Show Champion Points Next to Rank

RoamingRiverElk · February 2015

Since Champion Points matter so much in Cyrodiil, have the Champion Points that a character has spent visible next to the character's name so people can judge accordingly whether they'll engage... and on the other hand, they will be able to tell if they were beaten by a "higher rank" character.

ToRelax · February 2015

Note, how much a char has spent.

For me that means the highest number of spent points in one major category (warrior, thief, mage) * 3 minus 0/1/2 points depending on wich category most points are spent in. If for example char spends all 70 he has at release, highest would be thief (24) because it's after warrior, 24 * 3 -1 = 70 .
That would be the most fair I think.

Alternatively just show the "Champion Rank", it will be the same in most cases and pretty easy to implement I think.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · February 2015

It's a bad idea, imo. That'll just lead to elitism, people won't get accepted into groups because they don't have enough champion points, etc.

dharbert · February 2015

Hell no.

RoamingRiverElk · February 2015

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

It's a bad idea, imo. That'll just lead to elitism, people won't get accepted into groups because they don't have enough champion points, etc.

Differences in effectiveness due to champion points is a reality though. I'm not sure if not showing them would help people get accepted into elite groups anyway - they would need some other kind of proof anyway, IF they were going for a record time / weekly / whatever. Note however, even the best PvErs and PvPers group with randoms at times, knowing that the group won't be the most effective it could be.

But if I were to follow your reasoning, I'm not sure why the game should even show what veteran rank a character is. Or why there are *linkable* achievements for trials. Or why there is an Alliance Rank that shows next to a character's name?

C0pp3rhead · February 2015

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

Differences in effectiveness due to champion points is a reality though. I'm not sure if not showing them would help people get accepted into elite groups anyway - they would need some other kind of proof anyway, IF they were going for a record time / weekly / whatever. Note however, even the best PvErs and PvPers group with randoms at times, knowing that the group won't be the most effective it could be.

But if I were to follow your reasoning, I'm not sure why the game should even show what veteran rank a character is. Or why there are *linkable* achievements for trials. Or why there is an Alliance Rank that shows next to a character's name?

Exactly - 'elite' groups don't usually accept people they don't know anyway, regardless of what they've managed to accomplish.

Seeing a champion rank in PvP would also be a plus. If I'm a stealthed-up ganker with 200 Champion points, I won't want to mess with someone displaying champion rank 3000. Moreover, on my death recap I want to see why someone killed me. If they wrecked me because they have a couple hundered more CP than me, no biggie. If they wrecked me with fewer CP, I would look at what abilities they were using or maybe look them up on Youtube.

vovus69 · February 2015

Agree with OP. This is started to be the crucial difference between people and should be shown.

SoulScream · February 2015

Yes show cp rank!

LtCrunch · February 2015

I'll leave my signature here in favor of displayed Champion rank. Only makes sense. Not displaying it would is about as logical as not displaying character levels at all.

seancaputo_ESO · February 2015

They will not do this... This will show the allocated points from day one. People will start wondering how people are gaining points so fast and still playing in PVP.

Everyone in PVP should get maxed points day one.

100 points is a huge imbalance between toons... Forget about 1k, 2k and 3k.

If you don't think so, go grab yourself a fresh too with no passives and then fight a toon with same skills with 20 points only in passives. They will melt your face.

Maverick827 · February 2015

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

It's a bad idea, imo. That'll just lead to elitism, people won't get accepted into groups because they don't have enough champion points, etc.

An elitist will be able to determine how good or bad you are without having any numbers. Not having them just wastes everyone's time.

Source: Am an elitist.

SanderBuraas · February 2015

No. We do not need unnecessary features such as this, which is also why we do not have the ability to inspect other players.

TagaParti · February 2015

we dont need this. i will have 70 cp in 1.6, bring me someone with 500 cp a week or more after, i dont think he can beat me. it is the build and player skills that matters, not the cp with only 25% increase. and that increase can only be achieve by loyal players, let it be their reward for playing the game.

ToRelax · February 2015

TagaParti wrote: »

we dont need this. i will have 70 cp in 1.6, bring me someone with 500 cp a week or more after, i dont think he can beat me. it is the build and player skills that matters, not the cp with only 25% increase. and that increase can only be achieve by loyal players, let it be their reward for playing the game.

Let's be honest here, okay?

On PTS, I came to test emperor in 1.61. In 1.63, when my character was copied from EU again, I used all the points and was a good bit stronger than with emperor in 1.61.
If you think the champion system is only 25% - get your maths right, seriously.

RoamingRiverElk · February 2015

Smepic wrote: »

No. We do not need unnecessary features such as this, which is also why we do not have the ability to inspect other players.

You don't seem to actually give any other reason than the fact that you don't want other people to see your CP. However, precisely for the reasons I gave in my original post, I feel that the feature is necessary.

ToRelax wrote: »

TagaParti wrote: »

we dont need this. i will have 70 cp in 1.6, bring me someone with 500 cp a week or more after, i dont think he can beat me. it is the build and player skills that matters, not the cp with only 25% increase. and that increase can only be achieve by loyal players, let it be their reward for playing the game.

Let's be honest here, okay?

On PTS, I came to test emperor in 1.61. In 1.63, when my character was copied from EU again, I used all the points and was a good bit stronger than with emperor in 1.61.
If you think the champion system is only 25% - get your maths right, seriously.

I agree and if I recall correctly, Emperor bonus was even nerfed after 1.61 so that the max stats only get 75% more, and not 100% more.

If you don't think 70 CP vs 500 CP is a difference that gives a huge advantage to another player, please go test on the PTS against a player with a similar skill level and gear. This will become very apparent in three months when first players have gotten a very significant amount of CP. Do you remember how this forum used to be full of "remove Former Emperor bonus OP!" threads? The two most significant Former Emperor passives are Domination (increase health, magicka and stamina regeneration by 2%) and Authority (decrease Ultimate costs by 5%). Now compare these with what the CP passives can do...

In PvP, I compare my skill against other players' skills all the time. I would say that that is one thing that is at the core of PvP to an extent (though it is of course fun to have the challenge of having unpredictable enemies vs programmed ones and so on). I want to know whether the fact that I won or lost was due to simply superior passive stats or due to my build (set items + skills chosen on the bars) and playstyle.

It is somewhat ironic that some of the best PvPers in the game are the ones who are worried about the CP system.

LtCrunch · February 2015

Smepic wrote: »

No. We do not need unnecessary features such as this, which is also why we do not have the ability to inspect other players.

By that logic they might as well not display character levels.

Ballzy321 · February 2015

It should show it. I would like to see how fast people max it out as well. I'd feel better about getting steamrolled by some one I knew I didn't have a chance fighting in the first place.

Ezareth · February 2015

seancaputo_ESO wrote: »

They will not do this... This will show the allocated points from day one. People will start wondering how people are gaining points so fast and still playing in PVP.

Everyone in PVP should get maxed points day one.

100 points is a huge imbalance between toons... Forget about 1k, 2k and 3k.

If you don't think so, go grab yourself a fresh too with no passives and then fight a toon with same skills with 20 points only in passives. They will melt your face.

I think people are misunderstanding how the CP system is going to flow.

The first 600 champion points (200 per constellation) provide the most benefit. Everything beyond that is just gravy (bonus stats and minor upgrades)

You get your maximum damage potential, you maximum efficiency potential, and your maximum defensive potential at 600 CP along with *all* the perks. A ton of people will be at 600 CP (530CP * 400,000 = 212,000,000 exp) in 3-6 months. A few people will be there even sooner depending on the exp bonuses they're receiving and the time they spend grinding.

That said I think displaying the champion number next to your name in your kill recap screen would be appropriate.

seancaputo_ESO · February 2015

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

seancaputo_ESO wrote: »

They will not do this... This will show the allocated points from day one. People will start wondering how people are gaining points so fast and still playing in PVP.

Everyone in PVP should get maxed points day one.

100 points is a huge imbalance between toons... Forget about 1k, 2k and 3k.

If you don't think so, go grab yourself a fresh too with no passives and then fight a toon with same skills with 20 points only in passives. They will melt your face.

I think people are misunderstanding how the CP system is going to flow.

The first 600 champion points (200 per constellation) provide the most benefit. Everything beyond that is just gravy (bonus stats and minor upgrades)

You get your maximum damage potential, you maximum efficiency potential, and your maximum defensive potential at 600 CP along with *all* the perks. A ton of people will be at 600 CP (530CP * 400,000 = 212,000,000 exp) in 3-6 months. A few people will be there even sooner depending on the exp bonuses they're receiving and the time they spend grinding.

That said I think displaying the champion number next to your name in your kill recap screen would be appropriate.

When you quote a long range time table -- 3 to 6 month, add the amount of time per day that will take to receive 600 CP. I believe your numbers are flawed. I know there is a huge difference in CP. But to state time tables without the allocated time per day? Please post...

Ezareth · February 2015

seancaputo_ESO wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

seancaputo_ESO wrote: »

They will not do this... This will show the allocated points from day one. People will start wondering how people are gaining points so fast and still playing in PVP.

Everyone in PVP should get maxed points day one.

100 points is a huge imbalance between toons... Forget about 1k, 2k and 3k.

If you don't think so, go grab yourself a fresh too with no passives and then fight a toon with same skills with 20 points only in passives. They will melt your face.

I think people are misunderstanding how the CP system is going to flow.

The first 600 champion points (200 per constellation) provide the most benefit. Everything beyond that is just gravy (bonus stats and minor upgrades)

You get your maximum damage potential, you maximum efficiency potential, and your maximum defensive potential at 600 CP along with *all* the perks. A ton of people will be at 600 CP (530CP * 400,000 = 212,000,000 exp) in 3-6 months. A few people will be there even sooner depending on the exp bonuses they're receiving and the time they spend grinding.

That said I think displaying the champion number next to your name in your kill recap screen would be appropriate.

When you quote a long range time table -- 3 to 6 month, add the amount of time per day that will take to receive 600 CP. I believe your numbers are flawed. I know there is a huge difference in CP. But to state time tables without the allocated time per day? Please post...

The math isn't that difficult to work out.

212,000,000 AP in 3 months means 2.35 Million exp a day. Everyone is getting a 10% bonus that subscribes, others will be grinding with their "Mara partners" for another 20%. I know people who were grinding 4-8 million AP a day back when craglorn came out so the short timeline isn't unrealistic for some of the more aggressive grinders. Yes many people utilized various exp flaws released with craglorn, but if there is anything I have faith in, it is that others will find similar options to grind exp in 1.6.

SanderBuraas · February 2015

Brandalf wrote: »

Smepic wrote: »

No. We do not need unnecessary features such as this, which is also why we do not have the ability to inspect other players.

By that logic they might as well not display character levels.

Do you also wish to see how many skill points I have spent, how many hours I have played, which skills I have, if my ultimate is available, etc?

Being able to see the champion points of another player the same way you see the level is too intrusive and totally unnecessary.

seancaputo_ESO · February 2015

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

seancaputo_ESO wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

seancaputo_ESO wrote: »

They will not do this... This will show the allocated points from day one. People will start wondering how people are gaining points so fast and still playing in PVP.

Everyone in PVP should get maxed points day one.

100 points is a huge imbalance between toons... Forget about 1k, 2k and 3k.

If you don't think so, go grab yourself a fresh too with no passives and then fight a toon with same skills with 20 points only in passives. They will melt your face.

I think people are misunderstanding how the CP system is going to flow.

The first 600 champion points (200 per constellation) provide the most benefit. Everything beyond that is just gravy (bonus stats and minor upgrades)

You get your maximum damage potential, you maximum efficiency potential, and your maximum defensive potential at 600 CP along with *all* the perks. A ton of people will be at 600 CP (530CP * 400,000 = 212,000,000 exp) in 3-6 months. A few people will be there even sooner depending on the exp bonuses they're receiving and the time they spend grinding.

That said I think displaying the champion number next to your name in your kill recap screen would be appropriate.

When you quote a long range time table -- 3 to 6 month, add the amount of time per day that will take to receive 600 CP. I believe your numbers are flawed. I know there is a huge difference in CP. But to state time tables without the allocated time per day? Please post...

The math isn't that difficult to work out.

212,000,000 AP in 3 months means 2.35 Million exp a day. Everyone is getting a 10% bonus that subscribes, others will be grinding with their "Mara partners" for another 20%. I know people who were grinding 4-8 million AP a day back when craglorn came out so the short timeline isn't unrealistic for some of the more aggressive grinders. Yes many people utilized various exp flaws released with craglorn, but if there is anything I have faith in, it is that others will find similar options to grind exp in 1.6.

3 months is possible, I don't argue that -- A day is 8 to 12 hours. Out of the guilds and people I am associated which equals about 200 players -- on average they play 2 hours a day. So, it's more like 6 month to 1 year that the selective group will have a major advantage in PVP.

Itoq · February 2015

The OP makes an excellent point. Veteran levels (and beyond) have basically been nerfed and replaced/supplemented with CP. A player with more CP is more powerful than a player with less CP.

CP is just leveling with different labeling.

Just as you would want to know, in PVP, if the player you just beat or were beaten by was a different level than you, you should be able to know the CP level of a character you will fight or have fought.

Just as you would want to know the level of a character that you were going to group with for PVE, you should be able to know their CP level.

Not knowing gear and whatnot is more than enough unknown variables.

Ezareth · February 2015

seancaputo_ESO wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

seancaputo_ESO wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

seancaputo_ESO wrote: »

They will not do this... This will show the allocated points from day one. People will start wondering how people are gaining points so fast and still playing in PVP.

Everyone in PVP should get maxed points day one.

100 points is a huge imbalance between toons... Forget about 1k, 2k and 3k.

If you don't think so, go grab yourself a fresh too with no passives and then fight a toon with same skills with 20 points only in passives. They will melt your face.

I think people are misunderstanding how the CP system is going to flow.

The first 600 champion points (200 per constellation) provide the most benefit. Everything beyond that is just gravy (bonus stats and minor upgrades)

You get your maximum damage potential, you maximum efficiency potential, and your maximum defensive potential at 600 CP along with *all* the perks. A ton of people will be at 600 CP (530CP * 400,000 = 212,000,000 exp) in 3-6 months. A few people will be there even sooner depending on the exp bonuses they're receiving and the time they spend grinding.

That said I think displaying the champion number next to your name in your kill recap screen would be appropriate.

When you quote a long range time table -- 3 to 6 month, add the amount of time per day that will take to receive 600 CP. I believe your numbers are flawed. I know there is a huge difference in CP. But to state time tables without the allocated time per day? Please post...

The math isn't that difficult to work out.

212,000,000 AP in 3 months means 2.35 Million exp a day. Everyone is getting a 10% bonus that subscribes, others will be grinding with their "Mara partners" for another 20%. I know people who were grinding 4-8 million AP a day back when craglorn came out so the short timeline isn't unrealistic for some of the more aggressive grinders. Yes many people utilized various exp flaws released with craglorn, but if there is anything I have faith in, it is that others will find similar options to grind exp in 1.6.

3 months is possible, I don't argue that -- A day is 8 to 12 hours. Out of the guilds and people I am associated which equals about 200 players -- on average they play 2 hours a day. So, it's more like 6 month to 1 year that the selective group will have a major advantage in PVP.

I think you'll be surprised at just how many of the more competitive players will be grinding out champion points.

I don't even play an hour a day right now (what's the point?) but come 1.6 I'm going to try spending at least 6 hours a day (7 days a week) grinding CP until I'm at least feeling as powerful as I do right now on live.

The is a huge cliff that 1.6 brings with regard to strength and 70 champion points isn't nearly enough to bridge that gap. Try fighting NPCs in Cyrodiil at VR14 on live right now, then try with 70 champion points on PTS. You'll notice that they are quite a bit more powerful than they feel on live.

C0pp3rhead · February 2015

Smepic wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

Smepic wrote: »

No. We do not need unnecessary features such as this, which is also why we do not have the ability to inspect other players.

By that logic they might as well not display character levels.

Do you also wish to see how many skill points I have spent, how many hours I have played, which skills I have, if my ultimate is available, etc?

Being able to see the champion points of another player the same way you see the level is too intrusive and totally unnecessary.

A skilled player will be able to tell what abilities you have, and I get asked if I have a Nova ready all the time. By looking at your hp, I can tell whether you've eaten food or not. Moreover, yes, I want to know if a player is ready for certain content. If I'm doing a speed run or a helm farm, I'm not going to bring a first timer. I wouldn't want someone in a trials group if they have only 2k health. Someone can hopefully throw down a barrier before we charge a keep.

More often than not, inflexible and defensive players don't work well on teams and die frequently because they won't switch up their tactics or skills.

SanderBuraas · February 2015

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

Smepic wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

Smepic wrote: »

No. We do not need unnecessary features such as this, which is also why we do not have the ability to inspect other players.

By that logic they might as well not display character levels.

Do you also wish to see how many skill points I have spent, how many hours I have played, which skills I have, if my ultimate is available, etc?

Being able to see the champion points of another player the same way you see the level is too intrusive and totally unnecessary.

A skilled player will be able to tell what abilities you have, and I get asked if I have a Nova ready all the time. By looking at your hp, I can tell whether you've eaten food or not. Moreover, yes, I want to know if a player is ready for certain content. If I'm doing a speed run or a helm farm, I'm not going to bring a first timer. I wouldn't want someone in a trials group if they have only 2k health. Someone can hopefully throw down a barrier before we charge a keep.

More often than not, inflexible and defensive players don't work well on teams and die frequently because they won't switch up their tactics or skills.

I am not speaking of pve content. It is already easy enough to figure out what build someone runs by simply asking, for pve organization. As the original poster clearly states:

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

Since Champion Points matter so much in Cyrodiil, have the Champion Points that a character has spent visible next to the character's name so people can judge accordingly whether they'll engage... and on the other hand, they will be able to tell if they were beaten by a "higher rank" character.

Rook_Master · February 2015

Either have it in the interface or elite raid groups will force you to link it through an addon anyway.

Dagoth_Rac · February 2015

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

212,000,000 AP in 3 months means 2.35 Million exp a day. Everyone is getting a 10% bonus that subscribes, others will be grinding with their "Mara partners" for another 20%. I know people who were grinding 4-8 million AP a day back when craglorn came out so the short timeline isn't unrealistic for some of the more aggressive grinders. Yes many people utilized various exp flaws released with craglorn, but if there is anything I have faith in, it is that others will find similar options to grind exp in 1.6.

When Craglorn came out, you got Veteran Points (VP) from veteran rank content, not XP. The VP numbers were much higher than XP. For example, you used to get like 20,000 VP for killing bosses that now give like 910 XP. You are comparing apples to oranges when comparing "VP" grind spot numbers to the much reduced "XP" numbers. And most of those grind spots and exploits have been removed or seriously nerfed...