Potential grind exploit area (Bithanual)

Govalon · March 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Nothing to see here. I just went down there, and this is what found:

1) Only ONE guy grinding.

2) Mobs don't respawn any faster than normal.

3) Mobs only return 95 XP.... Meh.

There are MUCH better spots for grinding in The Rift and Eastmarch if you are DC.

Thanks for this. Nothing to see over here people, move along. There are more pressing issues to cry over about.

Frawr · March 2015

Op... The game is tagged 'play as you want.'

Some people prefer grinding monsters to grinding quests.

Perhaps concentrate on your own gaming rather than being so quick to draw attention to others'.

Emma_Overload · March 2015

Elridge wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Nothing to see here. I just went down there, and this is what found:

1) Only ONE guy grinding.

2) Mobs don't respawn any faster than normal.

3) Mobs only return 95 XP.... Meh.

There are MUCH better spots for grinding in The Rift and Eastmarch if you are DC.

not all grinding is for xp :P

HOLY [snip], I just checked my inventory! I think you may be right, LOL.

Mods, please delete this thread!

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

DrOrpheus · March 2015

Yeah, i recently did this quest and had to get lucky to get mobs i could pull for it cause 2 vr14's were pulling everything to the center and killing it, preventing easy progression through the quest. I'm fine with people farming for dwemer mats, but please do it in off hours when you aren't preventing people actually leveling up from completing a quest.

Ashigaru · March 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Ashigaru wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Yeah, last time I went there I noticed a couple of players farming the mobs. The spawn quickly, they can be pulled into the middle of the room, they have the potential to drop dwemer scrap, and IIRC they give you normal over-land mob XP rather than the reduced XP that most mobs in delves and dungeons give you.

Edit: of course the problem with grinding in this area is that it interferes with anyone trying to do the quest there. The quest requires you to go after a number of the mobs, and if people are grinding them all, this can be difficult.

Could it be that is why the mobs respawn fast, because it is a questing area.... why do you people even care if others grind, you do your questing and let others do the grinding and stop worrying about it.

I care when others exploit and cheat because it affects everyone.

This isn't grinding. It's cheating.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

kokoandshinb14a_ESO wrote: »

? whats wrong with fast spawning mobs.

It's clearly a bugged spawn. And it enables people to level much faster than the designers intended.

how is it bugged, could it be that the mobs were set to respawn fast BECAUSE it is a quest area. There is NO exploit or CHEAT by killing mobs instead of questing, really if something is bothering you that bad there is a single player ES game that you dont have to worry about little ole grinders killing you mobs.

DeLindsay · March 2015

Man I wish we still had LOL buttons.

Emma_Overload · March 2015

There's NO EXPLOIT here. The mobs behave normally and spawn at normal rates.

The notable thing about this delve is that the Dwemer Scrap drops frequently, I got about 10 pieces in 5 minutes. That's not an exploit, that's just a nice bonus for killing stuff.

UrQuan · March 2015

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Anath_Q wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Ashigaru wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Yeah, last time I went there I noticed a couple of players farming the mobs. The spawn quickly, they can be pulled into the middle of the room, they have the potential to drop dwemer scrap, and IIRC they give you normal over-land mob XP rather than the reduced XP that most mobs in delves and dungeons give you.

Edit: of course the problem with grinding in this area is that it interferes with anyone trying to do the quest there. The quest requires you to go after a number of the mobs, and if people are grinding them all, this can be difficult.

Could it be that is why the mobs respawn fast, because it is a questing area.... why do you people even care if others grind, you do your questing and let others do the grinding and stop worrying about it.

If the grinders are preventing me from getting the mobs that I need to do the quest, then I care. If they aren't, then I really don't care.

It took me 4 days before I found a grinder willing to allow me 2 minutes (the time needed for him to take his bio) to quest through the incessant farming in this spot.

Honestly, if you want to grind your levels, rock on. But, at least extend a little courtesy towards a quester trying to just get through a short quest.

This is false.

There are no quests in the entire game that can be interrupted by a grinder. At worst, the required NPC you have to kill will spawn, and you + grinder hit it. You get credit for the quest objective to proceed with your quest in every case.

If you hate grinding, fine, say so. But don't make stuff up.

This is false.

The specific quest we're talking about here requires you to control a dwemer spider. If the grinders are killing them all before you can control one, then they are preventing you from completing the quest.

If you haven't done all of the quests so you don't know the mechanics of them, fine, say so. But don't falsely accuse people of making stuff up.

This is false.

As soon as the spider takes damage, the "E" action becomes available, and if you click it, you will take control of the spider and it will become non-attackable by the grinder.

If you haven't done all of the quests so you don't know the mechanics of them, fine, say so. But don't make stuff up.

Doesn't help if they're killing them too fast for you to hit "E" after it's tagged.

Sorry, but you're flat-out wrong. It is possible for grinders to prevent questers from completing their quests. I highly doubt it happens often (it would only be happening with a lot of grinders in the area, and that's only realistically going to happen with bots), but saying that it can't happen is a lie, pure and simple.

Not possible.

I went there. I pressed "E". I got control of a spider.

If you are unable to, I would recommend practicing hitting the "E" key more.... o.O

Oh wow, in one specific case you managed to do the quest? Well, that proves it: it's always possible to complete it in every circumstance. Nice try.

[...]

And if grinders are killing all of the mobs before you can get close enough for the E to even show up, or spamming skills on the spawn points so that the mobs insta-die when they spawn (this used to happen a lot with bots - and remember, in this quest hitting E doesn't work if the mob isn't already damaged)? I'm sorry, but you're flat-out wrong. It's entirely possible for grinders to actually prevent a quester from completing a quest. Absolutely nothing you've said (and nothing you can say) has made any difference in that simple fact.

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

Soulshine · March 2015

I remember doing this quest. When I got there the whole place was utterly empty. I knew right away someone was around since no, you cannot make it to that point in the quest without fighting your way there. In a few moments things started respawning and shortly thereafter two players came into the area. I put in chat that I was questing and asked for a minute to grab what I needed and get out of their hair. They said "cool" I got what I needed and moved on.

I have had that happen countless times in this game, be that levels 1-50 or in vet. Actually trying to communicate for two seconds instead of just getting bent that people are not doing what you want them to can go a long way towards everyone having fun and getting what they need. It is not difficult and a if done with genuine courtesy people are very cool about it. I have never once had anyone respond negatively when I have done this. Try it.

QuadroTony · March 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

No one was getting screwed over here. The grinders were not grinding; they were exploiting. They were cheating. And they were whining that they couldn't cheat as effectively because people were actually completing the content in the game.

I simply offer this up as an example of the typical behavior seen in-game.

lol you are so funny and wrong
you made my day

nerevarine1138 · March 2015

Ashigaru wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Ashigaru wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Yeah, last time I went there I noticed a couple of players farming the mobs. The spawn quickly, they can be pulled into the middle of the room, they have the potential to drop dwemer scrap, and IIRC they give you normal over-land mob XP rather than the reduced XP that most mobs in delves and dungeons give you.

Edit: of course the problem with grinding in this area is that it interferes with anyone trying to do the quest there. The quest requires you to go after a number of the mobs, and if people are grinding them all, this can be difficult.

Could it be that is why the mobs respawn fast, because it is a questing area.... why do you people even care if others grind, you do your questing and let others do the grinding and stop worrying about it.

I care when others exploit and cheat because it affects everyone.

This isn't grinding. It's cheating.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

kokoandshinb14a_ESO wrote: »

? whats wrong with fast spawning mobs.

It's clearly a bugged spawn. And it enables people to level much faster than the designers intended.

how is it bugged, could it be that the mobs were set to respawn fast BECAUSE it is a quest area. There is NO exploit or CHEAT by killing mobs instead of questing, really if something is bothering you that bad there is a single player ES game that you dont have to worry about little ole grinders killing you mobs.

If a spawn is bugged (which it's now sounding like this one isn't), then it's an exploit to use that bug to get more XP. And yes, I care about what exploiters and cheaters do, because they lower the quality of the whole community.

QuadroTony · March 2015

except grinders are not cheaters or exploiters

google it

UrQuan · March 2015

QuadroTony wrote: »

except grinders are not cheaters or exploiters

google it

Unless they're taking advantage of a bug... But I don't think there's any bug being taken advantage of here.

nerevarine1138 · March 2015

QuadroTony wrote: »

except grinders are not cheaters or exploiters

google it

Let me try this again.

I have no problem with grinders. I don't understand the motivation behind it, but I don't have a problem with it.

I have a problem with "grinders" who are cheating and exploiting. For example, I had problems with people using the Thief, Scorpion, Bittermaw, etc. grinds. Those weren't grinds, they were exploits of bugged respawn timers. And the people using them were clearly aware of that. Making them cheaters and exploiters.

Two separate groups of people.

Soulshine · March 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

QuadroTony wrote: »

except grinders are not cheaters or exploiters

google it

Let me try this again.

I have no problem with grinders. I don't understand the motivation behind it, but I don't have a problem with it.

I have a problem with "grinders" who are cheating and exploiting. For example, I had problems with people using the Thief, Scorpion, Bittermaw, etc. grinds. Those weren't grinds, they were exploits of bugged respawn timers. And the people using them were clearly aware of that. Making them cheaters and exploiters.

Two separate groups of people.

Then in the future, please replace the word "grinder" with "exploiter" every time you want to discuss what you think is an exploit, since by your own admission it is not correct to label these separate groups of people as one and the same.

o_0 · March 2015

All that will change is the XP given will match other delve mobs. Which will scare everyone off except for people grinding Dwemer scraps, of course they may change that drop rate also de to the increased speed in mob kills.

UrQuan · March 2015

Soulshine wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

QuadroTony wrote: »

except grinders are not cheaters or exploiters

google it

Let me try this again.

I have no problem with grinders. I don't understand the motivation behind it, but I don't have a problem with it.

I have a problem with "grinders" who are cheating and exploiting. For example, I had problems with people using the Thief, Scorpion, Bittermaw, etc. grinds. Those weren't grinds, they were exploits of bugged respawn timers. And the people using them were clearly aware of that. Making them cheaters and exploiters.

Two separate groups of people.

Then in the future, please replace the word "grinder" with "exploiter" every time you want to discuss what you think is an exploit, since by your own admission it is not correct to label these separate groups of people as one and the same.

But... he did didn't he? I thought he made it pretty clear that he was explicitly saying that he had a problem with people exploiting a bug, and that those were the people he was calling cheaters, not that he was calling grinders cheaters. Maybe I missed a post that implied otherwise.

nerevarine1138 · March 2015

Soulshine wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

QuadroTony wrote: »

except grinders are not cheaters or exploiters

google it

Let me try this again.

I have no problem with grinders. I don't understand the motivation behind it, but I don't have a problem with it.

I have a problem with "grinders" who are cheating and exploiting. For example, I had problems with people using the Thief, Scorpion, Bittermaw, etc. grinds. Those weren't grinds, they were exploits of bugged respawn timers. And the people using them were clearly aware of that. Making them cheaters and exploiters.

Two separate groups of people.

Then in the future, please replace the word "grinder" with "exploiter" every time you want to discuss what you think is an exploit, since by your own admission it is not correct to label these separate groups of people as one and the same.

I have done so in all my posts.

TequilaFire · March 2015

I know one thing, people are too quick to throw the word exploit out there without proof.

Running around aggroing the mobs to chase you to a central point and then using aoe to kill them is
not exploiting, it is technique.

That is the reason so many mobs are in one place in that screenshot, not abnormal spawning in that shot.

I always notice if someone is questing and pause to let them finish and go back to farming after in those situations.

Yes there are a few bad apples, but that's life.

Psychobunni · March 2015

Well can see this thread is Mod'd, so pass along this as feedback. This argument is never going away, no matter how long, slow, repetitive, and boring Devs try to make the game. There will always be players who want a straight shot from A to Z without all the points in between. Always. A smart game developer would explore options that cater to Dora the Explorer who takes a year to hit V1 while also catering to those who don't have the time or want to spend a year.

All this players find a good spot, other players QQ, Zos nerfs, players QQ.....just creates a big circle of division within your community. Be smarter than the grind finders, or embrace it and make $$ off it.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grinding_%28video_gaming%29

Soulshine · March 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

QuadroTony wrote: »

except grinders are not cheaters or exploiters

google it

Let me try this again.

I have no problem with grinders. I don't understand the motivation behind it, but I don't have a problem with it.

I have a problem with "grinders" who are cheating and exploiting. For example, I had problems with people using the Thief, Scorpion, Bittermaw, etc. grinds. Those weren't grinds, they were exploits of bugged respawn timers. And the people using them were clearly aware of that. Making them cheaters and exploiters.

Two separate groups of people.

Then in the future, please replace the word "grinder" with "exploiter" every time you want to discuss what you think is an exploit, since by your own admission it is not correct to label these separate groups of people as one and the same.

I have done so in all my posts.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1644444/#Comment_1644444

No one was getting screwed over here. The grinders were not grinding; they were exploiting. They were cheating. And they were whining that they couldn't cheat as effectively because people were actually completing the content in the game.

I simply offer this up as an example of the typical behavior seen in-game.

As you know perfectly well by now, the second you start generalizing in this manner someone will get bent. JUst say exploiter and be done with it, if that is your view. Much easier than throwing out the above.

TequilaFire · March 2015

How else do you kill the required 1000 Dewmer contructs for the achievement?
They don't exactly run around all over the place except for player's Dwemer spheres.
Hey now there is an idea, make those able to be killed! lol

Morshire · March 2015

Damn it man - where the F**K is the ROTFLMFAO button when you need one? "Exploiters", "cheaters", etc. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....

I don't even know what to say to that. Who the fudge packers makes up the rules around here? If I am killing mobs that continuously respawn right in front of my face, and get all sorts of stuff for doing it. BUT it happens too fast for some people's taste, I become a cheater? I didn't hack the system. I didn't design the game. I don't control the XP gains. I don't control the loot table. I log into the game. I kill things that spawn. I collect the rewards. I gain the levels. I earn the gold from selling said loot. Same thing everybody else is doing in the game. How does that make me a "cheater"? IF the devs did not intend for this to happen, then why is it in the game? At best, you could call me an opportunist. Could even call me lazy for taking the easy road. "Exploiting" is only bad based on context. No official rules have been broken, or I'd be banned from the game. So, again I ask, "Where the F**K is my LOL button?"

UrQuan · March 2015

Psychobunni wrote: »

Well can see this thread is Mod'd, so pass along this as feedback. This argument is never going away, no matter how long, slow, repetitive, and boring Devs try to make the game. There will always be players who want a straight shot from A to Z without all the points in between. Always. A smart game developer would explore options that cater to Dora the Explorer who takes a year to hit V1 while also catering to those who don't have the time or want to spend a year.

All this players find a good spot, other players QQ, Zos nerfs, players QQ.....just creates a big circle of division within your community. Be smarter than the grind finders, or embrace it and make $$ off it.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grinding_%28video_gaming%29

That's exactly what I keep on talking about... I don't want to grind, because I hate it. There are always going to be people who want to grind, though, so give them places to do it where they won't interfere with questers and vice versa.

Jaxsun · March 2015

In before closed for talking about exploits.

RealRobD · March 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

QuadroTony wrote: »

except grinders are not cheaters or exploiters

google it

Let me try this again.

I have no problem with grinders. I don't understand the motivation behind it, but I don't have a problem with it.

I'll help you understand.
Everything in this game gives pathetic XP. Grinding, even though ZOS ruined that, gives a little better XP, but not by much.

I even pay a sub for the +10% XP but I think that's over because it's simply not enough. If they want me to beat my face against this huge XP wall I see no reason to give them my money.

At this point I'd rather give Blizzard my $15 and then just freeload on this game.

Lionxoft · March 2015

@nerevarine1138 How exactly is it cheating? If he's using an automated script to kill the monsters for him then sure that would be cheating but if he/she's doing the actual slaying then how is it cheating? Are you saying that anyone that does repeatable slaying is cheating? What about quests?

If your concern lies with the champion system xp gain then at the highest, this is a vr7 zone meaning past a certain point the grind starts granting diminished returns per monster. In the picture it's a vr2 zone which means the DR starts occurring sooner. If interfering with the quest is what you have issue with then that isn't considered "Cheating" that is considered being a jerk. lol Huge difference.

There's another grind spot in the game that the devs should be more concerned with if xp grinding is a priority for them instead of this one. This is actually not a very efficient grind at all since they aren't undead and at max lv they yield hardly any xp.

@Dekkameron
Chances are the person is just farming dwemer scraps. It is indeed one of the best places to farm for them or maybe they want the slayer achievement for slaying automatons?

xMovingTarget · March 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Ashigaru wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Yeah, last time I went there I noticed a couple of players farming the mobs. The spawn quickly, they can be pulled into the middle of the room, they have the potential to drop dwemer scrap, and IIRC they give you normal over-land mob XP rather than the reduced XP that most mobs in delves and dungeons give you.

Edit: of course the problem with grinding in this area is that it interferes with anyone trying to do the quest there. The quest requires you to go after a number of the mobs, and if people are grinding them all, this can be difficult.

Could it be that is why the mobs respawn fast, because it is a questing area.... why do you people even care if others grind, you do your questing and let others do the grinding and stop worrying about it.

I care when others exploit and cheat because it affects everyone.

This isn't grinding. It's cheating.

Will you ever stop ?

nerevarine1138 · March 2015

Lionxoft wrote: »

@nerevarine1138 How exactly is it cheating? If he's using an automated script to kill the monsters for him then sure that would be cheating but if he/she's doing the actual slaying then how is it cheating? Are you saying that anyone that does repeatable slaying is cheating? What about quests?

If your concern lies with the champion system xp gain then at the highest, this is a vr7 zone meaning past a certain point the grind starts granting diminished returns per monster. In the picture it's a vr2 zone which means the DR starts occurring sooner. If interfering with the quest is what you have issue with then that isn't considered "Cheating" that is considered being a jerk. lol Huge difference.

There's another grind spot in the game that the devs should be more concerned with if xp grinding is a priority for them instead of this one. This is actually not a very efficient grind at all since they aren't undead and at max lv they yield hardly any xp.

@Dekkameron
Chances are the person is just farming dwemer scraps. It is indeed one of the best places to farm for them or maybe they want the slayer achievement for slaying automatons?

It's cheating (again, it seems like this is not the case with this particular grind, but the OP led me to believe it was) when you exploit a bugged spawn in order to gain more XP than is clearly intended.

I do have an issue with it interfering with questing, but that's a separate problem. My main issue with so many of the optimal grind spots in the game is that many (if not most) of them turn out to be exploits (for reference, see every single-boss Craglorn grind that was fixed).

Dekkameron · March 2015

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

@nerevarine1138 How exactly is it cheating? If he's using an automated script to kill the monsters for him then sure that would be cheating but if he/she's doing the actual slaying then how is it cheating? Are you saying that anyone that does repeatable slaying is cheating? What about quests?

If your concern lies with the champion system xp gain then at the highest, this is a vr7 zone meaning past a certain point the grind starts granting diminished returns per monster. In the picture it's a vr2 zone which means the DR starts occurring sooner. If interfering with the quest is what you have issue with then that isn't considered "Cheating" that is considered being a jerk. lol Huge difference.

There's another grind spot in the game that the devs should be more concerned with if xp grinding is a priority for them instead of this one. This is actually not a very efficient grind at all since they aren't undead and at max lv they yield hardly any xp.

@Dekkameron
Chances are the person is just farming dwemer scraps. It is indeed one of the best places to farm for them or maybe they want the slayer achievement for slaying automatons?

It's cheating (again, it seems like this is not the case with this particular grind, but the OP led me to believe it was) when you exploit a bugged spawn in order to gain more XP than is clearly intended.

I do have an issue with it interfering with questing, but that's a separate problem. My main issue with so many of the optimal grind spots in the game is that many (if not most) of them turn out to be exploits (for reference, see every single-boss Craglorn grind that was fixed).

I never said that i thought the players killing the mobs were themselves exploiting, but the speed at which the mobs spawns seemed a little out of whack

EDIT:

When i first did this quest in April last year, i remember many people complaining that the dwemer spiders spawned too slowly and indeed there was often a fair few people running around trying to tag them to complete the quest. Perhaps they upped the spawn rate to help questers but did not change it back to normal once the initial low level grind rush had ended.