Zenimax if you gave rewarding content people would not grind exp...

Troneon · March 2015

Seriously. Why do you think there are people grinding and finding any way to get exp in your game? Because your rewards suck. I am not a grinder , I hate repeating content over and over but I understand why players getting frustrated with you.

You lack enough rewarding solo / group end game content that rewards good amounts of exp.

If your content already in the game like dungeons /trails or made repeatable solo / group quests at VR14 and PVP more rewarding for exp, then people WOULD PLAY EVERYTHING IN YOUR GAME! People would not feel the need to find the "best grind spot for exp!11!!!" because they would not need to.

It would bring a bit of life to content not usually played as much and people would play all parts of the game, not stick to just one only and grind over and over repeating the same thing because thats the best way to get exp....

I fail to see how this conclusion escapes you?

It would even buy you some time and lengthen the content you already have while we wait for new expansions / content in 6+ months etc?

I fail to see a downside to this? Give exp reward boosts not to mobs, but to end rewards for trails / dungeons / pvp quests / repeatable solo and group quests.

Valnas · March 2015

it's insulting to be asked to play the same content again a year in. and then be told were going to fast.

ZoM_Head · March 2015

Troneon wrote: »

Seriously. Why do you think there are people grinding and finding any way to get exp in your game? Because your rewards suck. I am not a grinder , I hate repeating content over and over but I understand why players getting frustrated with you.

You lack enough rewarding solo / group end game content that rewards good amounts of exp.

If your content already in the game like dungeons /trails or made repeatable solo / group quests at VR14 and PVP more rewarding for exp, then people WOULD PLAY EVERYTHING IN YOUR GAME! People would not feel the need to find the "best grind spot for exp!11!!!" because they would not need to.

It would bring a bit of life to content not usually played as much and people would play all parts of the game, not stick to just one only and grind over and over repeating the same thing because thats the best way to get exp....

I fail to see how this conclusion escapes you?

It would even buy you some time and lengthen the content you already have while we wait for new expansions / content in 6+ months etc?

I fail to see a downside to this? Give exp reward boosts not to mobs, but to end rewards for trails / dungeons / pvp quests / repeatable solo and group quests.

I have 3 VR14s that did everything pve wise the game has to offer.

I have nothing to do but craglorn dailies and undaunted/writs.

I spend 12+ hours in game and finish those dailies pretty quick.

So...now what am i supposed to do? i do nto pvp due to massive performance issues.

b_archaonpreeb18_ESO · March 2015

Either go for a fourth character, or do Cyrodiil pve quests. The lag is not an issue if you stay away from the action. Of course, you can be ambushed by other players doing the same (or ambush them. Duel time!) but it's usually 1v1. No lag either.

Xexpo · March 2015

Dear ZOS,
No one will play when it sucks beyond diehard comprehension.
Please stop for the love of god.

Troneon · March 2015

kaer426 wrote: »

Dear ZOS,
No one will play when it sucks beyond diehard comprehension.
Please stop for the love of god.

Truth.

Alphashado · March 2015

Here it is in a nutshell:

If group dungeons and Cyrodiil gave half as much XP as grinding, the LFG que would be overflowing with people eagerly repeating their dungeons, and Cyrodiil would be population capped to the point where they would actually have to create more campaigns.

Endlessly nerfing grind spots is NOT incentive to repeat old content.
Making old content WORTHWHILE would be.

Troneon · March 2015

Alphashado wrote: »

Here it is in a nutshell:

If group dungeons and Cyrodiil gave half as much XP as grinding, the LFG que would be overflowing with people eagerly repeating their dungeons, and Cyrodiil would be population capped to the point where they would actually have to create more campaigns.

Endlessly nerfing grind spots is NOT incentive to repeat old content.
Making old content WORTHWHILE would be.

If the LFG tool actually worked LMAO :P

firstdecan · March 2015

Nothing much to add, other than "Well Stated" and "I Agree" (which I clicked on for several people in this post.

Simply posting a written response in the hopes this thread will garner many more agrees.

TehMagnus · March 2015

If the had given NEW content as promised...

vladimilianoub17_ESO1 · March 2015

Troneon wrote: »

Seriously. Why do you think there are people grinding and finding any way to get exp in your game? Because your rewards suck. I am not a grinder , I hate repeating content over and over but I understand why players getting frustrated with you.

You lack enough rewarding solo / group end game content that rewards good amounts of exp.

If your content already in the game like dungeons /trails or made repeatable solo / group quests at VR14 and PVP more rewarding for exp, then people WOULD PLAY EVERYTHING IN YOUR GAME! People would not feel the need to find the "best grind spot for exp!11!!!" because they would not need to.

It would bring a bit of life to content not usually played as much and people would play all parts of the game, not stick to just one only and grind over and over repeating the same thing because thats the best way to get exp....

I fail to see how this conclusion escapes you?

It would even buy you some time and lengthen the content you already have while we wait for new expansions / content in 6+ months etc?

I fail to see a downside to this? Give exp reward boosts not to mobs, but to end rewards for trails / dungeons / pvp quests / repeatable solo and group quests.

I think this is pretty true.You nailed.

Scamandros · March 2015

Agreed that most things should be made more rewarding and would solve alot of current issues.
On the point of grinding I don't see it as being that bad

Allowing grinding in instanced areas like skyreach, where you aren't interfering with others, allows current/newer players to more swiftly close the stat gap in the champion system until they are roughly on par or "close enough" to the rest of the playerbase that they can perform adequately in all competitive content. Diminishing returns in champion point spending should ensure that after X amount of points earnt grinding further will simply not be worth the time anymore, again helping the lower players close the stat gap regardless of whether they choose to grind or quest normally.
With grinding everyone can get back to doing their preferred competitive endgame content faster without being disadvantaged by how long they've played for.

If you like doing every quest, world boss, dolmen etc then keep doing what you're doing, everyone should do what they love. If you're into competitive pvp or pve, then you won't need to endlessly grind CP everyday to stay competitive for tomorrow if everyone in your community is already at a point of heavy diminishing returns from grinding.

I'd prefer to not have to level anything else, but at this point we are somewhat stuck with it.

Messy1 · March 2015

Does anyone think this game would still be subscription based if it hadn't had so many technical issues in the beginning and that it has had?

If I were ZOS I would print out all of the angry forum posts and slap it down on some account executives desk then ask for free reign to develop a fun game and worry about the financial part later. Don't get me wrong the game IS FUN, but some people are on the tipping point and have been for a long time.

Costismaros · March 2015

We were killing world bosses (thats was really normal). They cut exp from all bosses in the tamriel.
We were doing Public duangeon for exp (that was really normal). They cut exp from all *** duangeons.
We were doing Delves for exp (that was really normal). They cut exp from everythink.

This aint logic.

Exstazik · March 2015

i think achievements should be rewarded with CP.Every 20 achievement points =1 CP

Xelphos · March 2015

Agreed.

Dungeons, Trails, and any repeatable VR content really, should give a lot more XP than 12k

Vis · March 2015

ZoM_Head wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

Seriously. Why do you think there are people grinding and finding any way to get exp in your game? Because your rewards suck. I am not a grinder , I hate repeating content over and over but I understand why players getting frustrated with you.

You lack enough rewarding solo / group end game content that rewards good amounts of exp.

If your content already in the game like dungeons /trails or made repeatable solo / group quests at VR14 and PVP more rewarding for exp, then people WOULD PLAY EVERYTHING IN YOUR GAME! People would not feel the need to find the "best grind spot for exp!11!!!" because they would not need to.

It would bring a bit of life to content not usually played as much and people would play all parts of the game, not stick to just one only and grind over and over repeating the same thing because thats the best way to get exp....

I fail to see how this conclusion escapes you?

It would even buy you some time and lengthen the content you already have while we wait for new expansions / content in 6+ months etc?

I fail to see a downside to this? Give exp reward boosts not to mobs, but to end rewards for trails / dungeons / pvp quests / repeatable solo and group quests.

I have 3 VR14s that did everything pve wise the game has to offer.

I have nothing to do but craglorn dailies and undaunted/writs.

I spend 12+ hours in game and finish those dailies pretty quick.

So...now what am i supposed to do? i do nto pvp due to massive performance issues.

Yikes. I don't think ZOS ever built the game with people who play 12 hours a day in mind. Don't take it as an insult. Just saying you are in the vast vast minority, and because you are currently paying about the same as anyone else. You just won't be that big of a priority.

Xelphos · March 2015

Vis wrote: »

ZoM_Head wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

Seriously. Why do you think there are people grinding and finding any way to get exp in your game? Because your rewards suck. I am not a grinder , I hate repeating content over and over but I understand why players getting frustrated with you.

You lack enough rewarding solo / group end game content that rewards good amounts of exp.

If your content already in the game like dungeons /trails or made repeatable solo / group quests at VR14 and PVP more rewarding for exp, then people WOULD PLAY EVERYTHING IN YOUR GAME! People would not feel the need to find the "best grind spot for exp!11!!!" because they would not need to.

It would bring a bit of life to content not usually played as much and people would play all parts of the game, not stick to just one only and grind over and over repeating the same thing because thats the best way to get exp....

I fail to see how this conclusion escapes you?

It would even buy you some time and lengthen the content you already have while we wait for new expansions / content in 6+ months etc?

I fail to see a downside to this? Give exp reward boosts not to mobs, but to end rewards for trails / dungeons / pvp quests / repeatable solo and group quests.

I have 3 VR14s that did everything pve wise the game has to offer.

I have nothing to do but craglorn dailies and undaunted/writs.

I spend 12+ hours in game and finish those dailies pretty quick.

So...now what am i supposed to do? i do nto pvp due to massive performance issues.

Yikes. I don't think ZOS ever built the game with people who play 12 hours a day in mind. Don't take it as an insult, just saying you are in the vast vast minority, and because you are currently paying about the same as anyone else, you just won't be that big of a priority.

Uhm... game has been out for a year, there are people who play 4 hours a day who have everything in the game completed, what about them?

McDoogs · March 2015

Alphashado wrote: »

Here it is in a nutshell:

If group dungeons and Cyrodiil gave half as much XP as grinding, the LFG que would be overflowing with people eagerly repeating their dungeons, and Cyrodiil would be population capped to the point where they would actually have to create more campaigns.

Endlessly nerfing grind spots is NOT incentive to repeat old content.
Making old content WORTHWHILE would be.

Doing old content is a grind too.

golfer.dub17_ESO · March 2015

People would grind anyways, and to be frank that's perfectly fine. I don't understand why they nerfed grinding into the ground.

Not everyone cares about questing, or at the very least not everyone cares about the quests when they are doing them on their second and so on character.

Though I agree that quests and such should give more xp.

If group dungeons and Cyrodiil gave half as much XP as grinding, the LFG que would be overflowing with people eagerly repeating their dungeons, and Cyrodiil would be population capped to the point where they would actually have to create more campaigns.

In my experience Thornblade is the only populated campaign (I've had times where I've been 109th in the queue to get in...), while every other campaign is completely dead. I really don't see that happening, the game already has several empty campaigns.

Roechacca · March 2015

I have no idea how this concept constantly eludes them . New systems are not new content .

Sacadon · March 2015

You really think that they don't know this?

I don't like it either, but to assume they don't get it when we only see a fraction of what's really going on is also not too smart.

Roechacca · March 2015

Sacadon wrote: »

You really think that they don't know this?

I don't like it either, but to assume they don't get it when we only see a fraction of what's really going on is also not too smart.

I'm really hoping they don't get it . To say they do and make the wrong move anyways is saying their completely incompetent . Is that what you're saying ?

Sacadon · March 2015

roechacca wrote: »

Sacadon wrote: »

You really think that they don't know this?

I don't like it either, but to assume they don't get it when we only see a fraction of what's really going on is also not too smart.

I'm really hoping they don't get it . To say they do and make the wrong move anyways is saying their completely incompetent . Is that what you're saying ?

I'm saying that I think that they've intentionally been feeding us what we want very slowly since it went live to try and appease/placate as much as they can afford to. Specifically because they're treading water at best trying to correct a significantly flawed game design (mostly progression & balance, but also performance) and hoping like hell the truth doesn't get out until they've had a chance to straighten it out. I think they know the loudest group of people they can afford to loose are PvPers and why they have neglected PvP to an extreme sense since go live. If these people go away they're more likely to move on and stop rocking the boat per se. Whereas the PvE group is more dedicated because of lore, Skyrim etc... which is their focus IMO based on their actions continually reinforcing that.

Agreed the loot table is a joke for anything other than undaunted, vet dungeons and maybe trials... Another example of doing the bare minimum while they fix their mess.

Firor and Sage have tons of game industry experience and would have to be full-on frowner status, riding the short-bus and all in order to not get some of these fundamentals. This tells me there is a different thing happening.

IMO, update 6 plus console release, even with it's flaws is really what ZOS wanted to release when they went live and we've been keeping the ship afloat so to speak for them while they catch-up.

EDIT: IRL, I advise companies on how to improve their business. So I get to see behind the curtain a lot. And it's both sad and scary stuff, but more often than not it makes sense once you have most of the information. Running a business is always busy when your on the sideline too.

Snit · March 2015

All repeated PvE content is a grind.

Whether it's dailies, grinding spellscar or your 27th run through Veteran Banished Cells, it's all repeated content which you grind. That's a fact of life in MMO's, where the economics don't support anything else. You can pick which type of repeated content you prefer, but it's a limited menu.

The only content that is always at least somewhat novel can be found in PvP.

Alphashado · March 2015

McDoogs wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Here it is in a nutshell:

If group dungeons and Cyrodiil gave half as much XP as grinding, the LFG que would be overflowing with people eagerly repeating their dungeons, and Cyrodiil would be population capped to the point where they would actually have to create more campaigns.

Endlessly nerfing grind spots is NOT incentive to repeat old content.
Making old content WORTHWHILE would be.

Doing old content is a grind too.

Dungeons and PVP zones are designed to be appealing by most other successful MMOs. There isn't much appeal to repeating a dungeon that awards 11k XP once per day when you can get that grinding in less than 5 mins. Same thing applies to Cyrodiil.

Instead of trying to FORCE people into old content by nerfing every grind spot, they they should raise the XP of dungeons and PVP in order to make it equally or more appealing.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

Emma_Overload · March 2015

Troneon wrote: »

It would bring a bit of life to content not usually played as much

^^^THIS^^^

There are so many many delves and group dungeons I would love to play again and again, but I can't because they aren't scaled to my level and have no XP.

This would be such an easy thing for ZoS to fix, because no new assets would be required. Why don't they do it?

Troneon · March 2015

roechacca wrote: »

I have no idea how this concept constantly eludes them . New systems are not new content .

This is another issue too, they release a patch but really it's just adding on new systems of fluff that either should of already been in the game or is already in the game and has just been tweaked to be slightly different.

Troneon · March 2015

Troneon wrote: »

Seriously. Why do you think there are people grinding and finding any way to get exp in your game? Because your rewards suck. I am not a grinder , I hate repeating content over and over but I understand why players getting frustrated with you.

You lack enough rewarding solo / group end game content that rewards good amounts of exp.

If your content already in the game like dungeons /trails or made repeatable solo / group quests at VR14 and PVP more rewarding for exp, then people WOULD PLAY EVERYTHING IN YOUR GAME! People would not feel the need to find the "best grind spot for exp!11!!!" because they would not need to.

It would bring a bit of life to content not usually played as much and people would play all parts of the game, not stick to just one only and grind over and over repeating the same thing because thats the best way to get exp....

I fail to see how this conclusion escapes you?

It would even buy you some time and lengthen the content you already have while we wait for new expansions / content in 6+ months etc?

I fail to see a downside to this? Give exp reward boosts not to mobs, but to end rewards for trails / dungeons / pvp quests / repeatable solo and group quests.

Any chance of a dev response?