Friendly Fire

OrangeTheCat · June 2014

It seems to me that many problems (aka exploits) in PvP would simply go away if friendly fire was possible. The "aoe train" (or whatever you all are calling it) and the flaming oil "exploit" come immediately to mind.

Yes, the howl of nerd rage would be heard across the known universe if friendly fire were enabled, but think of the possibilities:

No more shooting fire ballistas into a melee.

No more standing in friendly siege impacts just to mark where you want your raid to shoot.

No more aoe trains.

No more oil being poured on a melee or across a flat surface (because you are standing in the fire too).

Etc.

Plenty of online games enable friendly fire. We can too.

Nox_Aeterna · June 2014

Nope , i atleast would not like that , friendly fire also adds problem , i for one would first try to go back and behead the person who killed me which would probably lead to killing innocent folk since it would be hard to guess who exactly was responsible.

If we dont consider other people like me who will hold it against the killers and hunt them , we can also consider that fact that there are plenty of trolls or even people from other factions that could join yours and mess up pretty badly the whole thing.

OrangeTheCat · June 2014

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Nope , i atleast would not like that , friendly fire also adds problem , i for one would first try to go back and behead the person who killed me which would probably lead to killing innocent folk since it would be hard to guess who exactly was responsible.

If we dont consider other people like me who will hold it against the killers and hunt them , we can also consider that fact that there are plenty of trolls or even people from other factions that could join yours and mess up pretty badly the whole thing.

That sounds like your problem.

So introduce penalties for killing too many friendly players. That might inhibit players like you. If that fails, there is always therapy.

Sihnfahl · June 2014

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

So introduce penalties for killing too many friendly players. That might inhibit players like you. If that fails, there is always therapy.

So instead of trolls being the ones who shoot AoE, they're the ones who stand in AoE to kick folks out of Cyrodiil.

Don't like the Emperor? Run into their AoE train en masse and get them banned from Cyrodiil.

Nox_Aeterna · June 2014

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Nope , i atleast would not like that , friendly fire also adds problem , i for one would first try to go back and behead the person who killed me which would probably lead to killing innocent folk since it would be hard to guess who exactly was responsible.

If we dont consider other people like me who will hold it against the killers and hunt them , we can also consider that fact that there are plenty of trolls or even people from other factions that could join yours and mess up pretty badly the whole thing.

That sounds like your problem.

So introduce penalties for killing too many friendly players. That might inhibit players like you. If that fails, there is always therapy.

Mate , i seek revenge on the ones that killed me , right now it is the enemy factions , if it becomes my faction , then i will hunt them just the same.

Still i admit , probably works better in fps games where i can be sure to kill the right person , but oh well , guess quantity will have to do for selectivity.

OrangeTheCat · June 2014

No aoe train to run in to. But even if there were, with great power comes great responsibility. If you are going to fire off that aoe it is your responsibility to ensure friendlies are not around. Like I said, plenty of other online games have friendly fire turned on.

nukeyoo · June 2014

I would like this only because it would allow me to kill the people that think its a good idea.

InvictoNZ · June 2014

I agree with friendly fire.

But it doesn't mean the end to AoE. It just means the bad players will die to friendlies. Good players will change their gear to 1 high resist, and use that damage type to AoE with.

There is usually a counter to every attack (in most good games).

quakedawg_ESO · June 2014

Good god. Gee, nobody would ever troll this feature. Online games are full of the most honorable humans on the planet. Right?

Would not work in this type of game and will never be considered.

Kiljaz · June 2014

This would be funny but bad at the same time. You'd have to have negative AP for killing your own people or a lot of people wouldnt care who they killed on their side.

Then you'll get the guilds who make alts on opposing factions and say 'Ok, we're taking AD keeps.' Half the guild logs AD chars and kills off the defenders on the inside while their guild attacks from the outside.

Then you get the trolls who just like to be as annoying as possible... You know how that will go. You'll have troll groups at waypoints and starting areas.

Yasha · June 2014

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

No aoe train to run in to. But even if there were, with great power comes great responsibility. If you are going to fire off that aoe it is your responsibility to ensure friendlies are not around. Like I said, plenty of other online games have friendly fire turned on.

have you played other online games with friendly fire? If so how did they resolve some of the issues others in this thread have mentioned?

RedTalon · June 2014

Friendly fire would be a nice option, but would also cause more problems you think dk traitors are bad with them chain pulling people onto walls now, now you can kill your own team and make more openings.

Affrayer · June 2014

Sihnfahl wrote: »

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

So introduce penalties for killing too many friendly players. That might inhibit players like you. If that fails, there is always therapy.

So instead of trolls being the ones who shoot AoE, they're the ones who stand in AoE to kick folks out of Cyrodiil.

Don't like the Emperor? Run into their AoE train en masse and get them banned from Cyrodiil.

Shhhhhh. You're making too much sense...

*

There's no way friendly fire will be added to eso. It would cause more problems than what already exists.

Dleatherus · June 2014

Yasha wrote: »

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

No aoe train to run in to. But even if there were, with great power comes great responsibility. If you are going to fire off that aoe it is your responsibility to ensure friendlies are not around. Like I said, plenty of other online games have friendly fire turned on.

have you played other online games with friendly fire? If so how did they resolve some of the issues others in this thread have mentioned?

the games i've played with friendly fire - Ultima Online (was a Dread Lord), EVE Online (was a pirate ganking folks), Darkfall I & II

in those games the players form their own 'coalitions/alliances' and the politics is insanely fun - lot of betrayals etc - all within the spirit of those games and how they are set up - those that betray you are swiftly dealt with, become known as traitors and are KoS (Kill on Sight) - chaotic as this might sound it's self-regulating by the players themselves and great fun

friendly fire would not work in AvAvA due to the nature that if there is an imbalance in the game, the two underdog alliances team up against the big dog

the opportunity for rampant abuse would be even greater than what the emperor farmers are doing now which in essence is using unintended game mechanics, betraying their own faction so that the 'legit' players in that faction are now having to be A+A+Avs'legit players'

- though i'd like to slit a few of their throats - in game of course

having friendly fire would mean doing away with the three alliances, and with that being the whole foundation of the war in cyrodiil it will not be likely to happen

hope this helps explain the basic concepts

D.

OrangeTheCat · June 2014

Yasha wrote: »

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

No aoe train to run in to. But even if there were, with great power comes great responsibility. If you are going to fire off that aoe it is your responsibility to ensure friendlies are not around. Like I said, plenty of other online games have friendly fire turned on.

have you played other online games with friendly fire? If so how did they resolve some of the issues others in this thread have mentioned?

PlanetSide2 (three factions and guild-like organizations) and World of Tanks (guild-like organizations) come immediately to mind as I currently play those. A combination of penalties (point loss, money loss, etc), shaming (TK statistics, player's name is highlighted, or some other visual marker), temporary bans, and in extreme cases lengthy bans.

Given sufficient penalties, TKing is mostly an occasional annoyance. It is funny how people here immediately gravitate to the worse case scenario imaginable and implicitly assert nothing else in the game changes to counter argue. I am not suggesting friendly fire be enabled and absolutely nothing else changes. Clearly, other things would have to be enabled to discourage TKing.

Gundorf_GA · June 2014

The combat in this game does not lend itself to friendly fire. It would be an unmitigated disaster. The targeting is way too loose. It's hard enough to stay on one enemy target in a melee. If I had to also worry about my friends accidentally stepping in front of my spell? No way. Not to mention all of the cone and splash abilities and abilities that hurt enemies but buff allies.

It will never happen. No point wasting bandwidth discussing it.

OrangeTheCat · June 2014

Gundorf_GA wrote: »

The combat in this game does not lend itself to friendly fire. It would be an unmitigated disaster. The targeting is way too loose. It's hard enough to stay on one enemy target in a melee. If I had to also worry about my friends accidentally stepping in front of my spell? No way. Not to mention all of the cone and splash abilities and abilities that hurt enemies but buff allies.

It will never happen. No point wasting bandwidth discussing it.

Both PlanetSide2 and WoT (the two I happened to mention, you can add to the list) are MMO-like: classes, leveling, grinding for gear/currency, progression.

Regarding targeting, PlanetSide2 does not have targeting at all; it doesn't get any more "loose" than that. If a friendly steps in front of you while you are firing, you hit them. Period. Yet friendly fire and the systems built around it work just fine.

Calling it an "unmitigated disaster" may sound great, but it is a bit of an exaggeration to say the least.

Jaxom · June 2014

Friendly fire would accelerate Emperor farming and make endgame PvE unplayable. I suppose you can make friendly fire a Cyrodiil thing only, somehow I feel like they would screw up the code and it apply to PvE anyway.

As for emperor farming, you would now have the people trying to flip keeps with the enemy, the power to kill those actually defending. You wont know who is your friend and who is just trying to help an emeny faction flip keeps faster. That would be the nail in the coffen for many people.

OrangeTheCat · June 2014

Jaxom wrote: »

Friendly fire would accelerate Emperor farming and make endgame PvE unplayable. I suppose you can make friendly fire a Cyrodiil thing only, somehow I feel like they would screw up the code and it apply to PvE anyway.

As for emperor farming, you would now have the people trying to flip keeps with the enemy, the power to kill those actually defending. You wont know who is your friend and who is just trying to help an emeny faction flip keeps faster. That would be the nail in the coffen for many people.

In the other games I mention there are similar temptations and people who do like you suggest find themselves banned pretty quickly.

OrangeTheCat · June 2014

But like many of you said, this will never happen. I think the reason why we will never see this is not because it isn't a doable idea, but rather because ZOS is not a risk-taking organization. They seem to prefer quick and easy fixes to issues. Friendly fire is not a quick and easy fix.

Jaxom · June 2014

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

Jaxom wrote: »

Friendly fire would accelerate Emperor farming and make endgame PvE unplayable. I suppose you can make friendly fire a Cyrodiil thing only, somehow I feel like they would screw up the code and it apply to PvE anyway.

As for emperor farming, you would now have the people trying to flip keeps with the enemy, the power to kill those actually defending. You wont know who is your friend and who is just trying to help an emeny faction flip keeps faster. That would be the nail in the coffen for many people.

In the other games I mention there are similar temptations and people who do like you suggest find themselves banned pretty quickly.

Understood and agreed. It would be a nice touch and make Cyrodiil that much more interesting. I just dont see how they could implement it without breaking the game.

ngiannakas · August 2014

I am pro friendly fire not being friendly, or at least manage the 50 people in the space of 1 that all spam AoE that is unatural and illogical

Artemiisia · August 2014

for crying out load, stop making these threads, there are like 20 of them, now just with clever ways of saying it different.

if you dont like zergs, play Candy Crush

prototypefb · March 2015

i'd like there to be friendly fire, with restrictions tho:
only apply tier 2+ AOE - no primary 6 target effect but only reduced dmg, that would be fair and wouldn't stop from using aoe ocasionally but would further spread out zergs/trains, therefore massively increased fun and hopefully decreased overall lag.

Sorry for necroing this thread but it was 1st on the list within my keyword search.
Feel free to read(and note as awesome idea) and close thread ^^

Panda244 · March 2015

I'm up for it, so long as I can light attack my allies to gain ultimate!

Sphinx2318 · March 2015

friendly fire? HAHAHA!!! there are sooo many allied peeps i wanna kill... my fire would definitely NOT be so "friendly"

JDar · March 2015

This would be absolute chaos. But as a Chaotic Good player, I like it.

Draxys · March 2015

anyone with the intelligence of a doorknob knows that this would be disastrous

DisgracefulMind · March 2015

Um, yeah, no.

NotSo · January 2016

requesting a test pvp server be opened for this.

Psilent · January 2016

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

It seems to me that many problems (aka exploits) in PvP would simply go away if friendly fire was possible. The "aoe train" (or whatever you all are calling it) and the flaming oil "exploit" come immediately to mind.

Yes, the howl of nerd rage would be heard across the known universe if friendly fire were enabled, but think of the possibilities:

No more shooting fire ballistas into a melee.

No more standing in friendly siege impacts just to mark where you want your raid to shoot.

No more aoe trains.

No more oil being poured on a melee or across a flat surface (because you are standing in the fire too).

Etc.

Plenty of online games enable friendly fire. We can too.

No