To all of you who think EXP Boosting Potions are Pay to Win: You're wrong.

Micallef · March 2015

Froggmann5 wrote: »

We still have absolutely no reason to believe that these will affect champion points. We know that it increases EXPERIENCE points, which is completely seperate from Inspiration and the type of experience Champion points require.

I can't find the thread right now but I remember one of the mods confirmed not long ago that xp pots boost cp gain, because cp are gained through gaining xp.
Maybe someone else has the link.

Skafsgaard · March 2015

Bloodystab wrote: »

OP You are funny.

EXP Booster is like Steroids You paid to win - sooner or later.

And next thing that is a joke for me in that potion is 2h Duration, what I suppose to do in this time? Grind 1 spot to get max effectiveness to not waste any cent from 2$?

ZOS behave like politics in my country...

Are you russian, by any chance?

LameoveR · March 2015

So, this XP potions has no "WIN" button?
What a crap.

WraithAzraiel · March 2015

Here's a crazy thought. Let's wait and see what they do before we implode....maybe?

Bloodystab · March 2015

Skafsgaard wrote: »

Bloodystab wrote: »

OP You are funny.

EXP Booster is like Steroids You paid to win - sooner or later.

And next thing that is a joke for me in that potion is 2h Duration, what I suppose to do in this time? Grind 1 spot to get max effectiveness to not waste any cent from 2$?

ZOS behave like politics in my country...

Are you russian, by any chance?

Nope, but they are my neighbors

Im from Poland

Kova · March 2015

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Here's a crazy thought. Let's wait and see what they do before we implode....maybe?

I know it's best to find peaceful resolutions to things, I get that and you're a breath of kind stuff to bring that in. But sometimes we need to be critical of things in order to force change, or else we are constantly drinking the *** that the ones doing the urinating swear is rain, you know? Being passive is a great way to prevent arguments and ease situations, but there is a time one needs to know when to argue in order to reach a finer solution and prevent getting pissed on.

This potion is only available in the crown store, it indirectly affects CP rate, and will give those who pay to have it a 1200 cp difference in gain rate than someone who is playing at the same rate/effort.

That aforementioned time is now.

WillhelmBlack · March 2015

May aswell put vr14 templates in the crown store then, I'd buy 3 of those.

pronkg · March 2015

Ofcourse this is gonna work on CP. Cp is based on all exp you get. Quests, mobs, chests whatever grants xp.

However 50% is minor. Still yes it's P2W just as sub bonus is.

You are trying to say it's going to be p2w, newsflash it already is lol.

Still the diminishing returns on CP will make this have very low impact

Skafsgaard · March 2015

And how much is it to unlock all 3600 CPs? Over 9000 crowns?

Kova · March 2015

Skafsgaard wrote: »

And how much is it to unlock all 3600 CPs? Over 9000 crowns?

-obligatory DBZ reference-*cough*

Skjoldur · March 2015

amasuriel wrote: »

Yeah the op is just wrong. This would have been correct if the level cap was vr 14, but the level cap is vr14 with 3600 champ points.

Anyone who thinks gaining 50% more champ points is irrelevant hasn't been paying attention.

I proposed in a similar thread, that they should just deactivate the 50% bonus for vr14. That way you can level alts faster and it does not benefit CP acquisition unless you want to level more alts only for the sake of CP.

Kragorn · March 2015

Micallef wrote: »

I can't find the thread right now but I remember one of the mods confirmed not long ago that xp pots boost cp gain, because cp are gained through gaining xp.
Maybe someone else has the link.

Well XP pre-50 doesn't generate CP so clearly there's not an unbreakable connection between one and the other, if the pots do boost CP it's because ZOS want it to, they clearly have the ability to make it no so.

Regoras · March 2015

Today I learned that at end game there is a P2W options via Champion points.

Finally found a reason to buy the XP potions.

LordSkyKnight · March 2015

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he doesn't exist.

Experience potions are pay to win. Period. Stop trying to convince people otherwise. When you factor in champion point gain, it just makes it worse.

MorHawk · March 2015

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Here's a crazy thought. Let's wait and see what they do before we implode....maybe?

You've been here since beta. Surely you're as tired of saying that line as I am?

"That image is probably fake. Let's wait until they announce the Imperial race before we implode. Besides, they'd never launch with those racials"
"Explorer's Pack will never be sold off as an upgrade. Come on, give ZOS a little credit"

And of course, the eternal:
"Console launch/cash shop/etc doesn't mean B2P. Let's wait until ZOS announces a change before we implode"

You really give them *any* credibility any more?

angel59 · March 2015

I have a soluton. Eliminate all experience potions, then limit the daily play time to the average of all players. You should not be able to get ahead of me by playing more than me because I have a job, family and other real life activities.

This play to win garbage is unfair because you will get more cp by being behind your gaming computer all day. If we dont want to use the average player time, then let ZOS define some mythical character, kind of like the one the p2w people talk about, and limit all gain to match this mythical character. Seems fair to me.

P2W, I think not.

Ballzy321 · March 2015

I can't believe all these topics on Xperience potions. Every free to play game has this kinda stuff. We should be happy this is it for now. If other mmo's are ne indication they will add something else worse than an xp potion trust me. It's not a sub ne more and I think we have to accept it and move on.

PKMN12 · March 2015

Ballzy321 wrote: »

I can't believe all these topics on Xperience potions. Every free to play game has this kinda stuff. We should be happy this is it for now. If other mmo's are ne indication they will add something else worse than an xp potion trust me. It's not a sub ne more and I think we have to accept it and move on.

okay, and then this game will lost much of the palyerbase and become an empty grave no one cares about.

AleriSadasIndoril · March 2015

I do not understand this, let the people play as they want!!!

PKMN12 · March 2015

AleriSadasIndoril wrote: »

I do not understand this, let the people play as they want!!!

okay, and then this game becomes a bunch of people paying money to win PVP and the onl people doing endgame money are people with money in the bank. have fun with that kind of game.

Aerieth · March 2015

As long as these potions don't increase Champion Experience, I'm fine with them.

Champion Points equal power. If you gain more power with exact same playtime - and exp gaining method - than another who's not using the potions, that's the very definition of "Pay to Win". You pay real money to gain a huge advantage over players not spending money. How hard is that for people to understand?

angel59 · March 2015

Aerieth wrote: »

As long as these potions don't increase Champion Experience, I'm fine with them.

Champion Points equal power. If you gain more power with exact same playtime - and exp gaining method - than another who's not using the potions, that's the very definition of "Pay to Win". You pay real money to gain a huge advantage over players not spending money. How hard is that for people to understand?

So I guess that we should limit daily playtime. Otherwise you may have more cp today than me because you can play 6 hours and I can only play 2. Seems fair to do it that way based on your comments.

At the end of the day, year or decade we will all be at the same place. It is the rate of gains that that the p2w want limited, except when they are ahead of everyone else (Whatever that means). There is no diffefence at the end of the journey. Therefore, there is no pay to win.

If you are afraid someone may get ahead, then you should be arguing for a fixed period of playtime. Once you hit that, yoy have to stop. Or ZOS can allow you to play, but you get no experience or cp points. Now that seems fair.

Fruity_Ninja · March 2015

Aerieth wrote: »

As long as these potions don't increase Champion Experience, I'm fine with them.

Who is going to buy them then? They would be next to useless as the VR1-14 grind is short and easy. And how is ZOS going to fund their game? You think people will buy mounts and costumes over and over? Or would they purchase more quantity of XP potions to waste less time grinding out CPs and levels?

If noone buys from the Crown Store and/or subs, then there will be no game. People will purchase XP potions, ZOS isn't stupid.

PKMN12 · March 2015

Fruity_Ninja wrote: »

Aerieth wrote: »

As long as these potions don't increase Champion Experience, I'm fine with them.

Who is going to buy them then? They would be next to useless as the VR1-14 grind is short and easy. And how is ZOS going to fund their game? You think people will buy mounts and costumes over and over? Or would they purchase more quantity of XP potions to waste less time grinding out CPs and levels?

If noone buys from the Crown Store and/or subs, then there will be no game. People will purchase XP potions, ZOS isn't stupid.

buying costumes and other cosmetics/small conveniances (like repair, bank access from anywhere, etc) works fine for LOL, Secret World, planetside 2, GW2 etc

yes, ZOS is stupid if they think their game will still be liked by an decent player if they go ahead and do something like this.

eventide03b14a_ESO · March 2015

Froggmann5 wrote: »

EXP Boosting Potions (on moderate levels, nothing exorbitant like a 5000% boost) give absolutely no statistical benefit to any one player over another.

It is exactly like Zenimax said it was: A convenience item. All it does is allow players to reach higher Veteran levels slightly faster. And guess what? It's never going to affect you. You'll never be affected in any negative way over these potions. Most of the time, you're not going to know anyone is even using one.

"BUT WAIT" - Concerned All-Knowing Player "This means that people will be able to level all of their Alts to VR14 and get MAX ARMOUR and have ALL THE SKILLPOINTS in less than A DAY. HOW IS THAT NOT PAY TO WIN??!11!?"

Relax, it's not like people are suddenly going to appear as max level with the best gear/max skillpoints as soon as they drink the potion. It is still going to take a considerable amount of time to level even one character past VR1. And even then, they'll always be ahead of their zones leveling curb, meaning they'll either have to take the same amount of time obtaining skyshards/skillpoints, or just ignore them entirely.

You won't notice it. If you log off one day, you can log on the next and not even know how much/little someone has level'd up over night. And it wouldn't matter, there are already thousands of players at max level. You would never be able to look into a crowd and say, "That one used XP boosting potions.". Not to mention they'll be buyable with in-game gold.

These potions will not:

* Make anyone stronger than another.
* Magically create super strong VR14 characters in a week. Or even a month.
* Give anyone End-Game armour or stats.

Most of you seem to forget, that most other big MMOs give instant level boosts.

In Wow, you can literally buy max level characters.

Can you all just chill out? A Temporary 2 hour 50% XP boosting potion, that you have to rebuy constantly to even feel the best effects from it, is not going to hurt anyone.

Getting higher levels faster and getting more CPs than other people faster. How is this not P2W? Seriously. If you have more CPs in Cyrodiil it WILL absolutely make a difference. So much for skill when it really just comes down to how much you're willing to pay.

Froggmann5 wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

It normally would NOT be a problem. the problem here is that there is something AFTER leveling that requires XP and seriously effects how good you are in terms of stats. If it was not for the Champion point system, no one woul be complaining. Thanks to the Champion System those XP pots means MUCH better stats than a normal person is likely to get. at a 70% boost with the rings of mara and sub bonus, someone who buys these thigns are going to have MUCH better stats than someone who did not.

We still have absolutely no reason to believe that these will affect champion points. We know that it increases EXPERIENCE points, which is completely seperate from Inspiration and the type of experience Champion points require.

We also know that the Devs said that these would be buy able with in-game gold.

How will it not effect champion points? When did the devs say we would be able to buy them with in game gold? You need to cite that source because I have never heard anything about that.

Snit · March 2015

There is no universally accepted definition of "win."

PKMN12 · March 2015

Snit wrote: »

There is no universally accepted definition of "win."

having a direct advantage over someone who does not pay money is the dictionary definition of P2W.

MissBizz · March 2015

I don't think anyone has any issue with people using them to get to VR14. Where people are concerned is after VR1 (or, after VR14) where this XP may count towards Champion Points. That's what everyone cares about. The gap is already quite large between hardcore players and casuals. This would cause that gap to grow even larger, and that DOES matter in PvP

MissBizz · March 2015

MissBizz wrote: »

I don't think anyone has any issue with people using them to get to VR14. Where people are concerned is after VR1 (or, after VR14) where this XP may count towards Champion Points. That's what everyone cares about. The gap is already quite large between hardcore players and casuals. This would cause that gap to grow even larger, and that DOES matter in PvP

[EDIT] I would be fine with XP potions that boost it by 10% (and could last a bit longer), as that would be a paid way to be equal to the paying subscribers.

PKMN12 · March 2015

MissBizz wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

I don't think anyone has any issue with people using them to get to VR14. Where people are concerned is after VR1 (or, after VR14) where this XP may count towards Champion Points. That's what everyone cares about. The gap is already quite large between hardcore players and casuals. This would cause that gap to grow even larger, and that DOES matter in PvP

[EDIT] I would be fine with XP potions that boost it by 10% (and could last a bit longer), as that would be a paid way to be equal to the paying subscribers.

Yeah, pretty sure most people would be fine with that, as their were no arguments and none of use were complaining when they had said it would be 10%.