Old topic. ZOS confirmed the max CP amount was 150 already.

monkeymystic · March 2015

Edit:

This is an old thread that was made before ZOS confirmed nobody had higher than 150 CP 4-5 days after patch.

Don't see why people are answering an outdated topic, so I'm editing this for that reason.

Brasseurfb16_ESO · March 2015

I'm currently at my 82th CP point and I can't care less if people have already 200 CP points or more. We knew on PTS servers, people were going to exploit the system and grind the hell out of it. We also assumed the CP system would be buged when released (because it wasn't ready), but the devs didn't take time to listen to the community feedback on PTS and made the patch go trough Live anyways.

It's their own fault if they allow people to get CP points that fast... But should we start punishing those people because they "exploit" a broken aspect in the game which the devs were clearly aware of and should have fixed before patching it to Live? What issues does it realy cause for the game, beside hurting the pride of a minority of people in PvP?

Demanding for a rollback is absurd and putting everyone on the same steps is in my oppinion just a masked attempt to get more free CPs.

monkeymystic · March 2015

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm currently at my 82th CP point and I can't care less if people have already 200 CP points or more. We knew on PTS servers, people were going to exploit the system and grind the hell out of it. We also assumed the CP system would be buged when released (because it wasn't ready), but the devs didn't take time to listen to the community feedback on PTS and made the patch go trough Live anyways.

It's their own fault if they allow people to get CP points that fast... But should we start punishing those people because they "exploit" a broken aspect in the game which the devs were clearly aware of and should have fixed before patching it to Live? What issues does it realy cause for the game, beside hurting the pride of a minority of people in PvP?

Demanding for a rollback is absurd and putting everyone on the same steps is in my oppinion just a masked attempt to get more free CPs.

This is not putting "everyone" in the same steps, this is simply reducing those who CLEARLY exploited 100% enlight bug back to max of 120-130 CP at this time, and the rest remain unaffected.
.
This is balancing a 100% enlightment BUG that made some people superior.

You think it's fine for exploiters to get away because its "part of the broken game"?
No.

You know many people who have over 120+ CP?
No.

Is it good with a rollback for everyone?
No, because many hours/days played for honest players too who can quit over something like this.

But some people knew this from PTS and grinded like mad with the 100% enlightment bug and have a huge advantage with 160+ CP points and counting while the rest are still under 100, and maxing it to say 120-130 CP up until now will be win-win for all and the balance of PvP/PvE trial times.

firstdecan · March 2015

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm currently at my 82th CP point and I can't care less if people have already 200 CP points or more. We knew on PTS servers, people were going to exploit the system and grind the hell out of it. We also assumed the CP system would be buged when released (because it wasn't ready), but the devs didn't take time to listen to the community feedback on PTS and made the patch go trough Live anyways.

It's their own fault if they allow people to get CP points that fast... But should we start punishing those people because they "exploit" a broken aspect in the game which the devs were clearly aware of and should have fixed before patching it to Live? What issues does it realy cause for the game, beside hurting the pride of a minority of people in PvP?

Demanding for a rollback is absurd and putting everyone on the same steps is in my oppinion just a masked attempt to get more free CPs.

I "sort of" agree with this. There's no need for a roll back, all this does is make the CP imbalance issues obvious. Hopefully that means ZoS will fix them sooner rather than later.

PvP is the only area where this imbalance would affect anyone, but it does more than hurt their pride. If people can't be reasonably competitive because their characters are underpowered, they will not enjoy the content and then won't play it. Personally, I'm glad people ground out these CPs (I did not), because it will make these imbalances obvious now instead of 3-4 months from now.

PvP was my favorite part of this game, but if ZoS wants it to be unplayable that's fine. They've already lost my sub, and I'm at the point where I'm simply doing other things with my time. I hope ZoS fixes it, I really enjoyed the PvP, but given their track record of improvements in the game I'm not going to hold my breath.

Nazon_Katts · March 2015

Either reset the system to a fresh start for everyone with the same rules and all mechanics working as intended or leave it as it is. You don't just cherry pick the rollback threshold to an amount that doesn't affect you, you deal with a rollback like everyone else or you don't like everyone else. After all, while we can only take your word for it that you didn't exploit, we can be sure others did and gained CPs they couldn't otherwise and still would be below that threshold.

So if you truly want a rollback of the system, include yourself. Otherwise I can't take this seriously.

Brasseurfb16_ESO · March 2015

firstdecan wrote: »

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm currently at my 82th CP point and I can't care less if people have already 200 CP points or more. We knew on PTS servers, people were going to exploit the system and grind the hell out of it. We also assumed the CP system would be buged when released (because it wasn't ready), but the devs didn't take time to listen to the community feedback on PTS and made the patch go trough Live anyways.

It's their own fault if they allow people to get CP points that fast... But should we start punishing those people because they "exploit" a broken aspect in the game which the devs were clearly aware of and should have fixed before patching it to Live? What issues does it realy cause for the game, beside hurting the pride of a minority of people in PvP?

Demanding for a rollback is absurd and putting everyone on the same steps is in my oppinion just a masked attempt to get more free CPs.

I "sort of" agree with this. There's no need for a roll back, all this does is make the CP imbalance issues obvious. Hopefully that means ZoS will fix them sooner rather than later.

PvP is the only area where this imbalance would affect anyone, but it does more than hurt their pride. If people can't be reasonably competitive because their characters are underpowered, they will not enjoy the content and then won't play it. Personally, I'm glad people ground out these CPs (I did not), because it will make these imbalances obvious now instead of 3-4 months from now.

PvP was my favorite part of this game, but if ZoS wants it to be unplayable that's fine. They've already lost my sub, and I'm at the point where I'm simply doing other things with my time. I hope ZoS fixes it, I really enjoyed the PvP, but given their track record of improvements in the game I'm not going to hold my breath.

Massive PvP has never been competitive in any games I've played, how is a minority of exploiters going to affect PvP on a massive scale when everything is objective based on a large scale. Those exploiters can as much be in your team like they could be on the opposite one. So the only real issue comes when you are facing those people 1 by 1 (and that's all about pride). But again, PvP in TESO is not about dueling and if you can't beat a guy because he is 20% stronger than you, there is nothing preventing you from calling for assistance.

Troneon · March 2015

Its a crap system.

Zenimax is to blame, not the players.

Punish Zenimax, not the players.

global_gbb16_ESO · March 2015

I've spent around 6-7 hours getting around a mere 5+ CP points and I'll be damned if they wipe the CP I've earned just because of little whiners like you saying the predictable "It's not fair! I want my mammy!" just because they've been gaining a stack of CP by harvesting delves or whatever.

They have 150+ CP and seriously so what? In the grand scheme of things considering it will take a few years to achieve (3600CP), what they achieved is relatively redundant.

Stop moaning and just get on with playing with the game.

The_Saint · March 2015

global_gbb16_ESO wrote: »

I've spent around 6-7 hours getting around a mere 5+ CP points and I'll be damned if they wipe the CP I've earned just because of little whiners like you saying the predictable "It's not fair! I want my mammy!" just because they've been gaining a stack of CP by harvesting delves or whatever.

They have 150+ CP and seriously so what? In the grand scheme of things considering it will take a few years to achieve (3600CP), what they achieved is relatively redundant.

Stop moaning and just get on with playing with the game.

You forget that we have some guilds here who wants good places in timetables etc. Also the pvp aspect.
With this bug this parts of the game are dead...

Take the cp away from the people with the bug, dont help everyone.
We have players here who where on the dark side of the bug. Never have enlighment longer then 5minutes. I also know people who dont get a cp 5 times and more because of the rollback bug...

Phinix1 · March 2015

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

It's their own fault if they allow people to get CP points that fast... But should we start punishing those people because they "exploit" a broken aspect in the game which the devs were clearly aware of and should have fixed before patching it to Live? What issues does it realy cause for the game, beside hurting the pride of a minority of people in PvP?

Yes, we should roll back CP to a reasonable cap as the OP suggests.

Why? Because a game breaking bug has allowed exploiters grinding with permanent Enlightenment to completely imbalance and ruin competitive PVP within three days of the patch release.

Defending these exploiters is like saying the people with 10,000 Imperial Motifs from back when the bank dupe bug was a thing should be allowed to keep them because "hey it's ZOS' broken game, man."

These people knew exactly what they were doing. They went on the PTS, found out how to exploit the system, and premeditatively set about staying awake for a 2+ day grinding session to cheat their way to an epeen-stroking advantage.

Then these scumbags have the nerve to come on the forums and brag about it.

Not only should they have the CP rolled back to a cap while ZOS fixes these embarrassing, game breaking bugs, but many of the worst offenders and organizers of this latest exploit should be banned for a clear TOS violation, just like the bank dupers.

Just my 2c.

Grasshopper · March 2015

I actually think this is a very bad idea, it is rather extreme to say the least. By doing this you are creating a scenario where it will frustrate users for hours of work in their mind.

In quite a few cases it could be the trigger for a lot of users to quit. I personally myself only have 85 champion points and I do not support punishing the community fro regular MMO behavior. Grinding is very common in MMO's and it allows users that are behind to catch up.

In this case, it was no so, but punishing basically the entirety of the hardcore community would have very bad consequences.

GaldorP · March 2015

I think the fairest "fix" would be to look at the amount of Champion Point XP everyone has earned since the release of Update 6 (exclude the up to 70 CP that you could get for existing VR characters) and then:

Keep 400k Champion XP earned per day since release fixed (so if it's been 4 days, keep 1.2m XP earned unchanged) and divide the remaining amount by 4.

400'000 * d + ((x - 400'000 * d) / 4) = y
whereas x is the amount of Champion XP earned since release of Update 6 and y is the new, fixed amount;
d is the amount of days that have passed since the release of Update 6 or how many times the Enlightenment bonus for 1 CP should have been given out had the system worked correctly;
if x is lower or equal 400'000 * d, keep x unchanged.

For example, on day 4 after launch, someone with 30 CP earned would keep 4 of those CP + the remaining amount (26) divided by 4 which is 6.5. So that would be a total of 10.5 CP.

So, if the fix were applied on day 4, for example:

Someone with 2 CP earned would keep 2 CP. Someone with 4 CP earned would keep 4 CP. Someone with 10 CP earned would keep 5.5 CP. Someone with 20 CP earned would keep 8 CP. Someone with 30 CP earned would keep 10.5 CP. Someone with 50 CP earned would keep 15.5 CP. Someone with 150 CP earned would keep 40.5 CP. If it were applied on day 5:

Someone with 2 CP earned would keep 2 CP. Someone with 4 CP earned would keep 4 CP. Someone with 10 CP earned would keep 6,25 CP. Someone with 20 CP earned would keep 8.75 CP. Someone with 30 CP earned would keep 11.25 CP. Someone with 50 CP earned would keep 16.25 CP. Someone with 150 CP earned would keep 41.25 CP. etc.

That way everyone would be compensated for the time they invested in a way the system was supposed to work (Enlightenment is supposed to work only for 1 CP per day; see this hotfix).
Also, this "fix" could be applied with just looking at the total number of Champion XP earned and the number of Champion XP received by logging in with existing VR characters at release, no other logs of any kind required.

Unfortunately, this still wouldn't solve the problem of people who haven't received any Enlightenment or less than 1 CP worth of Enlightenment per day, but I see no easy way to fix that and at least it's a fair solution for everyone else.

If no fix is applied that will leave some people with lots and lots of CP which they haven't earned and only received because the system was broken which in my opinion isn't fair.

olemanwinter · March 2015

I played this game from launch and Im already falling behind. I wont be able to PvP. I wont be able to run trials. Role play or quit I guess.

But why would a fresh new player ever bother with this game?

The CP system is absurdly broken conceptually. It will predictably ruin and kill this game.

Honestly...it almost seems like they are trying to make it fail on purpose.

You find 5 random people off the street and they would make better decisions.

Phinix1 · March 2015

Grasshopper wrote: »

I actually think this is a very bad idea, it is rather extreme to say the least. By doing this you are creating a scenario where it will frustrate users for hours of work in their mind.

In quite a few cases it could be the trigger for a lot of users to quit. I personally myself only have 85 champion points and I do not support punishing the community fro regular MMO behavior. Grinding is very common in MMO's and it allows users that are behind to catch up.

In this case, it was no so, but punishing basically the entirety of the hardcore community would have very bad consequences.

You are clearly out of the loop, my friend. Allow me to "enlighten" you.

This is NOT about punishing people for grinding. This is about players exploiting a confirmed (by ZOS post) bug in the Enlightenment system that allowed them to grind with an unintended permanent Enlightenment buff, allowing them to get roughly 1 CP every 10 minutes or so.

It is about recognizing that under intended mechanics it would be impossible to grind out 250 CP as some people have in the time allotted, and to roll back to a reasonable level during this period the bug was in place, before the gap becomes too prohibitive and many more people quit for lack of fair competition than would quit for getting rolled back on their blatant cheating.

Arguments against would be like saying "yeah but those people working the bank dupe bug spent a lot of time getting those 10,000 Imperial motifs while the bug was live, so they should be allowed to keep them or they might quit."

If the cheaters quit, good riddance. Let them go back to mashing headshots in some fap-off FPS. ZOS needs to do the right thing here and acknowledge their screwed up bug by rolling back the unfair advantage gifted to the exploiters.

Grapdjan · March 2015

They just need to look at server data, see who has been exploiting, and ban them

onlinegamer1 · March 2015

A year from now, someone will buy ESO, install it, roll a level 1 character, get it to 50, and have 0 CP and go PvP against someone with 1000 CP.

Either the CP system has to be balanced for this scenario, or it has to be removed from the game. Worrying about an imbalance is utterly pointless, there will BE imbalance naturally as new players join the game.

tinythinker · March 2015

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

But should we start punishing those people because they "exploit" a broken aspect in the game which the devs were clearly aware of and should have fixed before patching it to Live? What issues does it realy cause for the game, beside hurting the pride of a minority of people in PvP?

Grasshopper wrote: »

In this case, it was no so, but punishing basically the entirety of the hardcore community would have very bad consequences.

I personally myself only have 85 champion points and I do not support punishing the community fro regular MMO behavior.

Making a correction to the effects of a bug is *not* punishing anyone, regardless of whether one feels the bug should have been caught earlier.

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

Demanding for a rollback is absurd and putting everyone on the same steps is in my oppinion just a masked attempt to get more free CPs.

Retroactively capping/reducing the amount of CP awarded does not raise anyone's number of CPs.

Grasshopper wrote: »

I actually think this is a very bad idea, it is rather extreme to say the least. By doing this you are creating a scenario where it will frustrate users for hours of work in their mind.

In quite a few cases it could be the trigger for a lot of users to quit.

If they quit because the gains from a bug they exploited over a couple days are taken away then they quit. People threaten to quit all of the time to get what they want, but if they are doing so over a (potential) correction to an exploited bug, that it silly.

Grasshopper wrote: »

Grinding is very common in MMO's and it allows users that are behind to catch up.

The issue isn't grinding, it is about whether there was an Enlightenment bug that some players exploited (people are admitting there is/was).

Phinix1 · March 2015

Rolling EVERYONE back to no more than 100-120 CP would be the best possible solution.

It acknowledges that ZOS screwed up, which helps to mitigate the damage to their reputation and consumer confidence, which is on very shaky ground as it is.

They also need to get a real fix for the Enlightenment system out ASAP, like yesterday, and allow people to gain at least 2 CP per day based on an average play time of two hours. That means that everyone should get at least 2 CP worth of Enlightenment per day. Otherwise it won't matter how much you nerf grinds, the vast majority of people will never be able to catch up to the ridiculously overpowered no-lifers that grind their way to epeen success with 24-7 hero spam.

A person that works a full time job should be able to get a reasonable amount of CP in the time they have after work between the commute and family time. Otherwise, the game is done.

Also, the people that organized this exploit of the perma-enlightenment bug should be banned.

McDoogs · March 2015

The amount of gullible people who actually believe without proof there there was some sort of 'unlimited enlightenment' bug that was 'exploited' is insane. I have yet to see any proof that it had actually existed (plus the UI doesnt actually show the total enlightenment, so there would be no way to know its actually 'unlimited'). What is more likely is certain hardcores grinded like the no lifers they are and accumulated a lot of CP through the 4 CP of enlightment per day that most of us all got + an efficient mob grind rotation going more or less 24/7, which would be enough to get a cpl of hundred CP by now. I'd have done the same if I didn't have a job or self respect. Grind now to profit later.

Phinix1 · March 2015

McDoogs wrote: »

The amount of gullible people who actually believe without proof there there was some sort of 'unlimited enlightenment' bug that was 'exploited' is insane.

I am not convinced of this. There seemed to be certain buffs that people with Enlightenment could give to others without it that would instantly give them Enlightenment.

People getting together in a massive grind group could constantly pass it around and so long as you didn't zone or log, it worked. That is my understanding.

Need confirmation from ZOS or all is speculation, but I have personally seen Enlightenment spread to me by buffs of others.

Roechacca · March 2015

I can't wait till this goes no subscription . Then I can just come back and PVP a little here and there when other games are updating . I'm over the grind and nerfs .

McDoogs · March 2015

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

McDoogs wrote: »

The amount of gullible people who actually believe without proof there there was some sort of 'unlimited enlightenment' bug that was 'exploited' is insane.

I am not convinced of this. There seemed to be certain buffs that people with Enlightenment could give to others without it that would instantly give them Enlightenment.

People getting together in a massive grind group could constantly pass it around and so long as you didn't zone or log, it worked. That is my understanding.

Need confirmation from ZOS or all is speculation, but I have personally seen Enlightenment spread to me by buffs of others.

Again, no proof, just rumors. You young trolls these days....

olemanwinter · March 2015

global_gbb16_ESO wrote: »

Stop moaning and just get on with playing with the game.

Stop moaning and just quit...is more like it.

People will not play if they don't feel they can be competitive due to imbalance.

You don't want people punished by fixing CP imbalance. .. but an empty boring game with nobody to play with is punishment itself.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO · March 2015

They should just put everyone at 120 CP.

Olysja · March 2015

till 130 cp i think it's all legit atm. i've 99 done only in pvp 10/16h day but grinding it was 7 or more cps day. so till 130-135 i think it's legit (well some of them at least...)

anyway roll back is not necessary, just block CPs gain for the next 20 days so all got the chance to take back this exploit advantage, and in the meanwhile MAKE A DECENT CP GAIN SYSTEM: )

ZigoSid · March 2015

Even if they rollback or change something else, sooner or later CP will destroy PVP so get over it dude and enjoy the time before it dies.

I_killed_Vivec · March 2015

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

A year from now, someone will buy ESO, install it, roll a level 1 character, get it to 50, and have 0 CP and go PvP against someone with 1000 CP.

Either the CP system has to be balanced for this scenario, or it has to be removed from the game. Worrying about an imbalance is utterly pointless, there will BE imbalance naturally as new players join the game.

This is my attitude - I had my 70 CP when 1.6 dropped, I get about 1 CP for two hours play. I have what I have. I could grind harder if I wanted to, but I don't. I will fall behind, but that's my choice. It does not matter to me, and indeed I will not know, if another player with 200 CP got them "fairly" or not.

I think the main problem with CP - as well as VR - is the sense of entitlement that some people have of being "competitive" as soon as they reach level 50. This is simply not possible if there is to be progression in the game, because if you can progress then some people will progress faster than others. This is only natural.

I got mine, don't worry about his...

olemanwinter · March 2015

My Attitude If CP Was NOT Bugged: "I'm not a huge fan of the system, but if you give people something to grind you can't blame them for grinding, so just do your best"

My Attitude With a Bugged System: This total horsecrap. I gained and lost the same freaking CP 3 times yesterday. I gained enlightment and lost it agian 10 minutes later over, and over, and over. People are achieving massive CP gains while I can't even keep the one CP I do earn. F this noise!"

manny254 · March 2015

Lol you think they care about exploits? You realize at one points it was possible for a Sorc to have a bat swarm cost of like 7 or something like that. That was also when bat swarm could stack multiple casts

BlackEar · March 2015

So where is your proof?

Vahrokh · March 2015

ANY vaguely reputable MMO company has always had the same solutions to cheaters: perma ban with no prior warning.

All the rest smells of complacency, of a company feeling guilt for their sub-standard quality controls (and ZoS is really it), of not having the spine to take appropriate meausures against those who cheat.

It does not matter if it gives competivie advantage (it does) or not. They exploited knowing to exploit => insta-perma account ban.

This also fixes the issues about which "rollback to NNN CP" thresold to use. No neede for a thresold: if you are legit you keep what you have, if you cheated you are out. Simple as that.