To all of you who think EXP Boosting Potions are Pay to Win: You're wrong.

Froggmann5 · March 2015

EXP Boosting Potions (on moderate levels, nothing exorbitant like a 5000% boost) give absolutely no statistical benefit to any one player over another.

It is exactly like Zenimax said it was: A convenience item. All it does is allow players to reach higher Veteran levels slightly faster. And guess what? It's never going to affect you. You'll never be affected in any negative way over these potions. Most of the time, you're not going to know anyone is even using one.

"BUT WAIT" - Concerned All-Knowing Player "This means that people will be able to level all of their Alts to VR14 and get MAX ARMOUR and have ALL THE SKILLPOINTS in less than A DAY. HOW IS THAT NOT PAY TO WIN??!11!?"

Relax, it's not like people are suddenly going to appear as max level with the best gear/max skillpoints as soon as they drink the potion. It is still going to take a considerable amount of time to level even one character past VR1. And even then, they'll always be ahead of their zones leveling curb, meaning they'll either have to take the same amount of time obtaining skyshards/skillpoints, or just ignore them entirely.

You won't notice it. If you log off one day, you can log on the next and not even know how much/little someone has level'd up over night. And it wouldn't matter, there are already thousands of players at max level. You would never be able to look into a crowd and say, "That one used XP boosting potions.". Not to mention they'll be buyable with in-game gold.

These potions will not:

* Make anyone stronger than another.
* Magically create super strong VR14 characters in a week. Or even a month.
* Give anyone End-Game armour or stats.

Most of you seem to forget, that most other big MMOs give instant level boosts.

In Wow, you can literally buy max level characters.

Can you all just chill out? A Temporary 2 hour 50% XP boosting potion, that you have to rebuy constantly to even feel the best effects from it, is not going to hurt anyone.

PKMN12 · March 2015

It normally would NOT be a problem. the problem here is that there is something AFTER leveling that requires XP and seriously effects how good you are in terms of stats. If it was not for the Champion point system, no one woul be complaining. Thanks to the Champion System those XP pots means MUCH better stats than a normal person is likely to get. at a 70% boost with the rings of mara and sub bonus, someone who buys these thigns are going to have MUCH better stats than someone who did not.

amasuriel · March 2015

Yeah the op is just wrong. This would have been correct if the level cap was vr 14, but the level cap is vr14 with 3600 champ points.

Anyone who thinks gaining 50% more champ points is irrelevant hasn't been paying attention.

Tonturri · March 2015

You have left out how it will influence the acquisition of Champion Points, as PKMN 12 said.

Most of you seem to forget, that most other big MMOs give instant level boosts.

I at least would be okay with it if the exp gain potions only effected leveling speed, and not CP gain speed. But...insofar as I know, there hasn't been any confirmation that will be the case.

Your entire post is pretty much pointless.

Froggmann5 · March 2015

PKMN12 wrote: »

It normally would NOT be a problem. the problem here is that there is something AFTER leveling that requires XP and seriously effects how good you are in terms of stats. If it was not for the Champion point system, no one woul be complaining. Thanks to the Champion System those XP pots means MUCH better stats than a normal person is likely to get. at a 70% boost with the rings of mara and sub bonus, someone who buys these thigns are going to have MUCH better stats than someone who did not.

We still have absolutely no reason to believe that these will affect champion points. We know that it increases EXPERIENCE points, which is completely seperate from Inspiration and the type of experience Champion points require.

We also know that the Devs said that these would be buy able with in-game gold.

Reykice · March 2015

amasuriel wrote: »

Yeah the op is just wrong. This would have been correct if the level cap was vr 14, but the level cap is vr14 with 3600 champ points.

Anyone who thinks gaining 50% more champ points is irrelevant hasn't been paying attention.

I agree. The OP does not know why people are raging.

Its not about the leveling part... sure you get VR14 faster, so what? Its about getting Champion Points 50% faster, that makes it pay to win. If they wouldn`t touch the Champion Point generation nobody would care about the XP pots.

I will add that they just nerfed the XP gain from killing by a large margin... as they did not want players to get Champion points too fast. And now they add XP potions? Its so lame... its a clear move to make money from a pay to win mechanic.

Froggmann5 · March 2015

Tonturri wrote: »

You have left out how it will influence the acquisition of Champion Points, as PKMN 12 said.

Most of you seem to forget, that most other big MMOs give instant level boosts.

I at least would be okay with it if the exp gain potions only effected leveling speed, and not CP gain speed. But...insofar as I know, there hasn't been any confirmation that will be the case.

Your entire post is pretty much pointless.

These potions will be buyable with in-game gold. Your response is irrelevant, as you don't have to use real life money to obtain them.

Inactive Account · March 2015

So 50% with the potion, 20% with the Rings of Mara, and 10% with a paid sub... whats that equal?

Edit: should that read 10% for the rings?

Froggmann5 · March 2015

Reykice wrote: »

I agree. The OP does not know why people are raging.

Its not about the leveling part... sure you get VR14 faster, so what? Its about getting Champion Points 50% faster, that makes it pay to win. If they wouldn`t touch the Champion Point generation nobody would care about the XP pots.

I will add that they just nerfed the XP gain from killing by a large margin... as they did not want players to get Champion points too fast. And now they add XP potions? Its so lame... its a clear move to make money from a pay to win mechanic.

This is just naysaying. Experience Points and what's upheld through the Champion system, are two completely different types of experience, and we have no idea whether or not it affects champion points.

This is all nullified by the fact that you can purchase these particular potions with in-game gold.

Reykice · March 2015

Froggmann5 wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

It normally would NOT be a problem. the problem here is that there is something AFTER leveling that requires XP and seriously effects how good you are in terms of stats. If it was not for the Champion point system, no one woul be complaining. Thanks to the Champion System those XP pots means MUCH better stats than a normal person is likely to get. at a 70% boost with the rings of mara and sub bonus, someone who buys these thigns are going to have MUCH better stats than someone who did not.

We still have absolutely no reason to believe that these will affect champion points. We know that it increases EXPERIENCE points, which is completely seperate from Inspiration and the type of experience Champion points require.

We also know that the Devs said that these would be buy able with in-game gold.

You are wrong again.... are you a ZENIMAX employee by any chance?

They said that they would sell the pots for gold, but changed their mind. Selling them for 5k gold or something would have not made things better.

They also said that any xp bonus affects the Champion System since the entire Champion System is tied to XP gain. Its not a different mechanic, that is the mechanic.

Stop misleading people...

EDIT: The forums are raging about this, they see it... if nothing about this were true they would just say so.

As you can see they are reading the forums and responding, but not about this particular issue as they have nothing more to say, it is as we fear, a pay to win move to try and sell people XP pots and make them grind Champion Points faster... for more power. You pay to gain power faster... welcome to a Perfect Worlds game.

They could just make the potions work without adding Champion Points, if people rage enough they might, but its clear that, just like ESO plus, the XP gain will lead to more Champion Points.

Gidorick · March 2015

Reykice wrote: »

Froggmann5 wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

It normally would NOT be a problem. the problem here is that there is something AFTER leveling that requires XP and seriously effects how good you are in terms of stats. If it was not for the Champion point system, no one woul be complaining. Thanks to the Champion System those XP pots means MUCH better stats than a normal person is likely to get. at a 70% boost with the rings of mara and sub bonus, someone who buys these thigns are going to have MUCH better stats than someone who did not.

We still have absolutely no reason to believe that these will affect champion points. We know that it increases EXPERIENCE points, which is completely seperate from Inspiration and the type of experience Champion points require.

We also know that the Devs said that these would be buy able with in-game gold.

You are wrong again.... are you a ZENIMAX employee by any chance?

They said that they would sell the pots for gold, but changed their mind. Selling them for 5k gold or something would have not made things better.

They also said that any xp bonus affects the Champion System since the entire Champion System is tied to XP gain. Its not a different mechanic, that is the mechanic.

Stop misleading people...

EDIT: The forums are raging about this, they see it... if nothing about this were true they would just say so.

As you can see they are reading the forums and responding, but not about this particular issue as they have nothing more to say, it is as we fear, a pay to win move to try and sell people XP pots and make them grind Champion Points faster... for more power. You pay to gain power faster... welcome to a Perfect Worlds game.

They could just make the potions work without adding Champion Points, if people rage enough they might, but its clear that, just like ESO plus, the XP gain will lead to more Champion Points.

I WISH ESO were a Perfect World game! We would have the Foundry to play with...

Lionxoft · March 2015

Froggmann5 wrote: »

EXP Boosting Potions (on moderate levels, nothing exorbitant like a 5000% boost) give absolutely no statistical benefit to any one player over another.

It is exactly like Zenimax said it was: A convenience item. All it does is allow players to reach higher Veteran levels slightly faster. And guess what? It's never going to affect you. You'll never be affected in any negative way over these potions. Most of the time, you're not going to know anyone is even using one.

"BUT WAIT" - Concerned All-Knowing Player "This means that people will be able to level all of their Alts to VR14 and get MAX ARMOUR and have ALL THE SKILLPOINTS in less than A DAY. HOW IS THAT NOT PAY TO WIN??!11!?"

Relax, it's not like people are suddenly going to appear as max level with the best gear/max skillpoints as soon as they drink the potion. It is still going to take a considerable amount of time to level even one character past VR1. And even then, they'll always be ahead of their zones leveling curb, meaning they'll either have to take the same amount of time obtaining skyshards/skillpoints, or just ignore them entirely.

You won't notice it. If you log off one day, you can log on the next and not even know how much/little someone has level'd up over night. And it wouldn't matter, there are already thousands of players at max level. You would never be able to look into a crowd and say, "That one used XP boosting potions.". Not to mention they'll be buyable with in-game gold.

These potions will not:

* Make anyone stronger than another.
* Magically create super strong VR14 characters in a week. Or even a month.
* Give anyone End-Game armour or stats.

Most of you seem to forget, that most other big MMOs give instant level boosts.

In Wow, you can literally buy max level characters.

Can you all just chill out? A Temporary 2 hour 50% XP boosting potion, that you have to rebuy constantly to even feel the best effects from it, is not going to hurt anyone.

You don't understand the problem that people have with them and it's obvious because you didn't mention the Champion System even once in your original post. While the bolded is partly true in that it will help people get to VR14 faster but xp bonuses also apply post VR14 which grants power through the champion system even as low as VR1.

I have absolutely no problem with an item assisting players to lv50 because not everyone wants to grind up to Veteran Ranks but beyond that is pushing it. Making it strictly a cash shop only item is going way too far.

All xp bonuses are additive experience bonuses and some earned by just opening up your wallet. There are players called "Whales" in most online gaming communities. They buy everything and they don't stop buying. They are the target customer because while some might think spending $5,000-$10,000 or more per year on a game is ridiculous they find it completely worth it.

You might not think the power difference will be large but a lot of us have tested and experienced first hand how powerful one can become after accruing a significant amount of Champion Points in different assortments.

PKMN12 · March 2015

Froggmann5 wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

You have left out how it will influence the acquisition of Champion Points, as PKMN 12 said.

Most of you seem to forget, that most other big MMOs give instant level boosts.

I at least would be okay with it if the exp gain potions only effected leveling speed, and not CP gain speed. But...insofar as I know, there hasn't been any confirmation that will be the case.

Your entire post is pretty much pointless.

These potions will be buyable with in-game gold. Your response is irrelevant, as you don't have to use real life money to obtain them.

They changed their mind on the gold thing

Also, no it DOES effect champion points as they are tied to XP.

IF, IF they had anything to say to the contrary, why are they not saying anything. IF you could get them with gold or they did not effect champion points, then they would have said something to stop the near-riot.

Lionxoft · March 2015

Froggmann5 wrote: »

Reykice wrote: »

I agree. The OP does not know why people are raging.

Its not about the leveling part... sure you get VR14 faster, so what? Its about getting Champion Points 50% faster, that makes it pay to win. If they wouldn`t touch the Champion Point generation nobody would care about the XP pots.

I will add that they just nerfed the XP gain from killing by a large margin... as they did not want players to get Champion points too fast. And now they add XP potions? Its so lame... its a clear move to make money from a pay to win mechanic.

This is all nullified by the fact that you can purchase these particular potions with in-game gold.

I think you're referring to the Road Ahead article which was altered to remove the guarantee or statement which said the option of purchasing with in-game gold or Crowns was a possibility. They no longer state that they can be bought with another method beyond crowns. We are waiting on confirmation and details of it's implementation however there's no reason to change the verbiage of the letter in that particular part if they had no intention of changing how the boosters are offered.

"As such, I can tell you that we'll almost certainly have experience boost potions in the store at some point, as this kind of shortcut (spending less time to gain experience) is classified as a convenience. That way, you still have the choice of purchasing them with crowns or in-game gold."

And it was altered to:

"As such, I can tell you that we'll almost certainly have experience boost potions in the store at some point, as this kind of shortcut (spending less time to gain experience) is classified as a convenience. We're still discussing what convenience items we'll also make available for purchase in-game with gold. Nothing is defined yet, though."

Rydik · March 2015

Lets say i and another man start to play at one moment, he drinks potion and im not, after x time he will have 50% more CP than me, its clearly P2W...

LucyferLightbringer · March 2015

If VR14 was max and nothing past it would agree with you. But there is a champion system and i will be meeting those boosted players, with 50% more champion points than me in WvWvW, also they changed their minds, we won't be able to buy them for gold. 10% pernament xp increase we get for subing is more than enough of a XP potion.

Dazin93 · March 2015

If this goes live, everyone that is complaining is going to head right to the crown store and use their 3K+ crowns purchasing as many boosters as they can.

Veteran players are mostly VR 14, have 70+ CP's, thousands of crowns, and are still worried about maintaining a competitive advantage? You can't be serious. A new casual player that started TODAY would still take 1-2 months to even start earning champion points so what is all the concern really.

Sure in theory a player could drop 10g's or something and blow past everyone, another player can hack the game, and another can find exploits ect. There are always outliers that are not representative of the norm.

Most all established MMO's have boosted exp areas/fast track servers/immediate max lvl characters ect for new players so they can at least try to compete.

I think most PvE players don't care about this at all and the players that do obviously want to play 1vX instead of PvP.

PKMN12 · March 2015

Dazin93 wrote: »

If this goes live, everyone that is complaining is going to head right to the crown store and use their 3K+ crowns purchasing as many boosters as they can.

Veteran players are mostly VR 14, have 70+ CP's, thousands of crowns, and are still worried about maintaining a competitive advantage? You can't be serious. A new casual player that started TODAY would still take 1-2 months to even start earning champion points so what is all the concern really.

Sure in theory a player could drop 10g's or something and blow past everyone, another player can hack the game, and another can find exploits ect. There are always outliers that are not representative of the norm.

Most all established MMO's have boosted exp areas/fast track servers/immediate max lvl characters ect for new players so they can at least try to compete.

I think most PvE players don't care about this at all and the players that do obviously want to play 1vX instead of PvP.

well, yeah, of course they would likely buy them, it would be the only way to do anything.

Few to no other game has anything like that Champion system though. Your entire view is flawed because you are not bringing that into account. again, those "new players" are not the only ones going to be using those XP pots, so would the vets who are already at a high level, it would do nothing but make you have to pay money to at least possibly keep up with the higher leveled players.

golfer.dub17_ESO · March 2015

Some guy grinded to V14 in a single day...I don't care. Everyone hits that limit eventually, most people are already at that limit on at least one of their accounts. That's not people's concern here.

Your post forgets entirely about champion points.

Champion points don't really have a max limit. You just get more and more, and you get stronger the more you get, so the faster you can get those the further you are ahead of the competition. And buffs like 12% weapon crit are nothing to scoff at.

rynth · March 2015

Lol perhaps before you all go nuts cry complain etc etc etc. you might
Want to wait for an actual post by Zeno before you know all jump to conclusion I mean that just makes sense My gosh how old are all of you people lol

PKMN12 · March 2015

rynth wrote: »

Lol perhaps before you all go nuts cry complain etc etc etc. you might
Want to wait for an actual post by Zeno before you know all jump to conclusion I mean that just makes sense My gosh how old are all of you people lol

A Picture is worth a thousand words, it is IN THE GAME CODE AS OF THIS MOMENT. The fact that they have NOT SAID A THING actually proves that this is what they want. IF this was a mistake, or something else, or it is possible to get them with gold at a reasonable price or anything to make it not P2W then someone would have said something, anything.

Iluvrien · March 2015

rynth wrote: »

Lol perhaps before you all go nuts cry complain etc etc etc. you might
Want to wait for an actual post by Zeno before you know all jump to conclusion I mean that just makes sense My gosh how old are all of you people lol

Because ZOS has established a pattern of behaviour where they intentionally don't post information about topics that might stir up the community, until forced to by the weight of comments, usually in the hope of it all just going away... eventually.

I'm old enough to be able to form coherent sentences on an internet forum without using "lol". How about you?

Reykice · March 2015

Yea, nice how that changed that.

ElliottXO · March 2015

Being unemployed to win is much more unfair than a 50% XP potion. I should file a complaint to ZOS that they are not blocking unemployed from the game.

Xsorus · March 2015

50% potions are not the same as gaining cp 50% faster.. Let's nip that in the butt right
If for example u pop that pot and kill mobs slower then me I'll gain it as fast or faster then you.
There are plenty of scenarios like that as well.. You will always have someone who will also post "well if they do the same things ect ect" which never holds up in actual practice

Let's put it this way, an xp boost already exists in terms of subscriber vs non subscriber, but very few people consider it pay to win except the few die hards who consider everything pay to win

Hell you can argue the imperial race is pay to win since it'll result in not only a damage increase via stamina boost but you'll have less down time via the heal.

Soulshine · March 2015

ElliottXO wrote: »

Being unemployed to win is much more unfair than a 50% XP potion. I should file a complaint to ZOS that they are not blocking unemployed from the game.

LOL!

Can you imagine? New MMO in 2016 ToS:

*Must be over 21yrs (we require legal US drinking age for all due to mature content)
*Must be gainfully employed a minimum of 8hrs a day 5 days a week (proof of W2 and 1040 will be required)
*My not reside in a basement, on cousin's couch, or any other dwelling not one's own (proof of lease, mortgage must be rendered)
*May not play the game more than 2 hrs a day/355 days a year* (Special permission for the other 10 days a year will be issued on a first come first server basis at holiday and vacation times. Perma bans from the server and the forums will be issued for excessive play beyond this limit).

What did I forget?

Anilahation · March 2015

Eh I'd rather get the CP grind over with Tbh

sparafucilsarwb17_ESO · March 2015

These 50% pots reeks of p2w. That is NOT OK.

Skafsgaard · March 2015

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

Eh I'd rather get the CP grind over with Tbh

We need 5000 CPs, right? It was just increased in 2.x patch notes..

it will never end, bro

Nifty2g · March 2015

Any ETA when these potions are out

Bloodystab · March 2015

OP You are funny.

EXP Booster is like Steroids You paid to win - sooner or later.

And next thing that is a joke for me in that potion is 2h Duration, what I suppose to do in this time? Grind 1 spot to get max effectiveness to not waste any cent from 2$?

ZOS behave like politics in my country...