To Everyone Complaining About Sorcerers

Germtrocity · March 2015

To all of you crying out about how sorcerer is easy mode, I issue you a challenge : roll a sorcerer and fight me, or any other skilled sorcerer

After the fight when you have been demolished, please go on to tell us how sorcerer is actually "easy mode"

I did the same thing in 1.4, and have a v14 DK as proof that the class used to be easy mode - I even played on it for a few months to hone my skills and was able to defeat other people considered skilled in their respective classes.

Sorcerer is not easy mode though, and hopefully people will take this challenge and then realize that the "OP - ness" comes from the players skill, not from the class they are playing - though I can understand why they would think it is the class they are playing because of how overpowered DKs used to be.

Draehl · March 2015

I wouldn't argue that it has a high skill cap and would very much agree with you. No one is scoffing at your skill for pulling off what you do. The problem is the level of offense, defense AND mobility a single build is able to achieve. Hardened Ward scales off offensive stats which allows strong offense + defense, and Ball Lightning is an amazingly strong escape tool that makes many forms of CC useless. No one character should have all three strengths covered regardless of player skill being required. You need to have legitimate weaknesses for other players to counter with. That is currently not the case and is what needs to be remedied.

Emma_Overload · March 2015

Agreed, nothing about the Sorc experience is "easy mode", certainly not after they nerfed light armor, Crushing Shock and Surge!

I think Sorcerers are the best at using weapon skills, because our class abilities have been so weak for so long. For example, it's possible to play effectively with nothing but 2H skills on your bar, but only a Sorc would do this, LOL.

Artemiisia · March 2015

the thing is, sorc was hard to learn because we always fall behind on dps, so we actually had to really improve our skills, so when a vr14 skilled sorc player suddenly gets some valid skills for pvp survivability, we can already adapt them into the skills we already have been harnessing for this last year.

thats why we harder to kill now, due to skill, and learning our class.

I have loved sorc for a year, and will love sorc for the next year

Mumyo · March 2015

lol, just listen to urself.

Germtrocity · March 2015

Mumyo wrote: »

lol, just listen to urself.

I read and reread my post before posting, did I miss anything? Or care to explain what you mean

Mumyo · March 2015

As a sorc it is definately not difficult to be successfull.
Pre 1.6 sorcerers needed good combos to burst their enemies down. Now they simply need some left clicks.
This is no offense, just to put this right but it is definately 100% easier now.
Now suddenly all the sorcs became so skilled because they practiced so hard xD, usually skill doesnt come overnight.

All the bad sorcerers that couldn't touch me are now facerolling Cyrodil and are suddenly so skilled, weird that the good ones were able to kill me before 1.6.

And a freshly leveled sorc, fighting a bit more experienced sorc doesnt tell anything about the classstrength or easyness.

Germtrocity · March 2015

Mumyo wrote: »

As a sorc it is definately not difficult to be successfull.
Pre 1.6 sorcerers needed good combos to burst their enemies down. Now they simply need some left clicks.
This is no offense, just to put this right but it is definately 100% easier now.
Now suddenly all the sorcs became so skilled because they practiced so hard xD, usually skill doesnt come overnight.

All the bad sorcerers that couldn't touch me are now facerolling Cyrodil and are suddenly so skilled, weird that the good ones were able to kill me before 1.6.

And a freshly leveled sorc, fighting a bit more experienced sorc doesnt tell anything about the classstrength or easyness.

Interesting, it sounds as if you may need to hone your build then or work on your own skill / coordination if you are getting facerolled by bad sorcerers, because I see sorcerers that are new to the class dying all the time.

And if it IS the class that is overpowered, your sorcerer should be fine. Within the first month of picking up the overpowered DK in 1.4 I was able to kill veterans to the class. As I said before, a lot of it has to do with personal skill. Not everyone's reaction times are the same - which plays a big part as well in the whole skill thing.

Like I said, take a step back and evaluate yourself before charging in with QQ and nerf bats.

Mumyo · March 2015

The challenge u offer, what shall it show? Just let it run through ur head again and again, are u able to show that ur class is not easy to rock with in cyrodil that way? I doubt it. because logic and things.

And pls no ladybeef. I know blabla im qq baby ok!

Ezareth · March 2015

I think with the existing game mechanics sorcs can be as powerful or even more powerful than any class. If they fix the issues relating to unlimited resources as I've suggested it will hurt sorcs the most and will bring more balance to the game. If they direct nerfs directly at sorcs they're addressing the effect and not the cause.

So many things are so unbalanced right now it's absurd. You can't focus on any one thing in isolation or you're making a major mistake.

golfer.dub17_ESO · March 2015

K, I'll get right on leveling a V14 Sorc...

I'd only merely dislike Sorcs due to their ridiculous skills and balance, but the fact people are whining about them being underpowered in spite of their slew of bull-ahem- puts me into a blind rage.

"NOTICE HOW EVERYONES RUNNING MEDIUM ARMOR + 2H CUZ ITS OP NAO LOL"

Maybe because they want to try out the new changes?
Maybe because it's not entirely worthless for once in a long time?

Like, causation-correlation fallacy much?

Cody · March 2015

The sorcerer is not an OP class. I know this because I have killed plenty of them; both in blackwater blade and some the last time I was in azuras star.

What people have a problem with is players stacking shields and having incredibly high defense while at the same time having incredibly high offense. That has nothing to do with one specific class. That is skill and mechanics.

A sorcerer is only a threat when they use overload or are behind a damage shield. Once the damage shield goes down, the sorc will go down fast; resulting in them dying or bolt escaping away.

vichoi · March 2015

@ Draehl.

All classes should able to do both dps and survibility, or there'll be no reason for anyone to choose that class,
and in ESO we have one extra ability, sorcerer have BE, NB have cloak, DK have reflect, Templar have damage shield. if you have problem with killing sorcerer, maybe you've built to counter other classes.

Ppl use 2 handed charge to counter sorc, like sorcerer use shield to counter DK reflect, every class have a weakness, just learn to counter them and you'll be fine, if you cannot counter all other classes with one build, it doesn't mean they're overpowered.

Artemiisia · March 2015

I always felt DK was the OP class, and they have had a good year, many of the people that are complaining about the sorc being to hard to kill, are DKs that have been left clickers since the game started and could tank 10 people at the same time in pvp.

Now for me personally, the game is more even for all classes, they all have there ups and downs, and there aint any op class anymore, and that I like.

Lava_Croft · March 2015

Sorcerer in 1.6 is Dragon Knight 2.0.

bloodenragedb14_ESO · March 2015

Germtrocity wrote: »

To all of you crying out about how sorcerer is easy mode, I issue you a challenge : roll a sorcerer and fight me, or any other skilled sorcerer

After the fight when you have been demolished, please go on to tell us how sorcerer is actually "easy mode"

I did the same thing in 1.4, and have a v14 DK as proof that the class used to be easy mode - I even played on it for a few months to hone my skills and was able to defeat other people considered skilled in their respective classes.

Sorcerer is not easy mode though, and hopefully people will take this challenge and then realize that the "OP - ness" comes from the players skill, not from the class they are playing - though I can understand why they would think it is the class they are playing because of how overpowered DKs used to be.

9 time out of 10 its a player's skill, the other time someone has bad lag.

the nerf crying is getting irritating, all it is is beacons to the posters lack of skill.

Derra · March 2015

Experienced sorc players squashing noob sorcs are the same bs as inexperienced sorc fighters proclaiming sorc OPness.

In 1.6 measurement for a good roaming build was the ability to beat a dk openfield (reasonably fast). Now sorcs are that benchmark.

You have to specifically build your char to beat a sorc - they are beatable if they choose to stay in the fight (if they run why does it bother you - same with nbs failing snipe and cloaking away at maxrange).
People don´t realize that sorc burst was not buffed but nerfed in 1.6. The only thing buffed was the ability to crit (not on block though) and a 40% nerf to hp-pools.

Rylana · March 2015

There is nothing wrong with Sorc.

Fairweather91 · March 2015

Buff Sorcs

pronkg · March 2015

A good NB or DK beats a sorc anytime

Derra · March 2015

pronkg wrote: »

A good NB or DK beats a sorc anytime

Both classes loose their zerging abilities in the process though :P
Also i don´t think they beat them anytime. Its a close call for stam builds. Magica the best thing NB and DK can hope for is a draw.

Germtrocity · March 2015

pronkg wrote: »

A good NB or DK beats a sorc anytime

To be fair, anyone who is good will beat someone less skilled (most of the time), if the playing field is even - regardless of the classes involved.

DisgracefulMind · March 2015

I changed to Sorcerer from DK at the end of 1.5. All I have to say, I facerolled people with my DK easily all the time, and still can with my stam DK if I ever get on her. It's not so easy for my Sorc.

I practice pretty relentlessly on Sorc to keep up with my partner, and it DEFINITELY takes a lot more skill than my DK ever did. I love Sorc just for that alone, the skill it takes.

I think too many people have a MAJOR l2p issue going on with Sorcs lol. I die all the time to your snipes and wrecking blows, what's the problem here?

LegendaryMage · March 2015

Germtrocity wrote: »

pronkg wrote: »

A good NB or DK beats a sorc anytime

To be fair, anyone who is good will beat someone less skilled (most of the time), if the playing field is even - regardless of the classes involved.

You up for some duels on pts?

Nivzruo_ESO · March 2015

This is why we need an Lol button. my god these poor sorcs think they are skilled now for using ward...

RinaldoGandolphi · March 2015

I have played one character since beta and launch which is a sorc. It's all I have really played.

Sorcs are not OP in the slightest. Give me an uncapped Streak back that builds ultimate without a 50% cost increase nor blanket cc immunity, and then we would be.

After the Sorc took major hits with the Nerf bat, I stuck around, sucked it up, and continued to play a class that was at a disadvantage in pvp against every other class for months.i didn't roll another class i stuck with it.

Now that sorcs are actually on level playing field again folks think they are OP because they got too used to fighting against a sorc class that was underpowered and gimped for months.

Rylana · March 2015

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I changed to Sorcerer from DK at the end of 1.5. All I have to say, I facerolled people with my DK easily all the time, and still can with my stam DK if I ever get on her. It's not so easy for my Sorc.

I practice pretty relentlessly on Sorc to keep up with my partner, and it DEFINITELY takes a lot more skill than my DK ever did. I love Sorc just for that alone, the skill it takes.

I think too many people have a MAJOR l2p issue going on with Sorcs lol. I die all the time to your snipes and wrecking blows, what's the problem here?

Having v14s in all four classes, with weeks worth of /played on each of them, i gotta say that sorc is the hardest class to master. But once mastered, it has the potential to be the most powerful class in the game.

I always get a kick out of DKs are OP threads, or anything is OP threads. DK has always had the same basic weaknesses throughout ESO. They can be kited mercilessly, and there aint a thing they can do about it. Even if you cant kill the dk, you as a sorc can ensure there is no way in hell that DK ever kills you.

Nightblade is probably the most dangerous class for a sorc to face, not because of "burst" damage or crowd control abilities, but because when built for it, its the only class other than a sorc that can keep up with one.

Templars just get screwed in this rock paper scissors. Neither should ever die to each other, but templar has no prayer of beating an on par played sorc.

So the way I see it.

Sorc v Sorc is a wash, whoever is better
Sorc v DK favors the Sorc if the Sorc is built specifically to kill DKs, otherwise the Sorc is either going to die or going to run.
Sorc v NB favors the NB in most builds (especially if its the standard magicka LA sorc vs stamina med bow/dw nb).
Sorc v Templar rarely gets decided, both classes has so much built in shielding (and temp heals while lacking range to keep up with bolt escape)

So yeah, in a lot of cases its learn to play, but with mastered classes, there is a strong argument that Sorc is the most powerful of the classes in the right hands.

Germtrocity · March 2015

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Germtrocity wrote: »

pronkg wrote: »

A good NB or DK beats a sorc anytime

To be fair, anyone who is good will beat someone less skilled (most of the time), if the playing field is even - regardless of the classes involved.

You up for some duels on pts?

Yeah

Draehl · March 2015

Rylana wrote: »

So the way I see it.

Sorc v Sorc is a wash, whoever is better
Sorc v DK favors the Sorc if the Sorc is built specifically to kill DKs, otherwise the Sorc is either going to die or going to run.
Sorc v NB favors the NB in most builds (especially if its the standard magicka LA sorc vs stamina med bow/dw nb).
Sorc v Templar rarely gets decided, both classes has so much built in shielding (and temp heals while lacking range to keep up with bolt escape)

So yeah, in a lot of cases its learn to play, but with mastered classes, there is a strong argument that Sorc is the most powerful of the classes in the right hands.

All assuming everyone is playing a glass cannon/1vX type build. Sorcs completely dump all over any sort of dedicated attrition build while still having strong attrition themselves. We don't have a chance in hell to get through your hardened ward since we aren't bursting, yet you can often put together enough spike damage to take us out even if we're in heavy armor. All the while you maintain pretty solid regen rates. It makes no sense. I actually have to make defensive sacrifices as a NB caster if I want to put together some burst. Likewise, I have to give up burst to have any level of meaningful defense. If we try to straddle the line between offense and defense like you are currently able to do, we fail at both.

Sorcs currently aren't required to focus on anything. Just pump Spellpower/Magicka and have a decent amount of health and your skills take care of the rest for you. It reminds me of WoW frost Mages when they were in their prime. Good burst (not the best, but close) with some pretty amazing defensive skills/cooldowns. No real downside. Then compare to Affliction Warlocks- a playstyle dedicated to sustained damage/longer fights- yet the Mage burst build has better defenses, not to mention the general utility of burst being more valuable for taking out key targets vs. slow DoT damage.

I'm not blaming y'all. Sorcs have a high skill cap for sure, but I wish MMO developers would learn their lesson about making sure every class/build has specific strengths and weaknesses. I don't know if its ignorance or they're playing favorites, but its getting frustrating being a defensive/sustain minded player and seeing these burst builds in multiple MMOs handed everything on a silver platter.

Teargrants · March 2015

Draehl wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

So the way I see it.

Sorc v Sorc is a wash, whoever is better
Sorc v DK favors the Sorc if the Sorc is built specifically to kill DKs, otherwise the Sorc is either going to die or going to run.
Sorc v NB favors the NB in most builds (especially if its the standard magicka LA sorc vs stamina med bow/dw nb).
Sorc v Templar rarely gets decided, both classes has so much built in shielding (and temp heals while lacking range to keep up with bolt escape)

So yeah, in a lot of cases its learn to play, but with mastered classes, there is a strong argument that Sorc is the most powerful of the classes in the right hands.

All assuming everyone is playing a glass cannon/1vX type build. Sorcs completely dump all over any sort of dedicated attrition build while still having strong attrition themselves. We don't have a chance in hell to get through your hardened ward since we aren't bursting, yet you can often put together enough spike damage to take us out even if we're in heavy armor. All the while you maintain pretty solid regen rates. It makes no sense. I actually have to make defensive sacrifices as a NB caster if I want to put together some burst. Likewise, I have to give up burst to have any level of meaningful defense. If we try to straddle the line between offense and defense like you are currently able to do, we fail at both.

Sorcs currently aren't required to focus on anything. Just pump Spellpower/Magicka and have a decent amount of health and your skills take care of the rest for you. It reminds me of WoW frost Mages when they were in their prime. Good burst (not the best, but close) with some pretty amazing defensive skills/cooldowns. No real downside. Then compare to Affliction Warlocks- a playstyle dedicated to sustained damage/longer fights- yet the Mage burst build has better defenses, not to mention the general utility of burst being more valuable for taking out key targets vs. slow DoT damage.

I'm not blaming y'all. Sorcs have a high skill cap for sure, but I wish MMO developers would learn their lesson about making sure every class/build has specific strengths and weaknesses. I don't know if its ignorance or they're playing favorites, but its getting frustrating being a defensive/sustain minded player and seeing these burst builds in multiple MMOs handed everything on a silver platter.

Long winded, but completely missing the point. If you aren't playing a burst build, you don't flail away at the shields, you attack their stamina. A CC'd sorc cannot cast shields and will die in one dmg rotation of they don't CC break immediately.

You think sorcs like me just pump everything into spell dmg/magicka like potatoes and proceed to face roll the keyboard? Wrong. I have to put everything I can into high magicka and stamina regen above all else, or else I get CC'd and die when I can't break.

AltusVenifus · March 2015

LOL. issue a challenge, roll a class that u haven't played and fight me on the same OP class I have played for a year plus and I will show u how they are not overpowered and it is all player skill?

That is your challenge. You have to be kidding me. In what way does this even remotely prove that a sorc is not unbalanced? LOL. LOL. LOL. Very logically.

If you really wanted to prove this, your challenge; should be

Fight 10 sorcs in a duel. Record duels.

Challenge the same sorcs to duels, but you are restricted, and cannot use your class shields (and streak if you think that plays into them being considered OP). Have 10 fights in a row with continuous recording.

If you win more duels or the same amount, it will prove shields are not OP and it is player skill.

When u lose more duels that the baseline established, it will prove that OP skills are effecting the gameplay.

My prediction is you will lose a lot of duels without shields, but would love to see it.