Serious Plea for CP fix

DeathDealer19 · March 2015

I started a thread back on the pts when 1.6 was launched there, and have seen a million since but heres another.

I am a very devoted, and hardcore player of ESO. I have 5 VR14 characters and love the game. I have been here since the quote unquote beta. (even though lets be honest, this last year has been a paid beta.) I have done everything in the game. Grinding, Questing all the way through cadwells gold multiple times, ive done all PVE content in the game including hard modes, Ive pvp'd enough to reign as emperor, etc. I have over 6 million gold, master crafter, etc. I know ESO. I love ESO.

I initially posted on the pts forums when 1.6 was launched after testing the new CP system. The biggest and most important issue is 400k XP for 1 CP is just ridiculous. Im talking first about a player with NO enlightenment.

The average quest available to a vr14 character rewards about 4000 XP. So in order to quest to get 1 CP, youre looking at around 100 quests to even come close to a CP. For a vr14, where can you find 100 quests? Ive done all the story quests on 2 different characters that i play. daily and repeatable hubs don't come close and not to mention 100 quests a day isn't possible unless you 24 hour no life it.

Even though I hate grinding, lets take a look at that. Due to ZOS hating everyone, the most XP per mob ive seen anywhere in this game is about 300-400 XP per mob. Grinding just isn't an option. Again, youd have to sit there and do it for 24 hours straight if you could find something. At this point, my opinion on grinding is, we have to. Most of us devoted players have done all or most of the content in the game so what else is there for us? We haven't gotten new content in over 6 months. Yet everytime we find a grind that gives us respectable numbers, it gets nerfed.

Lets quickly look at vr dungeons and trials. I have completed Sanctum Ophidia and Veteran DSA multiple times since 1.6 went live. Sanctum gives about 3-5% of a CP for clearing the ENTIRE trial. This is the hardest pve content in the game and takes some skill and motivation to complete and were basically slapped in the face for doing so. The gear is now worthless (like 95% of the item sets in this game.......) and we cant even get worthwhile XP for completing the hardest content in the game. Vet DSA is a little more XP for the whole trial, but its still nearly worthless with no enlightenment. VR dungeons are the same. For the time and effort put in, the xp gain is laughable and an insult.

So I ask again, What are our options? Enlightenment right now is BROKEN, and even if youre lucky enough to get it to work, you get a laughable 1 CP worth of it per day. So basically were limited to 1 single CP per day. 2 if youre really lucky and play A TON. At 2 CP per day someone did the math and it would take like 4-5 years to max CP. I don't need all 3600 CP but id like to eventually get at least halfway lol. 4-5 years....

So again, I ask ZOS to please address this. Either vamp up the XP gain in this game, or reduce the amount needed for 1 CP. With current XP gain per mob, quest, trial, etc, this should be lowered to like 100,000 XP at the MOST. We were told that we should expect to get about 1 CP per hour of reasonable gameplay and without enlightenment, that's just NOT possible. Even with enlightenment its a stretch to get 1 in an hour. I got 0 feedback from ZOS on my thread back during the PTS and I have no clue what is being addressed in todays patch since ZOS doesn't give us patch notes until its live...... But I would REALLY love some feedback from ZOS on this thread. And please, other players share your opinions as well. I mean we were all nerfed in 1.6 and forced to relearn and rely on CP to do old content. Yet were barely able to get any CP at all.

Thanks for reading and please keep things constructive and have a great day
~Death~

runagate · March 2015

Here's an incredibly simple way of looking at it: if you put in all the work to get to VR 14 the reward is having your ability to obtain new CP completely and totally stymied, as there is no in-game activity to acquire XP the way a below-VR 10 character can perform simply by doing available quests.

At this level you've already completed quests, dolmens, world bosses, delves, etc. and the only thing left is group activities. One cannot force others to perform those at your whim, so even those things (which grant vastly less xp than the sub-VR 10 characters can obtain over a period of time) so that's another inherent brake on CP gain rate.

I am in two very active guilds of all endgame players who do Trials, including Sanctum, which obviously give a minuscule amount of xp for the time and effort and organization put into them (not to mention resources, come to think of it).

I can't even recall the last time someone suggested doing Craglorn quests (none of my four endgame characters have ever completed even the main quest lines) nor agreed to do them when I suggested it.

Kuro1n · March 2015

I usually get a CP in 30 minutes with enlightenment and 2h without. Not grinding it or anything at all actually since I don't have time and I am sitting at 93 currently.

DeathDealer19 · March 2015

runagate wrote: »

Here's an incredibly simple way of looking at it: if you put in all the work to get to VR 14 the reward is having your ability to obtain new CP completely and totally stymied, as there is no in-game activity to acquire XP the way a below-VR 10 character can perform simply by doing available quests.

At this level you've already completed quests, dolmens, world bosses, delves, etc. and the only thing left is group activities. One cannot force others to perform those at your whim, so even those things (which grant vastly less xp than the sub-VR 10 characters can obtain over a period of time) so that's another inherent brake on CP gain rate.

I am in two very active guilds of all endgame players who do Trials, including Sanctum, which obviously give a minuscule amount of xp for the time and effort and organization put into them (not to mention resources, come to think of it).

I can't even recall the last time someone suggested doing Craglorn quests (none of my four endgame characters have ever completed even the main quest lines) nor agreed to do them when I suggested it.

Thank you and I agree 100%

I have done the craglorn quests recently. Both the story lines and the repeatable ones. Without enlightenment, theres simply no point and its a waste of time. Sit there and do a 20-30 min quest for 4k XP? lol really?

IcyDeadPeople · March 2015

Certainly a long grind, but it's still possible to earn around 4 points per day in PVE (~1.2m unenlightened, plus 100k while enlightened).

If we could earn XP in Cyrodiil at a reasonable rate in line with PVE experience, I imagine many of us would simply play the game and enjoy ourselves without worrying about grinding enough CP to remain competitive.

DeathDealer19 wrote: »

At 2 CP per day someone did the math and it would take like 4-5 years to max CP.

You mean 3600/2?

.

Grunim · March 2015

Kuro1n wrote: »

I usually get a CP in 30 minutes with enlightenment and 2h without. Not grinding it or anything at all actually since I don't have time and I am sitting at 93 currently.

May I ask what level is this character that earns this and what activities yield this?

AlnilamE · March 2015

Honestly, I'm fine with the system the way it is (as long as Enlightenment is working as it should for all players).

Since I first became Enlightened after 1.6, I have not yet been able to gain enough XP to run out. After the first few days when I was still working on getting my templar to V1, I have tried to focus on getting 1CP a day on one of my characters before I go off and do other stuff (crafting writs, dungeons, gathering etc).

It's not easy. This weekend I was going to quest until I ran out of enlightenment, but unfortunately, my computer had a bad crash on Saturday and I spent the afternoon/evening reinstalling and redownloading everything. So I got 2CP on Saturday morning and 2CP on Sunday by having my Templar work through her quest achievements in Cyrodiil.

I know that some people are obsessing about having X number of CP as quickly as possible, but that's not how the system was designed. It's supposed to take a lot of time. So if you run out of enlightenment, go do stuff that you like doing that doesn't give you a lot of XP.

That being said, I agree that completions of group dungeons and daily quests should yield a bit more XP than they do right now. For the group dungeons, maybe up the XP for the Pledge completion (based on key level, perhaps). And for Trials, maybe have the weekly quest give you more XP than it does now?

But I think the 100k enlightened/400k normal is a good number otherwise.

Erock25 · March 2015

I'm pretty sure I get around 30k XP from completing quests in the VR2 zone.

Scotia · March 2015

Dungeons need more exp, add more repeatable quests, no to reducing exp reqd for CP

runagate · March 2015

Of course it's perfectly possible to earn 1m xp per day.. grinding, which I loathe and never did for any of my characters to level them. I've done it for four characters every day since enlightenment actually started working on my account. For those without solely endgame characters this complaint will make no sense as you have plenty of quests to do.

At endgame, we not only have nearly nothing to do but now must grind to get CP, as the only way to stay competitive for the group-only activities we have left to do, Sanctum and PvP.

Make no mistake both of these things now require extremely boring - not game-like fun - work to stay competitive for, what, the next 2 years!? My account has 90 CP at the moment as I absolutely refuse to grind non-enlightened xp for CP. I may eventually break down and do it as others more diligent force my hand and out-compete for places in the group-only activities left to do at endgame.

Is this a successful recipe in your mind? This is pertinent only to endgame characters, please don't say "my VR 1 DK gets 1 CP in 30 minutes" as clearly this part of the CP system works just fine.

What are we supposed to do, delete characters and re-level them to level 50 so that they stand ready to earn us CP? I've done that 5 times already (albeit once in beta).

DeathDealer19 · March 2015

For people casually playing low level vr toons, yes it is enough for you. If you havent run out of enlightenment, you simply dont play much at all lol. 1 CP maybe 2 if I'm really lucky per day is not enough. I dont plan to invest 5 years in an unproven game. For max level players with no content to play, were basically screwed. I have to do vet dsa 5 times a day to get 2 cp lol. This post is more for max level people like myself who have leveled 4+ toons and don't have quests or leveling left to do. 1.6 was a massive nerf to us. We need the cp to get back to the levels where we were at before 1.6.

DisgracefulMind · March 2015

I got 2 CPs the other day, was super excited. I only PvP, I HATE PVE, let me put that out there: I HATE PVE. Typically I can get my enlightenment point and half a regular CP in PvP a day and that's it. They really need to adjust xp gain. It's ridiculous.

Kartalin · March 2015

I think a lot of people miss the functionality of the champion system. Having more points leads to diminishing returns, and if you look at some of these passives, you know there are some you just don't need to have. As a stamina build, do I need 100 points in magicka regen? No, but at the same time I wouldn't be averse to having it. The fact is, after you get 120 points in each of the 9 constellations, you get all of the unlockable passives and you probably have all the points needed to get most of the benefits from those constellations already. Even if you go 30 points in each you're probably fine.

What bothers me is that people see this as a race to get to 3600, a race that I don't think they can win. Having 1080 is going to be about as effective and make you pretty darned powerful. But even so if we think of it as a race, people are just going to burn themselves out. Grind your way to 90 CP and get back to enjoying the game again, I think a lot of people are looking at it like that and it's a more reasonable point of view. If you happen to get a champion point along the way, that's great, but the whole system is not one that's meant to be maxed out. If you have that mindset here I think you're going to find that the game just becomes a job.

runagate · March 2015

OK, so here's another person who doesn't understand the limited options of endgame chiming in. I, too, do not wish to play a game that's viewed as a race to 3600 CP.

Nevertheless, there simply isn't anything else to do that isn't a group activity, and I assure you that there's not a lot of people who get invited to do the Serpent Trial. Did you see the Sanctum leaderboards last week? Not a lot of people on it, not even the people that were on it before the 1.6 patch, and even that is a tiny proportion of the population.

But I assure you that there are people who will either mindlessly grind or even exploit their way to the top, and those people are the ones who will get to participate in the diminishing number of things there are to do. Have you done Sanctum? I presume not as you have listed Alliance Rank 17 in your sig, and there's no a lot of overlap in PvE and PvP. I got to AR 20 6 months ago and stopped PvPing when Thorn turned into unplayable lag and exploiting and go back occasionally but not like I used to log in their daily and never even left Cyrodiil. Instead, I played 3 other characters to endgame and got most of the endgame loot and achievements and such that were added. Even had time in between to get to 13 Legerdemain recently.

And then what? Without senselessly grinding senche tigers of all things, these opportunities will dry up to those who have others log in and grind for them almost 24/7, like some used to do when trying to maintain emperor on buff servers.

Wouldn't it be preferable to have a mechanism whereby endgame players could receive CP while doing something at least mildly interesting? I don't want to have to get a crazy amount of CP right away - this is not a "gimme it now" complaint - but the fact is that a situation has been set up whereby what little there is to do will be gradually eroded by those who grind.

And I'm not exactly averse to putting in the effort - I've done every single quest in this game (Explorer and Tamriel Hero achievement ages ago) and most of them multiple times.

Hutuldur · March 2015

Current system works well. Casuals gets CPs in decent rate and you still get something extra if you play more.

I don't think OP should get 1000 CPs in one month like he wishes to.

Ashigaru · March 2015

I figured out its easier to get CP's on my vr1 alt then it is on my vr10, so i spend about an hour and half a day in cold harbor and get 5 cp and log her off. Way easier to get xp for the vr1 then the vr10 so iam looking more at cp then i am at actually lvling her. Works so far anyway

Vizier · March 2015

I'm not so sure your calculation are correct. I'm not even trying and spending alot of time in PvP and getting 1-2 CP a day. No way am I doing the equivalent to 100 plus quests a day. I know some of the side quests are pathetic for xp gain but others give quite a bit.30-40k (for my V14.) I understand your concern but I'm just not having the same experience as you.

Still I'd like to gain points faster than I am but that's just my Min-Max nature rearing it's head.

redspecter23 · March 2015

The issue isn't that 400k is too high a total. It's that a V14 has so few options on places to earn that total. I have 3 V1 toons set up that I'll be earning my daily CP on. No, I don't think that's a solution. I think that the ESO team made a few key mistakes that led to the situation we have now.

1. Raising the Vet level cap without providing enough content to justify it. We should have stayed at V10 cap and added CONTENT before LEVELS. Although it's possible ZOS didn't know about B2P or the champion system at the time, they really should have noted an extreme lack of content that certainly didn't justify 4 vet level increases since launch. We have 10 zones for the first 10 vet levels then 1.5 zones for the last 4 and it's group content which is fine, but if you don't have the time or inclination for a group, you will feel left out.

2. Removing many grind spots, and removing incentive from instanced grinds and content forcing players into a few very specific locations to maximize their CP/min. True not everyone cares about this, but if you're looking to earn your daily CP at a decent rate, you'll be funnelled into a very small amount of content and there will be competition from other players in the same spots. V1 characters have tons of options, making leveling up through the vet ranks a detriment to your CP acquisition. I know that every level I gain on my Vet 1 will actually lower my ability to gain CP. Gaining levels should NEVER be a negative experience.

3. The slow removal of the vet rank system. Right now my character advancement consists of gaining CP. My Vet 14 can't do it nearly as efficiently as my V1's can. I may be better off when the vet levels are removed. I don't know enough about what they have planned yet. I know that my V14 gets penalties when trying to earn CP in the same areas that my V1 can. The removal of the vet levels should have been a priority and done alongside the champion system. We've only seeing part of the vision right now and the system is half complete.

4. Lack of scalable content. The new areas coming "soon" should help here but for now, once you outlevel content you're done with it. The daily quests in Cyrodiil are ok, but only scale up to V5. Why can't the mobs scale up to V14 in most campaigns and lv 50 in the non vet campaign? That would boost the PVE xp gain there a bit. Dungeon scaling is also nice and expands that content but I don't think too many people would say dungeons and vet dungeons are a good source of xp/min for the majority of the player population. We need high level content for high level players to do on a daily basis.

Vanzen · March 2015

1.5 cp day at vr14, its the most you can get by playing the game normaly. I mean by not impersonating a hamster in a wheel ...
30 minutes enlighted to get 1cp.
Then 3 hours pvp and both undaunted pledges will get you the 0.5. In no way casual gaming but no harcore either.
Is it fast and fair enough ? Certainly not.
0.5 cp for 4/5h of gaming is not what was advertised ! It was supposed to be 1cp/hour .

c0rp · March 2015

Fret not...XP potions are coming. 500 crowns please.

AlnilamE · March 2015

DeathDealer19 wrote: »

For people casually playing low level vr toons, yes it is enough for you. If you havent run out of enlightenment, you simply dont play much at all lol. 1 CP maybe 2 if I'm really lucky per day is not enough. I dont plan to invest 5 years in an unproven game. For max level players with no content to play, were basically screwed. I have to do vet dsa 5 times a day to get 2 cp lol. This post is more for max level people like myself who have leveled 4+ toons and don't have quests or leveling left to do. 1.6 was a massive nerf to us. We need the cp to get back to the levels where we were at before 1.6.

Or maybe we don't prioritize gaining CP over having fun? I'm afraid to check my /played time on my toons. I spend way too much time in ESO.

I understand the pressure coming from the end-game folks to earn X number of CP and put them into Y stars so you can get certain passives. Which is why I try to get 1 CP a day before I go do something else, like thieving or working on fishing achievements or pledges or running around aimlessly with guildies.

I totally agree that end-game content should give you enough XP that the measure of 1 CP per hour when enlightened applies. I know ZOS said they were looking into XP gained from Vet dungeons, so I hope they increase that soon. And the Craglorn dailies should give a fair amount of XP as well (again, at the ratio of 1 CP per hour while enlightened). Though it brings up the question of who the measure should be? The folks who can clear trials in 15 minutes (and could therefore clear AA, HRC and Sanctum in an hour or so), so completing those three trials would give you 100k combined? Or people who struggle and barely get to the end of AA? It is a bit of a balancing act on the part of ZOS.

And let me say that additionnal quests or other content that max level players can do would be most welcome, even if I have not yet finished all the quests on even my main character.

runagate · March 2015

AlnilamE wrote: »

I have not yet finished all the quests on even my main character.

seanvwolf · March 2015

Vanzen wrote: »

0.5 cp for 4/5h of gaming is not what was advertised ! It was supposed to be 1cp/hour .

1 cp an hour while enlightened. 1 cp every 4 hours unenlightened. It's working as advertised. I am a v14 and yes I grind my 2 cp a day (when I can and enlightenment is working properly). This involves about a 4 hour commitment. Granted, I'd rather have other activities give me more experience for the time invested, but as for CP gain, it can be achieved. And if you are only interested in getting 1 CP a day, then an hour is sufficient to grind out and do the rest of your normal preferred content with the rest of your time.

crowfl56 · March 2015

OK sorry but I have to say this,>>>>>>>>>

Slow down OP

Enjoy your time in game, you and the rest of the speed to level, in anyway you can, grind (aka exploit) quest on certain quests and dungeons.

Just stop complaining about xp per anything.

Chill

please

Kartalin · March 2015

Ideally, here's what might have worked best. At one point I suspect it's what was intended:

Getting rid of veteran ranks and making 50 the top level would solve a number of problems. One, you could reach top level without leaving your faction areas. And two, Cadwell's Silver and Gold quests would be optional but also an ideal platform for earning CPs. Or people could quest in Craglorn, run trials, and pvp as they're already max level and could choose what they want to do from there.

But the toothpaste is already out of the tube. Lots of players, the most dedicated ones, have already grinded multiple characters to VR 14. The Cadwell's content may still be there, but because of level differential it's not as effective. It may be too late to change over from the veteran rank system, too many players have invested a lot in it.

Alternative conspiracy theory: vet levels are removed in 2.0.1 today and all that I just said becomes true.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · March 2015

get it through your head, CP is NOT designed to get to the end of the rainbow for your 3600 cp pot of gold. it simply is not. I really dont understand why people are so obsessed with it being completed. if you can do all the content easily with 100 cp, what do you need thousands of cp for??????
the game is not balanced for a ton of CP, anyone who actually tested lots of cp understands its completely gamebreaking for the current content and we dont need lots of cp untill new content is out.
stop asking for fast cp so you can get all of your cp and have no more progression while you play, its just silly, go back to pts put on 2000-3600 cp do some testing, and realize why you need to shut the hell up about faster cp gain.

ElliottXO · March 2015

It should be 4 CP for 1 hour of being enlightenment and 1 CP per hour without. Add a cap of 10 CP per day.

What is the worst that is going to happen? Somebody will max out in one year? If ZOS needs one friggin year to come up with new content then it's already over anyway.

Kartalin · March 2015

But it's not meant to be finished in a year, it's Tamriel Unlimited. As in endless.

ElliottXO · March 2015

milthalas wrote: »

But it's not meant to be finished in a year, it's Tamriel Unlimited. As in endless.

Add 3 new trees? You think they can't do that within a year? Then it's certainly over.

Naor_Sarethi · March 2015

It'll always come down to the simple lack of fun things to do on a daily basis that will get you CP xp and rewards.
Cadwell's S&G are the first stage in laziness "we don't need to make veteran content if we already have 2 factions done, let's just transfer everyone there and bugger the logic by saying "it's an illusion"". well done.
And afterwards it's even more dire since you've already spent time and patience grinding through an illogical "endcontent". For a game that is so viciously anti-grind, i find myself grinding a bit too much.

Kartalin · March 2015

ElliottXO wrote: »

milthalas wrote: »

But it's not meant to be finished in a year, it's Tamriel Unlimited. As in endless.

Add 3 new trees? You think they can't do that within a year? Then it's certainly over.

I was referring to CPs