3.6k CP makes you unkillable.

bosmern_ESO · February 2015

I've noticed something in the recent update in the PTS. The last time I played before 1.6.3 and everyone had 70 champion points the pvp seemed to be very balanced and was a lot of fun.

But in the recent update where template classes where you get 3.6k Champion points it seems that you cannot kill anyone as long as they spam daamge shields. Even with the 15% reduced shields in PvP they are very powerful, If I broke through the 30k+ damage shields the enemy will just stack them again and heal whatever amount of damage I've done.

I'm not saying Damage shields need to get nerfed into the ground because they are great and everyone can use them, which most of everyone does. But it just gets completely overpowered and broken with tons of champion points to back them up.

Cody · February 2015

indeed.

Lava_Croft · February 2015

I think it's pretty obvious that in it's current state, the Champion System completely breaks the game after spending a certain amount of Champion Points.

I see 1.6 as the first step in another year of disguised beta testing and have already come to peace with the fact that it won't be until 2016 that there will be any resemblence of 'balance'.

At least ZOS has been so kind to provide people with a cheaper way to beta test this game with the birth of Tamriel Unlimited.

Ommamar · February 2015

Yes but the 3600 champion points won't carry over to live so when it first releases you will again have the balance that you spoke of. 6 months from update 6....well I guess we will see.

Rydik · February 2015

1 cp will be 400k exp, it's 100k with enlighment, if you not a no lifer, you will get around 2-5 cp per day+-, it's 5-2 years for obtain 3600cp, not worth talking about it right now.

bosmern_ESO · February 2015

Rydik wrote: »

1 cp will be 400k exp, it's 100k with enlighment, if you not a no lifer, you will get around 2-5 cp per day+-, it's 5-2 years for obtain 3600cp, not worth talking about it right now.

Yes but if it doesn't get fixed in PTS (which is why they gave us 3.6k CP and the whole reason PTS is there) when someone gets it in Live it will be extremely powerful when that one person gets it, I would really like to have that not be the case.

Tamanous · February 2015

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Rydik wrote: »

1 cp will be 400k exp, it's 100k with enlighment, if you not a no lifer, you will get around 2-5 cp per day+-, it's 5-2 years for obtain 3600cp, not worth talking about it right now.

Yes but if it doesn't get fixed in PTS (which is why they gave us 3.6k CP and the whole reason PTS is there) when someone gets it in Live it will be extremely powerful when that one person gets it, I would really like to have that not be the case.

You admit they are testing it and you are talking about it on the test forum. Do you not think ZOS is obtaining information about this? Why did they even test 3.6k if not for information on such massive points? Even if they don't address it within 3 months of release do you think anyone will have anywhere near 3.6k in 3 months?

Every single ability and system collectively causing this issue could be address individually by the time 3.6k is obtained after release (minus exploits to obtain more outside of the normal curve). I am not convinced this is a concern worth more than simply mentioning it right now as it impacts a testing environment.

TheBull · February 2015

Things are extremely burst 3600cp. Fight can last 5 secs, or 10 mins ending in a 3 shot combo.

JackDaniell · February 2015

You can kill people with 3600 CP, but it also requires you to have 3600 CP and play a Glass Cannon build (or have at least enough CP to give yourself every build applicable passive you need). At this moment their is only one player I have fought who has a build so tanky that I cannot kill it, but it again relies on holding block. I have not tried excessive stamina drain yet but I am thinking this may be my builds foil as his sustain is quite high.

Glass Cannon stamina NB = shields stacking sorcs worst nightmare, I did not tie or loose to a single sorc (save one, but he was not shield stacking and was also a glass cannon so that does not really effect this discussion) prior to the 15% shield nerf so it should be even easier now to take them down. The way to do it is to hit so hard that they cannot afford to stop mashing shields, they will either eventually run out of shields or they wont be able to survive. OFC throw in that stun every 5 secconds, press both recourse pools. Hitting 30k+ combos in a quarter second helps allot to.

On 3600 CP tanks and well rounded builds will have a near impossible time killing each other however, the recourse sustain is just to high for them to outlast the other assuming they play well. Neither of them would really have the damage to take the other down with a good combo so it would be an endless fight. Burst seems like the only real viable end of champion system PvP build if you want to be able to kill anyone with as many CP as you. If you go less damage for your end build then you may find yourself unable to kill many like mindedly defensive players.

On the plus side, the builds that counter these tanks are extremely squishy and die very quickly (roughly 2300 HP pools with no shields). The sorcs that are playing the super low HP and scaling magicka to 50K+ for bigger shields are actually easier to kill, if they miss a single ward refresh they likely die instantly to burst.

But I will say, I did quite a few duels with 120CP on my toon and was fighting 3600 CP. I got slaughtered, the only people I could kill were players who had no clue what they were doing. They would quickly learn to play more defensive against me however and the second fight was much more difficult. Anyone who had hung around a dueling ground for longer than an hour was incredibly difficult to take down and survive against.

Darkintellect · February 2015

Rydik wrote: »

1 cp will be 400k exp, it's 100k with enlighment, if you not a no lifer, you will get around 2-5 cp per day+-, it's 5-2 years for obtain 3600cp, not worth talking about it right now.

This in every way possible is the reason we aren't worried. Also, PvE is being adjusted with regard to those levels as was the reason for last week and this week's testing.

As for PVP, it may have more of an effect but currently the nerf to DK's, Vamps and Ult generation tip the hat the other way and is a bit more impactful than Champion points at the moment.

The 3600 Champion Points scenario is easily the least of our problems currently.

Kragorn · February 2015

As I see it, all this shows is that the DR curve on CPs needs a faster decay.

Khami · February 2015

Tamanous wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Rydik wrote: »

1 cp will be 400k exp, it's 100k with enlighment, if you not a no lifer, you will get around 2-5 cp per day+-, it's 5-2 years for obtain 3600cp, not worth talking about it right now.

Yes but if it doesn't get fixed in PTS (which is why they gave us 3.6k CP and the whole reason PTS is there) when someone gets it in Live it will be extremely powerful when that one person gets it, I would really like to have that not be the case.

You admit they are testing it and you are talking about it on the test forum. Do you not think ZOS is obtaining information about this? Why did they even test 3.6k if not for information on such massive points? Even if they don't address it within 3 months of release do you think anyone will have anywhere near 3.6k in 3 months?

Every single ability and system collectively causing this issue could be address individually by the time 3.6k is obtained after release (minus exploits to obtain more outside of the normal curve). I am not convinced this is a concern worth more than simply mentioning it right now as it impacts a testing environment.

Ask yourself this, why did it take them 3 patches on PTS before they even gave the players all the CP available? I'm not sure they want to know how unbalance their game will get in the future. The only reason they put all the points on PTS is because the players demanded it.

Sad if you ask me. I swear this dev team has no idea what they're really doing.

If anyone has any alts, leveling those will also give you the CPs. You don't have to grind, grind away with one character, people will grind away with all 8 of them. They'll have all 3600 CP faster than the devs thought possible.

Count on it.

McDoogs · February 2015

Khami wrote: »

Tamanous wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Rydik wrote: »

1 cp will be 400k exp, it's 100k with enlighment, if you not a no lifer, you will get around 2-5 cp per day+-, it's 5-2 years for obtain 3600cp, not worth talking about it right now.

Yes but if it doesn't get fixed in PTS (which is why they gave us 3.6k CP and the whole reason PTS is there) when someone gets it in Live it will be extremely powerful when that one person gets it, I would really like to have that not be the case.

You admit they are testing it and you are talking about it on the test forum. Do you not think ZOS is obtaining information about this? Why did they even test 3.6k if not for information on such massive points? Even if they don't address it within 3 months of release do you think anyone will have anywhere near 3.6k in 3 months?

Every single ability and system collectively causing this issue could be address individually by the time 3.6k is obtained after release (minus exploits to obtain more outside of the normal curve). I am not convinced this is a concern worth more than simply mentioning it right now as it impacts a testing environment.

Ask yourself this, why did it take them 3 patches on PTS before they even gave the players all the CP available? I'm not sure they want to know how unbalance their game will get in the future. The only reason they put all the points on PTS is because the players demanded it.

Sad if you ask me. I swear this dev team has no idea what they're really doing.

If anyone has any alts, leveling those will also give you the CPs. You don't have to grind, grind away with one character, people will grind away with all 8 of them. They'll have all 3600 CP faster than the devs thought possible.

Count on it.

It will still be a long time before the top .1% of no-life grinders hit the 'Godly' point (although I bet 4-500+CP is enough to be considered 'OP' to new VR14s who might only have 70-150). The general population likely never will. ZOS wants and endless grind, but it has to be worth it, which is, IMO, what might kill this game. Steep character progression with a big payout will discourage new players, at least it will for any interested primarily in PvP.

Personally, I have a VR14 Templar that has not done a single cadwell quest/ delve/dolman/etc in vet zones, and I'm leveling alts to 50 without doing any main line quests/fighters guild/mages guild. I'm going to burst as fast as possible to about 500CP by completing all the solo vet content on my main and alts, which will give me the build specific passives I want on each and I think should be enough to be and stay competitive for as long as I am likely to play the game.

Darkintellect · February 2015

Khami wrote: »

Tamanous wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Rydik wrote: »

1 cp will be 400k exp, it's 100k with enlighment, if you not a no lifer, you will get around 2-5 cp per day+-, it's 5-2 years for obtain 3600cp, not worth talking about it right now.

Yes but if it doesn't get fixed in PTS (which is why they gave us 3.6k CP and the whole reason PTS is there) when someone gets it in Live it will be extremely powerful when that one person gets it, I would really like to have that not be the case.

You admit they are testing it and you are talking about it on the test forum. Do you not think ZOS is obtaining information about this? Why did they even test 3.6k if not for information on such massive points? Even if they don't address it within 3 months of release do you think anyone will have anywhere near 3.6k in 3 months?

Every single ability and system collectively causing this issue could be address individually by the time 3.6k is obtained after release (minus exploits to obtain more outside of the normal curve). I am not convinced this is a concern worth more than simply mentioning it right now as it impacts a testing environment.

Ask yourself this, why did it take them 3 patches on PTS before they even gave the players all the CP available? I'm not sure they want to know how unbalance their game will get in the future. The only reason they put all the points on PTS is because the players demanded it.

Sad if you ask me. I swear this dev team has no idea what they're really doing.

If anyone has any alts, leveling those will also give you the CPs. You don't have to grind, grind away with one character, people will grind away with all 8 of them. They'll have all 3600 CP faster than the devs thought possible.

Count on it.

The alt has to be level 50+, it's also more feasible to grind on a single character than to run an alt. The values are based on exp gained and a Vr14 will gain more on pure grinds. Rested EXP is also account wide so people can't take advantage of that either. So the best solution is the grind method of which you're still looking at 5 years with 2 points a day or if you somehow achieve 5 in a day equivalent to 2 veteran levels, you're still looking at 2 years.

We have more immediate problems to contend with.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · February 2015

You guys know on PTS right now there is a bug which makes it so you take no damage right? So dont panic. Its not the 3600 points causing some players to be unkillable.

ToRelax · February 2015

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You guys know on PTS right now there is a bug which makes it so you take no damage right? So dont panic. Its not the 3600 points causing some players to be unkillable.

No, there are bugs, but that's not what the thread is about.

Players with that many CP are extremely tanky.

Kuro1n · February 2015

Honestly playing a bursty build I had no problems hitting people fairly low on several classes, it is way better than on 1.5. The issue is real no-lifers who could potentially hit 10-15+ CP a day will quickly pull ahead.

EDIT: Personally I think the worst about this is that I as a PVPer wont be able to do what I enjoy in the game (PVPing obviously), but will have to spend quite a bit of time doing extremely boring *** like grinding. Wish they actually did improve the EXP gain in cyrodiil by 2-3x the amount (at least).

Darkintellect · February 2015

Kragorn wrote: »

As I see it, all this shows is that the DR curve on CPs needs a faster decay.

Going to have to agree with you. I was doing the math and although the final points are at a 20% ratio to the initial points spent in terms of Health/Magicka/Stamina, I still feel it should have a lower end value in what appears to be a parabolic gradient.