Armitas wrote: »

They should listen to everyone, but they should use their own expertise and discretion on how to respond to that information.

While that is correct, it should be obvious that the OP wasn't saying don't "listen" as in don't read feedback, etc... but rather in "don't make so many changes" based on just a few people.

I agree they listened to players to much, instead of listening to players they should have listen to bethesda they have been making elder scrolls like forever and every game has been great. listen to them not us as we see what we want which does not always make a good game or idea

This is slightly off topic but I'm gonna mention it anyway.

Feedback is always important, and ZOS has the right to choose whether to respond to it. But communication from ZOS' end has to improve as well.

In fact, I feel that ZOS does listen to feedback and bug reports and does put in an effort to respond. However, most players don't realize that as the patch notes they release don't contain enough details regarding the minor tweaks that they make. The patch notes should be extremely detailed, as this is the best way to TELL the player base about all the work they've done. I have one example to show this.

The final boss of veteran Crypt of Hearts, Nerien'eth, is a lich. An undead. There is no arguing about this. His in game appearance, in game texts and even the official COH release notes refer to him as a "lich". He uses the crystal attack that NPC liches use. His dropped helmet allows you to "summon a lich crystal". All available evidence suggests that he is undead.

And yet, before 1.6, Fighter's Guild skills do not proc on him. This is clearly a bug, and I reported it using the in game tool. After 1.6, he is now vulnerable to FG skills, as he should.

This was NOT mentioned in any of the patch notes. Why? ZOS, if you've fixed a bug or buffed/nerfed something, please TELL your players. If you don't, most people will assume you've forgotten about it. Or worse, once players do find out, it'll give players an impression that you're trying to "ninja nerf/buff" their characters. All of these reflect badly on your company image and the image of ESO as a whole.

I am all for giving feedback, as players are the ones who are the best at finding bugs and exploits, what could be OP or UP. What we need now is for the communication to go two-ways, as a one-sided conversation never lasts long.

That is all.

Brilliant post. This is exactly what I said before update 1.6 went live. Many of the players currently in game do not make a habit of visiting the forums to QQ like they're getting paid, and once 1.6 would land, the people who don't visit the forums frequently are going to get fed up with ZOS constantly making these brash changes to appease the vocal minority. PvE builds among casual and/or non-PvP players are constantly getting demolished, to the point where I honestly don't even know whether it makes sense to start leveling new skills, or getting new gear, knowing that a month from now the skills will change entirely.

Yeah, it's tough finding a balance for PvP but lord, give PvE a little consistency for goodness' sake. What's the point in investing time and effort into your builds and gear (which can be VERY costly if you don't craft and therefore have to pay for them) if they're all going to get nerfed, then buffed, then nerfed again every few months?

Jesus beam nerf is next.

Ysne58 wrote: »

I like the idea of separating out the PvE and PvP systems skillwise. It would eliminate some of the complaints where the changes to skills that have been made so far result in differing results for each type of play.

You also need to take care of the lag that overwhelms PvP and impacts PvE.

Yep... I was levelling my VR 1 alt because it's crazy to run daily repeatables that is boring because no new content when the lag hits in Coldharbor . I kept getting frozen in spot with total skill lag or running into an area with invisible mobs hitting me and killed me. Lag is too real.

kongkim wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

TagaParti wrote: »

Dear Zos,

First of all, i want to thank you for giving us a game to play for years. Thank you so much that you made it a very awesome game, and you are trying all your best to make it even better. My support is on you and to this game that i have played since its launch, i proudly say, I LOVE THIS GAME!

Are you even serious?

* B2P within the first year due to poor player and critical reception (no, not because of the console version)

* Very awesome game with the worst UI and some of the most ancient gameplay mechanics in the business

* Trying all your best to make it even better when in fact everything gets worse with every update because they're all deployed without Q&A

Yeah, you got some valid points there, don't you?

If Zenimax would listen to the playerbase, they wouldn't have created the mess called ESO 1.0 (VR leveling) and at least not the CS or other things in 1.6. But they didn't listen.

Way are you even here...

Maybe he's like me.
I am much happier with the recent changes but like @Seraphyel I think there was pretty obvious mistakes that could have just been avoided if they had listened to our feedback. I'm still on the fence about much of this game but I'm trying to keep an open mind during this transition. I can't wait till they get rid of veteran ranks. It never made any sense. I have criticized the UI on numerous occasions as well. It honestly hasn't improved much since release, and I'm starting to think it never will. It's a shame too since there have been so many wonderful addons made by the community that ZOS could replicate and make native to the game. As it is the game starts getting wonky if you have too many running at once, not to mention compatibility issues. The mechanics don't really bother me personally, but controller support would be really nice. This game is not designed in a way that is very ergonomic for sustained gameplay and in fact it actually becomes painful to play for long periods, especially when doing more intense combat. We have been asking for controller support since beta and it's still not here, even as they were working on it for the consoles. I'm not talking about downloading Xpadder or some other third party app that I have to pay for and program myself. I am talking about game supported controller options.

But just because I am not 100% satisfied with this product doesn't mean I should have to leave or keep silent.

DAOWAce wrote: »

Or they could actually listen to players.

All of our beta feedback was ignored. ALL of it. The beta forums were full of massive threads requesting changes to the game to actually make it an Elder Scrolls game instead of WoW in the Elder Scrolls universe. Not one single change was made to the game that did anything like that. It was all ignored and after the beta ended they slapped a release date on it and out the game went.

Don't confuse "don't listen to players" with "don't do everything players ask them to do"

They did not ignore ALL of my feedback. Quite a few of my suggestions are reflected in the game and a lot of the bugs that I reported were fixed. I appreciate that they have different views and priority than I do and I do not expect that every suggestion that I lay down will be blindly followed. Enough has happened to indicate that they read my feedback, or are at least reading feedback from people who agree with me.

I am also mindful of what I am suggesting. I don't suggest big changes with the expectation that they will do it. I suggest big changes so that they will think about it. My hope is that it will influence their thinking next time they look at making larger changes. I have enough experience to know the difference between something that they might implement now and something that might influence what they talk about in the hallway for the next few months.

Contraptions wrote: »

This is slightly off topic but I'm gonna mention it anyway.

Feedback is always important, and ZOS has the right to choose whether to respond to it. But communication from ZOS' end has to improve as well.

[SNIP]

ZOS, if you've fixed a bug or buffed/nerfed something, please TELL your players. If you don't, most people will assume you've forgotten about it. Or worse, once players do find out, it'll give players an impression that you're trying to "ninja nerf/buff" their characters. All of these reflect badly on your company image and the image of ESO as a whole.

I am all for giving feedback, as players are the ones who are the best at finding bugs and exploits, what could be OP or UP. What we need now is for the communication to go two-ways, as a one-sided conversation never lasts long.

In the early days of ESO, I wrote comments much like yours. I eventually stopped. They seem to have a very clear internal policy about giving out information. They frequently mention it on ESO Live, but it was obvious long before that. Tilting at windmills hurts you more than the windmills. I stopped tilting.

That said, I suspect that the way they have arranged their overall development process is 'interesting' in that it places limits, intentionally or otherwise, on the generation and publication of Patch Notes. It is the reason that they cannot put out patch notes in advance of a patch. It is why they frequently expect changes in patches instead of making absolute statements. Ultimately, it is not my job to "fix" them. If they want it to be, they know how to reach me.

But, yeah, I see statements like, "Adjusted the XP you receive from the mini-boss encounter" and I groan to myself. Adjusted? How much? Up? Down? 2x? 10x? This is information that should have been part of the patch notes, but was lost, not communicated to Gina, or intentionally omitted for whatever reason.

TagaParti wrote: »

At first, listening to players is very good. But as time went on, players saw this oppurtunity to gain advantage over other players who arent very vocal or arent visiting the forum at all. They made use of complain threads, they are in groups, or even a guild wanting to change something in the game for their very own agenda. And it seems that ZOS is listening too much. Anything "too much" is very harmful. Please be informed ZOS, these people who are very active in this forum dont even make a good percentage of your total players in game. Most of them dont have time to visit this forum, because there are just too much fun to have playing the game.

It is not as bad as has been stated. I do not believe that they exclusively listen to any particular customer group. I think they pull input and ideas from a lot of different places and from a lot of different people. I don't think that any one group is setting the tone for everyone else. Of course, they always drop whatever they are doing and read whatever I suggest.

ZOS is not flapping in the breeze. They are not a flock of birds that changes direction on a whim. They have a clear, but flexible, direction that they want the game to go. I think there may be more than one direction, actually, but they are clear, and they are flexible. The type of leaders who get assigned to projects like this are not the type to be making stuff up as they go, they know where they are going, even if it is not evident to us. This is not to say they won't change direction.

As far as game play goes, ZOS does what ZOS wants to do with the game. If players are suggesting a direction that ZOS is already heading, so much the better. They listen to what players say, but, in the end, ZOS does what ZOS wants to do because that is what ZOS wants to do. If the players agree, so much the better. If they players do not agree, well, maybe a few tweaks will help things. It is their game, not mine, not yours, not ours. I expect them to make decisions that are in the best interests of what they want to do with the game, not blindly follow some group of players.

This is why Sorcerer balance is not getting addressed according to what the forum wants. This is why Sorcerer changes on PTS were going pretty much opposite of what the forum was suggesting. When something this large, and this passionately commented on, is so obviously disregarded, it is usually an indication that there is something else going on, or the players simply don't get it. Since they do not communicate this sort of stuff with us on a level that would put all this into perspective, we are left to speculate as to why.



1) Yes, they listen to the players.
2) No, they do not just do what the players suggest.
3) Just because something sounds good in writing on the forum does not mean that it should be implemented in the game.
4) ZOS is in charge of ESO and they get to decide what they want to do with the game.

TagaParti wrote: »

Dear Zos,

First of all, i want to thank you for giving us a game to play for years. Thank you so much that you made it a very awesome game, and you are trying all your best to make it even better. My support is on you and to this game that i have played since its launch, i proudly say, I LOVE THIS GAME!

For someone like me who love this game, i would do what i could do to help this game from any harmful thing, which these days, i refer to "Players who want changes for themselves". For almost a year now, the game has been very awesome at serving its main purpose, to entertain. And it keeps on getting better because of the efforts of ZOS. Everything about the game have been properly thought of, we can see that every aspect was studied very much. Of course there will be bugs along the way, there will always be a balancing issues, but ZOS you are the best people who know it and can solve it, we are players only, and take note that players tend to think of any advantages in any game for themselves.

At first, listening to players is very good. But as time went on, players saw this oppurtunity to gain advantage over other players who arent very vocal or arent visiting the forum at all. They made use of complain threads, they are in groups, or even a guild wanting to change something in the game for their very own agenda. And it seems that ZOS is listening too much. Anything "too much" is very harmful. Please be informed ZOS, these people who are very active in this forum dont even make a good percentage of your total players in game. Most of them dont have time to visit this forum, because there are just too much fun to have playing the game.

I paid for this game, i play it a lot, and i want this game to run by noone but ZOS. I dont want to play other players' game. Actually it is not just me, more players are like me, but thyre not here in forum, maybe a few of them. ZOS please stop listening too much, it is destroying the game. You cant satisfy all these players. If you try to satisfy group A, group B will complain. If you try to change a bit for group B, group A complains. How about group C, D, and many more? It is a never-ending process to try. Let them just play your game, you have a brilliant group of people that have made this game awesome, and it will continue to get better. Just dont listen too much to outside noise.

This forum has turned into a PVP, dont be blinded by what appears to be a majority of players, theres no such thing as majority in this forum as your total players werent here. You know better than any player, you are a company! Now if you listened to them, please listen to me too, and start to stop listening too much.

Thank you, and keep up the good work.
It was always a job well done from you guys!

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

@TagaParti ,

I'm impressed by the length and time put into this post but to me it's one giant troll post.

- If you want this game run by no one but ZoS and don't want to play other player's game... what if what ZoS wants, in running this game, is to listen to players on how to develop the game? They might want feedback? Do you think it's a good idea in general for a company that supplies an ongoing and constantly developing product to get feedback from their customers?

- If I'm understanding you correctly, even though you say they listen too much, you imply they shouldn't listen at all, so why should they listen to you?

- If they should listen, but not as "much" what should they listen to and what should they cut? Should they just listen to you and not me? Thanks a lot bud!

- If there are specific issues that they are listening too much too in your opinion why not say what they are listening too much to and offer up some reason why? With out doing that this is just hot air and has gotten way too much attention.

Moderator should have edited out way more of it for trolling.

Robbmrp wrote: »

The best thing ZOS could do is to resolve the lag issue. That alone will satisfy everyone. Once that's done then work on the bugs that are stopping/impeding progress. Stop wasting time nerfing this or that and fix the core problems of the game imo.

While I agree that solving the Cyodiil performance problems should be a priority, my feeling is that it is largely as resolved as it will ever be. (Note: I no longer think this) If you are unhappy with performance, you should either come to terms with it or find another game to play.

If it was possible for them to fix it with something more substantial than removing critters, animals, and insects, they would have done it by now.

Sylvyr wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

The best thing ZOS could do is to resolve the lag issue. That alone will satisfy everyone. Once that's done then work on the bugs that are stopping/impeding progress. Stop wasting time nerfing this or that and fix the core problems of the game imo.

While I agree that solving the Cyodiil performance problems should be a priority, my feeling is that it is largely as resolved as it will ever be. If you are unhappy with performance, you should either come to terms with it or find another game to play.

If it was possible for them to fix it with something more substantial than removing critters, animals, and insects, they would have done it by now.

Unless they do know it's in the code pretty deep and/or in lots of places and are simply using stop gap measures to try to alleviate things before they can put time in to fix it. At least that is what I am hoping. They might not have enough time given their total to-do list. But it's wierd that they have a PVP specific employee.... they might be taking him off his primary role and using him elsewhere. They should at LEAST put in enough hours to find the issue. Even though it sucks I'd personally rather hear that they have found it but will need more time to fix it than hear "we're working on it" as a generic message which gives me not a lot of hope.

They got rid of deer and fireflies and limited the pop cap. I haven't heard anything more about it since.

You all realize we're posting up lots of replies about game state on a thread that is based on the OP's discontentment of ZoS listening too much to community concerns... right?

Seraphyel wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

But you know what about GW2? It saw almost no content for 2 years. ESO delivered lots in only a half. Sure yes, ESO has flaws, so do every game in the entire history of MMOs. But they have fixed MANY bugs over the time since launch, especially many of the gamebreaking ones. Denying that is sheer ignorance, and quite arrogance too.

As for Roleplayers not being core players. I'll ask you to take a look at a game like LOTRO or DCUO, because I can tell you that you'll find the majority of them being roleplayers. Roleplayers can also do PvE and PvP to their hearts content, but by heart they are roleplayers, and enjoy roleplaying in the games universe. Said people don't go to the forums and shout for ability nerfs, or shout for new content every seventh week. No, these people are the ones who're in the game, enjoying it and getting the full immersive experience of acting out their characters daily lives in the wonderful world of Tamriel.

When you PvE'ers and PvP'ers decide to quit, we're the ones who're carrying the standard to the finishline. Because not only do we enjoy our time, and the time our characters has. But we also enjoy the game for what it is, instead of spending the majority of our time whining on the forums.

Zenimax is doing much for the roleplaying community, they announce almost every event which is easy accessible on the RP forums. They are great, and have a giant array of emotes for us to use. The only thing we need then is the world and our characters, the latter of which we players design ourselves. Oh and the world? Yeah, there is lots of those to choose from.

What did ESO deliver? Craglorn? Wow, that's really much content for +++ $100 sub fees and 12 months.

GW2 has gotten not that much content but still enough and not less than ESO - and remember, all of that for free.

What have LOTRO & DCUO roleplayers to do with ESO? LOTRO is rich of lore and filled with roleplaying things, ESO isn't. That's the thing. It's not about announcing events, it's about the tools the game gives you to make roleplay and ESOs tools are little.

Don't forget several veteran dungeons, 3 raids, dragonstar arena (and vet dsa which is awesomely fun), a full on dye system, the champion system of longterm alternate progression, the justice system which should be great once the pvp part is implemented, and other major improvements/additions. Although that wouldn't suit your argument very well, I suppose... .

Aneima wrote: »

For me personally I'm about ready to quit playing online games altogether and the reason why is 100% the people that are constantly asking for nerfs. I swear those people are ruining online gaming.

I agree I wish for once they would stop listening to the few that end up ruining the games.