Yes there is a miniature excuse for a story behind it but it does not become visible at any time unless you finish Silver or Gold.
If i had a Daedric Prince turn up, freezing time and talking to me, maybe more than one, it would be interesting.
If Cadwell made more appereances and the quests differed from the standard AD/ DC content to match the story, it would work.
But none of this is happening.

* Dull implementation of VR (zones/story)

That is a case for all zones and a general problem. Things are incredibly annoying or repetitive.
Unless you *really* really... are exactly what the devs had in mind when designing the quests which i can promise you is not the case in many cases, then you have little to no interest in following a questline that forces decisions and sentiments on you that you do not share whatsoever.

* Overall approach

It's the feeling of "we ran out of ideas" simply.
No love or care was given in regards to people spending their Veteran levels there.
The quests made sense, for members of the faction.
I chose EP because i liked them and that is why i enjoyed my quests there (with exceptions, that i specified in other threads)
Now my choice is irrelevant since one way or another i need to side with everyone, aka it nullifies my initial choice.

* Copy & Paste quests in all three factions (even copy&paste NPCs)

If i had a septim for every time i had to "disable those 2/3/4 crystals"," kill x mobs","put fires out","gather item x,y,z"
I would move into a house in Caldera, turn into a scamp and open a shady business.

* Slow progression

Tediousness and slow progression work hand in hand.
1-49 i forgot my xp bar since i enjoyed the quest.
Now i find myself looking at it over and over to see when this mindless grind will finally end and i can move on to have more nonsense thrown at me.

* Missing diversity

Little to no choices that matter, all the same do goodie, moralistic approach.
No wit, No humour, just a boring modernized and political correct version of Tamriel.

* Plain and bland design

See above. The devs have a shallow and naive vision of Tamriel, mainly because i assume this particular team has not invested time into understanding how the universe really is, or simply disagree with some parts such as slavery, racial bias, daedra worship etc and make the game into a conformist, linear and very predictable world with no real distinctions between factions in terms of ideology and mentality.
Everyone seems to have the same 21st century western attitude to life, which is so out of place, it hurts.

You want more? There is an indefinite list of things that make the Veteran System bad.

See polls on Mature content e.g.

Thank you very much for pointing that out, couldn't have done it better!

I_killed_Vivec · March 2015

Naor_Sarethi wrote: »

@Enodoc Elder Scrolls has a reocurring theme. You are a prisoner with *no* background.
The idea is, you make your own background and it's not handed to you.
With this setup now you can make your background anyway you like, except the game nullifies that immediately by forcing you into choices that are entirely out of your character.
I for one would certainly not have a "neutral" "citizen" background (citizen of what? there is no empire as it will be in the 3rd era)

@Nadijeh The war isn't over however, and secondly your choice ...again... is nullified since you're taking everyones side which is ridiculous imo.
If i wanted to be neutral, i would join a Daedric cult and meddle with everyones affairs.
Alas i can't.

The game forced you into an initial choice, which then gave your character a background - yes, you might be soulless, you might have washed ashore on a random beach, but you have already chosen a side.

Yes you are forced into making a choice in Cadwell's that is out of character, but that is the whole point!

You're being "groomed" by Meridia. Forced to see beyond the narrow restrictions of your original prejudices...

It's all far less illogical than VR levels fighting in Cyrodiil - or doing the dolmens there (at least in Craglorn they are just remnants).

Naor_Sarethi · March 2015

It's a game and so far it's been very unpleasant for long periods of time.
Justifying that with arguments like "groomed by meridia"..lel.
so what if that was their intention? i don't enjoy it and i don't see a point wasting more time on it.
might work for some, not for me though.

coryevans_3b14_ESO · March 2015

Blame folks in the Beta who whine and cried about not wanting to make alts. This was why it was implemented. ZOS tends to side with the loudest whiners.

wolonggong_ESO · March 2015

I didn't vote because of lack of options.

I don't like it but I don't like it because of the fact it rather makes Alts a pain.

They should have made it so I would be doing brand new quests in the other factions instead of the EXACT same quests as a new character in those zones do...its a cheap way of making the game seem larger the current way and also makes alternate characters boring as hell since you now already have done the same quests already.

It really solidified my original complaint of using the Dark Age of Camelot design of splitting the world in 3 closed off "factions"...so limits the game in ways that it didn't need to be limited.

Naor_Sarethi · March 2015

That's because the Director of ESO is the same one as in DAoC.

DracoMars · March 2015

It should be said first and foremost that I am both a fan and supporter of this game and have very much enjoyed my time here thus far...

Zenimax decided from launch not to make ESO a lore-based/RP-friendly environment. Where other MMO's have individual, segregated servers for a particular faction or playstyle (eg. an RP server where you select Daggerfall Covenant and all characters on that server are in DC; a PVP server where you select Aldmeri Dominion, and all characters on that server are AD; etc, etc ).

Zenimax decided to go with the megaserver system, which fundamentally eliminates the concept of true faction warfare, as well as true immersion in the lore.

This isn't a rant, mind you (I've been playing since launch, so I obviously enjoy the game)....This is simply a description of how the megaserver works, in my experience.

A new player that wishes to embrace the lore can have many hours of immersive fun on their way to 50. Just know that if you want to continue your character into the realm of veteran/champion, the immersion ends there. The cross-faction veteran questing is double-edged sword, so to speak...it expands the end-game options and allows for thorough exploration of the game world, but it also nullifies the concept of faction-loyalty and story-telling. (Example: A DC character who is rankV1+ will be doing quests in the Aldmeri Dominion region that take place prior to the final main-story, and that character will also be fighting AGAINST the Aldmeri Dominion if he'she decides to PvP in Cyrodiil)

Mind you, this scenario of cross-faction questing is enjoyable, and certainly preferable to having no PvE end-game questing at all...but if you want to experience true immersion or 'roleplaying' after the level 1-50 'theme-park-ride" is over, you'll need to seek out an RP guild or community specifically dedicated to upholding the lore in your faction.

In summation, ESO is a great game with plenty of potential...I just wish that the attributes more heavily outweighed the detriments:

-A great solo storyline sacrifices immersive group play
-A convenient megaserver allows optimum flexibility but eliminates RP and faction loyalty
-An extended PVE experience(50+) undermines PVP relevance

Kalfis · March 2015

Most of the people against it were going to have 1 character in each faction anyways.

Most of the people who are for it don't want a character in every faction.

I am neutral on this. I would make a character on each faction anyways, but I would prefer not having to.

Enodoc · March 2015

Kalfis wrote: »

Most of the people against it were going to have 1 character in each faction anyways.

Most of the people who are for it don't want a character in every faction.

Agreed, that seems to be the general breakdown of opinion. And the easiest solution to both sides is to stop it from seeming forced upon you and to make it truly optional, which I think they will achieve when they remove Veteran Ranks.

Head.hunter · March 2015

You still get to PvP with your own faction. Working with the enemy is really a minor inconvenience. You have to look at it as a learning experience, where there are good people working on all sides of the war, not just enemies.

drogon1 · March 2015

Overall I think it's a solid game design decision to open up the PvE content from other factions. For one, it keeps people in a single faction, instead of re-rolling to a different one - a good thing for the three-way faction-based PvP in Cyrodiil (minimizes realm-hoppers).

In an ideal world, one major additional storyline for vets to work through in the vet zones would be a nice addition and probably not be enough to invite realm-hopping. But of course this requires resources that are best - imo - spent elsewhere in the game atm (such as completion of the Imperial City, creation of more vet dungeon experiences and other group content).

Sacklunch · March 2015

For me it is simply an illogical decision. Why roll a character through two more factions just to hit V14 when I can make an alternate toon in each faction and then have three veteran level characters. It is much faster to grind dungeons to get to max level anyway. If I get my alternate toons to vet level 1 then I have three vet characters with different classes I can go delving with(one of each roll tank, healer, dps).

Where as I do like the idea of having one character that can do it all IE: craft everything, play any roll in group, unlock all achievements; the simple fact of the matter is that with the class system the game has this is simply not possible. A Dragon Knight will never heal as well as a Templar, a Sorcerer will never tank as well as a Dragon Knight and so on. Even on a solo PVE situation you still have to elect one of the three major stats (magicka. health, stamina) to invest in more based on your character class.

It seems to me that this is very disadvantageous way to complete the game. However since not all achievements are shared by an account you must do it if you want all the rewards of having a fully complete character in game. The champion system tries to fix this but merely confuses the issue of completion as now you must complete the veteran ranks as well as the champion ranks and the other factions.

In conclusion for me as the game is simply not set up to support one character that can do everything it is a huge waste of my time to level through questing any non origin zones. To force everyone in the game to play through all three factions four different times to get a vet level character in each class is simply wrong.

As I feel it is wrong to debate a problem without presenting a solution I offer this; why not be able to play as all four classes on one character? Either that or even simpler make every achievement account wide then no matter how you choose to play if you do something once it is done for all.

Kaspar · March 2015

No... I'd rather have separate content for each faction...

Naor_Sarethi · March 2015

Cadwells Gold and Silver... it's literally better than *nothing*.
That shouldn't be an argument but right now it's the only argument it has to exist.
If it isn't made to be lore friendly and RP friendly (or simply genuine immersion), why even bother to make TES into an MMO.
You don't just take 10 years of history, 5 Singleplayer releases, throw them overboard, shred them up and shove them into an MMO sausage.
It's just not gonna go down well.
And i wasn't even opposed to the idea of an MMO, it's just what came of it.
There *are* ways to implement proper immersion for a character of one faction and race, but there is no effort undertaken to get it done.
Instead it's a kidfriendly themepark that says a lot and nothing at the same time.
I finished so i wouldn't ever have to see these quests again... got a blue jewellery item thrown at me and that was it. Bravo.... three times over the ****** who ran about to save the npc's he hates most.
Oh and yea... there was something about Molag Bal and an epic fight.... but that was pretty much the first week of me playing the game. The other 3 weeks i spent in Cadwells personal hell.
Congrats.

MornaBaine · March 2015

coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »

Blame folks in the Beta who whine and cried about not wanting to make alts. This was why it was implemented. ZOS tends to side with the loudest whiners.

I get people not wanting to roll alts in order to experience the other lands. But I don't think any of them had THIS in mind.

Naor_Sarethi · March 2015

Actually those 50 levels were nicely done (well..mostly, in comparison now) for a member of the faction, and at some point i might have rolled an AD / DC char, and if i hadn't liked it, i could simlpy have switched back to EP and be happy.
Now i've actually spent more time in the other zones than in my own.

MornaBaine · March 2015

Naor_Sarethi wrote: »

Actually those 50 levels were nicely done (well..mostly, in comparison now) for a member of the faction, and at some point i might have rolled an AD / DC char, and if i hadn't liked it, i could simlpy have switched back to EP and be happy.
Now i've actually spent more time in the other zones than in my own.

I feel like this is a common failing for most MMOs though. You seldom ever get a reason to return to your homeland. That needs to change.

djnapstyb14_ESO · March 2015

It would be awesome if they had re-written the quests to relevant to being from an oposing faction. The espionage aspect could be a whole other game.

djnapstyb14_ESO · March 2015

It would be awesome if they had re-written the quests to relevant to being from an oposing faction. The espionage aspect could be a whole other game.

Naor_Sarethi · March 2015

MornaBaine wrote: »

Naor_Sarethi wrote: »

Actually those 50 levels were nicely done (well..mostly, in comparison now) for a member of the faction, and at some point i might have rolled an AD / DC char, and if i hadn't liked it, i could simlpy have switched back to EP and be happy.
Now i've actually spent more time in the other zones than in my own.

I feel like this is a common failing for most MMOs though. You seldom ever get a reason to return to your homeland. That needs to change.

True really. You pick a Race based on their background, the lore etc, and that involves the relevant places too.
Of course it's nice to be able to travel and explore the world, but only coming back to spam lfg in mournhold is pretty weak.
But as you say, it's an issue common to MMO's.
At least they left parts of the map open, which was probably not intended as such but might actually be the best way to fix this issue.
Only problem will be the pace of course.
Don't know how long Wrothgar has been worked on and that is just the Orsimer.
With 9 races in total it will take forever to actually add a piece of land with high level content to every race.

Sylveria_Relden · March 2015

I'm really kind of split on this...

I like playing "alts" and having different experiences, however, typically with "RvR" or Realm vs Realm type games, I'm partial to one faction or another- which causes conflict in terms of personality and experience. It's not about "role playing" or any of that, but rather conflict in continuation of story- and with MMO's it's an ever-changing online experience.

That said- I prefer to experience the stories on different characters and I usually only do so in terms of focus on one at a time. When I hit 50 (VR 1) and started Cadwell's Silver- a couple of things occurred to me.

One, the lack of choice of which "realm" I'd like to start or play- it's forced. Really not acceptable, IMO.
Two, the fact that you're just "dropped into it" with no real continuity... and you just wander sort of aimlessly picking up quests so you can complete them for xp, etc. Okies.

I'd have to agree with those who've spoken opinions on the "cheap way to add high level content" because it really does feel like that's what they did. I'm not knocking it as an option- but rather I think it would help if people had choices in the matter, rather than it being one of only a few options (and again, back to #1... give us a choice of which one we're stuck with- how about redoing content for our *chosen* faction, for all the loyal compatriots?) being, Missioning, Raids/Group Dungeons, or PvP. (Crafting XP sucks for levelling, so I'm really not listing it as an "option")

Perhaps this would actually make it a little better. Not best, but better with the current system, anyway.

Would be nice if there was a new content patch soon as well- but I'm really not holding my breath here.

Acrolas · March 2015

Thanks to the eidetic memory that the Mages Guild gave me, I already know that all three faction leaders are idiots forced by the writers into what is essentially middle school drama.

And now your character is an idiot, too, deceiving and killing members of his or her own nation to reach a moment of clarity that will never come. That's not heroic. Do that in real life and it's called treason.

ZeniMax gets more mileage out of the game world, and that's it. There's no in-game logic for it. There's no reason why I start as a noob in a new faction yet an easy starter island quest rewards a weapon better than the one I fought through seven land masses to find. Logic would dictate that a noob in this faction is more powerful than a champion in my own.

But hey, you go save that money, ZeniMax.

Naor_Sarethi · March 2015

middle school drama pretty much sums it up. happens when you fix things that aren't broken. and TES was never broken, but definitely overfixed for no reason.

lovESOng · March 2015

I chose my faction because i like it best. And my faction's area is now the last place i wanna be because i dont get any xp or loot there.

Soulshine · March 2015

Endurance wrote: »

I liked it.. its like beating Diablo III on normal then playing it all over again in hard mode then beating it and playing it all over in nightmare/inferno mode

You have got to kidding, right? Silver and Gold are about as challenging as walking on a flat road, but I guess yeah some people will still stumble.... now, where is the LoL button again?