The Worst Nerf in ESO

Zershar_Vemod · March 2015

I stopped at the first line.

Leveling in VR has been much easier the past months than the first implementation. Do every quest, discover everything, kill everything along the way. I made VR 14 before Craglorn like multiple other players.

Valnas · March 2015

Jamersonb16_ESO wrote: »

It's our fault, not the devs.

stop drinking the zos kool aid. We're paying to play a game and isntead of content, they created incremental bars in the existing jungle gym, and made the prize pool more exclusive but the same stuff, just slightly less effective because it's the only way they can keep us occupied/paying in lieu of real progression/encounters/zones.

zward887_ESO · March 2015

I just finished Cadwell's Gold last week and I am halfway through VR12. I've pretty much hit a brick wall with levelling. Craglorn has been nerfed into the ground and the Rift is overrun with grinders, because Craglorn was nerfed into the ground.

I don't really know what to do next and its really disappointing. I took it real casual over this last year and patiently waited for them to fix endgame so I would have something to do a fairly easy time getting there when I was ready to make the VR14 push and now it seems like there is nothing left.

I am really disappointed in this game

Niliu · March 2015

Seriously? I've had no trouble leveling up in VR zones, and I didn't start until after the nerf on my latest character. I'm usually VR1 when I start Silver, hit VR2 by the end of the first zone, and level once a zone. Seeing how the zones only go up by one VR level too, I'm pretty much staying right at or slightly above where I need to be for the zone. Maybe it's because I actually play the game, i.e. do the quests, rather than run around "grinding" like a tool. There's no need to grind in this game.

Maidenname · March 2015

Delsskia wrote: »

I can only speak for myself, but the best way I've found to level is a quest/grind combo. As I was leveling, I rarely used my mount. Rather, I ran everywhere and killed everything between my starting point and destination as I quested through zones. All the extra kills gave me a ton of additional xp as well as gold from vendor trash, items to deconstruct or sell and, combined with the quests, always kept me at least 1 level ahead of the zone I was in.

Some days I didn't feel like questing and just ground out giants, trolls or whatever for the achievements.

All that said, once you've done every quest in every zone on one toon, it can get mind numbingly boring to do it again on subsequent toons. And completing Cadwell's Gold is immensely anticlimactic.

And it makes you feel....like....this....
http://youtu.be/iJ9wNT21c_s

wOOOOt_of_SD · March 2015

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

I stopped at the first line.

Leveling in VR has been much easier the past months than the first implementation. Do every quest, discover everything, kill everything along the way. I made VR 14 before Craglorn like multiple other players.

That is the problem in an nutshell mate - YOU HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING!
You are forced to do every quest, every dungeon etc.. There is no viable alternative to xp.
You must do all silver and gold, or you can pvp and Progress at about 1/5 the speed of questing which is slow enough.

Zershar_Vemod · March 2015

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

I stopped at the first line.

Leveling in VR has been much easier the past months than the first implementation. Do every quest, discover everything, kill everything along the way. I made VR 14 before Craglorn like multiple other players.

That is the problem in an nutshell mate - YOU HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING!
You are forced to do every quest, every dungeon etc.. There is no viable alternative to xp.
You must do all silver and gold, or you can pvp and Progress at about 1/5 the speed of questing which is slow enough.

Boohoo?

God forbid you actually play parts of the game. I did everything because that's what I wanted to do and I had fun doing it.

Those who are too lazy will see the results of their inactions. One can make a choice to bum out in zones and only do a bare minimal to progress, but yeah, all choices have consequences.

Got to love the "I WANT IT NOW!!!!" generation.

Arreyanne · March 2015

Valnas wrote: »

Froggmann5 wrote: »

God forbid that Zenimax wants their game to have LONGEVITY.

Most of you seem to forget that a lot of games used to release actual playable dontent to acheive this. Instead of a entirely vertical progression (lvls, champion points, b2win) you add slightly more challenging content that utilizes the existing progression. You can't just lop on new super hero powers, you upgrade/alter/trade what you've got. More options instead of bigger hammers.

You don't need to redo 4 classes and core combat mechanics to release say, 3 raiding zones and an overland area for us all to quest in. Add the imperial city that's been rumored for a year so pvp'ers aren't stuck on a static map that is basically getting unplayable.

Yes it is a shame that developers always make the games taller vs wider.

I_killed_Vivec · March 2015

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

derpsticks wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, how long does everyone in this thread think leveling to VR14 should take? I'm talking in terms of time /played.

What about maxing your alliance war rank?

I can only answer for myself, but 1-50 took me exactly 3 days played. Thats 72 hours, wich for me is exactly what it should take in an mmo to get from 1 to max level.

Now ESO has Silver and Gold Veteran system, which in my Humble opinion should be purely optional, but still rewarding.
A reasonable playthrough here would be another 72 hours. But players should have a free option to gain those xp i other ways, like pvp, dungeon runs and mob grinding. YES - those are the options we have already, but they are just not viable options when you compare the XP.

And some say there are still Places to AOE grind?? Where?? - I know 1 spot that right now was pretty good at V2-6. And that spot is so small, than with more than 3-5 players there, it not worth a damn.
We need viable grinding of normal mobs in all areas. 300-400xp pr. kill is a joke.

MAX level after 72 hours? I would prefer more playtime for my money, but each to their own.

However, Cadwell's silver and gold should also be rewarding...

So MAX level isn't really MAX level is it?

If you can get to level 50 in 72 hours then it shouldn't be too hard to find an option to get the XP Cadwell's would give - and at a similar rate, if not better. The only problem you might have is that lower level zones are full of VR14s grinding XP because they have no other way to get it.

The problem is more fundamental.

People want to progress. If there's progression then some will progress faster than others, and some will never be happy with their rate of progress. Put in a ceiling and people will race to reach it. Have an open-ended system and people will complain they can never complete it...

Khaldar · March 2015

Froggmann5 wrote: »

God forbid that Zenimax wants their game to have LONGEVITY.

Most of you seem to forget that it used to be exponential XP gains. Meaning that VR 11-12 was OVER 10 MILLION XP. If anything, it's easier now to level an alt to VR14 than it was months ago.

Most people that are complaining literally don't have the patience. You can grind out five Vet levels in one day currently.

None of you would make it in any other MMO where it can take YEARS to get ONE skill to max level (looking at you Runescape).

Quit asking Zenimax to hold your hand and give you free levels. It isn't going to happen.

No. Most of us have a life outside of this game. This isn't EQ1 nor will it ever be that great. So there is no need to punish the people trying to level because ESO is lacking amazing raids and cool loot waiting at end game like EQ1 had. ZOS just wants to put you on a treadmill and make that treadmill last forever with minimal content and effort.

wOOOOt_of_SD · March 2015

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

I stopped at the first line.

Leveling in VR has been much easier the past months than the first implementation. Do every quest, discover everything, kill everything along the way. I made VR 14 before Craglorn like multiple other players.

That is the problem in an nutshell mate - YOU HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING!
You are forced to do every quest, every dungeon etc.. There is no viable alternative to xp.
You must do all silver and gold, or you can pvp and Progress at about 1/5 the speed of questing which is slow enough.

Boohoo?

God forbid you actually play parts of the game. I did everything because that's what I wanted to do and I had fun doing it.

Those who are too lazy will see the results of their inactions. One can make a choice to bum out in zones and only do a bare minimal to progress, but yeah, all choices have consequences.

Got to love the "I WANT IT NOW!!!!" generation.

I Did it all on my first V14 char.
PVP is the only fun in this game now. But I have to do 200+ hours of boring story to get there.

Zershar_Vemod · March 2015

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

I stopped at the first line.

Leveling in VR has been much easier the past months than the first implementation. Do every quest, discover everything, kill everything along the way. I made VR 14 before Craglorn like multiple other players.

That is the problem in an nutshell mate - YOU HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING!
You are forced to do every quest, every dungeon etc.. There is no viable alternative to xp.
You must do all silver and gold, or you can pvp and Progress at about 1/5 the speed of questing which is slow enough.

Boohoo?

God forbid you actually play parts of the game. I did everything because that's what I wanted to do and I had fun doing it.

Those who are too lazy will see the results of their inactions. One can make a choice to bum out in zones and only do a bare minimal to progress, but yeah, all choices have consequences.

Got to love the "I WANT IT NOW!!!!" generation.

I Did it all on my first V14 char.
PVP is the only fun in this game now. But I have to do 200+ hours of boring story to get there.

Ah, you're one of those players lol.

Scamandros · March 2015

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

I stopped at the first line.

Leveling in VR has been much easier the past months than the first implementation. Do every quest, discover everything, kill everything along the way. I made VR 14 before Craglorn like multiple other players.

That is the problem in an nutshell mate - YOU HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING!
You are forced to do every quest, every dungeon etc.. There is no viable alternative to xp.
You must do all silver and gold, or you can pvp and Progress at about 1/5 the speed of questing which is slow enough.

Boohoo?

God forbid you actually play parts of the game. I did everything because that's what I wanted to do and I had fun doing it.

Those who are too lazy will see the results of their inactions. One can make a choice to bum out in zones and only do a bare minimal to progress, but yeah, all choices have consequences.

Got to love the "I WANT IT NOW!!!!" generation.

AlnilamE · March 2015

zward887_ESO wrote: »

I just finished Cadwell's Gold last week and I am halfway through VR12. I've pretty much hit a brick wall with levelling. Craglorn has been nerfed into the ground and the Rift is overrun with grinders, because Craglorn was nerfed into the ground.

I don't really know what to do next and its really disappointing. I took it real casual over this last year and patiently waited for them to fix endgame so I would have something to do a fairly easy time getting there when I was ready to make the VR14 push and now it seems like there is nothing left.

I am really disappointed in this game

Have you done all the PvE in Cyrodiil?

Just completing all 5 quest hubs should get you close to V13 (or to V13 depening on how much collateral damage you do). Then there are dungeons to clear and skyshards to find, as well as a number of quests that are spread out across the map.

billybailey1982ub17_ESO · March 2015

People do use the grind spots for more then just leveling to VR14 we also use it to cap out Skills you might not use so we can try new builds not just what we find online. sometimes Fighting a grind mobs you find a new way of doing something or just that your skills are to low or maybe you want to try 2hander or even resto staff and if your already VR14 what are you going to do but grind.

Grao · March 2015

I don't think the OPs complain is that it takes too long to rank up a character, but that certain activities in the game offer you almost no experience reward and lets face it, this is a problem ESO has been struggling with not only for normal leveling, but also for champion point gain.

Zenimax has made their mission to nerf every grind spot yet they don't give us new content to go through, their repeatable quests give laughable exp and are just plain boring, PvP gives no exp whatsoever and it never did... As in many aspects of ESO, it is a balancing issue.

Zorvan · March 2015

Froggmann5 wrote: »

God forbid that Zenimax wants their game to have LONGEVITY.

Most of you seem to forget that it used to be exponential XP gains. Meaning that VR 11-12 was OVER 10 MILLION XP. If anything, it's easier now to level an alt to VR14 than it was months ago.

Most people that are complaining literally don't have the patience. You can grind out five Vet levels in one day currently.

None of you would make it in any other MMO where it can take YEARS to get ONE skill to max level (looking at you Runescape).

Quit asking Zenimax to hold your hand and give you free levels. It isn't going to happen.

So you compare a sandbox style ( Runesape ) to a themepark ( ESO ) in your argument for grinding? Grinding is perfectly acceptable in a sandbox game ( and is expected in craptastic asian games ), it is not an acceptable way to level in a themepark. Relying on grind to cover your inability to create timely new content does your game no favors.

Also, in any game where I hit the point grinding or "dailies" are the only leveling left, it's time to reroll or leave. So I'll never be going past 50 in this game as it is.

Reliance on grinding and dailies is the same as the devs just coming out and stating "We want you to continue throwing us money for the least amount of effort on our parts to earn it.". Except people stop throwing you money and suddenly your game is "Unlimited".

Khaldar · March 2015

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

I stopped at the first line.

Leveling in VR has been much easier the past months than the first implementation. Do every quest, discover everything, kill everything along the way. I made VR 14 before Craglorn like multiple other players.

It's this very thinking that continually scares away new players once they hit VR1. My friends list of inactives grows by the week.

So you do realize a large portion of this game base left at VR1 (Single player gamers and MMORPGers alike). I left. My gaming friends left and many others have left because of the VR XP grind. I was the only one of my friends that came back. 1 of 6. That's not bad I guess, but its only one example.

VR offers you nothing that rolling an alt won't accomplish except for higher levels to be stronger in PvP, another zone and some dungeons. All that for a low cost of 14 million XP (the last 3million being the WORST). But the reward for all that Vet quest grinding is laughable. My VR14 stays parked 75% of the time anyway.

I played EQ1 for years. It was a terrible grind, but the end rewards were worth the pain.

Khaldar · March 2015

billybailey1982ub17_ESO wrote: »

People do use the grind spots for more then just leveling to VR14 we also use it to cap out Skills you might not use so we can try new builds not just what we find online. sometimes Fighting a grind mobs you find a new way of doing something or just that your skills are to low or maybe you want to try 2hander or even resto staff and if your already VR14 what are you going to do but grind.

Exactly. Grinding skills is a pain in the butt as a VR14 now. Still grinding for Flawless Dawnbreaker. Wait... But I have done all my PVE quests?!?!!?!

Bogdan_Kobzar · March 2015

Ok, my two cents.
Anyone saying they can grind 5 vet levels in a short time better fess up with what faction toon they are using, and where they are doing this. I had a horrible time completing an objective quest in Cadwell's Silver because a duo of PvP 'dorks' vet 14 alliance rank 37 and 39, were grinding in the quest area, obviously they figured out how to bypass the grinding nerfs, they grind in a quest area that has not yet been nerfed.
Since my toons are EP, i'll let the secret out. THE RIFT is the top xp, champ pt, loot spot in the game, but only if you are NOT EP faction. If you're EP, this is your level 41 to 48 zone, if you are AD or DC this is a veteran zone.
So, you need to ask yourselves, which faction has the EP zones as part of their Cadwell's Gold? And, who now OWN's the buff servers to maximize exploiting The Rift as their V10 zone?
ok, back to the OP,
Yes, it is much easier to increase veteran ranks now than before (been here since beta).
But, seriously, I put a stop watch on a Vet 1 toon and completed one zone out of Cadwell's Silver.
I then set a countdown timer for that same time and went and only killed mudcrabs in that same zone.
The final result:
I GOT MORE XP'S KILLING MUDCRABS THAN DOING AN OBJECTIVE QUEST IN CADWELL'S SILVER!!

Houston, we have a problem....

don't take my word for it, time it for yourself.

Nazarousb14_ESO · March 2015

Mostly questing to level, and getting a vet level every 2 days and 1 a day during the weekends. Does not seem to be to much of a grind. Sure I could go to a grind spot and pick up 2 or 3 in a day, though this will not give you the necessary skill points for your level, to be effective in end game. One trick ponies with no versatility.
Enjoy the content they worked really hard to bring us a game that can draw you in and not even notice the time pass.
On another note I have out leveled the content after I got by vet 5 zones. with my current character I just now hit vet 8 areas and am only 35% away from vet 10. This by doing all the content I can manage, soloing, each zone.

Extremeties · March 2015

If exp is being cut to be even worse then it currently is then this just confirms my reasoning for quitting this game in the first place. I'm sorry but I did 189027387 quests from 1-50 then a massive questline that went through cold harbor to get to the VR zones only to find that were forced to quest through all the VR zones to make a dent in our exp. Im sorry but forcing people in to 1 way of progression is the worst idea any dev can come up with.

VARIETY is what this game needs. Forcing people to quest to progress is NOT the thing to do. Some people enjoy questing, others enjoy grinding. Give us both options. Instead, your just going to make a chunk of players unhappy/quit the game. I know I personally enjoy both but seeing as how the experience from 1-50 was a ton of questing(with options of grinding if I wanted) getting to the VR zones and seeing that mobs give a ridiculously amount of exp vs how much exp is required per level is just pathetic.

ZoS, wake up. Variety is a GOOD thing. Not a bad

KBKB · March 2015

good lord was 100x worse at launch, 1 mil per rank is short and easy you should have tried hittign V10/V12/V14 when they were released.

Extremeties · March 2015

Bogdan_Kobzar wrote: »

Ok, my two cents.
Anyone saying they can grind 5 vet levels in a short time better fess up with what faction toon they are using, and where they are doing this. I had a horrible time completing an objective quest in Cadwell's Silver because a duo of PvP 'dorks' vet 14 alliance rank 37 and 39, were grinding in the quest area, obviously they figured out how to bypass the grinding nerfs, they grind in a quest area that has not yet been nerfed.
Since my toons are EP, i'll let the secret out. THE RIFT is the top xp, champ pt, loot spot in the game, but only if you are NOT EP faction. If you're EP, this is your level 41 to 48 zone, if you are AD or DC this is a veteran zone.
So, you need to ask yourselves, which faction has the EP zones as part of their Cadwell's Gold? And, who now OWN's the buff servers to maximize exploiting The Rift as their V10 zone?
ok, back to the OP,
Yes, it is much easier to increase veteran ranks now than before (been here since beta).
But, seriously, I put a stop watch on a Vet 1 toon and completed one zone out of Cadwell's Silver.
I then set a countdown timer for that same time and went and only killed mudcrabs in that same zone.
The final result:
I GOT MORE XP'S KILLING MUDCRABS THAN DOING AN OBJECTIVE QUEST IN CADWELL'S SILVER!!

Houston, we have a problem....

don't take my word for it, time it for yourself.

What about the Rift makes it the top xp? What there provides good exp/champ pts?

Khaldar · March 2015

Nazarousb14_ESO wrote: »

Mostly questing to level, and getting a vet level every 2 days and 1 a day during the weekends. Does not seem to be to much of a grind. Sure I could go to a grind spot and pick up 2 or 3 in a day, though this will not give you the necessary skill points for your level, to be effective in end game. One trick ponies with no versatility.
Enjoy the content they worked really hard to bring us a game that can draw you in and not even notice the time pass.
On another note I have out leveled the content after I got by vet 5 zones. with my current character I just now hit vet 8 areas and am only 35% away from vet 10. This by doing all the content I can manage, soloing, each zone.

Yes. This all correct and exactly how it felt on my first playthrough (after I returned). But, do it again on an alt or two. It's not nearly as fun. Also, once you reach V14, hopefully you leveled up all the skills for every line and their morphs, OR you will have to grind because you completed all of your quests.

Tankqull · March 2015

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

- XP - its harder than ever to level as veteran.
And I have a feeling that XP and grindspots are nerfed to force us to buy XP potions.

Where is the logic in making every Vet level cost 1 million XP, but the xp rewards are smaller the lower vet level you are?

ZOS is shutting Down every spot worth grinding for kill XP. Pre 1.6 we had at least boring grinding as an option.. Now ESO has less options,
and more strict system than ever.

Right now as a veteran level you have to totally clear every vet zone for every quest, dolmen, boss and dungeon to even level up.
Its a sick system forcing players to do ALL PVE content. Don't ZOS realise that many of us just want to play ESO because of the PVP?

Why is ZOS nerfing and killing grindspots?
Either they have a stupid plan that every character MUST play all content, or its to force us to buy XP potions from the Crown shop.

If the story of the PVE zones is so great, then make it a free option for those who love story.
Personally im sick of it. Im V7 now on my second char, and 1 time was WAY MORE than enough. 1-50 was great, but silver and gold
is just plain questing hell - when you are a pvp player.

Does ZOS hate PVP players?

they have made the CP system to be a long sloppy road - with the option to grind that road can become prety steep and short negating their intention. so what do they do? cripple every XP gain as much as possible (no kill xp - no xp from repeatable quests even though they are done only on a daily base) to obtain their "long term goal" - complet BS but thats the waay it is.

VirtualElizabeth · March 2015

My end game choice is PVP. Now mind you, I do also plan on clearing the Silver and Gold areas when I need quiet time, but I am a bit irritated that ZOS is not allowing any sort benefit for those of us who do want to PVP.

Please ZOS, listen to your player base. Quite a few active PVPers also take advantage of all the content available - dungeons, questing, etc and so on. Please don't judge the small minority of "all PVP all the time type players" ruin the XP given for those of us who would like it as a viable option for end game content.

Zhoyzu · March 2015

wOOOOt_of_SD wrote: »

zeuseason wrote: »

Cool story bro: saw a player grind out 5 vet levels in one day in one of these 'removed grind spots'. More power to them tho, I'm not a grinder!

As I quest, I still see lots of small groups grinding out their characters.

And, since you are a pvp player, why even care about levels really past 50?

There are maybe a few small areas where you can grind mobs for limited xp. Not 5 vet levels the same spot. And not fast, not even decent speed.

And apparantly you have no clue to how PVP Works. My V14 will win 10/10 fights against your lvl 50.

I have a lvl 30 that wins 1v1 left and right. If the player is skilled he can overcome level disadvantages.