Your thoughts on the Justice System?

Samadhi · March 2015

My biggest issue with the Justice System is that hours of pickpocketing NPCs and stealing from containers provides no experience gain. This needs to be fixed; it should be fully viable to level up playing as a Thief rather than being railroaded into other content with thievery tacked on as an afterthought and minor skill line.
If I grind dolmens to level up my Fighter's Guild, my character levels up in the process; if I search out Lorebooks to level up my Mage's Guild, my character levels in the process; If I spend hours leveling up my Legerdemain tree by stealing from NPCs, I sacrifice leveling my character and generate a large bounty that inhibits my participation in other content.
Why is the Thief archetype given higher risk and lower reward than the Warrior or Mage archetypes?

The system is really good, but it needs to be more integrated with the rest of the game. Every other Elder Scrolls game allowed me to level up my character by being a shifty thief; in ESO the option to be a thief is there but does not provide progress through the game. The Legerdermain skill line is great and levels at a good pace, but it does not provide the sense of character growth that would be provided by being able to level up through outlaw activities in the appropriate level zones -- this would have the added benefit of reducing the number of end-game characters farming level 10 NPCs because such characters could actually level up their Champion Points by playing in their appropriate zones.

Currently it seems that only the picking of locks and killing of NPCs provides any experience at all; what about adding experience to successful pickpockets, successful steals and the sale/laundry of items to the Fence (which has a daily cap to keep exp gains within a reasonable limit).

Very much looking forward to when the PvP portion is added.

IcyDeadPeople · March 2015

So far the only problem I've had is that blue items can only stack up to 5 in our inventory, and I suspect the green items have a low stack limit as well.

It seems I can only sell ~8k of items to the fence each day (and you can't put them in bank or mail to friends). As a result, my inventory has been completely full with stolen goods for the past few days.

I may need to delete all the blue items to make room for the properly stacking white items.

Tendrielle · March 2015

I had an extension idea for the system in the PTS forum:

Tendrielle wrote: »

I tested Justice system on PTS and so far I like it. I am just missing a reason why I should become a criminal. Some temptation. Simple idea: let random armor and weapons displayed in stores sometimes (rarely) have a light glow. These shiny items then should have a superior quality, green to sometimes purple even. That would be a real temptation.

How do you like it?

nimander99 · March 2015

Let me be specific, I love this PART of Justice as is but I DEFINETLY want to see the next phase of it...

Ageless · March 2015

r.leigh.harperb14_ESO wrote: »

Bounty meters should be visible in delves.

Although the bounty meter is still not visible, at least there's now a line that says "you have so much bounty". As to why, still no explanation.

Irritating thing is that when you shoot an arrow too many at a mender, it hits the person lying on the floor and immediately you have several hundreds of bounty. I walked out with only just over a thousand gold bounty.

drzycki_ESO · March 2015

I don't hate it at all but I don't choose to participate. Lots of others, including my husband, really enjoy it.

crislevin · March 2015

Add a spell "summon guard".

IcyDeadPeople · March 2015

After playing as an "outlaw" for a week, I observed the following:

blue stolen items stack up to 5, green stack up to 20 and white stolen items stack up to 100, as a result if you steal a lot, your inventory quickly becomes filled with many more stolen items than you can sell to the fence
since we can only sell a limited number of items to the fence each day, it is best to delete all white items and collect only blues or greens
when grouped with other players, they are able to collect loot and receive XP from NPCs I kill, without getting a bounty (perhaps this is intended, since all the witnesses are dead when they loot the body?)
outlaws have very limited access to guild traders, only the ones in Coldharbour and outlaw refuges
it is a bit challenging to sneak your way from the wayshrine past multiple guards to the respec shrine in Mournhold
some towns have an outlaw refuge right next to the wayshrine (Rawl'Kha), while others require more sneaking to reach the entrance (Mournhold)

Tandor · March 2015

Kevinmon wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Polished yes, changed no.

I personally have no wish to see PvP added to the Justice System, it should be kept in Cyrodil. The more PvP intrudes into the open world PvE, the more PvPers will clamour to change the open world PvE.

Gtfo, just because you don't like pvp doesn't mean no one else does.

Thanks for a perfect illustration of why some don't want the open world PvE experience spoilt by such sweet-talking which should be kept to Cyrodil. I fully understand that there are those who like PvP, but not everyone does and it's easy from your comment to see why.

LawfulEvil · March 2015

I would like to see dailies from the safe den where I have to go assassinate NPCs in the town without getting caught. Maybe a token system from the dailies where I can save up and buy crap I do not really need.

shadowselfb16_ESO · March 2015

I like it so far. I was trying to get the game working on the Rift, and I was adjusting my VorpX settings - I had forgotten to go into the menu, so every time I clicked on the VorpX settings, my toon would be shooting arrows all over town. Got in a bit of trouble for slaying an NPC.

doggie · March 2015

I don't think they should add more to the Justice system. Now the system is similar to what it's in single playerv TES games and that's what people have been asking for.

For me there is very little difference between what I did one year ago and today, you loot some trunks in a place noone see you like on a boat, relog and loot again. Same sh*t new wrapping. You make some more gold from selling stolen junk.

I think few people would be involved with the additional justice system, it's too much resources on a system for the few. They need to sort out the major things in the game.

GreySix · March 2015

Keep the guards invulnerable until PvP is enabled.

And once that happens, closet-psychopaths shouldn't be able to opt-out of being ruthlessly curb stomped by pro-justice players. Murder others, and your life should be forfeit ... or at least in grave danger.

tengri · March 2015

I fail to see any long time benefit of this.
Sure, it may be fun for a week or two sneaking around trying to steal stuff... but for what? This gets old very fast.

What I really do like is some NPC reactions to crime...
female Bosmer voice: "Dont let that ugly skeever get away!"
Priceless! Totally love it.

Maidenname · March 2015

Ffastyl wrote: »

I have experienced the rush of criminal activities on the PTS. The risk versus reward hits the sweet spot for criminally inclined players. Where the Justice System is lacking is in content for lawful players, like myself on live. I want to see more crimes stopped, and to take part in stopping them. The Enforcers faction will add this, but it will be a gruesome wait.

Lol.... Criminally inclined minus real life punishment or inprisonment ...

Would like to see if Zenimax can carry it to next level. That is to hunt down and kill the player who has bounty. It gives the opportunity to 1v 1 within the same faction in open world without entering cyrodil.... Sweet

qsnoopyjr · March 2015

Natjur wrote: »

Hard part is getting mass murders achievement on all my toons without having to pay tons to clear it.
Looks like you can get it and only pay 20k if you do it right.

This was a really easy step for me.

I'm not sure if this is intended, but what you do is like in Glenumbra, at the dock exit from the refuge, theres 3 NPCs, if you pickpocket in front of them, one of there buddies will attack you. What you do is run away and he will follow, run someplace no one else is at, kill him, and there will not be any increased bounty.

A place I did this was the cathedral in Glenumbra, lots of NPCs, steal in front of another, run to stairs case when one of them is chasing you, kill him, rinse and repeat. No guards are in the cathedral, at first I was just slaughtering them all, than I decided I should work on pickpocketing and I learned how to get less bounty.

Basically you get 11 bounty for pickpocketing and being seen, and if you run to a spot where no one else can see you, you get a free murder and whatever his loot was.

ZigoSid · March 2015

Cool for peoples that play bad characters or just like those type of content.

Useless for me. I want the cool guy part of the system, even if it's PVE.

Ageless · March 2015

Note to self: next time you play Seaside Sanctuary, do not fight the enemy. If you must though, know that at one point you'll find that there are Sea Vipers fighting Dominion soldiers. Do not interfere. One wrong arrow, one wrong siphoning and you have a 146 bounty and will need to kill the Dominion soldier as well. Also watch out for individual Sea Vipers, as behind them, there may be individual Dominion soldiers. Kill the Sea Viper but press the mouse or '2' key one too many times and another Dominion soldier needs to be killed at a new bounty of 146 gold.

Plus it just takes too long to wait out such bounty in the Abandoned Temple.

Sigh.

Oh and what's up with that one backpack at the abandoned temple that isn't just 'pick', but 'steal'?

Kragorn · March 2015

I hate the mindless murder it allows, it has no relevance whatsoever to the game. Had it been connected to the alleged faction wars then maybe, just maybe, but slaughtering civilians en masse is not what I consider a TES game to be even in real TES games.

The fact there's no retribution or indeed any real penalty just lets the sociopaths who play it run rampant.

GaldorP · March 2015

I was surprised that such a major new system got introduced without any major bug!
Had lots of fun levelling the Legerdemain skill line.
Many interesting things to find and discover.
Feels really exciting because you take an actual risk and can lose something.
In general, I think it's aimed more at mid and high level characters (for new characters the bounties can become a problem and they don't have the skill points to invest yet).

If I had to point out a negative I would say that the long loading screens when entering or leaving an outlaw refuge can be a bit of a penalty/annoying. Also, the travel to player option doesn't work anymore when your character is in a refuge and dungeon difficulty cannot be changed anymore by the group leader when any character in the group is in a refuge.
Also, since each refuge is organized differently and many NPCs share the same icons you see on banners (guild traders and merchants have the same balance icon and it seems the white outlaw icon can pretty much stand for anything and not just fences) it can be hard to find the NPCs you're looking for.
Oh, and it's a shame stolen clothes have no item category and can't be sold in the guild store.

Edit: One more thing: Items that you can steal by pressing E once without any confirmation like (foods and drinks or armor and weapons that are not in containers but lay just there for you to pick them up) can lead to accidental bounties. This can be a bit annoying. There is some kind of sword right next to a guild trader in Belkarth, for example, and I think I've already received a bounty twice there when I just wanted to speak to the trader but in the last split-second my cursor suddenly changed to "Steal" instead of "Talk to" and I had already pressed E.

GreySix · March 2015

Kragorn wrote: »

I hate the mindless murder it allows, it has no relevance whatsoever to the game. Had it been connected to the alleged faction wars then maybe, just maybe, but slaughtering civilians en masse is not what I consider a TES game to be even in real TES games.

The fact there's no retribution or indeed any real penalty just lets the sociopaths who play it run rampant.

Concur. For that reason alone, want to see the city guard remain invulnerable until PvP is allowed in the Justice System.

Then, if the city guard do lose their invulnerability, closet-psychopaths should not be allowed to opt out of being ganked and mercilessly slaughtered by PvP Justice players.

CaptainObvious · March 2015

Here is what I find stupid about the Justice system as is.

The story goes through this whole discussion about how daedra and soulshriven become goo and reform as rationale for how you come back to life should you die.

So got it, if I die, I go through warm liquid goo phase and eventually reform.

Now everyone respawns. So unless the majority of nirn are soulshriven as well then the rationale becomes "uh... a wizard did it..."

When I heard about assassinations, I posted a feedback that the best place for that and other nonsensical stuff would be the Shivering Isles.

Could have a narrowed down 2 faction PvP to fit in with the light and dark side. The people and rules are bonkers by nature, so that would make random stabbings make more "sense."

Basically, Shivering Isles could be the "Vegas" area so to speak and not raise questions like. "The former hero just slaughtered half of Wayrest, shouldn't we lock them up for the rest of their unnatural life instead of a fine? Last time we fined them they just did the same thing."

YourNameHere · March 2015

I do like the system, but I think it could be tweaked a bit.

Possibly, a skill in the Ledgerman (sp?) is to stun a guard for a short time, like 5 or 10 seconds with a CD of maybe 30 min or 45 min so not spammed, allowing you can get away. Since the actual guards are unkillable (and I think it should be kept that way) having an extra way to escape would be great.

Humor · March 2015

Justice system as of now is "Meh".

Why do I think this? Well, the justice system, and NPC's could have been just like the other TES games, where guards could be killed, and only certain NPC's would have a crown over them, being non-killable Npc's. The way it's setup seems... Broken. Don't get me wrong, of course it's nice to have guards around, but unless players are able to kill players within towns and outside of towns in the open world, doesn't having guards seem kind of pointless? Sure, one can steal, kill Npc's, and become an outlaw, but guards are supposed to "Protect" people, and ensure some type of safe zone, at least speaking "Mmorpg" wise.

Let's take a look at a personal favorite mmorpg of mine; Lineage 2. This mmorpg had a justice system too, only the guards were in town to protect people, from Pkers, or other players that meant you harm, or killed Npc's just for fun. These guards could be killed, but there'd be "X" amount around the towns/cities, that trying to break your way in would require a considerable amount of effort, time, and people in order to do so. In my mind this is what "Guards" should really be like.

Of course speaking from the TES single player games, the justice system is fine, again, it's still flawed though, in the manner you're not actually able to kill the guards. Again, the guard system is fine, and they're pretty easy to escape, or so I find myself. But it just doesn't feel like being "Bad", is rewarding enough when it comes to this game. I mean, I'm still pretty much able to do everything before hand I'm able to if I just don't kill, and or steal stuff.

Another thing I noticed is that, it seems when you kill Npc's, the guards immediately attack you, opposed to just theft, and having the exact same bounty rating. Shouldn't the guards stop you and make you pay a fine for attacking/killing npc's, and only attack you should your bounty be high enough?

Long story short; Justice system could be improved, as it stands now, I see no reason to go through the trouble, or "thrill" of being "bad". Justice system feels watered down.