ZOS please have mercy on us. (The bots are back... well sort of anyway)
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Iago
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Reinstate some grinding areas, since the removal of the normal grinding spots dungeons and quest areas are being over run with grinders. I understand that they do not wish to do the quests as I am sure most of them are leveling strictly for PvP but the problem is that now it 's almost as bad as having the bots we had right after launch. Please give these people back their grinding spots so People don't have to wait forever for boss spawns dungeons and that we can have trash mobs to kill and collect loot to research decon etc.
I do realize I can jump into the fray however when there are mini zergs if five t 10 players out grinding mobs it's hard to get enough damage in to even get the mob to drop anything.
Please, please please put some grinding areas in......
Edited by Iago on February 28, 2015 2:22PM I do realize I can jump into the fray however when there are mini zergs if five t 10 players out grinding mobs it's hard to get enough damage in to even get the mob to drop anything.
Please, please please put some grinding areas in......
That which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.
-Thomas Pain
-Thomas Pain
15
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Kupoking✭✭✭✭✭no. grinding is *** rediculous and stupid. I dont want to have to grind my ass off for champion points because its the best alternative10 -
Iago✭✭✭✭✭houimetub17_ESO wrote: »no. grinding is *** rediculous and stupid. I dont want to have to grind my ass off for champion points because its the best alternative
I agree but grinders are making the low level dungeons and quest areas complete pains in the ass, areas dedicated to grinding would hopefully cause the grinders to migrate elswhere.That which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.
-Thomas Pain2 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You can still grind. You just can't level faster than everyone else by exploiting specific grind spots or bugs.----
Murray?3 -
Iago✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »You can still grind. You just can't level faster than everyone else by exploiting specific grind spots or bugs.
I don not want to grind I want the grinders to go someplace anyplace but the dungeons and the questing areas, they are screwing with game play and it sucks, give them a place with large quantities of mobs to grind so they can have their fun while I and all the other who may be frustrated with their presence in the PvE questing areas can have our fun as well.Edited by Iago on February 28, 2015 2:26PMThat which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.
-Thomas Pain7 -
Kupoking✭✭✭✭✭Meh ok I understand that point Iago. Before 1.1 came out people were grinding in Wayrest Sewers as it was the best way to gain exp. The cool thing about it was that it was instanced and didn't feel like a complete waste of time as you could get Worm Cult peices out of it as well as practicing/testing your build for 4 man groups.
Perhaps a solution in those terms would be a better fit? Or maybe increasing exp gains in Dolmen/Worldboss/Public dungeon finding and completion vs the amount of exp a single mob gives?6 -
Iago✭✭✭✭✭houimetub17_ESO wrote: »Meh ok I understand that point Iago. Before 1.1 came out people were grinding in Wayrest Sewers as it was the best way to gain exp. The cool thing about it was that it was instanced and didn't feel like a complete waste of time as you could get Worm Cult peices out of it as well as practicing/testing your build for 4 man groups.
Perhaps a solution in those terms would be a better fit? Or maybe increasing exp gains in Dolmen/Worldboss/Public dungeon finding and completion vs the amount of exp a single mob gives?
Anything would be better than the way things stand now. The day before yesterday I sat in a dungeon for 45 min waiting for the boss to spawn before the dungeon zerg made it back to them. There has to be a happy middle ground somewhere.That which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.
-Thomas Pain1 -
BigM✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seems like nothing has changed. Now you guys see what we went through when the game was coming out of beta and continued on with live. Only it was 10 times worse. Welcome to ESO.“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”
― Stephen Hawking5 -
Iago✭✭✭✭✭houimetub17_ESO wrote: »Which dungeon (and level) are you talking about?
It was the Ebon Crypts in Glenubra but that isn't the only dungeon I have seen it happening in. Also the grinders aren't just hitting the dungeons at the beginning of Rivenspire there is the quest where you are supposed to help the Hinault family and there was a group of people pulling all of the mobs and killing them which sucks because it makes it next to impossible to do enough damage fast enough to get loot drops. I fully understand that some people enjoy grinding and they will do it one way or another I just wish ZOS would give them areas to grind.That which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.
-Thomas Pain2 -
Kupoking✭✭✭✭✭Nah man, it wasnt the same thing as the original Public dungeon ideas. back then the best gear at your level was found on those bosses, which is why they were farmed over and over. Every single bosses had 10+ farmers bot on them.
Believe me, i'm sure this situation had nothing to do with this.2 -
Iago✭✭✭✭✭houimetub17_ESO wrote: »Nah man, it wasnt the same thing as the original Public dungeon ideas. back then the best gear at your level was found on those bosses, which is why they were farmed over and over. Every single bosses had 10+ farmers bot on them.
Believe me, i'm sure this situation had nothing to do with this.
That's true the bots were worse and their reasons were different but the grinders who are doing this for xp or loot or whatever they are doing it for now are really really annoying.That which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.
-Thomas Pain1 -
Kupoking✭✭✭✭✭
It was the Ebon Crypts in Glenubra but that isn't the only dungeon I have seen it happening in. Also the grinders aren't just hitting the dungeons at the beginning of Rivenspire there is the quest where you are supposed to help the Hinault family and there was a group of people pulling all of the mobs and killing them which sucks because it makes it next to impossible to do enough damage fast enough to get loot drops. I fully understand that some people enjoy grinding and they will do it one way or another I just wish ZOS would give them areas to grind.
I assume those were vet zones?0 -
Iago✭✭✭✭✭houimetub17_ESO wrote: »
I assume those were vet zones?
No these are the starter zones for the Daggerfall CovenantThat which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.
-Thomas Pain0 -
Kupoking✭✭✭✭✭BlueIllyrian wrote: »I see new players are arriving in mass, sadly not the types that was expected.
Yep I think that more the problem of it. Nothing to do with Veteran level Grinding spots in craglorn. Sorry to have mis-interpreted you OPEdited by Kupoking on February 28, 2015 3:10PM0 -
dharbert✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's an MMO. There are other players in it. If you want the mobs all to yourself, then by all means fire up Skyrim. Grinding is a perfectly legitimate form of play, whether you like it or not. If Zenimax decides that it has become a problem, then they will instance quest areas so grinders aren't killing all of your quest targets.8 -
firstdecan✭✭✭✭✭
✭lol. This is what you get for complaining about grinders. There are a lot of players who have no interest in the questing, they just want to get to end game content. Nerf their grinds and they will find other grinds.7 -
Lionxoft✭✭✭✭✭
✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »You can still grind. You just can't level faster than everyone else by exploiting specific grind spots or bugs.
Pffffahahhahahahahahahahahhaahahhaa (Breathes in)hahahahahhahahahahah!
Grinding is still ultimately the best way to accrue xp. Compared to questing it's night and day difference. You can get from lv1->VR14 in just 3 days strictly grinding even in our current game update. Would love to see a quester accomplish that.
Edited by Lionxoft on February 28, 2015 3:41PM2 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
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Pffffahahhahahahahahahahahhaahahhaa (Breathes in)hahahahahhahahahahah!
Grinding is still ultimately the best way to accrue xp. Compared to questing it's night and day difference. You can get from lv1->VR14 in just 3 days strictly grinding even in our current game update. Would love to see a quester accomplish that.
Would love to see someone not treat the game as a race to max level so that we can all have nice things.
But last I checked, grinders have been whining on these very forums about how their XP gain has been slowed so much that they might as well be questing. I guess they're not in on the secret, but I really don't care about that. What I dislike about that "community" is that grinders have repeatedly shown that they will find and use every exploit they can in order to maximize XP gain. It fosters a bad sense of gameplay.----
Murray?7 -
Lionxoft✭✭✭✭✭
✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
Would love to see someone not treat the game as a race to max level so that we can all have nice things.
But last I checked, grinders have been whining on these very forums about how their XP gain has been slowed so much that they might as well be questing. I guess they're not in on the secret, but I really don't care about that. What I dislike about that "community" is that grinders have repeatedly shown that they will find and use every exploit they can in order to maximize XP gain. It fosters a bad sense of gameplay.
Most of the grinders complain about the nerfs to Craglorn. They nerfed Craglorn sure but there are other areas in the game with fast spawning enemies that die very quickly while yielding a fair piece of xp. Everyone thinks that ZOS dislikes the grind playstyle yet ZOS implements an alternate advancement system that is based directly on XP gain which ultimately makes grinding the best method of CP accrual.
They obviously don't care about your personal game experience @nerevarine1138 . I mean why else would they not ban these people that are "exploiting" and fostering this "bad sense of gameplay"? People will complain about grinders and grinders will complain about their favorite spot being nerfed.
Zenimax would need to completely overhaul the xp gain from quests and reduce the gain from enemies significantly to give you a system that would negate the grinders. This would also lose and/or cost them a lot more money than it's worth and we all know that ZO$ loves their money!
Grinders will be extremely more powerful than questers. How do you feel about that?Edited by Lionxoft on February 28, 2015 4:05PM3 -
NotSo✭✭✭✭Grinders should be given just one incredibly huge and obnoxious boss that throws tons of insta-kill aoes and will take hours to kill but will award tons of xp, then immediately come back to life (not respawn, just stand back up) and insta-kill everything in vicinity. Does not award any items or gear. All your equipments durability is set to 0 when you kill boss. OK maybe not take hours to kill but it should definitely be a long fight.
Boss will never use direct attacks, only back to back aoe abilities.
Boss has high armor and spell resist so attackers will be keen to keep active debuffs.
Boss will use a flurry of unblockable, oddly shaped aoes that cause insta-death to keep pugs moving and active, using movement bonus abilities would not be a bad idea.
Boss's aoes are not specific to Boss's position but rather the entire area around Boss.
Boss is prone to all negative affects except CC.
Boss keeps his ground with his back to a wall so all of his attackers face his front, in the action. OR Boss will have a massive aoe that fires off behind him making the Boss's rear a bad place to be.
Boss will also have a massive aoe to cover the ground at a specific range and outward to keep players within other aoe ranges, and also to keep nonparticipants away.
Boss grants full XP on death to all fight participants, regardless of the amount of help any player has commited.
Boss will heal itself for x% of max health whenever it kills a player. Higher % heal with lower health.
Boss will throw out aoe attacks faster based on health remaining.
Boss health will reset if Boss has not taken weapon/spell damage for 10 seconds.
Boss wanders around aimlessly in Cyrodiil while not being attacked.
Boss is prone to siege damage (but you're going to have to have a very large standoff distance to not get killed).
Boss's name is Boss
Totally cool to kill Boss without taking any damage at all, just gotta dodge those aoes.
Sorry I kept adding to it. I thought the idea was fun :PEdited by NotSo on February 28, 2015 5:57PMGar'Sol the Wanderer VR14 Khajiit Sorcerer Spellblade2 -
Minack✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
Would love to see someone not treat the game as a race to max level so that we can all have nice things.
But last I checked, grinders have been whining on these very forums about how their XP gain has been slowed so much that they might as well be questing. I guess they're not in on the secret, but I really don't care about that. What I dislike about that "community" is that grinders have repeatedly shown that they will find and use every exploit they can in order to maximize XP gain. It fosters a bad sense of gameplay.
According to whom?
This may be difficult for your mind to grasp, but not everyone plays a game the way you do. Someone who kills mobs over and over for xp isn't exploiting the game or cheating. All they're doing is trying to is speed up the dreadfully slow quest drudgery so they can actually get to a place and level where they can have fun. Someone getting to max level before you do doesn't suddenly take away content from you. It's not a zero sum game.8 -
firstdecan✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Most of the grinders complain about the nerfs to Craglorn. They nerfed Craglorn sure but there are other areas in the game with fast spawning enemies that die very quickly while yielding a fair piece of xp. Everyone thinks that ZOS dislikes the grind playstyle yet ZOS implements an alternate advancement system that is based directly on XP gain which ultimately makes grinding the best method of CP accrual.
They obviously don't care about your personal game experience @nerevarine1138 . I mean why else would they not ban these people that are "exploiting" and fostering this "bad sense of gameplay"? People will complain about grinders and grinders will complain about their favorite spot being nerfed.
Zenimax would need to completely overhaul the xp gain from quests and reduce the gain from enemies significantly to give you a system that would negate the grinders. This would also lose and/or cost them a lot more money than it's worth and we all know that ZO$ loves their money!
Grinders will be extremely more powerful than questers. How do you feel about that?
I think I've changed my mind regarding this whole grinding topic. I used to support "grinders" in this game. Most of them just want a quick way to get to end game so they can PvP or do trials with their friends. Many are grinding alts to that point so they can play content they've already achieved with a different character. Given the sense of entitlement that most "questers" have, that everyone needs to enjoy that mindless ~400 hours of questing over and over to really play the game, I think "grinders" should just give up and leave the game. There's obviously nothing here but a shell of the single player game, the best thing to do is stop supporting the online game so Bethesda is forced to make TES VI to keep the IP profitable.
Every time I see a player post that "grinders shouldn't be able to level faster than me" I'm reminded how petty people can really be, and how they're more than willing to ruin someone else's fun over something that doesn't even affect them. This wouldn't be bothersome, but ZoS has empowered that negativity by making it more and more difficult to get to and enjoy the content that competitive players want. It's basically players that have no interest in the competitive portions of the game hamstringing the players who want to get to the competitive portions of the game as quickly as possible.
So really, all that leaves in this game is a substandard single player TES game with zone chat and guild stores. It certainly explains why the game is now F2P, ZoS has gone back on their intention of making a game that has "something for everyone" and is focusing on the market segment that will pay for mindless repetitive activity. Everyone else should just find something else to do.7 -
NukeAllTheThings✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
Would love to see someone not treat the game as a race to max level so that we can all have nice things.
Race to max level? The game has been out for nearly a year. I am sorry it doesn't, take everyone 10 months to play through the content. But then again I guess those that reached max level 4 months after release were probably just racing to max too right? A large portion of the people grinding now and those making the loudest complaints are those that have played through the content once and are trying to level up 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th etc characters to participate in trials, vet dungeons, DSA and PVP.
@Iago I understand your frustration. I hate that I have to take my 6th re-roll back through the core content and grind mobs there. Unfortunately ZOS decided to decimate XP for dungeons, world bosses and dolmen as well as completely wipe out alternate leveling in Craglorn burial sites, the tower, anomalies and the upper Craglorn loop. Instead of fixing the 2 boss glitches they gutted the entire thing so we are now making due with what we have. Give us back our grind island and we will happily return there to fill that vast unpopulated wasteland to do what we do."it's important to state that our decision to go with subscriptions is not a referendum on online game revenue models. F2P, B2P, etc. are valid, proven business models - but subscription is the one that fits ESO the best, given our commitment to freedom of gameplay, quality and long-term content delivery. Plus, players will appreciate not having to worry about being "monetized" in the middle of playing the game, which is definitely a problem that is cropping up more and more in online gaming these days." - Matt Firor4 -
Ethona✭✭✭I'm not a grinder and I'm 100% ok with folks grinding! All you grinders can keep up your good work to play this game the way you see fit and produce for you the fun you enjoy. All these grind haters are really going to hate end-game for sure though because the grind is all that is left at end-game. I'm guessing that the game will see a DLC every 3 to 4 months... That's a long wait for the non-grinders, and a lot of CP they're missing out on.
By the way, it's not illegal to grind mobs/bosses for XP. There is no US laws that states you can't grind mobs in a video game. I'm starting to ponder if some folks are trying to use the out of season hunting laws in video games LOL. Honestly does anyone read the TOS and the other agreements anymore for these games? I see folks all the time saying what is allowed or not allowed and the first thing I do is LOL because none of it is in the agreements.Edited by Ethona on February 28, 2015 6:27PM2 -
UrQuan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I feel like I keep on harping on this in multiple threads, but here's the thing.
Questing should be a viable method of leveling.
Grinding should be a viable method of leveling.
PVP should be a viable method of leveling.
Running dungeons/trials should be a viable method of leveling.
They don't all have to be exactly equal in terms of how fast you gain XP, but an hour doing any of those 4 activities should give similar (as in: in the same ballpark) XP rewards. There's nothing wrong with any of those methods of play. Personally I enjoy questing and running dungeons, while I don't much care for PVP and I hate grinding. That doesn't mean that people who enjoy PVP or grinding should have a harder time leveling than me.
This thread is really all about one of the biggest sources of friction between questers and grinders: grinders ruining the experience of questers by slaughtering everything where the questers are questing.
Just like @Iago suggests, the solution to this is not to vilify grinders for playing the way they want to play, or to nerf the spots where they are grinding. The solution is to have a couple of designated grind spots per zone. I'm not talking about spots that let grinders rack up massively unreasonable amounts of XP and level ridiculously fast. I'm talking about spots where they can get a similar amount of XP to what they're getting in the spots they are currently grinding. The difference is that these spots would have sufficient mobs respawning at a sufficient rate to keep grinding viable, but would not have any quests that happen there. That way grinders can grind to their hearts content without interfering with the enjoyment of questers. Everyone's happy.
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Morshire✭✭✭✭This thread is really all about one of the biggest sources of friction between questers and grinders: grinders ruining the experience of questers by slaughtering everything where the questers are questing.
Just like @Iago suggests, the solution to this is not to vilify grinders for playing the way they want to play, or to nerf the spots where they are grinding. The solution is to have a couple of designated grind spots per zone. I'm not talking about spots that let grinders rack up massively unreasonable amounts of XP and level ridiculously fast. I'm talking about spots where they can get a similar amount of XP to what they're getting in the spots they are currently grinding. The difference is that these spots would have sufficient mobs respawning at a sufficient rate to keep grinding viable, but would not have any quests that happen there. That way grinders can grind to their hearts content without interfering with the enjoyment of questers. Everyone's happy.
^^This....I have never liked grinding. Guess what I do now in my free time? Grind. Not so much for the XP. Mainly mat items, or stuff for research, or to trade for gold. Stupid stuff really. And I might even feel bad about interrupting others game play (Would have to ask the committee inside my head) BUT........I always accept the group invite while grinding. Try not to be judgmental of XP lechers (Just being funny right
), etc. I don't understand people being mad about the grinding? Do you ask to be let in? Do you whisper to make the grinder aware of what you might want from that spot? Have you thrown the group invite? Seriously. Sometimes, I have encountered a rude individual who only wants 2 people in the group. Or they have to attack everything, even if they are only near it....."OMG, I might miss that XP"....But overall, grinding is just that. People getting XP, or items, or XP for skill lines, etc. It is not like grinders are out to "ruin" anyone's game play intentionally. (Maybe some, but I doubt you could even get it into % form) There is always game edict, and most gamers will follow it. (Don't ask me for specific "rules", if you don't know, then you are not a real gamer. And I don't mean that in a rude way.) Players have always helped other players. Grinders are no different. (Well beyond play style right?) Just a thought on that.
Back on topic:
It would be nice to just go somewhere and not have to worry about whether I am being considerate of others. Makes for better mind numbing game play. Or better yet, content that makes me (So that makes it an opinion related to me, right?) want to play through it more. Either choice would work.
Follow me if I advance, Kill me if I retreat, Avenge me if I die.
When this immediate evil power has been defeated, we shall not yet have won the long battle with the elemental barbarities. Another evil, it may be an invisible adversary, will attempt, again, and yet again, to destroy our frail civilization. Is it true, I wonder, that the only way to escape a war is to be in it?
If I die, you are forgiven, If I live, I will kill you.0 -
Iago✭✭✭✭✭NukeAllTheThings wrote: »
Race to max level? The game has been out for nearly a year. I am sorry it doesn't, take everyone 10 months to play through the content. But then again I guess those that reached max level 4 months after release were probably just racing to max too right? A large portion of the people grinding now and those making the loudest complaints are those that have played through the content once and are trying to level up 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th etc characters to participate in trials, vet dungeons, DSA and PVP.
@Iago I understand your frustration. I hate that I have to take my 6th re-roll back through the core content and grind mobs there. Unfortunately ZOS decided to decimate XP for dungeons, world bosses and dolmen as well as completely wipe out alternate leveling in Craglorn burial sites, the tower, anomalies and the upper Craglorn loop. Instead of fixing the 2 boss glitches they gutted the entire thing so we are now making due with what we have. Give us back our grind island and we will happily return there to fill that vast unpopulated wasteland to do what we do.
@NukeAllTheThings I get it man and I dot blame the grinders at all they are just trying to have fun. I just wish that ZOS would give the grinders someplace to grind.That which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.
-Thomas Pain0 -
Khaldar✭✭✭As a "grinder," I don't want to do the same quests over and over again for my alts. Questing is slooooooow. I can grind my alt to 50 in a very quick efficient fashion. The real grind in this game is QUESTING (especially on alts) more so at Vet levels. Once Zos forces us to grind quests I will be gone again. If I would have realized at launch that I could have grinded efficiently at V1 versus doing Cadwells, I wouldn't have left for 6 months.Edited by Khaldar on February 28, 2015 11:19PM3
