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Siege damage.
Khyras
✭✭✭
Get this through your thick skulls:
When i go to PvP, getting killed by massive NPC or siege weapon damage or anything else except for a player using his skills is completely unacceptable.Getting one shotted by ranged aoe damage siege weapon doing 26k damage is not PvP,its target practice.Remove the cheapshotting mechanics from PvP,its not fun, its frustrating and it only makes me want to quit PvP.
First it was vet rank NPCs,now its replaced by siege weapons, you people simply refuse to learn.Its is possible for a smaller group to defeat larger group or a zerg without god damn siege weapons, i have seen it many times,by maneuvering,coordinating and using group fight tactics not idiotic,mindless siege weapon spam.Its not PvP anymore, its siege weapons war sim.
When i go to PvP, getting killed by massive NPC or siege weapon damage or anything else except for a player using his skills is completely unacceptable.Getting one shotted by ranged aoe damage siege weapon doing 26k damage is not PvP,its target practice.Remove the cheapshotting mechanics from PvP,its not fun, its frustrating and it only makes me want to quit PvP.
First it was vet rank NPCs,now its replaced by siege weapons, you people simply refuse to learn.Its is possible for a smaller group to defeat larger group or a zerg without god damn siege weapons, i have seen it many times,by maneuvering,coordinating and using group fight tactics not idiotic,mindless siege weapon spam.Its not PvP anymore, its siege weapons war sim.
11
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FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Get this through your thick skulls:
When i go to PvP, getting killed by massive NPC or siege weapon damage or anything else except for a player using his skills is completely unacceptable.Getting one shotted by ranged aoe damage siege weapon doing 26k damage is not PvP,its target practice.Remove the cheapshotting mechanics from PvP,its not fun, its frustrating and it only makes me want to quit PvP.
First it was vet rank NPCs,now its replaced by siege weapons, you people simply refuse to learn.Its is possible for a smaller group to defeat larger group or a zerg without god damn siege weapons, i have seen it many times,by maneuvering,coordinating and using group fight tactics not idiotic,mindless siege weapon spam.Its not PvP anymore, its siege weapons war sim.
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Khyras✭✭✭
Nice selfie.Get this through your thick skulls:
When i go to PvP, getting killed by massive NPC or siege weapon damage or anything else except for a player using his skills is completely unacceptable.Getting one shotted by ranged aoe damage siege weapon doing 26k damage is not PvP,its target practice.Remove the cheapshotting mechanics from PvP,its not fun, its frustrating and it only makes me want to quit PvP.
First it was vet rank NPCs,now its replaced by siege weapons, you people simply refuse to learn.Its is possible for a smaller group to defeat larger group or a zerg without god damn siege weapons, i have seen it many times,by maneuvering,coordinating and using group fight tactics not idiotic,mindless siege weapon spam.Its not PvP anymore, its siege weapons war sim.
7 -
PainfulFAFA✭✭✭✭✭
✭There are plenty of solutions to this but people refuse to try other things.
If you're attacking a keep after yesterday's IMPROVEMENTS you need to rethink the "standard protocol" of attacking keeps.
Bubbles will need to be placed.
Purges will need to be cast.
Siege weapons will need to be countered by siege weapons.
Walls will need to be brought down much quicker (and they will with the increased damage)
Every individual in that attack must participate in the action whether its through support roles, offensive roles, or defensive roles.
Every group will need to think twice before zerging through a breach.
Every vampire will need to think THRICE before storming through a keep.
Oh you're lagging because they're stacking up? Here you go, enjoy this fire ballista.
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IcyDeadPeople✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭its siege weapons war sim.
IMO, even since the PTS this always felt like the essence of ESO. I don't see it as a role playing game, and the PVE is not as fun for me compared to the single player TES games.
The only part of this game I enjoy is Cyrodiil, and it has always felt like a huge medieval siege warfare simulation game in an Elder Scrolls setting. The focus of the game is on assaulting and defending keeps and strategic resources; however, with plenty of room for smaller scale battles.
I'd say this patch has introduced an element of novelty to the game. It might grow old, but currently the dynamic and flow of larger battles feels a lot different than it did yesterday. Certainly less people grouping up in one spot.
.Edited by IcyDeadPeople on March 24, 2015 8:09PM4 -
Orchish✭✭✭✭✭
✭Get this through your thick skulls:
When i go to PvP, getting killed by massive NPC or siege weapon damage or anything else except for a player using his skills is completely unacceptable.Getting one shotted by ranged aoe damage siege weapon doing 26k damage is not PvP,its target practice.Remove the cheapshotting mechanics from PvP,its not fun, its frustrating and it only makes me want to quit PvP.
First it was vet rank NPCs,now its replaced by siege weapons, you people simply refuse to learn.Its is possible for a smaller group to defeat larger group or a zerg without god damn siege weapons, i have seen it many times,by maneuvering,coordinating and using group fight tactics not idiotic,mindless siege weapon spam.Its not PvP anymore, its siege weapons war sim.
Nope. You get this through your head. Before now siege was utterly patheti,. Players just standing completely still every time siege hit them knowing full well they were not in danger. Now you can actually start taking notice of those shiny red circles that you always ignore and perhaps start using your roll dodge to avoid said circles?
Clearly your madness has taken over because i see plenty of PvP as well as awesome sieges. Not to mention for the first time in months we can actually break up the mindless zergs running around and lagging out the server on a daily basis.Edited by Orchish on March 24, 2015 8:10PM3 -
Khyras✭✭✭PainfulFAFA wrote: »There are plenty of solutions to this but people refuse to try other things.
If you're attacking a keep after yesterday's IMPROVEMENTS you need to rethink the "standard protocol" of attacking keeps.
Bubbles will need to be placed.
Purges will need to be cast.
Siege weapons will need to be countered by siege weapons.
Walls will need to be brought down much quicker (and they will with the increased damage)
Every individual in that attack must participate in the action whether its through support roles, offensive roles, or defensive roles.
Every group will need to think twice before zerging through a breach.
Every vampire will need to think THRICE before storming through a keep.
Oh you're lagging because they're stacking up? Here you go, enjoy this fire ballista.
People are getting killed by siege weapons even when they do all of those things,because of multiple sige weapon users spamming aoe on the same spot.Moreover getting one shot by siege weapon aoe damage spamming noob in pvp is just plain wrong and illogical, its a matter of principle,if he wants to kill someone he should actually make some effort and work for it.I mean, i understand that you should get killed when you, for example, run into a keep exactly when enemy player is pooring oil on you but running around trying to avoid red circles for 20 minutes while trying to get to enemy to actually pvp is extremely idiotic."Use siege or GTFO" policy is a *** pvp design,nothing else.
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Domander✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Maybe you should just stick to ganking in between keep battles if you don't want to deal with siege.PainfulFAFA wrote: »There are plenty of solutions to this but people refuse to try other things.
If you're attacking a keep after yesterday's IMPROVEMENTS you need to rethink the "standard protocol" of attacking keeps.
Bubbles will need to be placed.
Purges will need to be cast.
Siege weapons will need to be countered by siege weapons.
Walls will need to be brought down much quicker (and they will with the increased damage)
Every individual in that attack must participate in the action whether its through support roles, offensive roles, or defensive roles.
Every group will need to think twice before zerging through a breach.
Every vampire will need to think THRICE before storming through a keep.
Oh you're lagging because they're stacking up? Here you go, enjoy this fire ballista.
People are getting killed by siege weapons even when they do all of those things,because of multiple sige weapon users spamming aoe on the same spot.Moreover getting one shot by siege weapon aoe damage spamming noob in pvp is just plain wrong and illogical, its a matter of principle,if he wants to kill someone he should actually make some effort and work for it.I mean, i understand that you should get killed when you, for example, run into a keep exactly when enemy player is pooring oil on you but running around trying to avoid red circles for 20 minutes while trying to get to enemy to actually pvp is extremely idiotic."Use siege or GTFO" policy is a *** pvp design,nothing else.
It's funny how many players fight down range of siege, all "skill" but no strategy.
Edited by Domander on March 24, 2015 8:25PM3 -
PainfulFAFA✭✭✭✭✭
✭PainfulFAFA wrote: »There are plenty of solutions to this but people refuse to try other things.
If you're attacking a keep after yesterday's IMPROVEMENTS you need to rethink the "standard protocol" of attacking keeps.
Bubbles will need to be placed.
Purges will need to be cast.
Siege weapons will need to be countered by siege weapons.
Walls will need to be brought down much quicker (and they will with the increased damage)
Every individual in that attack must participate in the action whether its through support roles, offensive roles, or defensive roles.
Every group will need to think twice before zerging through a breach.
Every vampire will need to think THRICE before storming through a keep.
Oh you're lagging because they're stacking up? Here you go, enjoy this fire ballista.
People are getting killed by siege weapons even when they do all of those things,because of multiple sige weapon users spamming aoe on the same spot.Moreover getting one shot by siege weapon aoe damage spamming noob in pvp is just plain wrong and illogical, its a matter of principle,if he wants to kill someone he should actually make some effort and work for it.I mean, i understand that you should get killed when you, for example, run into a keep exactly when enemy player is pooring oil on you but running around trying to avoid red circles for 20 minutes while trying to get to enemy to actually pvp is extremely idiotic."Use siege or GTFO" policy is a *** pvp design,nothing else.
I still don't understand the issue.... if they're siegeing you down from up the walls, why don't you simply do the same?
Get a fire Treb up and counter siege them, you can't solo a wall down to 0% now if it has at least 1 smart defender.
The very dynamics of charging through a breach like a potato has changed. You're gonna need to have siege shields, purges and stuff on you, or your team.
Looks like a L2P issue to me.Edited by PainfulFAFA on March 24, 2015 8:25PM6 -
RedShirtRob✭✭I like the increased siege damage, but I think it may be a little too high, now; it certainly was too low before yesterday.
To the OP - people don't really listen if you begin your message with "Get this through your thick skulls". Sheesh...2 -
AbraXuSeXile✭✭✭✭✭
✭This game is *** now, Siege damage is way too much. Everything is just siege weapons, There is literally no PvP anymore, Its just sieges as far as the eye can see.
Edited by AbraXuSeXile on March 24, 2015 8:25PMAbraXuS
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Crashing an EP Wedding | DK Emp | 1vX | Between Enemy Lines | Hate Video | 5 v Many6 -
shebali✭✭✭PainfulFAFA wrote: »There are plenty of solutions to this but people refuse to try other things.
If you're attacking a keep after yesterday's IMPROVEMENTS you need to rethink the "standard protocol" of attacking keeps.
Bubbles will need to be placed.
Purges will need to be cast.
Siege weapons will need to be countered by siege weapons.
Walls will need to be brought down much quicker (and they will with the increased damage)
Every individual in that attack must participate in the action whether its through support roles, offensive roles, or defensive roles.
Every group will need to think twice before zerging through a breach.
Every vampire will need to think THRICE before storming through a keep.
Oh you're lagging because they're stacking up? Here you go, enjoy this fire ballista.
People are getting killed by siege weapons even when they do all of those things,because of multiple sige weapon users spamming aoe on the same spot.Moreover getting one shot by siege weapon aoe damage spamming noob in pvp is just plain wrong and illogical, its a matter of principle,if he wants to kill someone he should actually make some effort and work for it.I mean, i understand that you should get killed when you, for example, run into a keep exactly when enemy player is pooring oil on you but running around trying to avoid red circles for 20 minutes while trying to get to enemy to actually pvp is extremely idiotic."Use siege or GTFO" policy is a *** pvp design,nothing else.
I have no clue what everyone is qq'ing about. Maybe the lag is making hard for others to play. I died to siege Zero times last night with 4 hours of playing and fighting. There is such a long time with siege from when you see the red area of death. Also, most of the QQ is from Vamps, which I am a vamp and have zero problems with these changes.
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Khyras✭✭✭Before now siege was utterly patheti,.
Good.Making them usable only on keep doors and walls would be ideal for me.0 -
StienDeath✭✭✭PainfulFAFA wrote: »There are plenty of solutions to this but people refuse to try other things.
If you're attacking a keep after yesterday's IMPROVEMENTS you need to rethink the "standard protocol" of attacking keeps.
Bubbles will need to be placed.
Purges will need to be cast.
Siege weapons will need to be countered by siege weapons.
Walls will need to be brought down much quicker (and they will with the increased damage)
Every individual in that attack must participate in the action whether its through support roles, offensive roles, or defensive roles.
Every group will need to think twice before zerging through a breach.
Every vampire will need to think THRICE before storming through a keep.
Oh you're lagging because they're stacking up? Here you go, enjoy this fire ballista.
Vamps should just tip toe around.... and bring up the rear........ and pry that people are casting the right spells to bolster everyone's defense.
I know I do .Tired of getting trolled by ZOS MOD's ........
Ban Hammer of Hear of Daggerfall
Founding Member1 -
Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭i dont see the issue with it and in fact ENJOY it. There is nothing wrong with the increased damage. it is a actual threat now and it was one of the best things they could of done to pvp. Just today on lunch there was a zerg running around and my group had setup some ballista to take them out. Guess what happened? THEY DIED! No more zerg!
Sure the zerg could scatter then regroup, but it is a giant risk doing that. I say GG ZoS you did fantastic! keep it up. Dont let the people who get killed by siege and complain ruin it for everyone else. I get killed by siege and just shrug it off and learn my lesson. the lesson is SIEGE HURTS finally. Healers have to do their job now with the damage siege is dealing. Try stressing the importance of that next time siege fire is being placed upon you and your group. Just like in a dungeon, bad healers will make your team die.Edited by Gorthax on March 24, 2015 8:33PM9 -
Khyras✭✭✭Also,this "avoid the red circle" bs being promoted as some sort of sign of skillful gameplay is getting really old.If there is red circle to be avoided i want it to be from player skills because i know he cannot spam that *** indefinitely due to resource limitation, unlike siege weapon aoe.He uses his resource to put down aoe, i counter it with my dodge using my stamina resource,that is pvp.Running around from siege aoe spamming noobs for 20 minutes is utter crap design, and how anyone can view this as something positive boggles my mind.
Probably L2P issue for people whose only previous PvP game experience are *** pvp games like GW2.2 -
TBois✭✭✭✭✭
✭My problem with siege right now is that it is one shotting people. My death recap from a fire ballista was 21k and 8k from the same person (I assume this is the initial hit then dot). I am a vamp so keep that in mind, and before you say well you are a vamp you should know to move, after yesterday I do pay a lot more attention to those red circles on the ground.
Why not lower the initial hit of fire siege and keep the strong dot as a balance? Keep siege use varied, stone trebs for initial hit, fire for dot, meatbags for heal debuff, etc. As of now, we added meatbags to the useless siege category. I mean why use a meatbag for heal debuff when you can probably just one shot people with fire ballista/treb.
Also with siege hitting this hard can we get some green friendly siege circles on the ground?
EDIT: Remember the days of ground oil? That strong dot w/o a large initial hit does a lot.Edited by TBois on March 24, 2015 8:42PMPC/NA
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Aminals✭✭✭It's a realistic game, being smashed on by a massive ball of fire will kill you. There's really no excuse for not packing your own heat too, you can fire back with the same results.Apollos3 -
NukeAllTheThings✭✭✭✭✭Higher siege damage didn't bother the group I was running with. Then again we were using different skills and tactics in the game instead of raging on the forums.
"it's important to state that our decision to go with subscriptions is not a referendum on online game revenue models. F2P, B2P, etc. are valid, proven business models - but subscription is the one that fits ESO the best, given our commitment to freedom of gameplay, quality and long-term content delivery. Plus, players will appreciate not having to worry about being "monetized" in the middle of playing the game, which is definitely a problem that is cropping up more and more in online gaming these days." - Matt Firor14 -
Khyras✭✭✭It's a realistic game, being smashed on by a massive ball of fire will kill you. There's really no excuse for not packing your own heat too, you can fire back with the same results.NukeAllTheThings wrote: »Higher siege damage didn't bother the group I was running with. Then again we were using different skills and tactics in the game instead of raging on the forums.
Excuse me, but i would like to use skills that i WANT to use in PvP, not dance like a monkey to whatever tune they decided to play THIS month.
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NukeAllTheThings✭✭✭✭✭It's a realistic game, being smashed on by a massive ball of fire will kill you. There's really no excuse for not packing your own heat too, you can fire back with the same results.NukeAllTheThings wrote: »Higher siege damage didn't bother the group I was running with. Then again we were using different skills and tactics in the game instead of raging on the forums.
Excuse me, but i would like to use skills that i WANT to use in PvP, not dance like a monkey to whatever tune they decided to play THIS month.
You don't want to defend yourself then have fun respawning at the nearest keep. You can always go back to bash your face on the keyboard and destroy the weak vet level NPC's now"it's important to state that our decision to go with subscriptions is not a referendum on online game revenue models. F2P, B2P, etc. are valid, proven business models - but subscription is the one that fits ESO the best, given our commitment to freedom of gameplay, quality and long-term content delivery. Plus, players will appreciate not having to worry about being "monetized" in the middle of playing the game, which is definitely a problem that is cropping up more and more in online gaming these days." - Matt Firor4 -
sadownik✭✭✭✭✭
✭I do like the fact that siege does solid damage, and sieges require good teamwork now but.... im vr1 due to infinite Zos wisdom right now in cyrodil i have less hp (and mana, stamina) than battle levled 48. I have 2 choices now - put everything in hp - gimping myself drasticaly or try to run with 20 k hp. Every damn balista and treb can 1 shot me - i know i know just dont stand in red, but its not always possible to dodge that damage especially when there are amny sieges aiming your area. My time of active pvp has shortened very much and people rarely rez.
I think there must be some middle ground taht would allow non vr14 characters to take part in pvp and i hope ZOS will try to accoplish that.1 -
Khyras✭✭✭NukeAllTheThings wrote: »It's a realistic game, being smashed on by a massive ball of fire will kill you. There's really no excuse for not packing your own heat too, you can fire back with the same results.NukeAllTheThings wrote: »Higher siege damage didn't bother the group I was running with. Then again we were using different skills and tactics in the game instead of raging on the forums.
Excuse me, but i would like to use skills that i WANT to use in PvP, not dance like a monkey to whatever tune they decided to play THIS month.
You don't want to defend yourself then have fun respawning at the nearest keep. You can always go back to bash your face on the keyboard and destroy the weak vet level NPC's now
Yeah, because PvE in PvP is what i really enjoy,hence my thread.You go on and "defend yourself" now.
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kendellking_chaosb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭i dont see the issue with it and in fact ENJOY it. There is nothing wrong with the increased damage. it is a actual threat now and it was one of the best things they could of done to pvp. Just today on lunch there was a zerg running around and my group had setup some ballista to take them out. Guess what happened? THEY DIED! No more zerg!
Sure the zerg could scatter then regroup, but it is a giant risk doing that. I say GG ZoS you did fantastic! keep it up. Dont let the people who get killed by siege and complain ruin it for everyone else. I get killed by siege and just shrug it off and learn my lesson. the lesson is SIEGE HURTS finally. Healers have to do their job now with the damage siege is dealing. Try stressing the importance of that next time siege fire is being placed upon you and your group. Just like in a dungeon, bad healers will make your team die.
What the *** are you talking about how the *** you counter that cause even the "cheap" seige shield cost my stamina build 7533 magic that damn near all my magic so no heals, no dark cloak to remove DoTs, no mark target, no Double take literally I can use no magic use by the time the seige shield goes down I still have not regened enough magic to put it back up.
Make a god damn stamina morph having magic only to use one power and with no magic to purge or drop the DoT you just prolong death by seconds as usual you the living *** out of something and can't take two seconds to see how it would affect players so yes GG ZOS no foresight ever just let The real Bethesda take over this you are killings love of this seriesChaos Shadow-Scale: Shadow Archer
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Chaos Light-Scale: Marsh Paladin
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For the King of Argonia
May Sithis hold back his Void2 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭PainfulFAFA wrote: »
People are getting killed by siege weapons even when they do all of those things,because of multiple sige weapon users spamming aoe on the same spot.Moreover getting one shot by siege weapon aoe damage spamming noob in pvp is just plain wrong and illogical, its a matter of principle,if he wants to kill someone he should actually make some effort and work for it
sounds like your mad bro.
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Khyras✭✭✭PainfulFAFA wrote: »
People are getting killed by siege weapons even when they do all of those things,because of multiple sige weapon users spamming aoe on the same spot.Moreover getting one shot by siege weapon aoe damage spamming noob in pvp is just plain wrong and illogical, its a matter of principle,if he wants to kill someone he should actually make some effort and work for it
sounds like your mad bro.
I am mad,but im not your bro, "bro".2 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I hated the new siege meta at first, but I'm going to let it play out because I have a feeling it may be good for cyrodiil down the road.
The first thing I thought was...this is lame, I want to hit stuff not siege v siege. After wiping a few times we changed our strategies and had a fantastic time without using any siege.
Take Allessia farm for example. It's the high ground for assaulting that keep. AD owned it and had the EP pinned down with siege making it hard to push up the hill. We were tasked with sneaking around back and harassing their sieges so that the main EP force could make it up the hill for the full wipe. It added a whole new layer of tactics to cyrodiil. The high ground makes all the difference.
The right strategy is to put up a few well placed sieges rather than the siege spam meta we have now because siegers are incredibly vulnerable. If you divide your forces into too many siegers you can quickly lose half your troops to a blitzkrieg on siegers. I think once the counter strategies propagate the siege spam will normalize. The damage value we have now may or may not be right (26k is not okay)but I think it's pushing us into deeper strategy and at least that part is good.
Edited by Armitas on March 24, 2015 9:20PMRetired.
Nord mDK7 -
Leovolao✭✭✭✭✭Correct me if I'm wrong buy wasn't ground oil nerfed because it was too strong and people were getting farmed at towers with it? Well guess what. Farming a tower with some fire ballistas its even easier than it was back then.
Personally I dont see an issue with it, maybe have npcs take less damage or something.tea pot
"What if my problem wasn't that I don't understand people but that I don't like them?"0 -
kendellking_chaosb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Strategy is not the problem here their is an easy counter to seige, purge and more likely seige shields both are far to expensive for a stamina build to use counter siege use to be my thing but now one shield = no magic so no heal with red circles everywhere not getting hit was not an option so I used the shield and could use no other magic at allChaos Shadow-Scale: Shadow Archer
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For the King of Argonia
May Sithis hold back his Void0
