To all of you who think EXP Boosting Potions are Pay to Win: You're wrong.

Cody · March 2015

NO!!!!!!! I LOVE THE DRAMA THAT ENSUES FROM THIS! DON'T RUIN THIS FOR ME!

Cody · March 2015

Skafsgaard wrote: »

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

Eh I'd rather get the CP grind over with Tbh

We need 5000 CPs, right? It was just increased in 2.x patch notes..

it will never end, bro

well you are not supposed to grind all of them out, you are supposed to earn them as you play.

Morshire · March 2015

hanilvor wrote: »

Morshire wrote: »

hanilvor wrote: »

It's a way for us filthy casuals with families and jobs to keep up with the elitists that can somehow manage to play 24/7. Why is that so threatening? Do the skills of these elitist players only relate to time spent grinding like a monkey? Let the filthy casuals subsidise your

@hanilvor - I am not sure things are the way you see them, at least for me. You think the potion will allow you to keep up? That would be true if you were the only one using them. But since everyone can/will use them, your problem gets worse. Say the gap now is 50 CP and 3 VR levels. Casual player uses 50% XP boost for 2 hours a night. to level. But the hardcore who has 8 hours to play is doing the same. 50% boost for them = 6 extra hours playing with 50% boost to all gains. That problem is way worse now. Instead of just trying to close the gap that the 6 extra hours gives the hardcore player, you also need to contend with the 50% boost. Nothing solved. Worse now, is that some casual player starts in say 6 months. They still only get the 2 hours a night, but the hardcore has had 6 months of 50% boosts and 8 hours a day. This time is spent in a system that has no limit and is constantly expanding.

No one would be even considering XP boosts if there was a reasonable cap to levels and CP (What we had with VR14 only), if there was fun and challenging content for all levels/aspects of the game, and if new and challenging content was coming at some steady pace. The only thing the XP booster proves is that ZOS chooses to focus on creating a virtual environment that lures you into feeling of despair, and then they look like heroes by offering a "convenient" fix for $$$. Kind of reminds me of how arms dealing works. Create the conflict, offer powerful items to squash the enemy with, offer to both sides, and laugh all the way to the bank.

This colossal mountain they are calling CS, mixed with the constant XP nerfing, mixed with limited content, add in some competitive elements, and throw in a crown store. BAABAM - ZOS gets rich and we get led along. Good business. However, our frustration is focused on casual/hardcore, name calling, frustration, etc. The real problem we should be up in arms about....why would the suits at ZOS create this? Why wouldn't they keep us entertained with a game that we enjoyed from all aspects? If this was the best game ever, no one would care what level they were, or how many CP they needed, because they would be completely satisfied with where they were. This would make the game healthier, and people would have paid to just keep playing.

(Just my opinion and not meant to belittle anyone or their opinion)

@Morshire That's a really good point, a distinct possibility that I had not thought of. However in my last mmo, which had the xp boosts, that never really occurred. Most of the hardcore players never used the boost, out of pride or for just plain financial reasons.

That being said I could see how ESO could be different, with the Champion system and all.

I think the current mentality is different and I blame the horrendous grind they introduced called CS. Gamers have always had different wants and nothing is going to change that. A good portion of the player base doesn't need to have all the CP. But there are those that play to get it all. Some players are more competitive. Some players goal is to dominate PVP. All perfectly good reasons to play a game. And most of the MMO's I have played, the power gaps that are created are smaller, and it doesn't take 5 years to overcome them. So even less people feel the need to get help getting to that magical "end". ZOS was crafty in that they made the mountain so big, that everyone feel a need to consider the boosts IF they have that CP end in mind. Even myself, who never, ever bought a booster potion. I don't want 3600CP bad enough to want to pay anything for it. BUT, I feel that my character needs X number of them and the pace at which they are gained has me debating whether to buy them.

I am not judging anyone for their thoughts or reasons or even their gaming goals. I am however wondering why I personally would want to continue to invest my time into a game that clearly is going to be more and more focused on how much money they can wring out of me. In my experience, this leads to a game that starts to lack more and more content wise, the farther I progress.

Naivefanboi · March 2015

Froggmann5 wrote: »

EXP Boosting Potions (on moderate levels, nothing exorbitant like a 5000% boost) give absolutely no statistical benefit to any one player over another.

It is exactly like Zenimax said it was: A convenience item. All it does is allow players to reach higher Veteran levels slightly faster. And guess what? It's never going to affect you. You'll never be affected in any negative way over these potions. Most of the time, you're not going to know anyone is even using one.

"BUT WAIT" - Concerned All-Knowing Player "This means that people will be able to level all of their Alts to VR14 and get MAX ARMOUR and have ALL THE SKILLPOINTS in less than A DAY. HOW IS THAT NOT PAY TO WIN??!11!?"

Relax, it's not like people are suddenly going to appear as max level with the best gear/max skillpoints as soon as they drink the potion. It is still going to take a considerable amount of time to level even one character past VR1. And even then, they'll always be ahead of their zones leveling curb, meaning they'll either have to take the same amount of time obtaining skyshards/skillpoints, or just ignore them entirely.

You won't notice it. If you log off one day, you can log on the next and not even know how much/little someone has level'd up over night. And it wouldn't matter, there are already thousands of players at max level. You would never be able to look into a crowd and say, "That one used XP boosting potions.". Not to mention they'll be buyable with in-game gold.

These potions will not:

* Make anyone stronger than another.
* Magically create super strong VR14 characters in a week. Or even a month.
* Give anyone End-Game armour or stats.

Most of you seem to forget, that most other big MMOs give instant level boosts.

In Wow, you can literally buy max level characters.

Can you all just chill out? A Temporary 2 hour 50% XP boosting potion, that you have to rebuy constantly to even feel the best effects from it, is not going to hurt anyone.

lol i dont think any of what you listed is the issue people are worried about. being able to pay for faster champion points is what were all waiting for. the potions will be in there eventually.
is it pay to win yea but oh well, most games are now in one way are another. just gotta suck it up and decide if games still fun or not.
only reason im around is to play on console with my old raiding buddy lol, maybe raid on console trials were great on pc. least the 3 ive done

dietlime · March 2015

Players who use boosters that strong will inevitably have a lead that other can't close without spending real money, one that translates into guaranteed wins in PvP

kherzaheb17_ESO · March 2015

Why people get suprised about this ? It will be Pay 2 Win.No matter what you say or Zos already said.

Zos already said that this game won't be B2P.What happened now ?

So don't be suprised about XP potions.These potions or any buyable items won't effect this game any more since P2P - B2P incident.

It is effected this company. Im sure that many players like me won't buy any game from zos again.Atleast we won't buy game on 1st year.I don't wanna be exclusive beta tester who paid monthly fee for it.

So yeah i won't pay for xp potions either.They will release better items after they published xp potions.Maybe CP bundle or something like that.

Don't say it is not possible....We were saying that when this game was P2P.

Skafsgaard · March 2015

kherzaheb17_ESO wrote: »

Why people get suprised about this ? It will be Pay 2 Win.No matter what you say or Zos already said.

Zos already said that this game won't be B2P.What happened now ?

So don't be suprised about XP potions.These potions or any buyable items won't effect this game any more since P2P - B2P incident.

It is effected this company. Im sure that many players like me won't buy any game from zos again.Atleast we won't buy game on 1st year.I don't wanna be exclusive beta tester who paid monthly fee for it.

So yeah i won't pay for xp potions either.They will release better items after they published xp potions.Maybe CP bundle or something like that.

Don't say it is not possible....We were saying that when this game was P2P.

Ironically, I would rather have some weapon in the shop. This way I would have a way to avoid PvE for loot. But with the CP system it doesnt matter anyway, you have to grind PvE to be competitive.

kherzaheb17_ESO · March 2015

Skafsgaard wrote: »

kherzaheb17_ESO wrote: »

Why people get suprised about this ? It will be Pay 2 Win.No matter what you say or Zos already said.

Zos already said that this game won't be B2P.What happened now ?

So don't be suprised about XP potions.These potions or any buyable items won't effect this game any more since P2P - B2P incident.

It is effected this company. Im sure that many players like me won't buy any game from zos again.Atleast we won't buy game on 1st year.I don't wanna be exclusive beta tester who paid monthly fee for it.

So yeah i won't pay for xp potions either.They will release better items after they published xp potions.Maybe CP bundle or something like that.

Don't say it is not possible....We were saying that when this game was P2P.

Ironically, I would rather have some weapon in the shop. This way I would have a way to avoid PvE for loot. But with the CP system it doesnt matter anyway, you have to grind PvE to be competitive.

So having a weapon on cash shop will not make it P2W this game ? Is that what u imply ?

Well, there is nothing to say now i guess.

Jennifur_Vultee · March 2015

Experience boosters are pay to win no matter how you try to rationalize it. If you want to play a pay to win game that require you literally spend $350+ a month just to stay competitive at end game try Scarlet Blade. You can toss thousands of dollars at them and they'll still treat you like dirt and ignore problems for months, there were 10 second freezes, 6fps and 5-10 second skill use lag in Scarlet Blade PVP for six solid months. They sold overpowered spider mech in the cash shop like they were candy and the players who spend the most became unkillable PVP gods that drove away the low spending players...what's the point in playing if you're nothing but cannon fodder to be spawn camped till the opposing faction gets bored? I left Scarlet Blade for ESO for several reasons but the wallet warriors/play to win cash shop model drove me away the most, I spent about $15 a month there and there was no way I could compete with the pay to win players who were spending $350+ a month no matter how much I farmed for unique gear or how good my skills were...it was like shooting peas at a tank trying to kill the wallet warriors.

If that's the course people want ESO to take then I'll start building a raft and jump ship when it starts...I am not going to put up with another pay to win game ever again.

Skafsgaard · March 2015

kherzaheb17_ESO wrote: »

Skafsgaard wrote: »

kherzaheb17_ESO wrote: »

Why people get suprised about this ? It will be Pay 2 Win.No matter what you say or Zos already said.

Zos already said that this game won't be B2P.What happened now ?

So don't be suprised about XP potions.These potions or any buyable items won't effect this game any more since P2P - B2P incident.

It is effected this company. Im sure that many players like me won't buy any game from zos again.Atleast we won't buy game on 1st year.I don't wanna be exclusive beta tester who paid monthly fee for it.

So yeah i won't pay for xp potions either.They will release better items after they published xp potions.Maybe CP bundle or something like that.

Don't say it is not possible....We were saying that when this game was P2P.

Ironically, I would rather have some weapon in the shop. This way I would have a way to avoid PvE for loot. But with the CP system it doesnt matter anyway, you have to grind PvE to be competitive.

So having a weapon on cash shop will not make it P2W this game ? Is that what u imply ?

Well, there is nothing to say now i guess.

No, not saying that. As someone who enjoy competitive PvP I will now have a choice, do I quit the game or be perma potted when played? If I choose the latter I will still have to spend money. Im saying if it HAS to be p2w I prefer to buy loot than chamption points, as with loot would LESSEN my time spent in PvE land chasing that .2% drop chance from some ugly ass boss. That's what Im saying - what are you saying? That you like p2w?

eisberg · March 2015

DDuke wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

OP is clueless.

Saddest thing is, ZOS actually closed the thread that pointed out how things actually work out: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159517/experience-boosts-are-pay2win/p2

and left this one open. Bias much?

Apparently it's ok to tell people how they're "wrong" and mislead them like the OP here, but not ok to criticize P2W decisions.

no they closed that thread because it is a thread for the same conversation as this one. this thread was created first so this thread got to stay if it was reversed that thread was created first this thread would have been closed.

Craven_Killmore · March 2015

who cares if a video game is pay to win, there is more important things in life to care about, seriously.

Skafsgaard · March 2015

Craven_Killmore wrote: »

who cares if a video game is pay to win, there is more important things in life to care about, seriously.

By extension of this argument, we will be allowed - by your logic - to only be concerned by THE most important thing. As each time a concern is made, it is simply dismissed by [insert worse concern here] untill you arrive at what is the MOST important one.

So you see, what you have posted makes no sense and is used only by those who does not possess the willingness or ability to engage in a conversation, that is to say an exchange of thoughts and argumentation. Humans DO have the capability to be concerned on MULTIPLE issues, and just because I engage in a forum exchange with concerns about the state of ESO, does not imply that I do not hold concerns over the climate, gas prices, my wife cheating or any other number of things. Does that makes sense to you?

DanielMaxwell · March 2015

Are XP booster potions P2W / Yes , but only in so much as they allow you to complete the leveling process faster , and yes that includes the Champion System (it is a leveling process).

XP boosters are the weakest form of P2W they can put into the Crown Store , other more powerful P2W items will end up in the store if the upper management believes that it will sell and they will make a profit from it.

Ramtaku · March 2015

I liked the unemployed to win comment.

Time available to play has much more impact on variance at max than any XP booster.

10000 xp per hour X 70% boost = 34 k for two hour pot.

10000 xp per hour with 30% mara/sub = 26k for two hours, 39k for three hours.

If you can play 6 hours vs someone playing 4 hours with two pots you will still gain more XP.

The champion system and XP system will always favor students taking a 12 hour load or unemployed 19 year olds living with their parents and it has always been that way.

The pots will help working people keep up. The people with a lot of idle time and money will just get better faster, but the people with more idle time will always be ahead of everyone else regardless.

I find it hard to care that two people that have six or more hours a day to play will be disadvantaged in comparison to each other because one of them is using their parents' credit card.

kherzaheb17_ESO · March 2015

No matter what you said won't change the fact.

XP potions are way to P2W.It doesn't like end game gear or something but it will provide players to gain much more cp in short time.That means if you pay for those xp potions you will be stronger on pvp in a short time.While people having fun playing pvp , some of them won't like it anymore because they will need more cp to compete those who are already using xp potions to get more cp.

So i guess , we should congratulate to ZOS about this one too.

Ysne58 · March 2015

DDuke wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

OP is clueless.

Saddest thing is, ZOS actually closed the thread that pointed out how things actually work out: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159517/experience-boosts-are-pay2win/p2

and left this one open. Bias much?

Apparently it's ok to tell people how they're "wrong" and mislead them like the OP here, but not ok to criticize P2W decisions.

They linked to this thread when they closed it because the subject matter is the same. How is that biased?

DDuke · March 2015

Ysne58 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

OP is clueless.

Saddest thing is, ZOS actually closed the thread that pointed out how things actually work out: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159517/experience-boosts-are-pay2win/p2

and left this one open. Bias much?

Apparently it's ok to tell people how they're "wrong" and mislead them like the OP here, but not ok to criticize P2W decisions.

They linked to this thread when they closed it because the subject matter is the same. How is that biased?

Edit: just realized we are actually not allowed to discuss forum moderation, so removing what I wrote, but you'll find an answer to your question if you look close enough.

Junkogen · March 2015

Come on, is this really that shocking? Once the Crown Store was introduced, this was the inevitable path. More blatant Pay-to-Win (P2W) elements are sure to come. This is a business enterprise, not a non-profit organization. ZOS wants your money and they're going to figure out the best way to get it. It's like that South Park episode about mobile games. It's all about getting you addicted to the game and then that's when the real cash extraction happens.

From now on, we're going to see experimentation with different strategies to see which ones yield the highest profits. These are dark times. Much like every other aspect of life, the rich triumph while the poor struggle. If you don't have the money, you're just going to have to work that much harder, almost to futility.

Milktray · March 2015

They would have got more if they added in other things instead of xp boost, Name change, Race change, Gender change, Skill Resets, Faction change .. with their useless 24 hr timer on delete resets (over 48 hrs and still waiting on mine) being able to lets say change name, lets you make another character and use name you like.

Leeric · March 2015

Froggmann5 wrote: »

EXP Boosting Potions (on moderate levels, nothing exorbitant like a 5000% boost) give absolutely no statistical benefit to any one player over another.

It is exactly like Zenimax said it was: A convenience item. All it does is allow players to reach higher Veteran levels slightly faster. And guess what? It's never going to affect you. You'll never be affected in any negative way over these potions. Most of the time, you're not going to know anyone is even using one.

"BUT WAIT" - Concerned All-Knowing Player "This means that people will be able to level all of their Alts to VR14 and get MAX ARMOUR and have ALL THE SKILLPOINTS in less than A DAY. HOW IS THAT NOT PAY TO WIN??!11!?"

Relax, it's not like people are suddenly going to appear as max level with the best gear/max skillpoints as soon as they drink the potion. It is still going to take a considerable amount of time to level even one character past VR1. And even then, they'll always be ahead of their zones leveling curb, meaning they'll either have to take the same amount of time obtaining skyshards/skillpoints, or just ignore them entirely.

You won't notice it. If you log off one day, you can log on the next and not even know how much/little someone has level'd up over night. And it wouldn't matter, there are already thousands of players at max level. You would never be able to look into a crowd and say, "That one used XP boosting potions.". Not to mention they'll be buyable with in-game gold.

These potions will not:

* Make anyone stronger than another.
* Magically create super strong VR14 characters in a week. Or even a month.
* Give anyone End-Game armour or stats.

Most of you seem to forget, that most other big MMOs give instant level boosts.

In Wow, you can literally buy max level characters.

Can you all just chill out? A Temporary 2 hour 50% XP boosting potion, that you have to rebuy constantly to even feel the best effects from it, is not going to hurt anyone.

lol you make this whole post and dont mention champion points? And your credibility is now gone.

Audigy · March 2015

kherzaheb17_ESO wrote: »

No matter what you said won't change the fact.

XP potions are way to P2W.It doesn't like end game gear or something but it will provide players to gain much more cp in short time.That means if you pay for those xp potions you will be stronger on pvp in a short time.While people having fun playing pvp , some of them won't like it anymore because they will need more cp to compete those who are already using xp potions to get more cp.

So i guess , we should congratulate to ZOS about this one too.

People with ESO plus and Rings of Mara have a 20% boost already, so why the big drama about a potion that doesn't even last forever?

You know, if I would do pvp today I would face players with about a hundred CP + because they used grind spots before the nerfs, had XP boosters or just more time. Its just how it is, learn to accept it or stop playing online games. You can not change how players play, nor can you demand that everything you don't have must be removed from the game, so that you can get even again.

The hypocrisy is strong among those complaining, I bet they all have ESO plus and the Rings since day one.

eisberg · March 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Ysne58 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

OP is clueless.

Saddest thing is, ZOS actually closed the thread that pointed out how things actually work out: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159517/experience-boosts-are-pay2win/p2

and left this one open. Bias much?

Apparently it's ok to tell people how they're "wrong" and mislead them like the OP here, but not ok to criticize P2W decisions.

They linked to this thread when they closed it because the subject matter is the same. How is that biased?

Edit: just realized we are actually not allowed to discuss forum moderation, so removing what I wrote, but you'll find an answer to your question if you look close enough.

You are right, and the answer to that is: This thread already existed, that other thread was not needed since it was already the same subject. That is why it was closed. Nothing more to it then that.

c0rp · March 2015

It will take years to get to 3600 CP without XP potion.

It will take years to get to 3600 with XP potion.

XP pots will most certainly be purchasable w in game gold (possibly even crafted).

Getting to 3600 CP faster is not p2w.

LordSkyKnight · March 2015

c0rp wrote: »

It will take years to get to 3600 CP without XP potion.

It will take years to get to 3600 with XP potion.

XP pots will most certainly be purchasable w in game gold (possibly even crafted).

Getting to 3600 CP faster is not p2w.

Logic fail.

If you pay extra money to increase the rate at which you acquire experience points to gain champion points faster: you are paying to win.

DDuke · March 2015

c0rp wrote: »

It will take years to get to 3600 CP without XP potion.

It will take years to get to 3600 with XP potion.

XP pots will most certainly be purchasable w in game gold (possibly even crafted).

Getting to 3600 CP faster is not p2w.

It's a power granting hamster wheel that spins faster the more money you throw at it. Of course it's P2W.

Whov · March 2015

I think these pots aren't going to matter for the CP. The 10% sub has been stated as it caps at 50. So after that ur on your own again. This tells me that if the pots affect CP acquisition then there is absoloutly no point in subbing after 1 character hits vr ranks. I'll Hsu cancel and use pots from that point on.

Audigy · March 2015

LordSkyKnight wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

It will take years to get to 3600 CP without XP potion.

It will take years to get to 3600 with XP potion.

XP pots will most certainly be purchasable w in game gold (possibly even crafted).

Getting to 3600 CP faster is not p2w.

Logic fail.

If you pay extra money to increase the rate at which you acquire experience points to gain champion points faster: you are paying to win.

So everyone with Ring of Mara and ESO Plus is a case for p2w? Let us know if you already canceled your account and if you trashed your rings at release, else you should be very quiet now with your accusations

You guys cant win that argument, just give up we have proven more than once that you are wrong, just accept it and move on if you hate this game so much

LordSkyKnight · March 2015

Audigy wrote: »

So everyone with Ring of Mara and ESO Plus is a case for p2w? Let us know if you already canceled your account and if you trashed your rings at release, else you should be very quiet now with your accusations

You guys cant win that argument, just give up we have proven more than once that you are wrong, just accept it and move on if you hate this game so much

Feel free to look through my post history. I have never once claimed the ring of mara or the sub bonus wasn't. Also, I have never stated I hate this game. I just don't like the direction in which is going. I would have rather have had the game stayed with the subscription model. I despise cash shops.

Funny you bring up the ring of mara. I have the thing in my bank but have never completed the ritual to get the ring.

Nice try with the straw man attack to dodge the real problem.

DDuke · March 2015

Audigy wrote: »

LordSkyKnight wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

It will take years to get to 3600 CP without XP potion.

It will take years to get to 3600 with XP potion.

XP pots will most certainly be purchasable w in game gold (possibly even crafted).

Getting to 3600 CP faster is not p2w.

Logic fail.

If you pay extra money to increase the rate at which you acquire experience points to gain champion points faster: you are paying to win.

So everyone with Ring of Mara and ESO Plus is a case for p2w? Let us know if you already canceled your account and if you trashed your rings at release, else you should be very quiet now with your accusations

You guys cant win that argument, just give up we have proven more than once that you are wrong, just accept it and move on if you hate this game so much

Only thing you have proven is your ignorance.

Rings of Mara are negligible, you need to sacrifice a ring slot for them, which means they are not usable in PvP or end game PvE, and might reduce your DPS enough to defeat the purpose of the XP boost.

ESO Plus is P2W, make no mistake. It is, however, much less of an issue since we get the benefit by doing what we did before: subscribing.

That, and there's a part of me that wants to punish the "I want to play for freeee" people for making this game go B2P, by making them second grade citizens with subscription. Irony wins

Still, I'd rather not have ESO+ grant XP bonus (atleast one that applies to CP)

Then come XP boosters, which are on a completely new level. You are basically extorting players to waste thousands each month on the game in order to stay competitive. P2W.

Quoting myself from previous reply, as I feel this is an adequate analogy:

It's a power granting hamster wheel that spins faster the more money you throw at it.

Lastly, I doubt many people would "hate" this game and still keep posting here.
What people do hate however, is P2W: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159484/do-you-want-p2w/p1

So instead of telling others how they're wrong & you're right, you might want to take an objective approach & consider admitting there might be something wrong (which is why a lot of people are upset).

Have a good day.