are the diminishing returns of the CP system diminishing enough?

Syntse · February 2015

Morvul wrote: »

well, I said it's an over-simplified example
somone with 300 CP can spend 50 each of their thief points on magicka regen and magicka cost reduction. for ~15% and ~10% bonus respectively
somone with 600 CP can spend 100 points each on that same stars, resulting in 25% and 16% benefit, plus unlocking additional passives.
Overal, this means the 600 CP player gets about 80% additional power out of the system compared to the 300 CP player. yes, 80% (varies depending on the actual passives unlocked from the respective tree, and the precise diminishing return curve) more power for 100% more investment IS diminishing returns... however, it's barely diminishing.

Might be bad example unless were purely looking at the curves. Anyway let's say with your examples those people have base 1000 mana regen. 300cp person will have 1150 and 600cp 1250 difference being 100 in regen, is that so much after all? Then again spell cost would be 1000, 300cp will have 900 and 600cp cost is 840 again only 60 points less. Let's say they have 15000 mana so 300cp person can throw 16 spells, 600cp can throw 17 spells. So difference between 300 and 600 is 1 spell.

Cannot remember the numbers in enchants and at work so cannot check online right now but most likely one could fix the difference with just one glyph of mana regen or cost reduction.

Of course on other places it might have more impact like in physical damage or critical damage in the overall picture.

Morvul · February 2015

I have quickly drawn up some diminishing return curves based on super simple algorithms:
each curve is generated so that each subsequent point invested is worth only 95 to 99 percent of the previous point
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personally, I would consider the 97% curve (red) a good sweetspot for a solid champion system
In that curves, one reaches 50% power at roughly 21 points invested, 75% power at 42 points invested.

switching to a linear system for the last 25% of potential power would probably make sense (otherwise the last ~10 points are essentially worthless).
But the current implementation of the champion system makes that switch to a linear model at ~20 CP and ~35% of potential power - which in my opinion is way to early

Ysne58 · February 2015

The only way I can see delaying the dramatic differences is to allow CP gains from the very beginning instead of having that start at VR1. I fail to see how they will manage removing the VR levels either, it's too ingrained into the game.

Ezareth · February 2015

The champion system is designed with diminishing returns, you just have to look at the big picture instead of individual abilities which are only part of the benefit.

Your first points will provide you the largest benefit of abilities as well as the most useful abilities, the most useful perks, as well as stat points.
Later points will provide less useful abilities and less useful perks as well as stat points
Beyond that you will get no perks, and even less useful abilties and stat points.
The final points provide no perks, no stats points and the least useful abilities.

The overall effect of the champion system is in fact rapidly diminishing beyond the 600 CP mark or so.

Morvul · February 2015

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

The champion system is designed with diminishing returns, you just have to look at the big picture instead of individual abilities which are only part of the benefit.

Your first points will provide you the largest benefit of abilities as well as the most useful abilities, the most useful perks, as well as stat points.
Later points will provide less useful abilities and less useful perks as well as stat points
Beyond that you will get no perks, and even less useful abilties and stat points.
The final points provide no perks, no stats points and the least useful abilities.

The overall effect of the champion system is in fact rapidly diminishing beyond the 600 CP mark or so.

Hm... that is actually a very good point.
Still, i would prefer some more diminishing in each as well...