Why are guards unkillable?

Valn · March 2015

Surely we should be able to kill a guard, at least with the help of someone else? Only that way our bounties will go up higher and higher. Right now if you get caught, paying the fine or running seems to be the only option..

dan958 · March 2015

You are the hero of Tamriel, you are the only one who can face Molag 'Bal and the evil forces.

...Gets killed by a guard.

Messy1 · March 2015

Valn wrote: »

Surely we should be able to kill a guard, at least with the help of someone else? Only that way our bounties will go up higher and higher. Right now if you get caught, paying the fine or running seems to be the only option..

So maybe it should be possible to kill guards and then your bounty would keep going up . . . however . . . each wave of guards that you kill get harder and harder and if your bounty gets over a certain amount then maybe super elite guards actively hunt you if you get anywhere near a major settlement.

There does need to be some authority in the Justice system that can put the VR 14s in their place so they don't become super rich kingpins or mass murderers.

Also, I find it amusing when people complain about the problems they encounter with the guards because they've killed so many NPCs or because they have stolen so much stuff. If you can't handle the repurcussions of the crimes you commit then don't do them or scale back!

Roechacca · March 2015

Because *** Logic

Dagoth_Rac · March 2015

Because if guards were killable it would make the Justice System trivial. You wouldn't even need to be hidden. Just steal right out in the open, kill guard, repeat. The point of the Justice System is to not get caught. Even if they made the guards really tough, players would just group up to kill them and you would be back to the situation where the Justice System is trivial because there is no risk involved. At that point, you might as well just mail everybody thousands of gold everyday and not even have a Justice System.

Maybe once they add a PvP part, the NPC guards could be made killable, since you would still have to worry about player guards. But as long as the only enforcement in the Justice System is NPC guards, the guards have to actually be able to enforce it.

nerevarine1138 · March 2015

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Because if guards were killable it would make the Justice System trivial. You wouldn't even need to be hidden. Just steal right out in the open, kill guard, repeat. The point of the Justice System is to not get caught. Even if they made the guards really tough, players would just group up to kill them and you would be back to the situation where the Justice System is trivial because there is no risk involved. At that point, you might as well just mail everybody thousands of gold everyday and not even have a Justice System.

Maybe once they add a PvP part, the NPC guards could be made killable, since you would still have to worry about player guards. But as long as the only enforcement in the Justice System is NPC guards, the guards have to actually be able to enforce it.

This is 100% on point.

The guards are invincible while the system is PvE-only. Because if they weren't, the Justice System wouldn't have any consequences worth being worried about.

TheShadowScout · March 2015

Because the powwes that be decided they should be, for now. Might be they decide to change that... someday.

Personally I would much rather see the guards at killable-with-effort strength (like the PvP guards in cyrodil), but if you do manage to kill one, your bounty increases a LOT, and three more spawn and pursue you, until they plow anyone under by sheer weight of numbers. And perhaps add a downside to killing a guard that lasts a -lot- longer then the often easily paid off bounty...

Well, maybe once they implement the PvP pertion of the jusrice system as well...

Elsonso · March 2015

I would imagine that even after the Justice System has PVP aspects that the guards will still be unkillable.

It is pretty easy to evade the guards, which is the main reason I like to see them invincible. In no way will the guard AI ever be able to adapt to the players. The only thing the guards have going for them is their invulnerability. In the PVP Justice System, even if the guards remain unkillable, players will still be able to easily evade them. The guard players will be the ones that catch up with the smarter players that can evade the NPC guards. Smart criminals are the ones that never encounter the guards at all, and these are the ones that will make PVP more interesting.

The only reason to go up against a guard is to get the achievements. If you are not achievement hunting and are finding yourself in combat with a guard, you are doing it wrong. Whether you can kill the guard or not is irrelevant. Getting caught is fail, and that should always be part of the game... PVE or PVP.

Darkeus · March 2015

i think guards should be mortals, but hard to kill and when they have low hp they should run or scream for help to get more guards taking you down. also the more crimes you do the stronger the guards should get, at some point to be ultra super mega hard to kill them.

Rykoth · March 2015

I think it's good as it is right now.

When they add the PVP part later, then make the guards killable. If they aren't, you'll have the player enforcers likely using the guards as backups. When the Enforcers are put into place, make the guards strong but *not* group only. They should be solo-able if you can deal with them one at a time.

SantieClaws · March 2015

I thought for a moment that this thread was about unkillable guar ...

I can see the guards need to be powerful - very powerful. But totally immortal so a group of about 20 players cannot even scratch them? I think it would be more fun if we actually knew there was a bit of a chance we could bring them down.

They can respawn of course. Not saying you should leave a city undefended for long but at least the slim chance of a town takeover should be possible.

Zershar_Vemod · March 2015

wenxue2222b16_ESO wrote: »

I thought for a moment that this thread was about unkillable guar ...

I can see the guards need to be powerful - very powerful. But totally immortal so a group of about 20 players cannot even scratch them? I think it would be more fun if we actually knew there was a bit of a chance we could bring them down.

They can respawn of course. Not saying you should leave a city undefended for long but at least the slim chance of a town takeover should be possible.

+1 to a fast respawn timer.

When guards are more powerful than Molag Bal....something is wrong.

Enodoc · March 2015

I agree that it needs to stay as it is right now, and that perhaps when the PvP Justice comes out, they could become killable. Even then though, perhaps after you have killed loads of guards / racked up a really high bounty, maybe invincible elite guards could spawn at that time, just to make sure the system remains stable. I don't want a situation where everyone is killing all the guards, and they're respawning in increased numbers all over the place, and lagging the game into Oblivion.

AlnilamE · March 2015

I love the guards as they are. The idea is not to get caught, after all...

Tandor · March 2015

The problem with making them killable is that they would need to be scaled to the zone, in order to give players of that level a chance against them, but then the result would be loads of low level zones having guards constantly being ganked by higher level players. Besides, the whole stealing/legerdemain concept is based around stealth and avoidance, if you're fighting guards you're doing it all wrong.

olsborg · March 2015

They should hire these guards to kill molag bal, and save the empire.

Jyiiga · March 2015

I'll toss my lot in with the crowd that thinks this is cheesy. Pardon me while I go kill some guards in Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim.

ESO - The only ES title where you will forever be chumped by common rabble.

nerevarine1138 · March 2015

Jyiiga wrote: »

I'll toss my lot in with the crowd that thinks this is cheesy. Pardon me while I go kill some guards in Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim.

ESO - The only ES title where you will forever be chumped by common rabble.

Single-player mechanics aren't the same as multiplayer mechanics. This seems fairly obvious, but apparently it bears repeating.

Until there are PvP elements in the Justice System, guards will need to be unkillable.

Tamanous · March 2015

They are the symbol of the justice system and embody the inescapable rule of law. If they could be killed ZOS would have to add many more layers and complexity to the system which would encumber it.

Look at how justice works within our society. You want that burden in the game? Players can't handle 2 minutes in jail within the game without freaking out.

Stop being so literal. IT''S A GAME! Perhaps ZOS will develop it more but I doubt it as single player rpg players can likely handle it but an mmo player will lose their f'ing mind if something inconveniences them for a few seconds.

newtinmpls · March 2015

Keep them unkillable, until there are fewer players running around stealing from and/or attacking people.

Er... that may take a while.
Post edited based on our Community Rules on Flaming

Jyiiga · March 2015

Tamanous wrote: »

They are the symbol of the justice system and embody the inescapable rule of law. If they could be killed ZOS would have to add many more layers and complexity to the system which would encumber it.

Look at how justice works within our society. You want that burden in the game? Players can't handle 2 minutes in jail within the game without freaking out.

Stop being so literal. IT''S A GAME! Perhaps ZOS will develop it more but I doubt it as single player rpg players can likely handle it but an mmo player will lose their f'ing mind if something inconveniences them for a few seconds.

Yes a game. From a long series of games that prides itself on being immersive. Toss in god mode guards and you can flush the idea down the drain. Maybe they should finish things before half ass implementing them. I'm not willing to give them a pass on everything they do.

Majic · March 2015

Q: Why are guards unkillable?

A: To keep people from killing them.

GreySix · March 2015

Valn wrote: »

Surely we should be able to kill a guard, at least with the help of someone else? Only that way our bounties will go up higher and higher. Right now if you get caught, paying the fine or running seems to be the only option..

No thanks. Watching closet-psychotics cut down NPCs in cities and towns is bad enough, but at least we get to watch the city guard then ruthlessly gut such players in the streets shortly thereafter.

We don't need the Grand Theft Auto version of TES here.

If you're a smart and resourceful criminal, you can and should be rewarded.

If you're a closet-psychotic or just an idiot, your character's life should meet a brutal end.

badmojo · March 2015

The guards who stand around town should be level appropriate, and mortal. But if you kill a guard they respond with(spawn) a group of guards scaled to your level, and the more guards you kill, the more guards they send after you. They could incorporate the PVP part by only allowing players to help if their rank was close enough to the guards. The game simply wouldn't let low level players engage with high level criminals, or let high level players slaughter low level criminals.

I suppose a problem with the pvp portion is how to determine if the player is helping the guards, or the criminal. You could tab target, but as soon as you used any kind of AOE, those guards would consider you hostile.
*shrug*

Ackwalan · March 2015

Why are guards unkillable? To prevent bored guilds from completely obliterating every living thing in a town just for giggles.

KBKB · March 2015

agreed so stupid also get caught stealing ina building with a guard and you have no choice but to die GfG

Zorgon_The_Revenged · March 2015

Riften riots are best kept to Skyrim in my opinion.

"Get in there Mjoll!!"

Lettigall · March 2015

They should make guards killable but killing guard should cost a lot. Huge bounty + reduced bounty decrease rate up to 90%, starting at 50% for 1st kill. If you get , lets say 10'000 bounty for 1 kill and it's decrease reduced to 50% you won't go on guard killing spree.

nerevarine1138 · March 2015

KBKB wrote: »

agreed so stupid also get caught stealing ina building with a guard and you have no choice but to die GfG

Not if you have a smart loadout of potions/abilities for getting away. I've routinely gotten out of buildings with a guard in the same room as me.

Sharee · March 2015

Lettigall wrote: »

They should make guards killable but killing guard should cost a lot. Huge bounty + reduced bounty decrease rate up to 90%, starting at 50% for 1st kill. If you get , lets say 10'000 bounty for 1 kill and it's decrease reduced to 50% you won't go on guard killing spree.

Why wouldn't you go on a guard killing spree? If you can just kill them, then it does not matter what your bounty is, since there won't be anyone who could force you to pay it.

Shunravi · March 2015

Lettigall wrote: »

They should make guards killable but killing guard should cost a lot. Huge bounty + reduced bounty decrease rate up to 90%, starting at 50% for 1st kill. If you get , lets say 10'000 bounty for 1 kill and it's decrease reduced to 50% you won't go on guard killing spree.

No, you would not care about your bounty because you could just kill the guards and not pay. Bounty would be pointless. What's 10,000,000+ bounty if you are never truly held accountable? Town lockout would be the worst of it, but even then, someone who would be a guard killer probably wouldn't care.

And guilds would have competitions to see who could survive the largest guard waves, for those who think increasing the number of guards after one is killed is a good way of doing it. If you think heal spamming was annoying, try every ability being spammed with a pile of bodies to boot. Think the old farming bots X100. It would not be just for giggles, there would be actual competitions around guard killing and dead cities.

As it is, if you are getting caught by guards, you are doing it wrong.