Race changes

Atreyu · March 2015

Muizer wrote: »

Yes, race change. Of course. I mean, heaven forbid there be any choices in the game that have, you know, consequences.........

yeah then zenimax revamp the system nullifying your choice.

it's like a guy rolling a DK for flames and dragons...and then 1 month later zenimax decide it's time for DK to shoot pink beams and ride unicorns.
And you are like " wait this isn't what I actually rolled initially. "

it's the reason most mmos nowadays step away from races differences in terms of stats. The class you rolled will always be the class you rolled. Nerf and buffs come and go , people will adapt.

But then the system changes and u cannot play your class to 100% of it's potential in a specific build because you are held down by a third factor, your race choice.

Iluvrien · March 2015

Atreyu wrote: »

It's the reason most mmos nowadays step away from races differences in terms of stats. The class you rolled will always be the class you rolled. Nerf and buffs come and go , people will adapt.

This is one reason that I have, recently, started seeing the wisdom in the "remove all combat related racial abilities" argument. At first I wanted to retain them because I actually wanted my Dunmer to feel like a Dunmer (able to walk through anything less that molten lava with comparative ease if I maxed out the passive) but these days I have decided that sense should be brought out in my playing of the character, perhaps not in the inherent mechanics of the game.

If they made the impact of racial passives less significant, or even changed them all to be utility based abilities then we might see an end to calls for race changes because there would be no mechanical benefit in doing so.

...optimistic, I know.

Alphashado · March 2015

People aren't willy-nilly asking to change their race at the drop of a hat. We just want our character's to be what we envisioned them to be when we created them. I would never have created a Breton NB had I known that ZoS was going to overhaul the entire combat system and effectively eliminate hybrid builds.

Nobody is attempting to fix the mistakes they made at character creation. We are asking ZoS to allow us to fix the characters they broke.

Atreyu · March 2015

Alphashado wrote: »

Nobody is attempting to fix the mistakes they made at character creation. We are asking ZoS to allow us to fix the characters they broke.

Them argonian nightblades

Iluvrien · March 2015

Alphashado wrote: »

People aren't willy-nilly asking to change their race at the drop of a hat. We just want our character's to be what we envisioned them to be when we created them. I would never have created a Breton NB had I known that ZoS was going to overhaul the entire combat system and effectively eliminate hybrid builds.

Nobody is attempting to fix the mistakes they made at character creation. We are asking ZoS to allow us to fix the characters they broke.

And I, for one, wouldn't be against that. But what is the criterion for deciding whether a change to the passives of a race is significant enough to warrant allowing a race change? What do we do when calls for the same thing ring out in a month's time when ZOS decides to rebalance again? Or two months? Or six? When the VR system goes? When the first DLC pack comes out and new gear necessitates new builds? Or when the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood are introduced using skill lines that people didn't build towards?

I don't think that "because of the changes in 1.6" make sense as a reason in the long term. Surely the question to be answered is whether race change should be made available permanently (in game and in the crown store), occasionally (after "major" changes with ZOS deciding what constitutes "major") or not at all on the basis of long term trends rather than short term changes. Isn't it?

Iluvrien · March 2015

[Double Post]

Zhoyzu · March 2015

TheShadowScout wrote: »

[snip], that's 20$ added to the developers war chest to finance new content for the rest of us...

Like enhancing the crown store and adding UI elements to direct you to the crown store quicker and more obnoxiously!

Skafsgaard · March 2015

race change is a must when they keep changing stuff up so much, especially when you consider the competitive environment in endgame PvE and especially PvP. Should've been a free race change along with 1.6 tbh.

But I'd prefer the choice to change, so I can go mag for a couple of months till it get boring, switch to stam, and tank

I support race change!

Spangla · March 2015

Skafsgaard wrote: »

race change is a must when they keep changing stuff up so much, especially when you consider the competitive environment in endgame PvE and especially PvP. Should've been a free race change along with 1.6 tbh.

But I'd prefer the choice to change, so I can go mag for a couple of months till it get boring, switch to stam, and tank

I support race change!

This is so obvious to me.

First you cannot completely change the mechanics of a game that make the decision on which you chose your race irrelevant, without offering a change. It's like saying you can't change skills. At the end of the day race is just 4 skills? What's the difference? The visual really doesn't mean anything.

Second, you cannot have % based racials and then remove the stat caps lol - um obviously!

Comon ZOS! Allow a change of the racial passives it is ridiculous how much stronger some races are than others! Lots of people chose aragonian nb purely for the potion synergy, that you have just removed! You can't seriously expect people to re-roll 9 months worth of investment?

Genuinely people who think re-rolling is an option are weird to me, waaaaaay too much time on their hands.

eNumbra · March 2015

seanvwolf wrote: »

1) You made a choice on roleplay other than passives. Nothing has changed. Reroll a new character.
2) Now that classes have a more balanced (skewed to magicka) selection of magicka and stamina based options, your passives as they exist still allow you to lean on them to some degree. Nothing significant has changed. Reroll a new character.

Hey everyone it's okay! We'll just reroll our V14s!

Yeah, GFY.

Breton and Argonian nightblades alike have suffered thanks to the myriad of changes in the recent patch - Race changes are necessary.

Jar_Ek · March 2015

Maybe put a racial rebuild in store, that allows you to select racials from a list that are lore acceptable and automatically balances them. So 10% magicka couldn't also have 10% stamina for example.

gurgnir · March 2015

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

This time I will spell it out for you as if talking to a 3 year old. *ahem*.....Before great 1.6 come out, many moon ago game released with caps that were soft! People, could learn about character and learn about what are called racial passives *crowd oooo's and ahhh's*. So, people DID make choices based upon what they learned. But a year later, BIG change 1.6 came and made all choices invalid! Once, race didn't matter. It wasn't to important. Now with the soft caps extinct, race plays big big roll to player. *more ooo's and ahhh's*

What I am saying is "The race descriptions give players a pretty fair indicator as to who is effective at what. If a player can't make sense of the simple descriptions and use a bit of forward planning when creating their character then perhaps a different game would be more suited to them." is a dumb statement. Dumb is putting is lightly.

You expect people to read descriptions about a race a year ago and then have some magical power to see the future to know how it will change drastically a year later with 1.6? Are you slow?

Again, not one of the nay sayers has had a valid point. They never have and never will. Don't get offended, stupid is as stupid does. It's not your fault. You were born that way.

O, and the whole argument of "breaking immersion when people are just suddenly changing race left and right" is one of the most idiotic statements I have heard on the forums thus far. Here are a couple of reasons why.

1. YOU WILL NEVER KNOW. You won't be standing there and then POOF you're a breton. You will not just be walking around with your group then WAMMO your buddy is suddenly a dark elf. Even if they made it an instant change you STILL wouldn't even realize unless you were role playing and part of your role playing is being naked staring at each other. In that case you have some real issues you need to take care of.

2. This must be the FIRST Elder Scrolls game you have ever played because this stuff happens in Elder Scrolls. Out of the few examples I will give you one that will BLOW YOUR MIND. Dark elves. That's right, I said it. Dark Elves. Why don't begin by reading about the Dark Elves and how they came to be. I'll give you the cliff notes version right now. A god turned them into Dark Elves. So you are telling me is "breaks immersion" if someone changes race? How about a quest given by a god that allows you to change your race and it can only be done once ever? Hmm, sounds PERFECTLY WITHIN ELDER SCROLLS LORE.

No one is breaking immersion here, you're just breaking the internet with your non sense.

This is a problem of your own making. You made your choice when you already knew about soft caps and were trying to game the system. Despite the soft caps, the race descriptions advise the player on what role best suits them and this is in line with 1.6. Regardless, if you knew anything about mmorpgs, you'd know that classes and races typically get rebalanced.

The real problem here is your sense of entitlement. You feel your your main character should always be the most powerful race. And you want to pay money to ensure that your main character is the most powerful race. If we put the roleplay aspects of race to one side - like you seem very keen to do - and just look at race for the % bonus to stats, then something becomes clear.

You want to pay money to have better stats than other players.

You clearly have some sort of real world issues as you feel the need to resort to personal insults rather than articulate your argument effectively. I'm sorry for that and I hope you can work to overcome your issues given time, with the support of friends and family.

I won't continue this discussion with you, as I'm unwilling to tolerate your insults.

cyqa · March 2015

I don't have a horse in this race because I'm pretty content with my bosmer templar. I changed my build completely from magicka to mostly stamina after 1.6 and I'm happy.

But personally, I guess I don't have any problems with a race change in the crown store. For those worried about FOTM, maybe it could have a limitation; if you change your race you aren't able to do it again for 3 months, or something. I don't know. I don't feel strongly either way, but I would support the option to have it implemented.

Wing · March 2015

I support race change

wing

Skafsgaard · March 2015

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Maybe put a racial rebuild in store, that allows you to select racials from a list that are lore acceptable and automatically balances them. So 10% magicka couldn't also have 10% stamina for example.

Yea, who would go for both stam & magicka...

Would be cool to have something like... i dunno 12% hp and 10% stam.. oh wait..

Kragorn · March 2015

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

I can't remember, did ZoS say race changes would be available when game officially goes B2P?

No they didn't and I'm pretty sure you know they didn't.

Skafsgaard · March 2015

gurgnir wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

This time I will spell it out for you as if talking to a 3 year old. *ahem*.....Before great 1.6 come out, many moon ago game released with caps that were soft! People, could learn about character and learn about what are called racial passives *crowd oooo's and ahhh's*. So, people DID make choices based upon what they learned. But a year later, BIG change 1.6 came and made all choices invalid! Once, race didn't matter. It wasn't to important. Now with the soft caps extinct, race plays big big roll to player. *more ooo's and ahhh's*

What I am saying is "The race descriptions give players a pretty fair indicator as to who is effective at what. If a player can't make sense of the simple descriptions and use a bit of forward planning when creating their character then perhaps a different game would be more suited to them." is a dumb statement. Dumb is putting is lightly.

You expect people to read descriptions about a race a year ago and then have some magical power to see the future to know how it will change drastically a year later with 1.6? Are you slow?

Again, not one of the nay sayers has had a valid point. They never have and never will. Don't get offended, stupid is as stupid does. It's not your fault. You were born that way.

O, and the whole argument of "breaking immersion when people are just suddenly changing race left and right" is one of the most idiotic statements I have heard on the forums thus far. Here are a couple of reasons why.

1. YOU WILL NEVER KNOW. You won't be standing there and then POOF you're a breton. You will not just be walking around with your group then WAMMO your buddy is suddenly a dark elf. Even if they made it an instant change you STILL wouldn't even realize unless you were role playing and part of your role playing is being naked staring at each other. In that case you have some real issues you need to take care of.

2. This must be the FIRST Elder Scrolls game you have ever played because this stuff happens in Elder Scrolls. Out of the few examples I will give you one that will BLOW YOUR MIND. Dark elves. That's right, I said it. Dark Elves. Why don't begin by reading about the Dark Elves and how they came to be. I'll give you the cliff notes version right now. A god turned them into Dark Elves. So you are telling me is "breaks immersion" if someone changes race? How about a quest given by a god that allows you to change your race and it can only be done once ever? Hmm, sounds PERFECTLY WITHIN ELDER SCROLLS LORE.

No one is breaking immersion here, you're just breaking the internet with your non sense.

This is a problem of your own making. You made your choice when you already knew about soft caps and were trying to game the system. Despite the soft caps, the race descriptions advise the player on what role best suits them and this is in line with 1.6. Regardless, if you knew anything about mmorpgs, you'd know that classes and races typically get rebalanced.

The real problem here is your sense of entitlement. You feel your your main character should always be the most powerful race. And you want to pay money to ensure that your main character is the most powerful race. If we put the roleplay aspects of race to one side - like you seem very keen to do - and just look at race for the % bonus to stats, then something becomes clear.

You want to pay money to have better stats than other players.

You clearly have some sort of real world issues as you feel the need to resort to personal insults rather than articulate your argument effectively. I'm sorry for that and I hope you can work to overcome your issues given time, with the support of friends and family.

I won't continue this discussion with you, as I'm unwilling to tolerate your insults.

paying to change a race is not about paying to get better stats, it's about levelling the playing field. A lot of ppl are stuck with poor race choice, since the game and your experience of it has changed so much. Relolling (typo but fun so I left it in

) is not really an option as a PvP player, since there're some powerful bonuses (passives) and cool active abilites that you have to unlock first - and believe me it's not comparable to levelling a weapon line and getting the last skill morphed. IF they had Alliance Rank bound to account - I could be convinced to reroll and just focus on levelling the stuff I need (but would still have to collect mages book 2nd time around JUST for meteor..) this is basically the problem, this game is not alt friendly and rerolling isnt something that's on the table. See I dont enjoy my journey from 1-v14 - I feel calm and relaxed at v14. Ppl play mmo's different - and tbh, if I wanted real immersion or lore i would never play online..

So I cant really see the fuss about not being able to (like me) go stamina or if some is stuck with a nord and they dont want to tank, jsut dps.. let them change for gods sake - whats the problem? With race change stats will be evened out - and yes, all will be able to afford the 25 bucks - its basically a sub period of which they dont have to pay now anyways - can use it on a race change and all wins - no?

Or do you have the OP imperial race and dont want ppl on ur lvl?

aneova_ESO · March 2015

Artemiisia wrote: »

No and it will never happen

I said that all the time about them not losing a full sub model....

Skafsgaard · March 2015

aneova_ESO wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

No and it will never happen

I said that all the time about them not losing a full sub model....

Yes, and my grandma said that about us going to the moon... things change and there's no reason they should not, just allow people to adapt to changes other than 'rerolling'

Keepercraft · March 2015

It will be good option for people, who spend lot of time on one character and update change game-play for that main character.

Iago · March 2015

I disagree with race change allowing it gives players an easy out. If your racialis or class were changed then find a way to make your character work in the new system or roll another. Having everything handed to you will not do any good for you ass person in the long run.

Moral of.the story be happy with what you have and make it work.

Rair.Kitani · March 2015

I'm not sure whether i like the race change idea or not.

I created a Khajiit-Nightblade in early access and i totally love it for its appearance and everything, even though he could have been more maxed out if i rolled i.e. imperial.
So i don't want to change MY race, no problem if others want to. But i would hate to hear "U know you could have 10% more stamina if you change race, blabla" every now and then.

A other idea would be to have some kind of birthsigns instead. Let's you pick 4 from lets say 20 different passives. So people aren't pushed to a race choice, because of a favored ressource pool.

AngryNord · March 2015

Rair.Kitani wrote: »

I'm not sure whether i like the race change idea or not.

I'd be fine With it if it meant all current progress was deleted, and the character started over in the Coldharbour prison at Level 1

Bloodystab · March 2015

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Here is all the reason you need for allowing a Race change

Argonian Nightblade

WillhelmBlack · March 2015

One time race change. Go back to Cadwell, he asks if you have found your Soul and who you really are. Answer yes or no, done.

Or, buy Imperial Edition. Allow convert race to Imperial option.

Skafsgaard · March 2015

Iago wrote: »

I disagree with race change allowing it gives players an easy out. If your racialis or class were changed then find a way to make your character work in the new system or roll another. Having everything handed to you will not do any good for you ass person in the long run.

Moral of.the story be happy with what you have and make it work.

I see these replies a lot - I always fail to see the argument, for sure if it was a single player game I would agree, but then you wouldnt need to spend around 6-9 months in PvP land to get certain skills.

And it's not 'an easy' out, it saves us doing WHAT WE HAVE DONE ALREADY?!?

And by that reasnoning all skills and morph should be stuck, cos.. choice should matter.. my ass. If you could not respec yes, maybe I would understand. But with FULL respec in place I cannot see the difference - so you took a wrong skill as you lvld and found out it didnt work, ok you made a mental note and next time u respecced didnt take it - why is it so different for races?

Iago · March 2015

Skafsgaard wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

I disagree with race change allowing it gives players an easy out. If your racialis or class were changed then find a way to make your character work in the new system or roll another. Having everything handed to you will not do any good for you ass person in the long run.

Moral of.the story be happy with what you have and make it work.

I see these replies a lot - I always fail to see the argument, for sure if it was a single player game I would agree, but then you wouldnt need to spend around 6-9 months in PvP land to get certain skills.

And it's not 'an easy' out, it saves us doing WHAT WE HAVE DONE ALREADY?!?

So you just want something handed to you because you don't want to put in the work on a new charachter.

Then simply find a way to make you character work.

Skafsgaard · March 2015

Iago wrote: »

Skafsgaard wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

I disagree with race change allowing it gives players an easy out. If your racialis or class were changed then find a way to make your character work in the new system or roll another. Having everything handed to you will not do any good for you ass person in the long run.

Moral of.the story be happy with what you have and make it work.

I see these replies a lot - I always fail to see the argument, for sure if it was a single player game I would agree, but then you wouldnt need to spend around 6-9 months in PvP land to get certain skills.

And it's not 'an easy' out, it saves us doing WHAT WE HAVE DONE ALREADY?!?

So you just want something handed to you because you don't want to put in the work on a new charachter.

Then simply find a way to make you character work.

my point is that in this game you cannot reroll main.. and if you're pvp'er its even more true. It's not being handed I have DONE IT ALL! My main is max, unlocked all i care about (still need to do gold if I cba) but most is complete. This proves I have beat the game, the game is boring, it's the players that makes it interesting hence why I choose to PvP. Now I have to complete the game AGAIN, to be competitive in PvP? This is some *** and either you're pulling my leg or some kinda old dogma repeating itself.

I get a nice loot handed to me every day, when I do gold pledge scaled for vr1 btw - so you get some handouts around Tamriel.

Iago wrote: »

Moral of.the story be happy with what you have and make it work.

Believe me Im trying..but a magicka templar has no tools for PvP stuff (atm we have more class skill that's counter productive for PvP ex. toppling charge (only gap closer availabe for magicka temp) has an global cooldown, jabs give CC immunity - damage skills with cast time i steer clear off or max 1 slotted. So I basically feel that my class as I liked my templar and as I have rolled it to be like just doesnt work and that's ok I want to try other stuff.. But then Im stuck with magicka passive and Im not a PvE heal bot

Iago · March 2015

Skafsgaard wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

Skafsgaard wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

I disagree with race change allowing it gives players an easy out. If your racialis or class were changed then find a way to make your character work in the new system or roll another. Having everything handed to you will not do any good for you ass person in the long run.

Moral of.the story be happy with what you have and make it work.

I see these replies a lot - I always fail to see the argument, for sure if it was a single player game I would agree, but then you wouldnt need to spend around 6-9 months in PvP land to get certain skills.

And it's not 'an easy' out, it saves us doing WHAT WE HAVE DONE ALREADY?!?

So you just want something handed to you because you don't want to put in the work on a new charachter.

Then simply find a way to make you character work.

my point is that in this game you cannot reroll main.. and if you're pvp'er its even more true. It's not being handed I have DONE IT ALL! My main is max, unlocked all i care about (still need to do gold if I cba) but most is complete. This proves I have beat the game, the game is boring, it's the players that makes it interesting hence why I choose to PvP. Now I have to complete the game AGAIN, to be competitive in PvP? This is some *** and either you're pulling my leg or some kinda old dogma repeating itself.

I get a nice loot handed to me every day, when I do gold pledge scaled for vr1 btw - so you get some handouts around Tamriel.

well we have to agree to disagree because we're never going to see eye to eye.

gurgnir · March 2015

Skafsgaard wrote: »

paying to change a race is not about paying to get better stats, it's about levelling the playing field. A lot of ppl are stuck with poor race choice, since the game and your experience of it has changed so much. Relolling (typo but fun so I left it in ) is not really an option as a PvP player, since there're some powerful bonuses (passives) and cool active abilites that you have to unlock first - and believe me it's not comparable to levelling a weapon line and getting the last skill morphed. IF they had Alliance Rank bound to account - I could be convinced to reroll and just focus on levelling the stuff I need (but would still have to collect mages book 2nd time around JUST for meteor..) this is basically the problem, this game is not alt friendly and rerolling isnt something that's on the table. See I dont enjoy my journey from 1-v14 - I feel calm and relaxed at v14. Ppl play mmo's different - and tbh, if I wanted real immersion or lore i would never play online..

So I cant really see the fuss about not being able to (like me) go stamina or if some is stuck with a nord and they dont want to tank, jsut dps.. let them change for gods sake - whats the problem? With race change stats will be evened out - and yes, all will be able to afford the 25 bucks - its basically a sub period of which they dont have to pay now anyways - can use it on a race change and all wins - no?

Or do you have the OP imperial race and dont want ppl on ur lvl?

Like I said earlier, if people were asking for the racial bonuses to be less powerful than they currently appear to be, then I would support them. But like I also pointed out - people are not asking for this. Instead they want the inequality to remain and they want to be able to pay money so they can be more powerful than other, less informed players.

I hear what you say about re-rolling and I respect that - some people enjoy the journey, others think only of the destination. As a PvP'er I also recognise the difficulties in levelling up alliance ranks. But I really won't support an argument which is reducible to : 'I want to pay money to have better stats than other players'.

If people argued instead for a reduction in the benefits of racial bonuses then I'd support it. It's a good and fair suggestion.

For ref, my main is an Argonian healer.