1.6 Shield stacking - how bad is it really?

Seraphyel · February 2015

Hey there,

I never knew how awful shield stacking is / was but I found this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC8If_dn0SU

And I really have to say: OH MY GOSH.

I have never seen such bull* in PvP. All I see is shield stacking and healing up. Is that even serious PvP? It's horrible and I appreciate compelling fights but the things shown in the video are just horrible.

How can a developer enforce this?

Is it better in 1.6 or is it worse?

Panda244 · February 2015

Following math based on the x10 policy that we all know and love, but isn't actually x10
Damage shields are reduced by 15% in Cyrodiil come 1.6, but it won't change anything...

So lets see. Igneous Shield on live gives me a 950 damage shield exactly. Of course the following is based on the x10 speculation which we all know is a lie

950x10 = 9500

15% of 9500 = 1425

9500 - 1425 = 8075

Average Health Pool = 25,000

8075 = 32.3% of 25,000

Copy pasted this from another post of mine, just goes to show that as a Dragonknight you can already cover 32% of your health with one ability, and that's not including Harness Magicka, Hardened Armor, Healing Ward, etc etc etc.

It'll be bad in 1.6, it's always been a problem, I've never had an issue with it because I hardly ever come across 1v1 fights where the opponent just spams shields.

Iyas · February 2015

you know this is a 1.5.7 video?

Seraphyel · February 2015

Iyas wrote: »

you know this is a 1.5.7 video?

Yeah that's why I ask for 1.6.

ToRelax · February 2015

I really don't see the issue here, in the end it comes down to the resources you spent... (hint, we have close to endless resources in 1.6

)

Also you shouldn't make your opinion based on the gameplay in this video. It's mediocre at best and still he is always winning, no wonder - people just rarely put clips of themselves loosing in their videos, or it is while being highly outnumbered.

Edit: "close to endless resources" for builds very focused on mainly one, maybe 2 resources. Just cutting regen would gimp hybrids even further.

Seraphyel · February 2015

I saw at least three other videos from different guys where it has been exactly the same.

No issue besides the fact that spamming heals and shields feels abysmal?

ToRelax · February 2015

Seraphyel wrote: »

I saw at least three other videos from different guys where it has been exactly the same.

No issue besides the fact that spamming heals and shields feels abysmal?

It is not needed in 1.5. I agree that it is a problem in 1.6 though we will see about what happens now in 1.63. Pre 1.5 it was overpowered because of the Synergy provided by Harness Magicka, reducing damage on "outer shields" and restoring magicka with it.

I don't like shield stacking, so I don't have to use it in 1.5, if you want to show how bad it is in 1.6, however, go ahead.
I can assure you I wouldn't have a problem against the build shown in the video in 1.5 with my destro/resto setup and only Hardened Ward or Harness Magicka, not both.
You see him low on resources often enough in the video, and since 1.5, shield stacking is not a solution to get resources back.

Problem really comes down to the resource game, wich I can play endlessly in 1.6 while shieldstacking and then eventually bursting my opponent down in the right moment (if I don't he'll probably never die as he has just as many resources as I have).

edit: clarifying what i wrote...

indigoblades · February 2015

all i saw him use was harden ward. Its not shield stacking unless two shields are used.

Domander · February 2015

Panda244 wrote: »

Damage shields are reduced by 15% in Cyrodiil come 1.6, but it won't change anything...

So lets see. Igneous Shield on live gives me a 950 damage shield exactly. Of course the following is based on the x10 speculation which we all know is a lie

950x10 = 9500

15% of 9500 = 1425

9500 - 1425 = 8075

Average Health Pool = 25,000

8075 = 32.3% of 25,000

Copy pasted this from another post of mine, just goes to show that as a Dragonknight you can already cover 32% of your health with one ability, and that's not including Harness Magicka, Hardened Armor, Healing Ward, etc etc etc.

It'll be bad in 1.6, it's always been a problem, I've never had an issue with it because I hardly ever come across 1v1 fights where the opponent just spams shields.

Igneous scales off health, health is nerfed in 1.6, so this math is kinda pointless.

Panda244 · February 2015

Domander wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Damage shields are reduced by 15% in Cyrodiil come 1.6, but it won't change anything...

So lets see. Igneous Shield on live gives me a 950 damage shield exactly. Of course the following is based on the x10 speculation which we all know is a lie

950x10 = 9500

15% of 9500 = 1425

9500 - 1425 = 8075

Average Health Pool = 25,000

8075 = 32.3% of 25,000

Copy pasted this from another post of mine, just goes to show that as a Dragonknight you can already cover 32% of your health with one ability, and that's not including Harness Magicka, Hardened Armor, Healing Ward, etc etc etc.

It'll be bad in 1.6, it's always been a problem, I've never had an issue with it because I hardly ever come across 1v1 fights where the opponent just spams shields.

Igneous scales off health, health is nerfed in 1.6, so this math is kinda pointless.

I'm aware, I pointed out that it was based on the x10 policy that we all know and love. (Sarcasm intended)

Edit: K.. No i didn't, herpa derpa... Idiot Panda moment. Fixed original post, to lazy to fix the quote.

Cody · February 2015

I did not watch the video; as damage shield spam/stacking disgusts me and i cant stand to even watch it anymore.

its not a problem in 1.5, but in 1.6 its a nightmare.

what sucks the most, is many people support and like this ridiculous type of "PvP", so it could possibly never be fixed.

I am hoping ZOS gets it fixed before 1.6 goes live. I myself will not play PvP if it turns into a damage shield spam/stack meta. I will not let myself be forced into some resto staff build that i do not want all because of flawed game design.

/sigh

I really need to cool off.... maybe watch family guy or something.

yeah, ill go watch family guy. goodnight peeps.

Panda244 · February 2015

Cody wrote: »

I did not watch the video; as damage shield spam/stacking disgusts me and i cant stand to even watch it anymore.

its not a problem in 1.5, but in 1.6 its a nightmare.

what sucks the most, is many people support and like this ridiculous type of "PvP", so it could possibly never be fixed.

I am hoping ZOS gets it fixed before 1.6 goes live. I myself will not play PvP if it turns into a damage shield spam/stack meta. I will not let myself be forced into some resto staff build that i do not want all because of flawed game design.

/sigh

I really need to cool off.... maybe watch family guy or something.

yeah, ill go watch family guy. goodnight peeps.

lol night Cody, as I proposed in Sypher's post, simple fix for shield stacking is making disease effect them.

xylena · February 2015

first impressions of the 1.6.3 shield nerf is that there's no more need to complain about shield stacks, if anything they're a little flimsy against snipes and wrecking blows (and i'm on the sniping/wrecking side of that)

Cody · February 2015

xylena wrote: »

first impressions of the 1.6.3 shield nerf is that there's no more need to complain about shield stacks, if anything they're a little flimsy against snipes and wrecking blows (and i'm on the sniping/wrecking side of that)

saw this right before i got off for the night.

So now they have gone from being OP to useless?

bosmern_ESO · February 2015

I'd say shield stacking is even worse in 1.6.

If you want to win any fight in 1.6.3 all you have to do is stack a few shields then wrecking blow spam and you win.

It seriously takes skill out of PvP, and If they keep the way shields are I will never take dueler who stacks shields seriously.

Players should only be able to get one shield on them at a time, not be able to spam shields and get 30k+ damage shields. PvP is fun when you can actually damage your enemies.

Syldayan · February 2015

Why they dont put them on a minor shield buff and major shield buff ???

This made less stacking for sure

Seraphyel · February 2015

indigoblades wrote: »

all i saw him use was harden ward. Its not shield stacking unless two shields are used.

And his opponents used Healing Ward, Hardened Ward, Sun Shield etc.

It's not about the maker of the video and it really has nothing to do with him, it's just about the whole gameplay in the video.

Shield -> shield -> shield -> little damage -> damage -> shield -> heal -> shield -> shield -> damage -> heal -> heal -> shield -> shield etc.

That's how it looks on both sides and I think that's unbearable.

olemanwinter · February 2015

Yes. It's still bad on PTS (maybe worse when you consider the armor buffs).

See the thread on my experience here:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/152121/1-6-eso-goes-from-one-extreme-to-the-other-or-why-do-i-suck-so-bad-now#latest

cozmon3c_ESO · February 2015

Leper here
Cool how you pulled my video dude, this is a video of some longer fights I did in 1.5.7. Things you should know about my play style the.

- i avoid sheild stacking, when it was strong in 1.3 I still didn't use it. I saw it as an exploit and I thought ZOS saw it as such as well, but apparently I was mistaken. In 1.6 if you are in light armor and do not sheild stack you are dead in 1-3 hits. This is completely broken imo.

-in 1.5 i am forced to use sword and board because of Dragon knight's reflect spam and the most efficient way to win against the hoards of dk reflect spammed is to reflect it back at them. Because of this, it also makes killing the other three classes longer and more of a resource race. In 1.6 I am forced to use a destruction staff to even try and compete with stamina build damage from all the classes and I can tell you sorc damage is not really keeping up. When most my life disappears with stacked Sheilds in a 1-2 hits from stam build and Im just tickling them in comparison, balance is way out of wack.

- in 1.5 and 1.6 I'm forced to use a resto staff as a sorc, we have no reliable self heal and the best heal in the general happens to be a shield, healing ward. If I had this ability as a sorc ability I could very well use two different weapons. Like you see dk's and templars doing like for example, bow and two hand.

Since you are so interested in my videos (in a mocking manner) here are a couple more.

http://youtu.be/qa88nmsm1sY

http://youtu.be/hXMhsaeMZ9I

Cody · February 2015

based on my experience in PTS today....

lets just say it was not a fun experience.

If players really consider this kind of gameplay fun, then I must be the most boring player in ESO

Francescolg · February 2015

Shieldstacking for me as a Templar is the only way to survive vs. Talons-spamming DKs (I meet these in all larger fights), since Radiant Aura will soon be nurfed to 20%, my stamina-regeneration simply can't keep up vs. the third, or even the fourth Talons DK spam. I tried Rapid Maneuvre but it's immunity isn't guaranteed. So I can choose between Blazing Shield + purge/puriyfing or rolling outta 2-4 times and then die out ouf Stamina..

Second typical PvP-situation is given when you have 1-2 archers on you with double heal debuff (snipe + disease x2). Here you can choose between a debuff + heal which often won't work due to the next double snipe + disease reapplied, or popping my blazing shield and doing the debuff in between, while maintaining blazing shield up. Every other defense doesn't work cause 1-2 archers are too much!
I repeat: the person responsible for snipe (widest range, heal-debuff, highest DD/distance) should strongly reconsinder to further work on PvP-balancing of classes..

Too much goodies in one skill! WHY don't you avoid such imbalances? Especiall now that stamina gets buffed, they noticed that bow might be a little bit to strong... lol
Vs. NBs I need Immovable even more, depends on situation.

There still is by far too much CC in this game and getting chain-rooted (Talons) without any chance to be immune for a shortest while is a buzzkill for me. We had it today, when trying to catch up the enemy scroll-group. DKs where effectvely stopping everything and everybody, much more effective then caltrops, oil cata, etc... etc...

Francescolg · February 2015

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Since you are so interested in my videos (in a mocking manner) here are a couple more.

I think he did you a big favor showing Your video

More publicity!

And you are not Britney Spears, so..

cozmon3c_ESO · February 2015

Francescolg wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Since you are so interested in my videos (in a mocking manner) here are a couple more.

I think he did you a big favor showing Your video More publicity!

And you are not Britney Spears, so..

But my head is shaved

Panda244 · February 2015

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Since you are so interested in my videos (in a mocking manner) here are a couple more.

I think he did you a big favor showing Your video More publicity!

And you are not Britney Spears, so..

But my head is shaved

Grow it out, buzz cut it. Problem. Solved. I think...

cozmon3c_ESO · February 2015

Panda244 wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Since you are so interested in my videos (in a mocking manner) here are a couple more.

I think he did you a big favor showing Your video More publicity!

And you are not Britney Spears, so..

But my head is shaved

Grow it out, buzz cut it. Problem. Solved. I think...

I so wish I had a lol button right now lol.

Panda244 · February 2015

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Since you are so interested in my videos (in a mocking manner) here are a couple more.

I think he did you a big favor showing Your video More publicity!

And you are not Britney Spears, so..

But my head is shaved

Grow it out, buzz cut it. Problem. Solved. I think...

I so wish I had a lol button right now lol.

You and me both bud... You and me both.... Stage a revolt? Start the rebellion? Shall I assemble the pitchforks?!?

Impressive video though, have watched mostly every ESO youtuber in PvP, even the german ones, but not you... Goes all stalker like on youtube

Seraphyel · February 2015

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Leper here
Cool how you pulled my video dude, this is a video of some longer fights I did in 1.5.7. Things you should know about my play style the.

- i avoid sheild stacking, when it was strong in 1.3 I still didn't use it. I saw it as an exploit and I thought ZOS saw it as such as well, but apparently I was mistaken. In 1.6 if you are in light armor and do not sheild stack you are dead in 1-3 hits. This is completely broken imo.

-in 1.5 i am forced to use sword and board because of Dragon knight's reflect spam and the most efficient way to win against the hoards of dk reflect spammed is to reflect it back at them. Because of this, it also makes killing the other three classes longer and more of a resource race. In 1.6 I am forced to use a destruction staff to even try and compete with stamina build damage from all the classes and I can tell you sorc damage is not really keeping up. When most my life disappears with stacked Sheilds in a 1-2 hits from stam build and Im just tickling them in comparison, balance is way out of wack.

- in 1.5 and 1.6 I'm forced to use a resto staff as a sorc, we have no reliable self heal and the best heal in the general happens to be a shield, healing ward. If I had this ability as a sorc ability I could very well use two different weapons. Like you see dk's and templars doing like for example, bow and two hand.

Since you are so interested in my videos (in a mocking manner) here are a couple more.

http://youtu.be/qa88nmsm1sY

http://youtu.be/hXMhsaeMZ9I

Hey you,

as I said, I don't want to insult, accuse or defame you, I just looked for some good Sorc vids and I found yours (and I enjoyed your playstyle, really). That I took it for this thread was just coincidence, could have been another video from another guy, but I choose yours because some fights lasted for minutes - because of the topic I mention here. Nevertheless, I picked your videos, cause they are great to show how... I don't even know a word to describe it ... PvP in ESO is right now.

Thanks for the clarification and I for sure will enjoy your other videos!

Derra · February 2015

Well the other side of the medal is. What do you expect a sorc to do without using those shields? You would be dead in seconds.
The class needs a complete revamp if you want to get rid of that playstyle.

DDuke · February 2015

Derra wrote: »

Well the other side of the medal is. What do you expect a sorc to do without using those shields? You would be dead in seconds.
The class needs a complete revamp if you want to get rid of that playstyle.

All classes need a revamp in that case, the TTK isn't higher for any other class not utilizing a shield. It currently doesn't matter whether it's a Templar healer I'm attacking or a DK, they're all dead in <0,1 seconds from stealth burst & <1 second out of stealth.

A good way to go about this would be significantly increasing health in Cyrodiil for everyone (ofc, keeping things like Blazing Shield, GDB etc in mind...).

cozmon3c_ESO · February 2015

Shield stacking seems to be the new meta for every class atm, i do not really like to have to reapply 3 sheilds every 6 seconds, it makes for boring play. people live forever because of this, but once those sheilds are gone and you are not in heavy armor, say by by. games broken imo.

the way they have stats set up totally negates the use of hybrid builds, you either have to be all stam or all magicka.
the way the armor is set up you dont have an even flow of who is supposed to take out what.

should be:
heavy armor: high armor - low spell resist : be good at taking out stam builds by mitigating stam damage. good tanks. Barely mobile.

Medium armor: medium armor - medium spell resist: be good at taking out light armor for its lack of armor protection. stam dps. Some what mobile.

Light armor: low armor - High spell resist : be good at taking out heavy armor wearers for its lack of spell resist. Highly mobile

Seraphyel · February 2015

I agree with you and I am really concerned why Zenimax doesn't do something about it.