Raw materials refining worse than on live

Baumlaus · February 2015

I just refined around 5000 raw material on PTS. I skilled everything in those professions just to be sure. I got around 3 gold boosters/500raw mats. On live there i have basically the same, sometimes worse, sometimes better, droprate of gold boosters. I had a phase where i got 4 in 500 but then also just 1 in 800. This is a serious joke regaring what stood in the patch notes to 1.6

Significantly increased the chance to receive gold boosters from refining.

Sry if there was already a thread regarding this theme but if not i think this "problem" should be adressed. If you take away the hireling drops (also in the patch notes to 1.6) but keep the droprate for refining the same or even worse than we will get a ressource problem. Farming 1hour for 500raw mats, getting 3 gold boosters out of it is just absurd.

Anyone else made this kind of experience regarding the drops or is it just me? - like i said i refined about 5000 raw materials which is enough to get an idea on how the droprates are

Baumlaus · February 2015

Some gildies did send me all theire stuff. Just refinded another 10.000 raw materials and got 51 gold booster, meaning a droprate of ~2,5/500

BergisMacBride · February 2015

Someone ran a test on one of the earlier 1.6 patches and made a spreadsheet showing the gold mat drop rate to be ~5% with the new change. That's considerably higher than what you're reporting. It was in a post either in this or the crafting forum. Sorry but I don't have the time now to dig that thread up.

I'm assuming you've purchased the 3 point passive to increase your chances for rare mats with refining? If you haven't, then I'd retry after you get those passives. If you already have those passives, then I'd definitely /bug this.

Also, was this with one type of material? Or was it across all 3 types(ore,wood,cloth)?

BergisMacBride · February 2015

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150087/1-6-1-numbers-for-refining-raw-materials/p1

Here's the link - was in the General Discussion Forum.

Baumlaus · February 2015

I skilled every point in those profession, also in the one where you increase your drop chance

Like I said, I didn't know if there was already a thread regarding this theme. But when you are right about the drop chance from someone else who tested it, compared to mine, there is something wrong.
I used for my first test 5000 of the same material and for the 2nd test 10000 equaly split between the 4 ressources (Voidstone Ore, Raw Void Bloom, Shadowhide Scraps, Rough Nightwood)

I'll send a /bug ingame but would be great to hear from some others about theire experience.

Baumlaus · February 2015

BergisMacBride wrote: »
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150087/1-6-1-numbers-for-refining-raw-materials/p1
Here's the link - was in the General Discussion Forum.

Thanks. I don't have a table chart for my result but like I described are my droprates with around 15.000 ressources worse or equal than his results.

My points is more, that I have around the same droprates on live right now, meaning with the Hirelings chance reduced and still the same droprates like on live, it will be hard to get legandarys when you are not farming 3hrs a day

BergisMacBride · February 2015

I would also like to know as well if anyone else is having this issue, as I had considered it settled based on results in the other thread. I've been hoarding unrefined mats for the last two weeks waiting for this change, especially considering the hireling nerf.

You might reply to the larger thread on this issue as others there are still reporting stable numbers with 1.63 and no drop in rates. It looks like several of the testers are following that thread as well and they may have some additional insight. I'm sure they'd be interested to hear your results.

BergisMacBride · February 2015

I was just looking at the other thread again- their gold rates are ~5/1000 or 0.5%, not 5% as I stated earlier. My bad - too early and now enough coffee.

rsciw · February 2015

hireling nerf? Have I missed something?

BergisMacBride · February 2015

rsciw wrote: »

hireling nerf? Have I missed something?

Hirelings were nerfed severely in 1.6 to only very rarely give high grade mats.

Islyn · February 2015

BergisMacBride wrote: »

rsciw wrote: »

hireling nerf? Have I missed something?

Hirelings were nerfed severely in 1.6 to only very rarely give high grade mats.

Still so sad. What's the reason for this?

NukeAllTheThings · February 2015

I calculate mine based on number of refines since you can only do 10 mats each refine. If the OP got a total of 51 gold out of 10k mats then that is 1k refines which is 5.1% and right in range w/ what most of us experienced previously. If your numbers are much lower than that, then I would definitely send feedback though the game. The more data we can gather the better.

I wonder if @Gyudan & @DeLindsay have been able to test much this week?

Tankqull · February 2015

Islyn wrote: »

BergisMacBride wrote: »

rsciw wrote: »

hireling nerf? Have I missed something?

Hirelings were nerfed severely in 1.6 to only very rarely give high grade mats.

Still so sad. What's the reason for this?

generating sales of material bundels via cash shop...

GreyRanger · February 2015

If you never played LOTRO after they moved to the cash shop I would share an observation. They sell crafting materials and recipes through their cash shop as "convenience items", saving you all that gathering time to get top level gear. Add to the ability to buy a preleveled character (equivalent of L50 I guess) and you have quite a convenience.

If you want to put recipes and crafting materials into the cash shop to monetize players in game, you need to make them more scare. Preferably you would do this a while before you had them show up in the cash shop so the furor over that change could die down.

BergisMacBride · February 2015

3rdwardhobocub18_ESO wrote: »

I calculate mine based on number of refines since you can only do 10 mats each refine. If the OP got a total of 51 gold out of 10k mats then that is 1k refines which is 5.1% and right in range w/ what most of us experienced previously. If your numbers are much lower than that, then I would definitely send feedback though the game. The more data we can gather the better.

I wonder if @Gyudan & @DeLindsay have been able to test much this week?

Yes I stand corrected to my earlier post. This looks similar to what others have been reporting in 1.6.

What isn't clear to me is whether that thread tested this against current live results. Some in that thread feel like there is no change in 1.6 vs live refining.

BergisMacBride · February 2015

Edit: double post

LunaRae · February 2015

I also refined a stack of 1,000 voidstone ore (with passives) and got 0 gold mats, 1 grain solvent and 2-3 dwarven oil. Abysmal refine rates

NukeAllTheThings · February 2015

BergisMacBride wrote: »

3rdwardhobocub18_ESO wrote: »

I calculate mine based on number of refines since you can only do 10 mats each refine. If the OP got a total of 51 gold out of 10k mats then that is 1k refines which is 5.1% and right in range w/ what most of us experienced previously. If your numbers are much lower than that, then I would definitely send feedback though the game. The more data we can gather the better.

I wonder if @Gyudan & @DeLindsay have been able to test much this week?

Yes I stand corrected to my earlier post. This looks similar to what others have been reporting in 1.6.

What isn't clear to me is whether that thread tested this against current live results. Some in that thread feel like there is no change in 1.6 vs live refining.

No worries. I haven't tested live in a long time because I have been stocking up. I can only go by what I found on reddit or what others have tested. If you are getting roughly 5% on live then I am very concerned because hirelings are virtually useless in 1.6

Vyle_Byte · February 2015

Ive not tested this on the PTS so my comment is only slightly off topic but curious about something. On live I have found this to be true... if i refine higher level materials, I get jack sh**. Refining lower level materials such as rawhide/iron/jute grants me way more gold/purple/blue than the higher levels. Have you tested using the lower levels?

NukeAllTheThings · February 2015

I refined a bunch of different levels (not enough in each level to give a decent sample), but I didn't document the outcomes of each. So I can't really say that I noticed any difference.

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150087/1-6-1-numbers-for-refining-raw-materials/

Look through that thread so see what people have come up with. Hopefully there will be more added in the coming days

Kuro1n · February 2015

1240 wood refined:
4 gold 0.32% per mat
7 purple
19 blue
15 green

580 ore refined:
3 gold 0.52% per mat
2 purple
10 blue
14 green

1580 cloth crap refined:
7 gold 0.44% per mat
16 purple
21 blue
28 green

Xeniph · February 2015

Kuro1n wrote: »

1240 wood refined:
4 gold 0.32% per mat
7 purple
19 blue
15 green

580 ore refined:
3 gold 0.52% per mat
2 purple
10 blue
14 green

1580 cloth crap refined:
7 gold 0.44% per mat
16 purple
21 blue
28 green

I'd be interested in their definition of "significantly"

These results are akin to what I see on live.

Asgari · February 2015

Each material has a different drop rate and each are pure RNG. I recall times where for 2 weeks I will get 4+ legendary mats per material of deconing in just 1 stack.

DeLindsay · February 2015

The drop rate of Legendary Tempers via Refining on PTS is 5%. This has been tested by myself and a few others to the tone of nearly 50K raw mats Refined. From what I personally see on Live it's about the same, so no "significant increase" like ZoS said in the patch notes. However, I think how they're getting away with this is that the drop rate in the Writ Coffers did get a huge buff, and that's part of what they said in the patch notes. It sucks that ZoS is forcing Players to either pony up for more expensive Legendary mats (the likely course of the Market in 1.6) or do the Writs (which most people hate).

For Kuta the global drop rate in 1.6 is 1.8-2.2%. This combines Hirelings + Aspect nodes + Enchanting Coffers.

Baumlaus · February 2015

The further problem is that with a "significant increase" you should get, like some very often, a 0/700 phase. I mean whats the whole points when you inscrease it but you still get runs where you refine 1000 and get nothing out of it. When have done some testing and therefore used alot of materials at once (50k/10k whatever) but on liveserver you can't just stack up to 20000 ressources to stand there at the end saying "yeah, pretty much 5%". Very often, more always, you are going to refine the 500 you have and when you then get a 0/500 downphase nothing really changed.

helediron · February 2015

@Baumlaus , that is normal with any RNG system. Some day i have refined 2000 mats without any goldens. Some day i have got five from 200. You don't have to stack 20000 mats. But you only torment yourself unnecessary, if you worry about every single refinement batch. Don't give up. I recommend you start writing the numbers down. Look them afterwards after a month or two. There will be bad days but there will be golden days too, literally!

I just updated my refinement results to the other thread, and the golden drop rate was this time 4,9%.

Alphashado · February 2015

The larger issue is how this will effect the perceived value of raw materials and gold tempers. Right now on live, a stack of raw materials sells for roughly 400g - 1.2k. I would expect that to jump up to 2k-3k per stack. Gold tempers are selling right now on live for 2k - 3.5k. I wouldn't be surprised if they double in perceived value to 6k-7k, and Kuta could and probably will move into the 8k-10k range.

So everyone that thinks Hireling rates were a bad thing that facilitated "easy gold" and "market manipulation" are in for a big surprise the next time they go searching for gold tempers or raw materials to buy.

Cody · February 2015

so im never going to get the dreugh wax i need to upgrade all my stuff...

that's wonderful. Time to drop out of school and start re-fining!

Joy_Division · February 2015

I really wish Zenimax would comment on stuff like this. Right now I think they got rid of hireling mats because they want to see the good mats in the cash shop for "convenience," which bothers me because they specifically said "significantly" raised the extraction rates. It all sounds like a bait and switch so they can sell crap in their cash shop.

Zenimax is trying to walk a fine line between buy to pay and pay to win and their silence on this matter is no helping the fears about the cash shop/

Exstazik · February 2015

Alphashado wrote: »

The larger issue is how this will effect the perceived value of raw materials and gold tempers. Right now on live, a stack of raw materials sells for roughly 400g - 1.2k. I would expect that to jump up to 2k-3k per stack. Gold tempers are selling right now on live for 2k - 3.5k. I wouldn't be surprised if they double in perceived value to 6k-7k, and Kuta could and probably will move into the 8k-10k range.

So everyone that thinks Hireling rates were a bad thing that facilitated "easy gold" and "market manipulation" are in for a big surprise the next time they go searching for gold tempers or raw materials to buy.

My math:
I will compare gold with ingame farm time.
1)I farm flowers.3 hours of farm~100 of each type.It's 4 stacks of tri pot+4 stack of spell power+4 stack of weapon power~100k
2)i farm raw materials (not leather).1 hour ~6 stacks.So for 3 hour ~18 stacks.

What we see.18 stacks of raw should cost ~100k....but due a lot of people will farm them let's say decrease it to 70k(on 30%)
so 18=70k.1 stack of raw~3,8k and Gold tempers will be ~9,5k

s7732425ub17_ESO · February 2015

Significant increase = doubled.