"What I Wish": My opinion on what ESO wins at and what it lacks. A hardcore gamer's opinion.

Kildayen · March 2015

What I Wish...

This game has nailed a few things but has failed on others. I know not everyone will agree with me, but as a more hardcore player I feel that I speak for those who have my same play style.

Before I start, I would like to share with you my definition of hardcore. What it means to me. Why do I consider myself hardcore? I am someone who has over 73 days played time when you type the /played command and almost 13,000 achievement points. I have made one character only and do everything to master him. I feel that if I create another character, it will take time away that I could be using to master my main character (Sorc). I spend hundreds of thousands of gold and hours and hours theory crafting. I try to make sure my character is super efficient at what he does. I want him to be the best and will not stop until he gets to the top. I am a completionist (is that a word?). When I do a quest, I read everything and make sure I complete it all. I have completed pretty much every quest in the game. I have defeated every trial. I have explored almost every bit of land looking for hidden gems/visuals. I am a Master at every craft in the game. I could spend more time researching certain traits that I am missing, but that isn't very important to me at the moment. I dedicate so much of my heart and time to this game. I do so because I enjoy it and I want to be part of the elite. I am a perfectionist with everything I do in life, and gaming is part of that.

First off, this game is the most beautiful game I have ever played. I can get lost in some of the amazing visuals. I play on a very high end computer and monitor which can handle everything and I appreciate the moments of awesomeness I experience when roaming throughout the lands. The way the sunlight beams through the branches in a tree or the clouds and the fog. The way the dark and evil places truly envelop me in the uncomfortable atmosphere they portray. The different NPCs spread throughout the land. The conversations they have with each other. The things I overhear them talking about. Sometimes I laugh and sometimes I feel like punching them in the face! The different animals and how they react to their surroundings. The way my horse turns his head to the right when I am sprinting and turning right with my view zoomed all the way in. I feel like I'm really there! The way I felt after completing a quest (before I finished them all) and everyone was there cheering me on and thanking me. The way I get recognized as a hero in certain zones. This game has nailed it when it comes to the full immersion.

But then there are things that I wish the game wasn't lacking.

Some of the rewards are great... until they are all they game has to offer and then everyone else has the exact same thing. I will break this down into different points.

- Why aren't their any real unique rewards in this game? Every other game I have played has had them.

- Why when finishing a hard-mode trial is the loot not anything better than the regular loot? The stats maybe have 4 more magicka or stamina. Nothing really different from the normal mode.

- Why isn't there really cool looking rewards for certain quests or achievements? Why does everyone get the same looking weapon and armor? Maybe make those hard-mode completes drop the same item but with rare cool looking visuals as well as additional stats.

- Why are things like the new Nightmare horse available in the crown store? They are so cool looking but I don't even want to waste crowns on them because everyone has or will have one. Why couldn't something like that be a reward for a hard quest or a rare trial/dungeon drop? It makes no sense to me why it isn't this way. I totally understand that it is all about the money for Zenimax and they want people to spend money in the store. It just should have been different in my opinion.

- Same with the Senche mount. That is something for those of us who were here from the beginning. Now everyone can have one. Yes, ours will be a little different, but what the heck? Let people earn them through a hard quest or rare dungeon/trial drop.

- Why can't we duel each other? Why can't we have a special zone for this. Or even a command. I remember in Everquest all I had to do was type /duel when I was targeted on someone and if they agreed, it was showtime!

I really feel, and so far it seems to be proven, that ZOS doesn't care about the more hardcore players and would be happier if we went away so they wouldn't have to deal with our complaining. Right now without any new content I am at a complete point of boredom when logging into the game. I don't even feel like logging in anymore. It's a real shame because I really loved everything about this game. It is just boring now. If they would add these rare and unique elements to the game it would give me a reason to keep on logging in and beating that same trial or dungeon over and over again.

Please don't respond to this with the same "You shouldn't play so hardcore" or "slow down and enjoy the game and scenery" responses that I have seen in so many other threads. Those of you who aren't hardcore players don't understand us when you make comments like that. I am blessed to have a life that allows me to play games the way I do. I really love this game. Or at least I used to.

Please make it fun for me "us" again.

-Kildayen

crislevin · March 2015

It seems you have put enormous stress on reward for "hardcore quest". But not everybody is that into those things. Should they never get any of these rewards?

You said yourself, ESO is a vivid virtual life, and people enjoy living it, and not everything in life is leveling, questing and stealing.

DDuke · March 2015

I totally agree with the OP, these are my exact feelings about the game as well, and the major reason why most people I knew quit the game somewhere around last summer.

Lack of challenging and rewarding content.

Back in the WoW launch days, you had months worth of progression to do in terms of content, and then epic items & gear (e.g. Sulfuras) that kept you interested.

Nothing like that exists in ESO.

No epic raids with months worth of wiping, fun, progression & memorable events.
No interesting gear (or rare mounts) that make you excited to complete the raid (and multiple times).

Nothing.

Same applies to other group content, 99% of the rewards are incredibly underwhelming.

gurugeorgey · March 2015

It takes time for an MMO to develop the kind of high-end content that satisfies the hardcore. It even took WoW a few years.

All told, TESO is in pretty good shape for an MMO that's only a year old, and it seems to me that the devs have a plan and are sticking to it, which is good.

For someone in the OP position, there's nothing to do but leave the game and come back a few months down the road. The game will still be here, and hopefully things will have changed enough to encourage a new bout of enthusiasm and interest.

Generally, it's harder for a solo hardcore player, because a lot of the staying power of an MMO comes from the friends you make and the people you play with. For an "Explorer" type of player like the OP, any game is always going to have a limit on what's new and interesting to explore and discover, and what challenges there may be.

Kildayen · March 2015

crislevin wrote: »

It seems you have put enormous stress on reward for "hardcore quest". But not everybody is that into those things. Should they never get any of these rewards?

That is correct. If they don't work as hard as I do, why should they get the same rewards I would get? It's just like in real life. If I wasn't as hardcore as I am with my job, would it be as successful as it is now? Would I have all this free time to play video games? Heck no! If you want what I have, you have to work just as hard as me to get it. It's called my goals. I have a goal and I make sure I do everything I can to complete it to the best of my ability. If there is a reward I want, I do what I have to do to get it.

Should a person who never went to medical school have the same job as someone who spent years of hard work in school? Nope! Why should the game be any different?

crislevin wrote: »

You said yourself, ESO is a vivid virtual life, and people enjoy living it, and not everything in life is leveling, questing and stealing.

But for those of us who want the best in life, its all about working hard and doing what we have to do to be the best. If you are happy with not being the best, who am I to judge you? Just don't judge me because I want a better life and you are satisfied with yours. Make sense? (This is in no way an attack on you. I'm just making a point)

Let me rephrase it in game talk:

But for those of us who want the best experience and gear in game, its all about working hard and doing what we have to do (questing and leveling) to be the best. If you are happy at not being the best or wanting a more relaxing life, who am I to judge you? Just don't judge me because I want a better game experience if you are satisfied with less. Make sense?

badmojo · March 2015

You've only played 1/4th of the classes in this game, doesn't that bother you?

DDuke · March 2015

gurugeorgey wrote: »

It takes time for an MMO to develop the kind of high-end content that satisfies the hardcore. It even took WoW a few years.

-snip-

WoW had awesome high-end content day-1, not after a few years. What you state here is misleading.
Without this high-end content, it wouldn't have become the successful game it is today.

Molten Core (first clear 5 months after launch, took most guilds over half a year to finish)
Onyxia's Lair (World First 2 months after launch)
(shortly after first guilds cleared MC) Blackwing Lair (2,5 months for World First)

Two of these were in the game since Day-1, the third was released while most people were still working on first two raids.
They also host some of my best gaming experiences to date.

Similar content is what ESO completely lacked at launch and still mostly lacks, and why it isn't the great (and succesfull) game it could be.

Darkonflare15 · March 2015

To each its own. Reward is a subjective term but I would like more unique items for things that take a long time to do. Like researching.

Arreyanne · March 2015

Vertical progression is the problem with most MMO''s, now.

Sure WoW still does it so every other game should as well, right?

Wow has been bleeding subs for the past two to three years, maybe not enough to put a dent in the bottom, it's just simply a fact.

I would rather have some type of leaderboard, fastest clear -weekly-monthly-quarterly

Then you can cater to different type of people, not just:

" Doing X hard mode dungeon, must have gear score of 2 million, do 600k DPS, and must have proof of 200 clears in the last week. And been born during the first full moon of the second quarter of the first month and first week of that month., between the hours of 9am and 9:15 am"

JD2013 · March 2015

Not all of us have the time to put 72 days in and play hardcore. There's a little thing called life, work, spouses and all those other little things that take up a person's time.

I get where you're coming from. There does need to be more content. On this we do agree. In fact, I would greatly like to see dungeons that take longer than 20 minutes to clear. I have a few spare hours to play games each week, so bigger and harder group content could be fun.

Panda244 · March 2015

If you haven't gotten Emperor or rank 50 in Cyrodiil you're not a completionist

No seriously though, just gotta wait for new content to be released.

Naor_Sarethi · March 2015

the hardcore is hardcore with this one

DDuke · March 2015

Arreyanne wrote: »

Vertical progression is the problem with most MMO''s, now.

Sure WoW still does it so every other game should as well, right?

Wow has been bleeding subs for the past two to three years, maybe not enough to put a dent in the bottom, it's just simply a fact.

I would rather have some type of leaderboard, fastest clear -weekly-monthly-quarterly

-snip-

Wait, isn't this what ESO tried? Clearly it isn't working, when people got bored, left the game & game went B2P.

Just take a look at Trials forums for a reality check, there's not much enthusiasm there for running the same content over & over again for almost non-existent rewards.

Fastest time? Leaderboards? I honestly don't think most people really care about those.

What matters are the World Firsts, long progression & then actually beating the difficult content.

Not how fast you clear the dungeon, which in itself is a bad design since it promotes creating quick, repeatable content that feels more like a glorified group dungeon, than an epic raid.

Nor is WoW actually "bleeding subscribers", which to me is surprising given the game's age.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/4694-WoW-Stable-at-10-Million-Subscribers

Also, here is what people said back last summer:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/123596/is-the-no-raids-decision-being-revisited
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/121646/do-you-want-progressive-raiding-in-eso/p1

More traditional raids were mentioned last October:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/135385/more-traditional-raids-being-discussed

-Silence-

March 2015:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/de/discussion/156800/most-of-the-end-game-guilds-are-dying-out-now/p1

Thelon · March 2015

Great post. I hope they implement some of your suggestions. I'd love more rare and unique drops from trials, as well as valuable gear from Hardmodes with desirable stats and killer cosmetics.

arqe · March 2015

People did get better playing MMO games. Before World of Wacraft there was only Everquest and it had nothing ( kinda. )
So everything WoW bringed to the table seemed hard. But it is not. Just open yourself a vanilla server and try those 40 man raids. You'll see how easy and *** they were.
So stop comparing MMO's and call the new ones are easy , we just got used to do raids.
Tell me 1 HARDCORE mmo ? How many hours for people to clear new WoW raids even on Hardmodes ? 1 week after guild hit max level. Thats it , 1 week.

If you want HARDCORE MMO go play Eve Online or any other MMO that is sandbox and free loot , spend months and years to build a beastly spaceship and dive into action with it. And when they blow you up to the pieces , you can cry in your corner.

Kadirra · March 2015

What I wish...

I don't care as much about hardcore or raiding. I want quality of life changes, and things to make the game more fun, like:

Player Housing. Decorating homes. Finding decor in drops or chests or people's pockets, or the crown store. Crafting stations optional to install in player housing.
Crafting Storage separate from normal Bank storage, that holds up to 1k items per stack with as many 'slots' as there are crafting items in the game.
Personal storage (not account wide) per character, to store disguises, trophies, etc. in.

These things would greatly enhance my experience, and likely some of it could be lucrative for Zenimax as well (crown store furniture, housing additions, etc.)

ItsGlaive · March 2015

crislevin wrote: »

It seems you have put enormous stress on reward for "hardcore quest". But not everybody is that into those things. Should they never get any of these rewards?

You said yourself, ESO is a vivid virtual life, and people enjoy living it, and not everything in life is leveling, questing and stealing.

I wouldn't consider myself "hardcore" at all, very casual in fact. But I wouldn't begrudge proper rewards for those who do put in that extra effort. Sure, if they've done something "hardcore", something that most couldn't achieve, why not recognise them for it with something special? When did we decide that everyone should get everything, when did we decide not to reward effort?

Kragorn · March 2015

Kildayen wrote: »

Please make it fun for me "us" again.

You seem focused on being 'special' by having exclusive access to things the 'casuals' don't (MY word, your implicit view I'm sure).

The fact you need to post at length about your 'achievements' seems to support this, you're asking for content a trivially small percentage of players will be able to access for any number of reasons, as such I entirely disagree with you.

"I wouldn't consider myself "hardcore" at all, very casual in fact. "

You contradict your entire OP and sorry, you're not remotely casual, 13k achievements don't come to 'casuals' in only 11 months.

Vahrokh · March 2015

The OP does not qualify as "hard core". Maybe "passionate" or "dedicated".

Hard core would have rerolled DK after sorcs got crippled months ago. Today he'd be levelling a Templar. Actually a true hard core player has 1 top geared VR14 character per class since months.

Hard core would be playing an hard core game in addition to ESO, which is Casuals Paradise.

Besides 1 boss in Sanctum, there's no difficult (much less, hard core) content to talk about at all. What exclusive rewards do you want to complete AA? An instance FAR FAR FAR easier than original WoW Stratholme (a small group PUG instance)?

Hard core is something like original Naxxramas or original TBC raids (the first 3 or so weeks of them, before Blizzard - as usual - tones them greatly down to open them to less skilled or dedicated people).

Having Naxxramas full tank gear and show off in the capital town next to the AH? THAT was the prize and people still congratulated you after 3 years.

ESO is as hard core as Hello Kitty Online, what reward do you want.

arqe wrote: »

If you want HARDCORE MMO go play Eve Online or any other MMO that is sandbox and free loot , spend months and years to build a beastly spaceship and dive into action with it. And when they blow you up to the pieces , you can cry in your corner.

I'd say DarkFall online is more hard core than EvE and is more comparable to ESO, as "medieval sword and board".

Project Entropia, in its PVP space realm is more hardcore than EvE.

Also, in EvE you don't buy a spaceship. If you are a dedicated player you build a vast network of allegiances, you lead or join an alliance. You NEVER grind a Titan to go blow it like a dumb, those get moved with tons of support and tactics to avoid them ever dying. Of course this sometimes fails, but in that case no biggie. All of us can re-purchase a minimum of 7-8 titans on a pinch, being hard core in EvE also means knowing how to make insane amounts of ISK.

Messy1 · March 2015

OP, ZOS should have hired someone like you in there alpha phase and they should consult you now.

Vahrokh · March 2015

Messy1 wrote: »

OP, ZOS should have hired someone like you in there alpha phase and they should consult you now.

They had plenty of such feedback since closed beta. They ignored every single of it. Only bug reports were (not always) taken into account. Even then, the 2 main questline blocking bugs I sent later during that time were ignored as well and got stuck on them after release.

Kildayen · March 2015

Kragorn wrote: »

Kildayen wrote: »

Please make it fun for me "us" again.

You seem focused on being 'special' by having exclusive access to things the 'casuals' don't (MY word, your implicit view I'm sure).

The fact you need to post at length about your 'achievements' seems to support this, you're asking for content a trivially small percentage of players will be able to access for any number of reasons, as such I entirely disagree with you.

"I wouldn't consider myself "hardcore" at all, very casual in fact. "

You contradict your entire OP and sorry, you're not remotely casual, 13k achievements don't come to 'casuals' in only 11 months.

I'm sorry, but why are you putting words in my mouth that I never said. Read the bold and then search my posts and tell me where I say what you typed in bold. Thats right, you can't find it because I never said that. Another forum member typed that in their post. Why would I say that my style is hardcore and then contradict myself? lol

And everyone who plays harder than a "casual" should have better or exclusive things. Not just me. And it might be a smaller percentage of players who want these things or who play "hardcore", but there are still plenty of us. I am in 2 guilds that have plenty of people who have not only achieved what I have done, but they have gone further than me. I know of other end-game/hardcore guilds that have fallen apart because their members quit playing the game due to the fact that they feel exactly as I do. No new content. No unique rewards. No special "hardcore" loot for completing the non casual events in the game. Yes, the hardcore might be the minority in this game, but there are still plenty of us around. You can disagree with me because you wouldn't understand. We have completely different play styles which means we have different goals and expectations. I don't judge you or look down on you because you are a casual player. I am happy that the game fulfills your needs. I just wish ZOS had more in store for the "trivially small percentage of players" who are able to devote their time accessing and defeating the events that the casuals don't care about. I guess you can't make everyone happy though, right?

/sigh

byrom101b16_ESO · March 2015

The answer is simple, and as an ex-hardcore player I am unbias in my views on your post, I understand it well enough.

Only approximately 2% of players in mainstream MMOs are Hardcore. It used to be around 7% during vanilla WoW, but it has dropped off considerably.

So in terms of revenues, hardcore players are almost an irrelevance to the bean counters.

Personally I think an MMO should reward hardcore by getting to the best loot faster, and have a few gated cosmetic items that only they can get.

Everyone else, regarrdles of playstyle, should be able to eventually acheive the best gear and advancement, it should just take longer.

There should never be gated content that only hardcore can ever reach, there should never be gated gear that only hardcore can ever reach.

Everyone pays for the same game, and money is king.

However, hardcore should be given Kudos in a visual way, like I said, through things like a few unique visuals, or nominal control of castles or cities as the only people who can sit on the 9 thrones in the Palace.

Something flavourful and distinctive, maybe permanent hero status with vendors for 20% off etc.

But NOT crunchy in terms of combat numbers...

Kildayen · March 2015

Messy1 wrote: »

OP, ZOS should have hired someone like you in there alpha phase and they should consult you now.

I really wish they would listen to subscribers like me. I've invested a lot into this game. I wouldn't feel so strongly about everything if I didn't invest so much... If I didn't care so much. This really is an awesome game. It just wasn't made for the hardcore players, I guess.

Arreyanne · March 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Arreyanne wrote: »

Vertical progression is the problem with most MMO''s, now.

Sure WoW still does it so every other game should as well, right?

Wow has been bleeding subs for the past two to three years, maybe not enough to put a dent in the bottom, it's just simply a fact.

I would rather have some type of leaderboard, fastest clear -weekly-monthly-quarterly

-snip-

Wait, isn't this what ESO tried? Clearly it isn't working, when people got bored, left the game & game went B2P.

Just take a look at Trials forums for a reality check, there's not much enthusiasm there for running the same content over & over again for almost non-existent rewards.

Fastest time? Leaderboards? I honestly don't think most people really care about those.

What matters are the World Firsts, long progression & then actually beating the difficult content.

Not how fast you clear the dungeon, which in itself is a bad design since it promotes creating quick, repeatable content that feels more like a glorified group dungeon, than an epic raid.

Nor is WoW actually "bleeding subscribers", which to me is surprising given the game's age.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/4694-WoW-Stable-at-10-Million-Subscribers

Also, here is what people said back last summer:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/123596/is-the-no-raids-decision-being-revisited
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/121646/do-you-want-progressive-raiding-in-eso/p1

More traditional raids were mentioned last October:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/135385/more-traditional-raids-being-discussed

-Silence-

March 2015:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/de/discussion/156800/most-of-the-end-game-guilds-are-dying-out-now/p1

The following is a quote from Taugrim's Blog, this is what I was trying to get across

""Here are the benefits of horizontal scaling:

There are no brackets due to level or gear score. You can roll a new character and immediately group with other more-experienced characters
It levels the playing field in PVE and PVP. Performing well isn’t about your level or gear score, it’s about your ability to play your character effectively and work in a team
Content (zones, instances, etc) stays relevant forever

Here’s how would progression could work in a horizontal scaling system:

Take achievements to the next level, so that the game tracks performance at a granular level…
– What’s my fastest time-to-clear for this instance (because this instance is never outdated)?
– What’s my fastest TTC for this boss fight?
– What’s my fastest pvp match win ever?…and then have these stats feed into Leaderboards…- Which players / guilds have the fastest TTC for this boss for this week / the past x weeks / all-time?
– Who had the highest DPS on this boss fight this week / month / all-time?

So doing content for competitively-minded players is about excellence in execution, not getting geared up.

Support customization of the character’s look (armor / weapons / clothing) and guild heraldry based on achievements and performance
Have weapons with different capabilities, so that “gearing up” is about building up a collection of weapons that you can use in various situations or to support particular playstyles. So you acquire a Cinderburn staff if you want to buff up your Mage’s DoTs capability, or you acquire an Earthbind staff if you want to buff your Mage’ earth-based CC capability. But you just have to acquire each weapon once. There isn’t a +1 Flaming Sword, +2 Flaming Sword staff, etc – there’s just a Flaming Sword

I believe horizontal scaling would create a much more fun experience for gamers and also provide better ROI on content for game developers"

Prospero_ESO · March 2015

Kildayen wrote: »

Please make it fun for me "us" again.

-Kildayen

I see where you are coming from and i think these are valid points. I am not a big fan of gear progression because this system allows a lot of really cheesy things, plus it separates the player base. But in terms of cool looking gear, rare mounts, special achievements etc. as a reward for hard modes, that would be imo cool to see. Regarding duels, i don´t know, i ´ve never been a fan. In some MMO´s it was annoying to cancel duel requests all the time because some tard started spamming them on everybody like no tomorrow. Maybe something like an arena for 1v1 where you can meet if interested would be better.

SoulSubjugator · March 2015

Gone are the days of actually making a game challenging for a wide array of players. You start near the beginning with Everquest and Ultima online, 2 very different games on opposite sides of the spectrum.

UO had to make a seperate "mirror" world that was safer to draw in more players.

Here's the simple truth which I can sum up in 3 words.

"Lowest Common Denominator"

The games these days are made to placate the lazy, unimaginative people who want the most reward for the least amount of effort. That's why WoW is so popular. the raids are NOT challenging they are merely a progression.

Further proof outside the genre of MMO's if you look at ARPG's like Diablo 3, and the more "hardcore" version of Path of Exile you will see Diablo 3 has far more current users than Path of Exile.

And to help the lazy players the gaming world has stuck to the most unimaginative item system which makes thought on item progression almost pointless. If you look at a game like Asherons call (not 2, but the original) Item progression always had a forward progression because the item system had caps that were raised monthly to allow newer better gear to spawn and it gave players a reason to go out and kill things (the harder the better) (In fact Asherons Call's Item system was THE BEST item system I have ever seen in an MMO, )

Unfortunately "hardcore" gamers are the minority in a big way and we will be the last thought in any game developers line of thought.

(EVE online may be one of the last "hardcore" MMO's out there, but that doesn't help the people who like swinging swords instead of shooting laserz)

In my opinion Ultima Online and Asherons call were the best MMO's the gaming industry created.

Robbmrp · March 2015

Some of the best dungeon runs in WoW dropped rare mounts. That alone would make people want to do dungeons more. Just because they sell some mount skins in the Crown Store doesn't mean they couldn't create a unique one that drops from certain dungeons. They could do the same with Costumes too. There's a lot more that they need to do to this game to make it really fun again. Just adding in a CP system with the Legerdemain skill line isn't enough to keep high level players playing until June. They really need new content now, not 4 months from now.

Strigoimare · March 2015

I've played them all (excepting WoW, curiously). And, I realize now that times have changes, and what made those games popular doesn't cut it anymore. Any 'hardcore' MMO today would have an extremely small fanbase, let alone paying users. And MMOs are, first and foremost, a product. And products need to be profitable.

I liked the hardcore days of Ultima Online. Even playing from South America, and having to develop an almost supernatural ballistics sense to compensate for the ultra crappy connection and ping. Why? Because it was new. Looking back, it was extremely raw, and lacked a lot of activities we take for granted today in the genre.

I also don't have that kind of time anymore. I cannot keep that 2-to-4AM gatecamping routine, waiting long hours for any Russian trying to cross borders on 0.0 sec space on EVE. I have a demanding job, a lovely daughter, and a stressed-out wife to take care of. And, I believe that, just like me, a good chunk of the MMO population has gotten older.

So, here we are. While I do agree that TESO needs more variety, and maybe a dash of randomizing, it's a pleasurable game for our time and age. Hardcore gamers are always getting burned out, consuming games like wildfire and moving towards the new game on the block after a few months. Catering to this population is not wise, from a business point of view.

So, you put your money where your heart is, even if it means playing just a few months of the same MMO before moving on. There's nothing wrong with that.

Bloodfang · March 2015

DDuke wrote: »

gurugeorgey wrote: »

It takes time for an MMO to develop the kind of high-end content that satisfies the hardcore. It even took WoW a few years.

-snip-

WoW had awesome high-end content day-1, not after a few years. What you state here is misleading.
Without this high-end content, it wouldn't have become the successful game it is today.

Molten Core (first clear 5 months after launch, took most guilds over half a year to finish)
Onyxia's Lair (World First 2 months after launch)
(shortly after first guilds cleared MC) Blackwing Lair (2,5 months for World First)

Two of these were in the game since Day-1, the third was released while most people were still working on first two raids.
They also host some of my best gaming experiences to date.

Similar content is what ESO completely lacked at launch and still mostly lacks, and why it isn't the great (and succesfull) game it could be.

Molten core was so bugged for months it wasn't even funny.
Also running all those old raids..they are just not good..

ESO has it's problems in PvE endgame (which is WoWs only strength apart from marketing)..however ESO is already wiping the floor with WoW for the majority of other things..

Sallington · March 2015

More difficult content should have more unique rewards. If you can't or won't put in the effort, then you will miss out on those rewards.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. I used to have hours upon hours a day to raid back in my early 20s. I had all the shiny loot. Now that I don't have the same time to put into games, I understand that I probably won't have access to the best loot. I think that putting in 1/2 the effort and expecting the same rewards is extremely selfish and childish.

Basically, I agree with OP.