Your thoughts on the Justice System?

emeraldbay

Obviously, this is a rather large addition to the game we all know and (sort of) love. What do you all think about the new Justice System?

cozmon3c_ESO

can only go up from here !!!
and pvp element with enforcers and criminals will be an awesome addition when they get around to implementing it in the game!

Tandor

Polished yes, changed no.

I personally have no wish to see PvP added to the Justice System, it should be kept in Cyrodil. The more PvP intrudes into the open world PvE, the more PvPers will clamour to change the open world PvE.

Ourorboros

The Outlaw Refuges would be better with crafting stations, cooking fires, and Skyshards to deal with all the skill points needed for the new Ledgermain skills.

Cazic

I haven't done much with the Justice System myself yet. But, what I have done is really fun, and just seeing people sneaking around, committing crimes and being chased by guards adds a lot of life to the game. So I think it's awesome as is, no need to change it but always room for additions/polish.

Sallington

It's nice for some extra income, but almost seems like a nuisance in most cases. Maybe they have big plans on Thieve's Guild implementation.

UrQuan

Overall I think it's great. It could definitely be improved a bit here and there, and I definitely want them to really plan the eventual PvP aspect of it incredibly carefully to prevent griefing and exploits, but so far I'm overall very happy that it's in the game.

Gix

Ourorboros wrote: »

The Outlaw Refuges would be better with crafting stations, cooking fires, and Skyshards to deal with all the skill points needed for the new Ledgermain skills.

And here I thought the Refuges offered too much pampering already.

ChillsSilvertail

I miss the "Woops, didn't mean to sell that, but wanted to launder that item"-buyback option.

Most other issues I ran into with the system is user issues: a.k.a. me dying from OP guards because they just had to turn around at that particular moment (and many ragequits followed).

I like the system. Brings some tension into cities when I choose it to be and it's not forced on me. The big red STEAL word is obvious enough to avoid when needed and for provisioning I can find most items fine in other places.

Muizer

I really don't like not being able to do anything about players murdering NPC's. Theft I'm happy to leave to the constables though.

milkbox

Bounty meters should be visible in delves.

I walked out of Naril Nagaia (Greenshade) with a bounty of 8,200 gold for killing Heritance assassins.

I knew I was getting "stolen" items (some of the Heritance thugs were highlighted in white and didn't attack- I assume they were injured and being tended by menders)- but since I was killing all the other Heritance peeps, I was surprised to discover that I'd been "murdering" some of them. And also, who of the Heritance clan ran to the cops?!

I'm not sure why the bounty meter vanishes when you're in a cave, especially if some of what you do in there turns out to be illegal. Other than that, I think the Justice system is fun.

AlnilamE

ChillsSilvertail wrote: »

I miss the "Woops, didn't mean to sell that, but wanted to launder that item"-buyback option.

Most other issues I ran into with the system is user issues: a.k.a. me dying from OP guards because they just had to turn around at that particular moment (and many ragequits followed).

I like the system. Brings some tension into cities when I choose it to be and it's not forced on me. The big red STEAL word is obvious enough to avoid when needed and for provisioning I can find most items fine in other places.

I've started laundering first, then fencing everything else after.

Saves me a lot of grief.

Nestor

Overall, I like the Justice System, with the caveat that I do not participate in the NPC Murders. I have turned that off. I am also extremely happy the Guards are unkillable and keep the NPC mayhem to reasonable levels. If this one aspect was missing, then I would probably never go into a city again in this game.

What I would like to see tweaked is:

1. Quest NPCs are Immune to PC Attacks. This is speaking to quests where we have to fight mobs where there are other NPCs involved. Prior to this, our attacks did not affect them. Now we have too many variables that can turn us into an outlaw when all we are doing is trying to save NPCs
2. The Refuges need to have their entrances restored. It's kind of weird now that every refuge has what looks like multiple paths out, or in, but there is really only one or two entrances.
3. We should be able to exit out of a lockbox or lock pick without attempting to open the lock and not have the Justice System ding us for an inadvertent click. This can happen for example at the Alchemy Station in Craglorn (Belkarth?) There is a lock box right next to the Alchemy station and it is real easy to accidentally activate it.
4. Laundering and Selling should be better separated in the UI. I recently Laundered a pile of loot I intended to sell to the Fence. Or, at least give us the option to undo the Launder if needed.
5. There should be some more containers that are not owned in the cities and towns. Not a bunch, but some in places where you would expect no one to care about the container

Ffastyl

I have experienced the rush of criminal activities on the PTS. The risk versus reward hits the sweet spot for criminally inclined players. Where the Justice System is lacking is in content for lawful players, like myself on live. I want to see more crimes stopped, and to take part in stopping them. The Enforcers faction will add this, but it will be a gruesome wait.

Natjur

Level up the skill line while its only the guards we have to worry about and once the Enforcers faction is added, switch sides and help the guards out

Hard part is getting mass murders achievement on all my toons without having to pay tons to clear it.
Looks like you can get it and only pay 20k if you do it right.

Nestor

Ffastyl wrote: »

I have experienced the rush of criminal activities on the PTS. The risk versus reward hits the sweet spot for criminally inclined players. Where the Justice System is lacking is in content for lawful players, like myself on live.

There is one lock box in Riften with a patrolling NPC near it. I watched his pattern and made my move at the right time. I got the chest opened and looted and then looked up and he was walking back towards me. If he had turned around one second earlier, I would have been caught. It was so much fun to live that close to the edge. Especially as I had about 40 stolen items on me at the time.

I have to disagree with the Enforcer Aspect of the JS. I see just too much griefing from that. It's fine the way it is now with Uber Boss level Guards keeping the peace. Besides, the Enforcers will never see me as a possible target as I will never be caught, or if I am, and can't escape, I will pay my fine. For the record, I do not and will not participate in NPC murder, even for the Achievement.

Woolenthreads

As a person who wants new recipes, it's quite annoying to me, as I have to "steal" to get them except in certain places. The JS reduces how much I can obtain and the new prov system kicked my purple leveled recipes above my level. So I'm not currently impressed with 1.6. Once I have found a levelled recipe I can eat food from I won't mind at all. I do wonder how they are going to revise the recipes once they drop the VR system though.

UrQuan

Woolenthreads wrote: »

As a person who wants new recipes, it's quite annoying to me, as I have to "steal" to get them except in certain places. The JS reduces how much I can obtain and the new prov system kicked my purple leveled recipes above my level. So I'm not currently impressed with 1.6. Once I have found a levelled recipe I can eat food from I won't mind at all. I do wonder how they are going to revise the recipes once they drop the VR system though.

In case you didn't know, each provisioning writ you complete gives you a recipe. I don't recall ever getting a purple this way, but I've received a ton of greens and blues. Actually, almost all of the blues I know came from writs.

Greycats

I think that the JS will be a lot more meaningful after the Thieves Guild is added. Also, I think that we need the enforcer system for those characters who do not want to steal or murder.

Nestor

Woolenthreads wrote: »

Once I have found a levelled recipe I can eat food from I won't mind at all.

I just found a L35 Purple Food Recipe this weekend. Had to steal it of course, but it was only 13 gold to launder it. Also got the Steal a Purple Achievement too.

If you need some L35 food, message me in game and we can work something out. Like give me the mats and I will make the food for you.

You do get Purples if you using a high level provisioner to do the writs.

Kevinmon

Tandor wrote: »

Polished yes, changed no.

I personally have no wish to see PvP added to the Justice System, it should be kept in Cyrodil. The more PvP intrudes into the open world PvE, the more PvPers will clamour to change the open world PvE.

Gtfo, just because you don't like pvp doesn't mean no one else does.

Woolenthreads

Nestor wrote: »

Woolenthreads wrote: »

Once I have found a levelled recipe I can eat food from I won't mind at all.

I just found a L35 Purple Food Recipe this weekend. Had to steal it of course, but it was only 13 gold to launder it. Also got the Steal a Purple Achievement too.

If you need some L35 food, message me in game and we can work something out. Like give me the mats and I will make the food for you.

You do get Purples if you using a high level provisioner to do the writs.

'tis ok Nestor. I could just level myself up to v5/v10 and start consuming the food I can make. I need to check some of the characters recipes actually, I suspect that one of them might actually have a V1 purple recipe because of 1.6. The VR1 character also happens to be my character with the highest recipes and full recipe improvement. I can also just do writs until I get lucky or search certain places which didn't apparently have the justice system emplaced .

bloodenragedb14_ESO

a few functions from skyrim need to be added, like killing witnesses removes accumulated bounty, guards that can be killed but still difficult, things like that

SantieClaws

Love it as it is ..

However I don't want a PvP element to be introduced to it. The guards are bad enough as it is!

There should be some alternative to losing everything you have in your bags if you are caught for one little thing - like you lose the last 20 items or you can pay a bigger bounty to keep a percentage of your stuff. I had about 40 items stashed up ready for the next day's fencing on Sunday - was all laundered and fenced out for that day. Made one little mistake and lost the lot. Could not run out of Wayrest Castle in time to get back to the refuge

Maybe an extra skill - secret pockets - which lets you keep a certain number of stolen items if you get caught and have to pay a fine.

Ashtaris

Woolenthreads wrote: »

As a person who wants new recipes, it's quite annoying to me, as I have to "steal" to get them except in certain places. The JS reduces how much I can obtain and the new prov system kicked my purple leveled recipes above my level. So I'm not currently impressed with 1.6. Once I have found a levelled recipe I can eat food from I won't mind at all. I do wonder how they are going to revise the recipes once they drop the VR system though.

Although I enjoy being a sneaky NB thief with one of my characters, I can certainly understand your point. There is not enough opprotunity to loot containers for items without becoming a thief, and it seems like it's being forced upon you. Perhaps this will change when ESO brings out the other parts of the justice system so that you can be an Enforcer, collecting rewards, bounties, etc.

reften

Think the improvement needs to be on more long term penalties to continually killing NPCs. Additionally, there needs to be a bigger gain for committing crimes. just seems silly that I can murder NPC after NPC, then just pay some gold and be fine.

Slurg

Ashtaris wrote: »

Woolenthreads wrote: »

As a person who wants new recipes, it's quite annoying to me, as I have to "steal" to get them except in certain places. The JS reduces how much I can obtain and the new prov system kicked my purple leveled recipes above my level. So I'm not currently impressed with 1.6. Once I have found a levelled recipe I can eat food from I won't mind at all. I do wonder how they are going to revise the recipes once they drop the VR system though.

Although I enjoy being a sneaky NB thief with one of my characters, I can certainly understand your point. There is not enough opprotunity to loot containers for items without becoming a thief, and it seems like it's being forced upon you. Perhaps this will change when ESO brings out the other parts of the justice system so that you can be an Enforcer, collecting rewards, bounties, etc.

That's the thing that bothers me a little bit - there is no reward for being an upstanding citizen; but there are many rewards for being a criminal. Yes, if you get caught you get punished, but it's pretty easy to steal recipes and ingredients and not get caught most of the time if you don't get too greedy. But there's zero reward for not participating in a life of crime. In fact, there are certain quests now that you can't even complete unless you break into houses to get to the quest objectives. I thought it was a bug until someone pointed out it is intentional and actually in the patch notes. So yes, being a criminal is forced on you if you want to complete certain content. So it will be interesting if they ever do PVP justice, since virtually all of us will have to commit crime sometimes.

Esha76

At the least, it is a great time killer if you are waiting on people to group up. A quick run through town and hit the safe boxes, or if you don't have time for questing, go steal a few things. And having to watch those guards and NPCs pat around to learn the timing... I think it's a blast. A nice addition to ESO from the original ES games.

I also think, as with the vast majority of aspects with this game, it's a WiP. When Thieves guild and Dark Brotherhood are deployed (eventually), I see a lot more Justice type aspects improving and being added.

Should the Justice system go to an open world PvP, I won't be bothering with it anymore however. I get that people want to play cops and robbers, but I will not partake in that. I am not a PvP person, so I hope something like that would remain to just Cyrodiil. But I know most people don't want Justice restricted to only that zone.

But at the moment, I am really liking it. Working toward that skill line, and achievements, I find extends the life and interest of this game for me.

BBSooner

The big moves I'd make is adding PvP to the justice system, and giving us access to doors when we're in combat (and the NPCs can follow through doors).

Chuggernaut

Overall its a nice addition, but it has some flaws that made it out of QA (surprise surprise I know):

1. Sleeping people cannot be pickpocketed (wtf?!?)
2. Pickpocketing percentages also seem flawed. A max level Bosmer Vampire NB with all the sneak passives unlocked at night has the same ability to pickpocket as a level 9 orc templar during the day. I seriously don't get the logic in that.
3. Drunk npc (from my experience) seem easier to pickpocket, but show the same percentage chance as all other npcs, there should be a visible bonus to pickpocket them as well as npcs that are working or are otherwise engaged.
4. The City Guards of Tamriel have a worldwide network that can track bounties for even the most minor infraction, but cannot find the thieves dens in town to shut them down.
5. The City Guards are using the godmode cheat in every zone. It ridiculous to the main story that any town could ever be under attack by the worm cult, or have undead or werewolf issues with these overpowered thugs in town. Its lazy programming in my opinion, and would make more sense to just allow zone appropriately leveled guards call for reinforcements if they are getting killed of by a high level character
6. Intimidate and Persuasion were not integrated into the Justice System, why??? You should be able to intimidate/persuade better prices and bounties at the very least, and if guards were at a difficulty appropriate to their zone, the intimidate/persuade should be able to be used to make them back off (if the player is a much higher level)

Woolenthreads

Ashtaris wrote: »

Woolenthreads wrote: »

As a person who wants new recipes, it's quite annoying to me, as I have to "steal" to get them except in certain places. The JS reduces how much I can obtain and the new prov system kicked my purple leveled recipes above my level. So I'm not currently impressed with 1.6. Once I have found a levelled recipe I can eat food from I won't mind at all. I do wonder how they are going to revise the recipes once they drop the VR system though.

Although I enjoy being a sneaky NB thief with one of my characters, I can certainly understand your point. There is not enough opprotunity to loot containers for items without becoming a thief, and it seems like it's being forced upon you. Perhaps this will change when ESO brings out the other parts of the justice system so that you can be an Enforcer, collecting rewards, bounties, etc.

I just figure that if they are going to to do this then they should have an experimental recipe system to discover the different recipes at a cooking fire or sell the common green recipes at the grocers.

Woolenthreads wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Woolenthreads wrote: »

Once I have found a levelled recipe I can eat food from I won't mind at all.

If you need some L35 food, message me in game and we can work something out. Like give me the mats and I will make the food for you

I need to check some of the characters recipes actually, I suspect that one of them might actually have a V1 purple recipe because of 1.6.

As it happens I was right, the character I was levelling through AD, because I didn't feel like progressing the VR to Cadwells Gold, happened to have picked up a purple L35 food recipe which converted to a purple VR1 recipe.