oRioNoTime wrote: »

Every day I'm reading tons of posts regarding the VR, why do you hate them so much?
Why they have to be removed?
I really can't understand it.

smokes wrote: »

-snip-

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

I've said on a few occasions when this conversation comes up. I was never mad at having to do Cadwells Silver or Gold. I was mad that the premise was "you'll relive events".

It was sloppy writing that gave a shaky premise. If my hero was solving problems throughout Tamriel because of his reputation and his power, that would have been a different story. Silver and Gold could have been a logical step in end-game but came off as trite and rushed. Even though my alliance was at war with the others, just a bit of writing and voice acting to say "We face these struggles, you have proven even handed at the gathering against Molag Bal, please, help us." would have been enough to suspend some of my disbelief. However, that wasn't the case and instead we're forced to "relive events as if we landed somewhere else" and that is what ticks me off.

Interesting. And logical comment

Why not just have us move into Cyrodil PvE instead? Like a PvE version of the PvP map. Obviously with story continuation and PvE quests etc. heck even dailies, weeklies and alliance PvE efforts

Thoughts?
*I get that some want the option to do silver and gold quests but what if I don't....why force it on people due to lack of content?

Tonturri wrote: »

I like alt characters. I see no reason why I should have to quest through two factions worth of zones to get to the content I actually care about. I've already intend to do all the quests, dolmens, delves and whatnot on one character - what makes anyone think I would want to do that -twice-? Or three times? Or 8?

I have one character who I intend to do everything on - my sorcerer. SHe's just starting on Daggerfall quests, and I'm having a great time doing whatever quest I want when I feel like it. She's already VR14, so there's no rush.

It was enjoyable the first time, I won't deny that. However, it does in no way mean I want to quest through all three factions zones + Craglorn quests and then a agonizingly painful grind for the remaining VR levels whenever I want to level a new character to play end game with.

smokes wrote: »

oRioNoTime wrote: »

What if it was lvl 64 instead of 50+vr14 xD
It is normal in a MMO to have most of the zones of different level.

it would still be the same grind and fall foul of exactly the same issues. it would change absolutely nothing other than an arbritary numbering system.

the issue with the VR 1-10 content is the virtual brick wall to any end game
if you want to play the other factions, you can reroll a new character and see EXACTLY the same content from level 1.
cadwells silver and gold should have been optional side content for completionists and skillpoint hunters, or something to do whilst waiting fow new content. not mandatory levelling content to see craglorn.
it created a grind wall for pvp - players who exploited or grinded their way to VR14 dominated cyrodiil for a very long time and most likely still do, leading many players who fell behind the curve by levelling normally to feel they need to grind their way to VR14 in order to be competitive on the battlefield.

leaving cyrodiil at a level playing field of level 50, would've let everyone feel equal in power once reaching max level - leaving only build and gear separation as the difference in power - but as it was implemented, everyone hit VR1, felt underpowered in comparison to the VR10+ players and quit, as you would either have to midlessly grind mobs to level, exploit, or essentially play the game through to completion 2 more times in order to be on an equal power level - sans gear and build. i know many people who quit at VR1-4 and are awaiting the removal of the vet system before coming back - my girlfriend is one of them.

if you've never played an mmo before, levelling is the first part on a long journey. endgame is where the game really starts to come into it's own - as in most mmo's, levelling is mostly a single player experience, much like any other RPG game out there, but the real MMO part of the genre doesn't start until you reach level cap.

many people came into ESO expecting the level cap to be 50, with gear and builds making up the power differentials beyond that. there was not a great deal of information on the endgame announced before launch, other than craglorn and veteran levels. so a lot of people bought into ESO expecting to hit level 50, then pvp on a level playing field until craglorn was released.

what actually happened, was that a lot of people "rushed" to VR1, started pvp'ing and found lots of people had grinded, botted or otherwise exploited their way to VR10. these VR10's then absolutely annihilated anyone of lower level, not only did the VR ranks make a considerable difference, but also the craftable gear they were able to wear - as you have to remember, with the restricted amounts of high quality armor upgrade materials that drop throughout the levelling process, a lot of people will save their crafting mats until max level - which they thought was 50, but no, it was VR10 - which was 2 more full playthroughs of the game away, through opposing factions, in order to become competitive on the battlefield.

so yea...

people tend to only want to play their faction of choice, hit max level, then start the gearing process - either through crafting, pvp or trials/dungeons.

people generally dont want to feel forced out of their chosen endgame activity (pvp/trials) by having to play the entire game through 2 more times, in order to catch up to those who grinded or exploited their way to VR10-14.

whilst you could blame the grinders for not playing the game properly, the exploiters for cheating or even zenimax for not rolling back the players - what you really have to blame is the VR system itself and the mandatory inclusion of both other factions storylines in order to reach endgame content. i.e. a level playing field in pvp, trials and craglorn.

other things worth mentioning:
yes i know you can get into craglorn at VR1, but in the original ptr build, it was VR10
cyrodiil was initially balanced at level 50 - mobs, ores, herbs, delves etc and later buffed due to the grinders, exploiters and hardcore never leave the housers
cadwells silver and gold provisioning mats were all level 50 until a later patch.

the horrible thing here, is that cadwells silver and gold were not in the original game, it was added near the end of beta at the request of players wanting to experience the other factions without needing to reroll an alt. the problem was, implementing that idea so close to release meant applying the veteran system intended to be tacked onto craglorn, to the cadwells quests instead - which just kinda exacerbated everything.

i commend the developers for adding that additional content - as it could provide hours of additional content at very little development cost if implemented correctly, but instead it ended up costing them the subscription model.

honestly though, i think the same problems would've been evident once craglorn was released, but the power creep wouldn't have been so obvious and would've been a lot less daunting to catch up upon.

edit: i think overall the champion system is a much better player progression system than VR levels - however, i think zenimax need to keep tabs on it and not let those who grind or exploit, specifically for the power gains from CP, get too far ahead of other players.

if more content is to be released, there should be softcaps in place which can be raised on release of new content - but hopefully, these already exist.