Brandalf wrote: »

You say goodbye while I say hello to the Sorc class.

Fixed that for you.

exiledtyrant wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Stamina Sorc is totally gimped though! Yes, every class can do good DPS just spamming Wrecking Blow, but think about what the 1.5 stam sorc had and think about what the 1.6 stam sorc has.... 1.5 stam Sorc had 10% cost reduction on some of the best spells they use (surge, lightning form, bolt escape) as well as the one true real advantage of a stam sorc - THE HIGHEST WEAPON DMG IN GAME! That last thing there was the whole reason to be a stamina sorc. You could stack weapon dmg to levels that other classes could not. Now, with Rally >>> Crit Surge, there is no more advantage and we also lost the 10% cost reduction. In addition, all other classes gained stamina morphs that are useful while the Sorc only got a 2 slot taking up toggle that does no direect damage itself. I don't even count dark deal, as it is useless to channel with a melee character.

DK changes that affect stamina builds

Searing Strike

Unstable Flames (morph): This ability now scales off Stamina and Attack Power and costs Stamina. Damage is mitigated by your target’s melee defense statistics.

Fiery Breath

Burning Breath (morph): This ability will now scale off of stamina and weapon power, and is mitigated by your target’s melee defense statistics. This ability now applies the Major Fracture debuff to your target.

Inferno

Flames of Oblivion (morph): This ability now provides the same effect as Inferno, as well as providing the Major Savagery (that is weapon crit) buff while active.

Molten Weapons

This ability will no longer buff allies. Instead, activating Molten Weapons will increase your heavy attack damage by 40% for 7 seconds. The duration increases with each additional rank.

Igneous Weapons (morph): Using a heavy attack while this ability is active will increase its duration by one second.

Molten Armaments (morph): This ability now increases the extra damage against low health targets.

Slightly reduced the cost of Molten Weapons and its morphs.

Earthen Heart

Mountain’s Blessing: This passive now also grants all allies within 30 meters the buff Minor Brutality for 10 seconds at Rank I, or 20 seconds at Rank II.

NB changes that affect stamina builds

Assassins Blade

Killer’s Blade (morph): This is now a stamina-based ability. The heal from this ability will now be applied if your target dies within 2 seconds of the ability being used, regardless of who killed the target.

Teleport Strike

Ambush: This ability now uses stamina instead of magicka, and applies the Minor Berserk buff on the next attack.

Mark Target

This ability now grants the Major Breach and Major Fracture buffs.
Removed the penalty from this ability.
This ability can now be cast on any target.
Reduced the cost of this ability by approximately 50%, and reduced the duration to 20 seconds.
Piercing Mark (morph): The duration of this ability now scales with ability ranks up to a maximum of 30 seconds.
Reaper’s Mark (morph): This ability now grants the Major Berserk buff for 8 seconds after the target is killed.

Veiled Strike

Surprise Attack (morph): This morph is now a stamina-based ability, now applies the Major Fracture debuff, and will no longer reduce your target’s armor if they dodge the initial attack.

Drain Power

The damage caused by Drain Power no longer scales with the number of targets hit. Instead, you will receive a Major Brutality buff when damaging at least one target.
Power Extraction (morph): This ability now scales off weapon damage and stamina instead of magicka and spell damage. The damage has also been increased by 10%.

Templar changes that affect stamina builds

Puncturing Strikes

Biting Jabs (morph): This ability now scales off stamina and weapon power, and now also provides the Major Savagery buff.

Piercing Javelin

Binding Javelin (morph): This ability now scales off stamina and weapon power.

Backlash

Power of Light (morph): This ability now applies the Minor Fracture debuff to your target, and the damage caps are derived from your maximum stamina.

Aedric Spear

Burning Light: The damage from this passive is now derived from your highest stats (stamina or magicka based).

Aedric Spear

Balance Warrior: Increased the weapon damage from this passive to 3% at Rank I, and 6% at Rank II.

Sorc changes that affect stamina builds

Bound Armor

Bound Armaments (morph): This ability now costs Stamina instead of Magicka, gives you a bonus to stamina instead of magicka, and increases the damage done by heavy attacks.

Dark Exchange

Dark Deal (morph): This ability now converts magicka into health and stamina.

Overload

Overload and Power Overload will now properly scale their damage off Weapon Damage and Stamina in the event that they are higher than Spell Power and Magicka.

If you read through all of the above lists, you may have noticed that DK got 2 attacks scaled on stamina and various stamina build buffs, NB got 4 attacks scaled on stamina and various stamina build buffs, Templar got 3 attacks scaled on stamina and various stamina build buffs, while the Sorc got only ONE ultimate and zero basic attacks scaled on stamina and only one stamina buff that comes in the form of near useless toggle. Bound Armaments may find its way into some builds for sure, but it is tough to stomach using 2 slots for it. Dark Deal is totally and completely useless. There is no use for a channel in melee range without a way to quickly create distance. As for the Overload change, I think all ultimates should scale on stamina+weap or magicka + spell anyways and I'm surprised any class ultimates are forcing people to go into a magicka spec. Overall I am very underwhelmed with what was offered to the stamina sorc.

Sorcerers should still get the highest weapon damage because the 8% stamina boost for bound armor is not available anywhere else from bound armor. A 31 point stamina sorcerer who uses a stamina racial class should see an even bigger effect. They will start off with about 130 more weapon damage in stamina stats and the gap will only get bigger as they gear up and invest more points into the dex champion line. You only stack so much weapon damage, but stamina has much more room to grow with the CP system. Stamina sorc also have the highest stam reduction possible. Dark deal heals for about 50% of your max stamina and health over 4 seconds it has to have a weakness somewhere. Sorc did not get fancy attack morphs but they should have more possible spell damage and overall physical damage.

That is a good point that I hadn't considered, but we also have to consider opportunity costs for getting that 8% stamina. Templars got 6% weapon damage as a passive, and while eventually with enough stamina, 8% stamina >>> 6% weapon damage, you need to look at it in the light that maybe the Templar can fit Evil Hunter on both bars then while the Sorc can't or something similar. I know the PVP stamina specs I've been messing around with have no room for Bound Armaments.

Either way, Sorc absolutely needs a damage dealing stamina ability and also a stam regen IMO. These are my suggestions from my other thread....

1. Add Major Endurance buff to Critical Surge morph. Right now all Critical Surge grants over Power Surge is 10% health returns from a crit. Sorc needs better stamina management and this is a perfect place for it. It also gives a stamina Sorc a reason to use Crit Surge over Rally. Right now, Rally is superior to Crit Surge in almost every way. Critical Surge lasts for 20 seconds, and I think Major Endurance should only last for the first 12 of those 20 seconds. Right now my Sorc on PTS has 760 stam regen, but I have more weapon dmg and crit rating set bonuses than stam regen ones, so let's just assume I can easily get to 1000 stam regen. Major Endurance for 12 seconds would result in 1800 additional stamina over that time frame. That sounds reasonable and far from overpowering to me, but makes Crit Surge use over Rally worth it.

2. Change Crystal Blast into a stamina morph (1 sec cast that also has a 35% chance to instant proc on stamina ability usage) that is a melee range Crystal Frag but also provides the Minor Brutality buff to the Sorc and their group. Sorc needs more group buffs and Minor Brutality is an underused buff right now. It should hit for around 2/3 as hard as a Crystal Frag (in a magicka spec) to compensate for the additional buff. This could also be turned into a 5 second duration dot if burst dmg is a concern and considering how often it should proc, 5 seconds sounds about right for the group Minor Brutality buff too.

Iago wrote: »

I'm not going to worry about it until I log back in and see what was done

Well i can say few things that have been done, at least on PTS. And if they think 1.64 is ready for release ... meeeeh

Teleport mecanics bugged or broken. On live, when u teleport with sorc, it always moves where you pointing with your mouse, now it moves in the direction your Toon faces
Theres alot of combos that you could do, for example, inner light, bound armour, pets, but if u go that path, there will be no bar slot left for any skills...
And yeh, already ppl in pvp are using either 1h sword with reflect, or u get to face a templar that stacks insane dmg shield or a dk that reflects everything. Sorc is all about misiles and that makes our firepower useless in fights..... Unless, we play a finisher class, run around with group and lightning fury lowest hp enemy...use some suport skill, heal , that kind of stuff

The people who think Liquid Lightning or Lightning Flood will be useless for PVP aren't seeing things clearly. In PVP in my experience you are either fighting against a melee enemy, fighting against a ranged enemy, or fighting against a zerg and IMO the only situation where Liquid Lightning is useless is is against a ranged enemy. Against Zergs we all know it will do ridiculous damage and proc disintegration as they move slowly and we have nice range on it. Against melee just cast it on yourself (and maybe layer with Mines and Boundless Storm) and if they try to block at all they say goodbye to all of their stamina. So you can control the area around you, have good ranged attacks, and can create distance like no other class.... sounds good to me and looking forward to it (until I get one shot by 2h users).

pppontus wrote: »

Let the whining commence!

I'm so sorry for your loss (of ability to figure out a more advanced rotation than surge+crushing shock).

This... Farewell sorc class? They're objectively the strongest class of the four as of 1.6 for pvp at this point, and pve-wise they're top-tier overall. Got a newer sorc toon I left at vr7 now before 1.6 hit so as not to waste champ xp... it will be vr14 very quickly and bubble-porting all over creation .

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Let the whining commence!

I'm so sorry for your loss (of ability to figure out a more advanced rotation than surge+crushing shock).

This... Farewell sorc class? They're objectively the strongest class of the four as of 1.6 for pvp at this point, and pve-wise they're top-tier overall. Got a newer sorc toon I left at vr7 now before 1.6 hit so as not to waste champ xp... it will be vr14 very quickly and bubble-porting all over creation .

Objectively? Do you know what that word means? What is it about Sorc that you want them nerfed so badly? You main a DK and troll other classes threads in attempts to nerf them.

How can you say objectively they are the strongest when the patch hasn't even hit live yet. You think PTS cyrodiil with 3600CP and all these 1v1s means anything? Look buddy, I know you love your DK very much but no reason to spread misinformation wherever you can.

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Erok25, we do have a sta regen buff in a morph of dark exchange now. Put it on your overload bar if you don't have space anywhere else.

Dark Exchange should never be used in DPS situations. It is a massive hit to your DPS. It is basically only an out of combat ability, which really is pointless when considering end game PVE content.

I love playing my sorc and I'm sure she'll continue to kick butt in 1.6. :-)

Derra wrote: »

Atleast we had a decent selfheal for 1 pts patchcycle. Say hello to 1.3 second casttime on unstable familar and goodby to using that pet ever again

Goodbye to sorc...no selfheal.

Now we have:
2h build,
JC Beam Templar,
and "I reflect all,and smash in your face"
GJ!!

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

lol, we got nothing else viable, everything else we got is highly situational. And we're still the worst class, no matter if it's healing, tanking or dps. I mean, asking the adds to nicely stand in that 10 sec AoE of ours and let it tickle them? Or stand for 5 minutes and charge a spell that's barely viable anyway. Might as well switch to God mode templar or DK now

Picking a class in an RPG for the sole purpose to "roxxor" meters is the wrong way to go. I am very happy with my Sorceress and the changes to our summoning skill line. Besides that I heal just fine and don't run into any major issues either.

Derra wrote: »

Atleast we had a decent selfheal for 1 pts patchcycle. Say hello to 1.3 second casttime on unstable familar and goodby to using that pet ever again

Yeah - it's funny, really. Someone realized they'd implemented a good self-heal for sorcs. They soon realized their mistake!

Sorcs reaction to their OPness being nerfed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFO4kUdX7q4

Erock25 wrote: »

Dark Exchange should never be used in DPS situations. It is a massive hit to your DPS. It is basically only an out of combat ability, which really is pointless when considering end game PVE content.

Well you don't have to use it; but you have the ability you asked for. Just like you don't have to use spell symmetry if you are going to be magicka built like me, but you should if you want your dps to be good. If you are going melee you should put your first 70 pts for the thief section into sta cost reduction and you shouldn't have an issue with regen, if you do, add a cost reduction enchant to one of your rings. Dual wield is still the best melee dps in the game and sorcs can get the highest attack power in dual wield without having to off-hand a 2h.

One of the reasons why people stop answering hysterical "sky is falling" style threads is because even when provided with an adequate answer and solution it is never good enough. The people who are upset want more, much more than they will ever get. This thread is now about how melee sorcs aren't good enough, and how caster sorcs aren't good enough, and that sorcs are usless in PVP and that sorcs are forced into pets, and on, and on, and on. It's just a river of worthless tears now that nobody can take seriously and won't accomplish anything other than emotional venting.

I like my sorc, I will play my sorc, and the solutions for you to enjoy your sorc are there if you want to see them. If not then make a DK or a templar or a NB and see if the game is so much easier from their points of view.

A lot of hate towards sorc mains from those who re-rolled dragon-mode months ago.