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Inventory Management drives players away from the game
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LtCrunch✭✭✭✭✭
✭pecheckler wrote: »People claiming they craft all professions and have room in the bank without alternate characters to hold stuff are full of ***.
I want the Lol button so badly for you right now...oh well just imagine someone laughing in your face, should be sufficient.
You should use Gifs!
Thanks for the tip(hehe).
NerdSauce GamingLaughs-At-Wounds - Sap tanking since 03/30/14ßrandalf - Light armor tanking since 03/03/15Brandalf Beer-Belly - Tanking drunk since 12/30/160 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I would have thought the reasoning behind limited bank space was obvious by now. The crown store...
Actually, the reasoning behind the limited bank space is no secret, as ZOS has officialy stated last year shortly after the game launched (in a thread just like this one) that the limited inventory is their way to make players specialize in a craft, instead of trying to level up all crafts at once.
Instead of imposing hard limits on how many crafts a character can learn (like most other MMO's do), they nudge players into specializing by making them realize they cannot (especially at the beginning of their play) possibly hoard all materials needed for leveling all crafts simultaneously. And i prefer it this way, because if you really are dedicated, you can have one master-crafter that can do everything eventually(i do).4 -
Genomic✭✭✭✭✭pecheckler wrote: »People claiming they craft all professions and have room in the bank without alternate characters to hold stuff are full of ***.
You can do it, just takes lots of time. Unfortunately, most people lack the time (or the desire) to play the endless inventory shuffling mini-game. The game shouldn't, heck, must not only cater to the no-lifers who play the game for 8hrs+ a day, for surely that is the path to FTP and closure. The thing is, if ZOS doubles inventory space, the obsessive and unemployed fans will still play the game. ZOS could hand them a paper bag mostly filled with dog poop and say "here's your storage from now on" and they'd still play (and rationalise why it was a great idea). But keeping the inventory system unnecessarily small, fiddly and time consuming will definitely scare off many of the more casual players. Thus increasing inventory space and/or improving the inventory management system is the only logical decision.
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wrlifeboil✭✭✭✭✭I would have thought the reasoning behind limited bank space was obvious by now. The crown store...
Actually, the reasoning behind the limited bank space is no secret, as ZOS has officialy stated last year shortly after the game launched (in a thread just like this one) that the limited inventory is their way to make players specialize in a craft, instead of trying to level up all crafts at once.
Instead of imposing hard limits on how many crafts a character can learn (like most other MMO's do), they nudge players into specializing by making them realize they cannot (especially at the beginning of their play) possibly hoard all materials needed for leveling all crafts simultaneously. And i prefer it this way, because if you really are dedicated, you can have one master-crafter that can do everything eventually(i do).
Like the in-game dialog goes, sometimes a little lie saves a lot of explanation.
Bag/bank space boost is a no brainer for a cash shop.0 -
WhimsyDragon✭✭✭I spend more time trying to organize/discard stuff than I should. I really do appreciate being able to access my bank stuff across all characters. Also, definitely on board with putting trophies and disguises in the collections.Edited by WhimsyDragon on March 22, 2018 3:37AM4 -
Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Thus increasing inventory space and/or improving the inventory management system is the only logical decision.
False dilemma. I don't play 8 hours a day. As noted in another thread I have one full time and one part time job. I also have a wife who, because I would like to stay married, gets a considerable portion of my time.
I also have a VR9 main (and one alt for my trophies only). And you know what? My main is L50 in all crafts, he knows every non-nirnhoned trait on Clothing, Blacksmithing and Woodworking. I have raw and processed mats for every level of every craft and you know what? He still has 70-100 slots free for adventuring, exploring and questing.
It can be done, even with all crafts, it just requires some thought a smidge of planning.
Suggesting the only people who can do it are "no-lifers" is not only pointless but it actually means that people who are generally in favour of the system but would happily see some changes to certain aspects (like trophies) won't take what you say seriously due to its insulting overtones.2 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭wrlifeboil wrote: »I would have thought the reasoning behind limited bank space was obvious by now. The crown store...
Actually, the reasoning behind the limited bank space is no secret, as ZOS has officialy stated last year shortly after the game launched (in a thread just like this one) that the limited inventory is their way to make players specialize in a craft, instead of trying to level up all crafts at once.
Instead of imposing hard limits on how many crafts a character can learn (like most other MMO's do), they nudge players into specializing by making them realize they cannot (especially at the beginning of their play) possibly hoard all materials needed for leveling all crafts simultaneously. And i prefer it this way, because if you really are dedicated, you can have one master-crafter that can do everything eventually(i do).
Like the in-game dialog goes, sometimes a little lie saves a lot of explanation.
Bag/bank space boost is a no brainer for a cash shop.
I agree that a bank space boost is a likely addition to the cash shop, because it goes with the ZOS crown store policy of convenience.
Just saying that cash shop was not a consideration when they imposed the inventory limits a year ago.1 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
One person's 'wonderfully rich' is another's "fatuously bloated".skeletorz_ESO wrote: »So you want to take the wonderfully rich crafting system you just boasted about and dumb it down so that it sucks?
There's no reason for example why Provisioning has to have a bazillion mats, it's bloat for bloat's sake. ZOS agreed, they reduced some of it recently but there are still way too many that are simply inventory blockers. It's made infintely worse because unlike Enchanting Runes food ingredients give no idea the level of the food items they're for and you can't access your recipe list except at a Cooking Fire.
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LtCrunch✭✭✭✭✭
✭pecheckler wrote: »People claiming they craft all professions and have room in the bank without alternate characters to hold stuff are full of ***.
You can do it, just takes lots of time. Unfortunately, most people lack the time (or the desire) to play the endless inventory shuffling mini-game. The game shouldn't, heck, must not only cater to the no-lifers who play the game for 8hrs+ a day, for surely that is the path to FTP and closure. The thing is, if ZOS doubles inventory space, the obsessive and unemployed fans will still play the game. ZOS could hand them a paper bag mostly filled with dog poop and say "here's your storage from now on" and they'd still play (and rationalise why it was a great idea). But keeping the inventory system unnecessarily small, fiddly and time consuming will definitely scare off many of the more casual players. Thus increasing inventory space and/or improving the inventory management system is the only logical decision.
I manage to do it with very little time spent doing inventory management. I usually end up banking/selling things maybe once every hour for about 5 mins. It's more about what you keep vs. what you sell.
Edited by LtCrunch on March 30, 2015 6:46AMNerdSauce GamingLaughs-At-Wounds - Sap tanking since 03/30/14ßrandalf - Light armor tanking since 03/03/15Brandalf Beer-Belly - Tanking drunk since 12/30/161 -
Genomic✭✭✭✭✭I get that some of you are OK with the current system, but clearly many are not. Thing is, as I said before, if ZOS increased inventory space for everyone, it doesn't harm you at all, you'd still keep playing. But it would improve the game for many people and be a factor in keeping them playing. Again, it'd be the logical decision by ZOS. In addition, the current system would likely be even more onerous and time consuming on a console, a crowd less likely to tolerate this.
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wrlifeboil✭✭✭✭✭I get that some of you are OK with the current system, but clearly many are not. Thing is, as I said before, if ZOS increased inventory space for everyone, it doesn't harm you at all, you'd still keep playing. But it would improve the game for many people and be a factor in keeping them playing. Again, it'd be the logical decision by ZOS. In addition, the current system would likely be even more onerous and time consuming on a console, a crowd less likely to tolerate this.
Some people don't craft in-game. They don't need additional inventory space. The ones that craft heavily or hoard things and who do need extra space, point them to the cash shop.1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I get that some of you are OK with the current system, but clearly many are not. Thing is, as I said before, if ZOS increased inventory space for everyone, it doesn't harm you at all
ZOS uses inventory system to limit player ability to train multiple crafts at once, instead the usual way MMO's limit crafting by putting in a hard cap on how many crafts i can learn.
If they switch from the inventory way of limiting crafting, and instead implement the hard cap way, that would harm me.0 -
Genomic✭✭✭✭✭I get that some of you are OK with the current system, but clearly many are not. Thing is, as I said before, if ZOS increased inventory space for everyone, it doesn't harm you at all
ZOS uses inventory system to limit player ability to train multiple crafts at once, instead the usual way MMO's limit crafting by putting in a hard cap on how many crafts i can learn.
If they switch from the inventory way of limiting crafting, and instead implement the hard cap way, that would harm me.
But why limit people like that? Why not allow people to train multiple crafts at once, if they so choose? They give you the ability to pick up all professions, but hobble you at the same time. And what will you say if ZOS does put in bag space increases in the crown store, which is fairly likely?
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Govalon✭✭✭✭I get that some of you are OK with the current system, but clearly many are not. Thing is, as I said before, if ZOS increased inventory space for everyone, it doesn't harm you at all
ZOS uses inventory system to limit player ability to train multiple crafts at once, instead the usual way MMO's limit crafting by putting in a hard cap on how many crafts i can learn.
If they switch from the inventory way of limiting crafting, and instead implement the hard cap way, that would harm me.
False, no MMO I have ever played had any limits on how many crafts you could level with one char. In fact, everyone of them lets you level up all crafts. Sure, I have not tried all MMO's. If there are MMO's that have limits like that, they are VERY rare.Edited by Govalon on March 30, 2015 9:23AM0 -
Chuggernaut✭✭✭I would personally like bank space setup like DDO, where each character has his own pack and bank space, and all your characters share a smaller transfer vault. I don't need my alts to have access to my main's banked weapons/armor or mats for that matter, but would like a place to transfer equipment around with.My comrades have returned. I erect the spine of gratitude. You are a hero today. - Bura-Natoo0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I get that some of you are OK with the current system, but clearly many are not. Thing is, as I said before, if ZOS increased inventory space for everyone, it doesn't harm you at all
ZOS uses inventory system to limit player ability to train multiple crafts at once, instead the usual way MMO's limit crafting by putting in a hard cap on how many crafts i can learn.
If they switch from the inventory way of limiting crafting, and instead implement the hard cap way, that would harm me.
False, no MMO I have ever played had any limits on how many crafts you could level with one char.
World of warcraft? Star wars the old republic? Guild wars 2? Age of conan?
Just because you have not played them does not mean that my statement("the usual way for MMO's is to limit crafting by putting a hard cap on how many crafts a character can learn") is false.Edited by Sharee on March 30, 2015 10:07AM1 -
I_killed_Vivec✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm a hoarder, also master crafter in all 6, and I don't have any problems. I use three mules, one for blacksmithing (all traits, all styles - even stuff I don't use, "just in case"), one for food (uses half as many slots as pre 1.6) and one for drink and alchemy (again, fewer slots than pre 1.6). I foolishly decided pre 1.6 to get a full set of all alchemy reagents, just in case they finally made good use of more than the six or so components of just about every worthwhile potion.
In my bank I keep all my enchanting components (I haven't bothered sorting out which essences I don't use). I keep some spare bits of gear, processed crafting materials, everything I need for writs (food, drink and potions ready made).
I keep on me raw materials plus 3 alchemy reagents (so I can always pick up even if my bag is full), but my "fighting weight" is around 15 items - 1 food, 3 potions, 4 raw mats, 3 alchemy reagents, cloud mist, soul gems, empty soul gems, lockpicks, leaving full capacity for picking stuff up:)
Also, I haven't maxed out on my bag or bank - so while I use about 100 mule slots, if I streamlined and maxed out my allowances I'm sure I could cope without the mules.
I believe people like @Brandalf who say they can do it all on a single character, I think I could myself - if I lost that "might come in use someday" mentality
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Valencer✭✭✭✭✭
✭pecheckler wrote: »People claiming they craft all professions and have room in the bank without alternate characters to hold stuff are full of ***.
You can do it, just takes lots of time. Unfortunately, most people lack the time (or the desire) to play the endless inventory shuffling mini-game. The game shouldn't, heck, must not only cater to the no-lifers who play the game for 8hrs+ a day, for surely that is the path to FTP and closure. The thing is, if ZOS doubles inventory space, the obsessive and unemployed fans will still play the game. ZOS could hand them a paper bag mostly filled with dog poop and say "here's your storage from now on" and they'd still play (and rationalise why it was a great idea). But keeping the inventory system unnecessarily small, fiddly and time consuming will definitely scare off many of the more casual players. Thus increasing inventory space and/or improving the inventory management system is the only logical decision.
Seriously? I mean, really? The game caters to no-lifers because inventory space?
None of that made any sense.2 -
sigsergv✭✭✭✭If you refine, you don't need to clog your bank up with 27 different unrefined materials. Similarly, the basic style mats can be picked up from vendor for loose change if you need to free up more space.
I absolutely agree it'd be nice to see all trophies taken out of inventory though (and preferably disguises too, since costumes have been separated).
I collect materials by my second character and refining by the main. So I NEED to store raw mats in the bank. Also I'm making sets, and there are no vendors near the set station. Also I need style mats for writs etc. So I have to store them.0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you refine, you don't need to clog your bank up with 27 different unrefined materials. Similarly, the basic style mats can be picked up from vendor for loose change if you need to free up more space.
I absolutely agree it'd be nice to see all trophies taken out of inventory though (and preferably disguises too, since costumes have been separated).
I collect materials by my second character and refining by the main. So I NEED to store raw mats in the bank.
You don't collect 9 different ores at once tho, do you. An alt that collects resources for refinement as he plays usually collects four at most(ore wood leather and cloth), seven if you are a completioninst (some zones have 2 different material tiers, altho the vast majority is of one type). So at most 7 free bank slots, temporarily, is all you need to be able to transfer raw mats to main for refinement.
Normally when i do this, i keep the raw materials in the inventory of the alt that is doing the collecting, and whenever i visit the bank i split the stack to have one pile divisible by 10, put that one in the bank, log in main, pick the ore up, and process it. No need for having bank slots permanently clogged by raw materials.Also I'm making sets, and there are no vendors near the set station. Also I need style mats for writs etc. So I have to store them.
All you need for writs is one pile of style mats, writs do not care what style the item is (i have a stack of starmetal myself for this purpose). As for making sets, i buy the style mats from a vendor before venturing forth to the crafting station - just as many as i need for the crafting (if i am going to craft a non-redguard style of course, otherwise my stack of starmetal has me covered). No need for a permanent storage.0 -
Belazaar✭✭skeletorz_ESO wrote: »
I disagree. I think those things do, in fact, help to enrich the system. Besides, it's a much simpler fix for them to just double our bank space. Everyone should just get what they've already paid for. If you have 240 now, you would have 480 afterward. 100 now, 200 later, and so on.
I have 4 vet characters that all craft and I craft for people in the guild, so I keep materials of all levels.
Either double the inventory or I would rather the GW2 common crafting bank.
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wolonggong_ESOSoul ShrivenMy V14 does all 6 crafts. I don't use any mules and I don't even have maxed bag or bank space. I don't get how some people have so much trouble, I can only conclude that people with such severe inventory management issues are super hoarders. Especially now that so many things stack up to 200 and the amount of provisioning ingredients has been been reduced so much.
Bull.
With all the different types of materials you are talking over 250 pack spaces and limited to one stack of each...so what are you doing? Running around the game with a full bank and pack? Because that is what you would have to do with so many items.
To the rest of the thread.
Yes, this game has serious pack space issues and has been a major drawback since the beginning. Either crafting materials should have their own pack separate from the main pack or pack space increases should be increases of 20 instead of 10 at their current prices.
Makes no sense at all to create a great crafting system and then punish people that want to actually take part in it.1 -
coryevans_3b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭My V14 does all 6 crafts. I don't use any mules and I don't even have maxed bag or bank space. I don't get how some people have so much trouble, I can only conclude that people with such severe inventory management issues are super hoarders. Especially now that so many things stack up to 200 and the amount of provisioning ingredients has been been reduced so much.
Ya, you're lying through your teeth or trolling. I don't have bank space issues too often, but just with provisioning, enchanting, and alchemist on one toon, it comes very close at times.0 -
smacx250✭✭✭✭✭
No, I'm not - I'm a master craftsman (lvl 50 in all crafts). The only things I put on a mule are disguises and trophies (they are useless but are unique so I want to keep them), and they don't come along too often so it isn't a time sink. I keep all runes, stones, and tempers, but only the alchemy for my oft-crafted potions. Everything else I get I sell (including metal/wood/cloth after I refine them), and then buy or farm them when needed. Neither my horse or bank is maxed - plenty of space to pick up loot.pecheckler wrote: »People claiming they craft all professions and have room in the bank without alternate characters to hold stuff are full of ***.0 -
tallenn✭✭✭Eliteseraph wrote: »As a relatively new player I have to admit that one of the most frustrating and irritating aspect of the game is managing all the stupid little ingredients that picked up along the way of normal question adventuring. I spend just as much time in town crafting and consuming the materials I gather as I do in the world playing the rest of the game. This isn't necessarily the way I would like to play the game since I am forced to return to town in order to unload and use the materials I've gathered in order to continue question because I have run out of inventory space.
I like the crafting system in the game but I don't like the way that inventory management takes up so much of my time. IMHO the inventory management mini game is a waste of time and attracts from the rest of the game that actually wants to play. I don't personally believe that inventory management serves any real purpose other than to waste time and artificially extend the life span of a game.
I would gladly welcome a change to the game which minimize or removed messing around with bag space. I can't even imagine the nightmare that console players are going to go through with this issue.
And this is the biggest problem caused by this issue. New players see the inventory management issues, come to the forums to look into it, thinking maybe there is a better way to deal with it, find threads like this, and think, "lol no thanks. I'll just find a game that doesn't limit my inventory this way."
There are TONS. I have played several MMOs, and none of them have felt anywhere near as limiting as this one for inventory management. Some have been tough at early levels, but always it has opened up as you got closer to the end game, whether by being able to buy the larger bags, or so on, but on all of them you noticed marked improvement within just a few levels. For example, in WoW, a brand new character stared with just 16 inventory spaces, which could be quite limiting, but by the time they made around level 20 (a couple days, typically), they could afford a full set of decent bags, and really no longer had any inventory issues. All of the other games I've played were similar in that regard. Not to mention that in almost all of them, there was plenty of character-specific bank space.
I agree with the poster that said inventory management and lack of an auction house were the exact reason they quit paying a sub. I'm exactly the same. The only reason I'm back is there's not a sub. If they'd fixed the inventory and market issues I had, I'd be happy to pay a sub, even now. I'd never have left. But I'm not going to pay for the opportunity to waste my time micro-managing my inventories, and looking through dozens of different stores for what I want.2 -
tallenn✭✭✭If you refine, you don't need to clog your bank up with 27 different unrefined materials. Similarly, the basic style mats can be picked up from vendor for loose change if you need to free up more space.
I absolutely agree it'd be nice to see all trophies taken out of inventory though (and preferably disguises too, since costumes have been separated).
I collect materials by my second character and refining by the main. So I NEED to store raw mats in the bank.
You don't collect 9 different ores at once tho, do you. An alt that collects resources for refinement as he plays usually collects four at most(ore wood leather and cloth), seven if you are a completioninst (some zones have 2 different material tiers, altho the vast majority is of one type). So at most 7 free bank slots, temporarily, is all you need to be able to transfer raw mats to main for refinement.
Normally when i do this, i keep the raw materials in the inventory of the alt that is doing the collecting, and whenever i visit the bank i split the stack to have one pile divisible by 10, put that one in the bank, log in main, pick the ore up, and process it. No need for having bank slots permanently clogged by raw materials.Also I'm making sets, and there are no vendors near the set station. Also I need style mats for writs etc. So I have to store them.
All you need for writs is one pile of style mats, writs do not care what style the item is (i have a stack of starmetal myself for this purpose). As for making sets, i buy the style mats from a vendor before venturing forth to the crafting station - just as many as i need for the crafting (if i am going to craft a non-redguard style of course, otherwise my stack of starmetal has me covered). No need for a permanent storage.
That's exactly the problem, though. What you're recommending is using your other characters as mules that you have to move materials to and from, and usually constantly. This is what we're already doing. This is what we want to STOP doing, because it's taking a considerable chunk of our play time. I play an MMO to go adventuring, not micro-manage my inventory with 6 different alts.2 -
Nephys✭✭✭No, I'm not - I'm a master craftsman (lvl 50 in all crafts).
As a Master craftsman you do not need to level your crafts. As a new player on NA I am still leveling them and thus the need to keep mats as I find them is more intense. Armour and weapons too - to keep for the trait research.
The lack of inventory space is a pain in the posterior and those that refer to it being a mini-game in its own right have a point.
I also see that the same ZOS fanbois are still around in these forums (I do not refer to you here smacx250) supporting everything in the game, good or bad. These were the same ones who declared ESO would never go B/F2P and told people to leave if they didn't like it. Well people did vote with their feet and look - no subs.
I unsubbed months ago due to the weak bank system and the lack of an AH. The guild vendor system I already detest but I will give the game another go for now.
ZoS Ambassadors please do not bother responding to me because I have you on ignore. Your input is neither valued or welcomed.0 -
Kalman✭✭✭✭Just need more bank space. I hope they add purchasable bank space to the crown store. Don't like anything you suggested.0 -
Athas24✭✭✭✭Oh, and public dungeon trophies, and disguises, should be in the collections tab, rather than inventory/bank.
this to me is huge and would be more than enough to free up at least 20 slots or more in my overall inventory. Those trophies are carried by each character I have taking up bag space for each of them. That actually probably amounts to like 40+ slots on 4 characters or possibly more.
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WolfingHour✭✭✭✭Problems with inventory space due to food/drink ingredients. Really? My provisioning alt ended up having more bag space after the provi revamp and this is coming from a hoarder. The kind that nowadays lags behind in wayrest just to ransack everything.
Oh, and I fully agree on pushing quest trophies and disguises to a tab on the collections panel.0