[Video] Bow = Low DPS and broken animations, and a possible exploit.

pppontus · February 2015

Hi ZOS & everyone else,

As you may or may not be aware, Bow is sort of broken on the PTS currently and has been since 1.6 was released. It deals very low DPS and a lot of people have been saying that weaving Light Attacks with Snipe is broken, it breaks at certain points, gets stuck in the animation at other points.. etc. All this results in very low DPS on the Bow as a whole.

Anyway, this video illustrates a bug that exists if you Light Attack repeatedly with a Bow and then swap to another weapon (2H in ths case) your Light Attacks just fire off like an automatic rifle. It's possible that this is something that contributes to the issue above? Either way, it probably needs to be solved. It's easily reproducable and you can see it in the video below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1zXmNFY1DE

So please, look into this bug and also I would suggest to do a check of the Bow abilities as a whole, currently Bow is not a viable weapon to use in endgame at all as it deals like 7,5K DPS (compare to 12K for sorcs etc.). If you want to make Bow more interesting to play at the same time I recommend making the DOTS of Scorched Earth and Acid Spray more interesting, and this would be done by increasing their duration first and foremost. I've tried to make a viable Bow build in any way I can but none of the options available work, the DOTS simply lower your DPS as they have to be recast constantly. Snipe deals OK damage but Light Attacks can't be weaved.

Simply put, Stamina users can not, in any situation, go ranged anymore if 1.6 launches like this.

To clarify this is 100% about endgame PVE.

Thank you!

Kuro1n · February 2015

How is it 100% about PVE? Wouldn't this affect PVP as well?

pppontus · February 2015

Kuro1n wrote: »

How is it 100% about PVE? Wouldn't this affect PVP as well?

Bah, I wrote to quickly. I meant my comments about DPS and Bow not being an option are about PVE. I don't know how the state is in PVP so I don't really want 100 comments about "I got ganked with 10K lethal arrow" because I'm not asking for a PVP buff for Bow. Best way to do it imo is increase the dots as that won't impact burst damage which makes PVP people angry. ^^

glitchmaster999 · February 2015

pppontus wrote: »

Hi ZOS & everyone else,

As you may or may not be aware, Bow is sort of broken on the PTS currently and has been since 1.6 was released. It deals very low DPS and a lot of people have been saying that weaving Light Attacks with Snipe is broken, it breaks at certain points, gets stuck in the animation at other points.. etc. All this results in very low DPS on the Bow as a whole.

Anyway, this video illustrates a bug that exists if you Light Attack repeatedly with a Bow and then swap to another weapon (2H in ths case) your Light Attacks just fire off like an automatic rifle. It's possible that this is something that contributes to the issue above? Either way, it probably needs to be solved. It's easily reproducable and you can see it in the video below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1zXmNFY1DE

So please, look into this bug and also I would suggest to do a check of the Bow abilities as a whole, currently Bow is not a viable weapon to use in endgame at all as it deals like 7,5K DPS (compare to 12K for sorcs etc.). If you want to make Bow more interesting to play at the same time I recommend making the DOTS of Scorched Earth and Acid Spray more interesting, and this would be done by increasing their duration first and foremost. I've tried to make a viable Bow build in any way I can but none of the options available work, the DOTS simply lower your DPS as they have to be recast constantly. Snipe deals OK damage but Light Attacks can't be weaved.

Simply put, Stamina users can not, in any situation, go ranged anymore if 1.6 launches like this.

To clarify this is 100% about endgame PVE.

Thank you!

While I agree bows are kind of meh at the moment and agree they need a fix, I think it wouldn't need to be much more than smoothing animations together as a stamina build (with increased survivability) should do the same damage as a magicka build with melee (less safe and can be kited) but trade off that dps for ranged dps. Otherwise if a bow pulls same dps as a destro staff build or a templar or something, then they are both tankier and do the same damage, that is just the definition of imbalance.

pppontus · February 2015

glitchmaster999 wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Hi ZOS & everyone else,

As you may or may not be aware, Bow is sort of broken on the PTS currently and has been since 1.6 was released. It deals very low DPS and a lot of people have been saying that weaving Light Attacks with Snipe is broken, it breaks at certain points, gets stuck in the animation at other points.. etc. All this results in very low DPS on the Bow as a whole.

Anyway, this video illustrates a bug that exists if you Light Attack repeatedly with a Bow and then swap to another weapon (2H in ths case) your Light Attacks just fire off like an automatic rifle. It's possible that this is something that contributes to the issue above? Either way, it probably needs to be solved. It's easily reproducable and you can see it in the video below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1zXmNFY1DE

So please, look into this bug and also I would suggest to do a check of the Bow abilities as a whole, currently Bow is not a viable weapon to use in endgame at all as it deals like 7,5K DPS (compare to 12K for sorcs etc.). If you want to make Bow more interesting to play at the same time I recommend making the DOTS of Scorched Earth and Acid Spray more interesting, and this would be done by increasing their duration first and foremost. I've tried to make a viable Bow build in any way I can but none of the options available work, the DOTS simply lower your DPS as they have to be recast constantly. Snipe deals OK damage but Light Attacks can't be weaved.

Simply put, Stamina users can not, in any situation, go ranged anymore if 1.6 launches like this.

To clarify this is 100% about endgame PVE.

Thank you!

While I agree bows are kind of meh at the moment and agree they need a fix, I think it wouldn't need to be much more than smoothing animations together as a stamina build (with increased survivability) should do the same damage as a magicka build with melee (less safe and can be kited) but trade off that dps for ranged dps. Otherwise if a bow pulls same dps as a destro staff build or a templar or something, then they are both tankier and do the same damage, that is just the definition of imbalance.

Fair enough, I do agree with you on that part. It's just, the difference shouldn't be 8K vs. a 12K ranged sorc or 13K melee DK. Somewhere a bit over 10K, fair enough. Maybe that is done already just by fixing animations, I dunno! We'll see. Just want them to keep an eye on it because it will alienate people a bit. I mean for me it's fine, I'll just never bring my Stamina build to a ranged fight, but a lot of people only have one character.. would suck for them.

glitchmaster999 · February 2015

Yeah I would say the lower end of 9K would be fair, with 70 CP my nb pulls about 10-12k with a two hander depending on the fight and bows should be a fair way off of 2hr's in terms of dps. Have to remember that sorc pet dps is possibly the highest single target magicka build (if the stream I watched was correct).

pppontus · February 2015

glitchmaster999 wrote: »

Yeah I would say the lower end of 9K would be fair, with 70 CP my nb pulls about 10-12k with a two hander depending on the fight and bows should be a fair way off of 2hr's in terms of dps. Have to remember that sorc pet dps is possibly the highest single target magicka build (if the stream I watched was correct).

Of course we should consider that we all do different DPS but in my tests it seems range is generally 10-15% worse than Melee and I think that should apply to Bows as well. It can't go much more lower than that and still be an option.

Alphashado · February 2015

glitchmaster999 wrote: »

Yeah I would say the lower end of 9K would be fair, with 70 CP my nb pulls about 10-12k with a two hander depending on the fight and bows should be a fair way off of 2hr's in terms of dps. Have to remember that sorc pet dps is possibly the highest single target magicka build (if the stream I watched was correct).

Everyone understands that melee should be able to dish out slightly more DPS due to certain fight mechanics causing melee to dodge or block where ranged doesn't have to. But the idea that melee should significantly higher or as you said "a fair amount" higher is absurd in my opinion. The only time melee has to stop attacking where ranged does not have to stop attacking are small circular AoE attacks. This doesn't happen every boss fight or even on a majority of boss fights.

A good tank will keep the boss faced away from the group and a good DPS knows to stay behind the boss. So the amount of times that a melee DPS should have to stop attacking in order to dodge or block compared to ranged is not nearly significant enough to warrant a 3K difference in DPS.

This view point is blown way out of proportion. There are many fights that require ranged DPS to stop their rotation the same as melee such as random AoE splats around the room or buff/debuff circles that you need to enter/exit etc. In fact I would venture a guess that a proper group using proper tank techniques and proper DPS placement runs into fights where melee is at a disadvantage over ranged maybe 1/10 fights.

So please lets stop suggesting that melee are at such a huge disadvantage that melee DPS should consistantly be 2k-4k higher than ranged. That is simply out of balance and you will see Bow and ranged casting builds become unwanted and completely obsolete in groups and raids.

glitchmaster999 · February 2015

Oh yeah I agree it needs to go up, but not by too much. It should be viable dps but still not anywhere near melee stam and ranged skirt/stick.

glitchmaster999 · February 2015

Alphashado wrote: »

glitchmaster999 wrote: »

Yeah I would say the lower end of 9K would be fair, with 70 CP my nb pulls about 10-12k with a two hander depending on the fight and bows should be a fair way off of 2hr's in terms of dps. Have to remember that sorc pet dps is possibly the highest single target magicka build (if the stream I watched was correct).

Everyone understands that melee should be able to dish out slightly more DPS due to certain fight mechanics causing melee to dodge or block where ranged doesn't have to. But the idea that melee should significantly higher or as you said "a fair amount" higher is absurd in my opinion. The only time melee has to stop attacking where ranged does not have to stop attacking are small circular AoE attacks. This doesn't happen every boss fight or even on a majority of boss fights.

A good tank will keep the boss faced away from the group and a good DPS knows to stay behind the boss. So the amount of times that a melee DPS should have to stop attacking in order to dodge or block compared to ranged is not nearly significant enough to warrant a 3K difference in DPS.

-Ash titan - Fire blast have to stop
- Valkyn - fire blast have to stop
- SO - most of it requires ranged or you just die
- Hel Ra - can't dps for whole last stage of first boss due to whirlwind stage, can't stay with warrior as he jumps all over the palce
- Fungal - if you get chained to the tank (which happens a lot) you are both dead so melee isnt really an option, final boss can't dps as melee throughout the whole thing
- Spindle - bloodspawn, without god tier healer can't dps through ground slam stage
- BC - Ryllis jumps around too much, have to cast gap closer which has cast time and reduces dps, cant get orbs very effectivelly
- COH - Final boss is never in one spot, he always teleports away and aoe slams
- DC - you try doing the dwemer as a melee, you might pull 200 dps over the whole fight if you get all poison stages
- Elden Hollow - This is literally the only dungeon where ranged dps doesnt have an advantage.

The list goes on really, doesn't even being to cover PVP, I main a melee NB, I know the problems with being melee. You don't have a bow, you don't go.

Alphashado · February 2015

glitchmaster999 wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

glitchmaster999 wrote: »

Yeah I would say the lower end of 9K would be fair, with 70 CP my nb pulls about 10-12k with a two hander depending on the fight and bows should be a fair way off of 2hr's in terms of dps. Have to remember that sorc pet dps is possibly the highest single target magicka build (if the stream I watched was correct).

Everyone understands that melee should be able to dish out slightly more DPS due to certain fight mechanics causing melee to dodge or block where ranged doesn't have to. But the idea that melee should significantly higher or as you said "a fair amount" higher is absurd in my opinion. The only time melee has to stop attacking where ranged does not have to stop attacking are small circular AoE attacks. This doesn't happen every boss fight or even on a majority of boss fights.

A good tank will keep the boss faced away from the group and a good DPS knows to stay behind the boss. So the amount of times that a melee DPS should have to stop attacking in order to dodge or block compared to ranged is not nearly significant enough to warrant a 3K difference in DPS.

-Ash titan - Fire blast have to stop
- Valkyn - fire blast have to stop
- SO - most of it requires ranged or you just die
- Hel Ra - can't dps for whole last stage of first boss due to whirlwind stage, can't stay with warrior as he jumps all over the palce
- Fungal - if you get chained to the tank (which happens a lot) you are both dead so melee isnt really an option, final boss can't dps as melee throughout the whole thing
- Spindle - bloodspawn, without god tier healer can't dps through ground slam stage
- BC - Ryllis jumps around too much, have to cast gap closer which has cast time and reduces dps, cant get orbs very effectivelly
- COH - Final boss is never in one spot, he always teleports away and aoe slams

The list goes on really, doesn't even being to cover PVP, I main a melee NB, I know the problems with being melee. You don't have a bow, you don't go.

1/10 total boss fights in the game put melee at a disadvantage over ranged. Even if you take that up to 2/10, it's not enough to warrant such a significant difference.
Boss Slam and Teleport are good examples of how this is blown out of proportion. For one thing, most gap closers cause LARGE amounts of damage or either buff you for the next attack or debuff the target on the next attack, plus ranged DPS have to stop and move just like melee when a boss lands on their lap or casts random AoE splats around the room. In addition, it takes a few moments for ranged to locate the boss and resume DPS. About the same amount of time it takes a melee to locate the boss and use a gap closer. Which as I said, usually adds a buff/debuff.

I agree there are times when melee is at a disadvantage, but not enough to warrant the kind of disparity we are seeing right now.

glitchmaster999 · February 2015

Alphashado wrote: »

glitchmaster999 wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

glitchmaster999 wrote: »

Yeah I would say the lower end of 9K would be fair, with 70 CP my nb pulls about 10-12k with a two hander depending on the fight and bows should be a fair way off of 2hr's in terms of dps. Have to remember that sorc pet dps is possibly the highest single target magicka build (if the stream I watched was correct).

Everyone understands that melee should be able to dish out slightly more DPS due to certain fight mechanics causing melee to dodge or block where ranged doesn't have to. But the idea that melee should significantly higher or as you said "a fair amount" higher is absurd in my opinion. The only time melee has to stop attacking where ranged does not have to stop attacking are small circular AoE attacks. This doesn't happen every boss fight or even on a majority of boss fights.

A good tank will keep the boss faced away from the group and a good DPS knows to stay behind the boss. So the amount of times that a melee DPS should have to stop attacking in order to dodge or block compared to ranged is not nearly significant enough to warrant a 3K difference in DPS.

-Ash titan - Fire blast have to stop
- Valkyn - fire blast have to stop
- SO - most of it requires ranged or you just die
- Hel Ra - can't dps for whole last stage of first boss due to whirlwind stage, can't stay with warrior as he jumps all over the palce
- Fungal - if you get chained to the tank (which happens a lot) you are both dead so melee isnt really an option, final boss can't dps as melee throughout the whole thing
- Spindle - bloodspawn, without god tier healer can't dps through ground slam stage
- BC - Ryllis jumps around too much, have to cast gap closer which has cast time and reduces dps, cant get orbs very effectivelly
- COH - Final boss is never in one spot, he always teleports away and aoe slams

The list goes on really, doesn't even being to cover PVP, I main a melee NB, I know the problems with being melee. You don't have a bow, you don't go.

1/10 total boss fights in the game put melee at a disadvantage over ranged. Even if you take that up to 2/10, it's not enough to warrant such a significant difference.
Boss Slam and Teleport are good examples of how this is blown out of proportion. For one thing, most gap closers cause LARGE amounts of damage or either buff you for the next attack or debuff the target on the next attack, plus ranged DPS have to stop and move just like melee when a boss lands on their lap or casts random AoE splats around the room. In addition, it takes a few moments for ranged to locate the boss and resume DPS. About the same amount of time it takes a melee to locate the boss and use a gap closer. Which as I said, usually adds a buff/debuff.

I agree there are times when melee is at a disadvantage, but not enough to warrant the kind of disparity we are seeing right now.

You need to:

a) read above where I said they should be buffed
b) play a damn melee character

1. Gap closers do not cause an increase in dps... the buff to the next attack is nice but not as much as two light attacks and two ability casts. Also takes up a slot that isn't needed on a ranged bar and I don't know about you, but my nightblade has one slot left after buffs on 1.6 and that is for wrecking blow, can't dps with crit charge.
2. I actually laughed... A LOT when you said it takes a phew moments to relocate the boss and resume dps, unless you are utterly useless, the boss teleporting wont even stop your rotation, if he teleports on you, you roll dodge and resume snipe. If you are melee and he teleports on you, you roll dodge, you resume dps but if he teleports on your healer, you have to get with 15m range (which is less than bow abilities) and use a gap closer.... and you still have to locate him which apparently takes time.

You say there are 1/10 boss fights which is a useless stat even if it is true, out of the 7 vet dungeons, 2 require ranged, 6 heavily favour ranged and only one makes little difference, if the difference was the same as it is now, no one would ever go melee. If you pull 10k with a bow, and 10.5k or even 11k with dual weild on a target that stands still imagine what you will be getting on any boss that is mobile i.e. the majority of bosses. Even the lich fight in the easiest dungeon Wayrest sewers you get destroyed by ice and lich crystals as a melee, ranged get a free pass.

Ranged is always at a significant advantage on melee in end game content and if it gets buffed to 11k or even 10k I will never use dual weild or two hander again and neither would any other min/max pve player.

Alphashado · February 2015

glitchmaster999 wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

glitchmaster999 wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

glitchmaster999 wrote: »

Yeah I would say the lower end of 9K would be fair, with 70 CP my nb pulls about 10-12k with a two hander depending on the fight and bows should be a fair way off of 2hr's in terms of dps. Have to remember that sorc pet dps is possibly the highest single target magicka build (if the stream I watched was correct).

Everyone understands that melee should be able to dish out slightly more DPS due to certain fight mechanics causing melee to dodge or block where ranged doesn't have to. But the idea that melee should significantly higher or as you said "a fair amount" higher is absurd in my opinion. The only time melee has to stop attacking where ranged does not have to stop attacking are small circular AoE attacks. This doesn't happen every boss fight or even on a majority of boss fights.

A good tank will keep the boss faced away from the group and a good DPS knows to stay behind the boss. So the amount of times that a melee DPS should have to stop attacking in order to dodge or block compared to ranged is not nearly significant enough to warrant a 3K difference in DPS.

-Ash titan - Fire blast have to stop
- Valkyn - fire blast have to stop
- SO - most of it requires ranged or you just die
- Hel Ra - can't dps for whole last stage of first boss due to whirlwind stage, can't stay with warrior as he jumps all over the palce
- Fungal - if you get chained to the tank (which happens a lot) you are both dead so melee isnt really an option, final boss can't dps as melee throughout the whole thing
- Spindle - bloodspawn, without god tier healer can't dps through ground slam stage
- BC - Ryllis jumps around too much, have to cast gap closer which has cast time and reduces dps, cant get orbs very effectivelly
- COH - Final boss is never in one spot, he always teleports away and aoe slams

The list goes on really, doesn't even being to cover PVP, I main a melee NB, I know the problems with being melee. You don't have a bow, you don't go.

1/10 total boss fights in the game put melee at a disadvantage over ranged. Even if you take that up to 2/10, it's not enough to warrant such a significant difference.
Boss Slam and Teleport are good examples of how this is blown out of proportion. For one thing, most gap closers cause LARGE amounts of damage or either buff you for the next attack or debuff the target on the next attack, plus ranged DPS have to stop and move just like melee when a boss lands on their lap or casts random AoE splats around the room. In addition, it takes a few moments for ranged to locate the boss and resume DPS. About the same amount of time it takes a melee to locate the boss and use a gap closer. Which as I said, usually adds a buff/debuff.

I agree there are times when melee is at a disadvantage, but not enough to warrant the kind of disparity we are seeing right now.

You need to:

a) read above where I said they should be buffed
b) play a damn melee character

1. Gap closers do not cause an increase in dps... the buff to the next attack is nice but not as much as two light attacks and two ability casts. Also takes up a slot that isn't needed on a ranged bar and I don't know about you, but my nightblade has one slot left after buffs on 1.6 and that is for wrecking blow, can't dps with crit charge.
2. I actually laughed... A LOT when you said it takes a phew moments to relocate the boss and resume dps, unless you are utterly useless, the boss teleporting wont even stop your rotation, if he teleports on you, you roll dodge and resume snipe. If you are melee and he teleports on you, you roll dodge, you resume dps but if he teleports on your healer, you have to get with 15m range (which is less than bow abilities) and use a gap closer.... and you still have to locate him which apparently takes time.

You say there are 1/10 boss fights which is a useless stat even if it is true, out of the 7 vet dungeons, 2 require ranged, 6 heavily favour ranged and only one makes little difference, if the difference was the same as it is now, no one would ever go melee. If you pull 10k with a bow, and 10.5k or even 11k with dual weild on a target that stands still imagine what you will be getting on any boss that is mobile i.e. the majority of bosses. Even the lich fight in the easiest dungeon Wayrest sewers you get destroyed by ice and lich crystals as a melee, ranged get a free pass.

Ranged is always at a significant advantage on melee in end game content and if it gets buffed to 11k or even 10k I will never use dual weild or two hander again and neither would any other min/max pve player.

First of all, I didn't say that gap closers caused an increase in DPS. I said that the buff/debuffs you get from using them are certainly NOT a disadvantage. Secondly, I also said that relocating a boss after a teleport takes the same amount of time for a ranged as it does for melee. Or are you suggesting that as melee you can't see the entire room anymore? Are you suggesting that it's hard to locate a teleporting boss and hit your gap closer? Are you suggesting that it's any harder to do this than it is to locate the boss as ranged and resume rotation? Gap closers hit hard, DO NOT put you at a disadvantage, and are just as easy to click on your bar as any other skill. I will concede to your point that a gap closer takes up space on your bar that could be used for a difference buff/DoT/etc. This is one of many reasons, like you said, that there should be a slight difference. Slight being the key word here. What we have right now is a margin of upwards to 80% increase in melee DPS over ranged. 9k compaired to 15k is way, way too much of a difference.

Go right ahead and convince ZoS to keep melee DPS builds at 12k - 15K while the Bow is at 8k - 9k and see what happens. You won't have balance. You will have exclusion.

Father · February 2015

This happend to me as well but with 2h light attack casting a skill won't break it only block breaks it.

Erock25 · February 2015

pppontus wrote: »

Hi ZOS & everyone else,

As you may or may not be aware, Bow is sort of broken on the PTS currently and has been since 1.6 was released. It deals very low DPS and a lot of people have been saying that weaving Light Attacks with Snipe is broken, it breaks at certain points, gets stuck in the animation at other points.. etc. All this results in very low DPS on the Bow as a whole.

Anyway, this video illustrates a bug that exists if you Light Attack repeatedly with a Bow and then swap to another weapon (2H in ths case) your Light Attacks just fire off like an automatic rifle. It's possible that this is something that contributes to the issue above? Either way, it probably needs to be solved. It's easily reproducable and you can see it in the video below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1zXmNFY1DE

So please, look into this bug and also I would suggest to do a check of the Bow abilities as a whole, currently Bow is not a viable weapon to use in endgame at all as it deals like 7,5K DPS (compare to 12K for sorcs etc.). If you want to make Bow more interesting to play at the same time I recommend making the DOTS of Scorched Earth and Acid Spray more interesting, and this would be done by increasing their duration first and foremost. I've tried to make a viable Bow build in any way I can but none of the options available work, the DOTS simply lower your DPS as they have to be recast constantly. Snipe deals OK damage but Light Attacks can't be weaved.

Simply put, Stamina users can not, in any situation, go ranged anymore if 1.6 launches like this.

To clarify this is 100% about endgame PVE.

Thank you!

Did you just try to compare bow DPS to your 30 second sorc fight where you parsed 11.3k (not 12k) and had an ultimate up the whole time? Does your bow parse include an ultimate over a 30 second fight?

Aldarenn · February 2015

pppontus wrote: »

Hi ZOS & everyone else,

Simply put, Stamina users can not, in any situation, go ranged anymore if 1.6 launches like this.

To clarify this is 100% about endgame PVE.

Thank you!

Stamina users are being preferred over light armor, people are ditching the staves for the bow and 2h.

And you shouldn't neglect the PvP community, either.

xylena · February 2015

bow feels much more balanced in 1.6... snipe should never have been doing more damage than crystal frags or uppercut like it was in 1.5... why worry about bow dps, instead develop the skill to switch smoothly between poison injection and snipe to a gap closer and melee attack weave

the range vs melee balance on 1.6 is far better than anything we've seen up to this point... of course melee has to do more damage, it's much higher risk than sitting back attacking at range, both pvp and pve... when the new update goes live, all the pvp 2H complaints are going to disappear when people realize how difficult it is to melee fight in open world... not gonna be so easy to spam wrecking blow when you're being hit from multiple directions by siege, snipes, radiant destruction, aoe spam, hard cc...

kalunte · February 2015

what about that dps from long range dont allows you to benefit from heals? melee are always in healing range, not bows, complaining about some kind of "going to melee is more dangerous" is kinda "unfair" argument when knowing how both pvp and pve is in eso since the very beginning of the game. that's an another reason why bows sucks, they have to be in long range for maxing their dps while doing so also put yourself out of veils, negate, heal, synergy range, everything, it is way more dangerous to be ranged than melee in 4/5 situations when you are not playing alone.

pppontus · February 2015

xylena wrote: »

bow feels much more balanced in 1.6... snipe should never have been doing more damage than crystal frags or uppercut like it was in 1.5... why worry about bow dps, instead develop the skill to switch smoothly between poison injection and snipe to a gap closer and melee attack weave

the range vs melee balance on 1.6 is far better than anything we've seen up to this point... of course melee has to do more damage, it's much higher risk than sitting back attacking at range, both pvp and pve... when the new update goes live, all the pvp 2H complaints are going to disappear when people realize how difficult it is to melee fight in open world... not gonna be so easy to spam wrecking blow when you're being hit from multiple directions by siege, snipes, radiant destruction, aoe spam, hard cc...

I suggest you develop your reading comprehension then re-reading my post. I don't want snipe buffed, look at that video, the animations are *** I.e. bugged which makes it lower DPS? Does that seem normal to you?

I'd much rather see a duration increase on scorched earth and acid spray so that it requires more skill than snipe snipe snipe. Either way currently it doesn't work any other way than snipe snipe snipe and even that doesn't really work.

I also said I'm not talking about pvp, so yeah. I don't know anything about pvp and bows.

Aldarenn wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Hi ZOS & everyone else,

Simply put, Stamina users can not, in any situation, go ranged anymore if 1.6 launches like this.

To clarify this is 100% about endgame PVE.

Thank you!

Stamina users are being preferred over light armor, people are ditching the staves for the bow and 2h.

And you shouldn't neglect the PvP community, either.

You're wrong. If someone ditches a staff for bow they are .. not right in the head, atm.

Erock25 wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Hi ZOS & everyone else,

As you may or may not be aware, Bow is sort of broken on the PTS currently and has been since 1.6 was released. It deals very low DPS and a lot of people have been saying that weaving Light Attacks with Snipe is broken, it breaks at certain points, gets stuck in the animation at other points.. etc. All this results in very low DPS on the Bow as a whole.

Anyway, this video illustrates a bug that exists if you Light Attack repeatedly with a Bow and then swap to another weapon (2H in ths case) your Light Attacks just fire off like an automatic rifle. It's possible that this is something that contributes to the issue above? Either way, it probably needs to be solved. It's easily reproducable and you can see it in the video below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1zXmNFY1DE

So please, look into this bug and also I would suggest to do a check of the Bow abilities as a whole, currently Bow is not a viable weapon to use in endgame at all as it deals like 7,5K DPS (compare to 12K for sorcs etc.). If you want to make Bow more interesting to play at the same time I recommend making the DOTS of Scorched Earth and Acid Spray more interesting, and this would be done by increasing their duration first and foremost. I've tried to make a viable Bow build in any way I can but none of the options available work, the DOTS simply lower your DPS as they have to be recast constantly. Snipe deals OK damage but Light Attacks can't be weaved.

Simply put, Stamina users can not, in any situation, go ranged anymore if 1.6 launches like this.

To clarify this is 100% about endgame PVE.

Thank you!

Did you just try to compare bow DPS to your 30 second sorc fight where you parsed 11.3k (not 12k) and had an ultimate up the whole time? Does your bow parse include an ultimate over a 30 second fight?

Ulti wasn't even expired when the thing ended. If you know anything about dps meters and sustained rotations you'd get this but I'll explain. When you start a fight your dps climbs up to a certain point where it bottlenecks and usually stabilises, in my sorc vid that doesn't happen, you can see dos is still going up when the mob dies. Also if the rotation is unsustainable you get to a point where dps drops but that's irrelevant to these tests.

Anyway sorc does NOT stabilise at 11,3k meaning the DPS is higher than that, my bow bottlenecks at about 7,5k. And yes, without ulti but even if you add the 1800 dps from a storm atronach it's still sub 10k bottleneck which is awful.

Anyway let's just stop comparing things because everyone clearly has their own view of what dps is what etc. so we can't get anywhere with that.

Imo ranged should have 10-15% less than melee but that is not th case with bow.

The most important thing is that the light attack bug needs to be fixed because it's a pita to use the bow regardless of how bad or good it is.

Deathztalker · February 2015

I just tested the bow/2h bug on the PTS and I can confirm it does not work in PVP and it does not work when you're fighting things. The bug only seems to work when you are not attacking anything? Yes the bug does exist but it don't seem game breaking.

Feel free to provide a video showing how you can use this bug to kill something where we can see numbers.

pppontus · February 2015

Deathztalker wrote: »

I just tested the bow/2h bug on the PTS and I can confirm it does not work in PVP and it does not work when you're fighting things. The bug only seems to work when you are not attacking anything? Yes the bug does exist but it don't seem game breaking.

Feel free to provide a video showing how you can use this bug to kill something where we can see numbers.

Good to hear anyway. I'll see if I can reproduce it IC. Very strange if it doesn't work out of combat just for being in Cyro? That would mean animations are different?? Hm.