Lightning Splash - 1.6.3

Sacadon · February 2015

I've been working with this skill using a template character on PTS for about an hour now. And even when I go all-in on spell pen and power, it's pointless because NPC's just run out of the tiny circle it uses.

So what is the appropriate way to use this skill and its morphs so that it actually does real damage? And I'm not talking about PvE questing or trying break NBs out of stealth. I'm talking about real sustainable damage that can be used to take vet bosses down.

Before 1.6, it at least did an initial damage before the target ran away. At least with templars blazing spear the skill includes a stun so that the AoE aspect can do its thing.

Maybe in PvP we're supposed to lock players down before applying this, but unless you talon spam most are going to escape that and without the initial damage this thing will just end up tickling everyone.

It's certainly not the first time I've been wrong. So figured there were much smarter people than I that could help shed some light on this.

Thoughts?

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO · February 2015

Sacadon wrote: »

All who are experienced sorcs and/or ZOS developers.

I've been working with this skill using a template character on PTS for about an hour now. And even when I go all-in on spell pen and power, it's pointless because NPC's just run out of the tiny circle it uses.

So what is the appropriate way to use this skill and its morphs so that it actually does damage?

Before 1.6, it at least did an initial damage before the target ran away. At least with templars blazing spear the skill includes a stun so that the AoE aspect can do its thing.

Maybe in PvP we're supposed to lock players down before applying this, but unless you talon spam most are going to escape that and without the initial damage this thing will just end up tickling everyone.

It's certainly not the first time I've been wrong. So figured there were much smarter people than I that could help shed some light on this.

Thoughts?

This spell is best used when fighting zerg vs zerg or defending a breach. I have lost count the number of times i've disintegrated people using the spell or have unstealthed bow scrubs sitting next to a keeps breach, or just deterred people from going through it. Then when you constantly spam it on zergs it does damage with a wall of elements you have 2 shock AOEs down hitting people. The ash piles build up.

Sacadon · February 2015

Good to know and that makes sense as a general tool and is what I do with caltrops already. Zergs don't stand in place nor do the other zergs attacking. Since wall of elements stacks now, it's easy damage but that was nerfed.

So how do I do real damage with it versus just a deterrent?

Context on this is that ZOS said they buffed it so that we'd have a non-pet approach to DPS on par with the other classes (when combined with the changes to the Expert Mage passive)

danovic · February 2015

I use it cast in middle of dadric mines they get rooted on the mines long enough for the field to do a lot of damage in pve anyways as the mobs run toward you.

Sacadon · February 2015

danovic wrote: »

I use it cast in middle of dadric mines they get rooted on the mines long enough for the field to do a lot of damage in pve anyways as the mobs run toward you.

Please describe what you mean by, a lot of damage? Are you seeing 1200 DPS with this and what type and level of mobs? Even though this is nowhere near a true sustained way to measure, it would be good to see your numbers.

Have you used this in trials or vet dungeons?

Koloki · February 2015

also works well with restraining prison especially if you have someone to use the synergy

Sacadon · February 2015

Koloki wrote: »

also works well with restraining prison especially if you have someone to use the synergy

Works well how? Have you used it to take a boss in any of the 4man dungeons?

This is not about completing PvE quests, it's about how to get sustainable DPS.

Voltos · February 2015

Here is how you fix this, ZOS:

Lightning Splash:

Player/Enemy targeted
Increased Damage/Radius

Turn your target into a lightning rod, and the aoe damage would affect them and anyone within the radius. This would solve the mechanics issue in PVE, and PVP players would be able to either roll-doge or breakout of the effect. If your target breaks out of the effect, the damage continues to persist at the location where it was removed for the rest of the duration. Rename it -- Lightning Storm -- Win-Win imo.

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO · February 2015

Sacadon wrote: »

danovic wrote: »

I use it cast in middle of dadric mines they get rooted on the mines long enough for the field to do a lot of damage in pve anyways as the mobs run toward you.

Please describe what you mean by, a lot of damage? Are you seeing 1200 DPS with this and what type and level of mobs? Even though this is nowhere near a true sustained way to measure, it would be good to see your numbers.

Have you used this in trials or vet dungeons?

Hes basically doing what i do, in craglorn Pull entire groups Encase/ Wall of elements/ Lightning AOE crit surge drop a storm atronarch and kill everything in like 6 seconds. 1k dps at min. I've solo'd dungeons in craglorn like this. hard when some things can't be CC'd though.

Koloki · February 2015

Sacadon wrote: »

Works well how? Have you used it to take a boss in any of the 4man dungeons?

This is not about completing PvE quests, it's about how to get sustainable DPS.

1st. You don't need to get so defensive, it's clear you came into the tread wanting to hate the skill and the 1.6.3 changes (and wanting people to just agree with you) and not looking for any input from the community.

2nd. I did use it on 4man vet bosses and pulls before and it works, it doesn't 1 shot everything but it does dps over a area and its pretty sustainable if you lock it down with RP or get your tank to just control the damn mobs.

Yes the skill is better in some situations then in others but that is part of the fun isn't it?

Voltos · February 2015

Koloki wrote: »

Yes the skill is better in some situations then in others but that is part of the fun isn't it?

I only have 10 spots for abilities, excluding the 2 Ults. There are no room for "situational" abilities.

Grao · February 2015

Sacadon wrote: »

I've been working with this skill using a template character on PTS for about an hour now. And even when I go all-in on spell pen and power, it's pointless because NPC's just run out of the tiny circle it uses.

So what is the appropriate way to use this skill and its morphs so that it actually does real damage? And I'm not talking about PvE questing or trying break NBs out of stealth. I'm talking about real sustainable damage that can be used to take vet bosses down.

Before 1.6, it at least did an initial damage before the target ran away. At least with templars blazing spear the skill includes a stun so that the AoE aspect can do its thing.

Maybe in PvP we're supposed to lock players down before applying this, but unless you talon spam most are going to escape that and without the initial damage this thing will just end up tickling everyone.

It's certainly not the first time I've been wrong. So figured there were much smarter people than I that could help shed some light on this.

Thoughts?

For PvE, this spell is only remotely viable if you have the City of Ash set. Somehow this AoE is considered a DoT, so it procs rather well and those deal significant Single Target Damage.

As far as I am aware, that is the only possible build that could include this poorly designed ability.

indigoblades · February 2015

Kinda a longer post than i meant to, just the sum of all the 1.6 changes depress me more each new update & my experience with lightning Splash.

At spell car 1.62 pts, i got decent results with two destro staffs, max magika and a giant shield. both destros had degeneration, hardened ward, inner light .... bar one had meteor, crush shock and power overload .... bar two had the dot impulse morph, the large area lightning splash morph and meteor for an ult.

without an ult i could handle large mobs, and get decent DPS 6 to 10k, if i dropped meteor i could get about 10 to 15K and once got 30k dps.... the trick is dodging in a circle both to prevent damage but also too keep the mob in the AOE.

Sometimes after the attack my meteor ult might be recharged but usually it was about 50% to 70%. Anyway i was surprised it did as well as did when mixed with Impulse Ring spams (sorry my mind is blank on the name of the impulse morph.)

Crush shock and crystal frags where used for single target enemy's. I didnt find Power Overload to really help my dps, but i mainly use that as a utility third bar not for dps. i think at the time it had caltroops, streak, degeneration, inner light and hard ward ward on it (or maybe lightning form). Normally, i dont really do any competive group content so in PVE i try to use a build that will work in PVP. For months i quit using Crit surge just because i knew 1.6 was going nerf it.

Any way i was surprised lightning form it did ok with BIG groups when mixed with dots from Impulse. High magika(31k)/VERY low health (~13k) forces me to spam hardened ward alot and if i make mistake .. i need spam degeneration to regain health... all of which lowers my dps.

I came up with this after i experimented with a 1 pet build (if i gotta play 2 pets ill quit lol) which is the same as above except it has restoring twilight on both bars instead crys frags and lightning form. The pet build is easier to play and has simalar dps ... with the pet build i just need pay attension to if the twilight is taking too much damage and if he is aggro by weaving light attacks with impulse his attacker. The pet build is ok but it will never work for me in PVP. I sneak alot so a pet is out of the question. Anyway that how i came up with it.

Not sure if will find any thing that works in PVP, theres not enough slots in our bars to maintain Damage and surviablity. Also ill need much more stam to break CC and dodge. i feel in 1.62 if a huge harden ward shield wont work, i am not sure what to do.

I have been experimenting with my sorc using 2H and bow/resto/DW sorc for a couple of months as insurance if 1.6 forces me to abandon my sorc. Also my sorc is a Nord which worked great with softcaps but if MinMax is the new game i may need to abandon Magicka.

indigoblades · February 2015

....The quick answer to your question on how to appropriately use it is: run in a circle around the mob to keep them in the AOE as u spam other DOTS (Fire or Shock Ring)

As for how to use it in PVP i am not sure there is any use, its just covers too small of a area. maybe break up big zergs.

Holycannoli · February 2015

Are you saying the increased duration of Lightning Splash isn't the answer all us sorcerers have been waiting for?

Dracane · February 2015

Holycannoli wrote: »

Are you saying the increased duration of Lightning Splash isn't the answer all us sorcerers have been waiting for?

This is like christmas. If THIS is not the change, every Sorc was waiting for, I don't know what to say.

This is the buff of the year, if not the decade. Oh what am I talking: century of course

#SorcOP #NerfSorc #SorcMasterClass #LightningSplashMasterSpell

Emma_Overload · February 2015

I wonder how SplashMaster builds are going to compare to the ToggleMancer...

ToRelax · February 2015

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO wrote: »

Sacadon wrote: »

danovic wrote: »

I use it cast in middle of dadric mines they get rooted on the mines long enough for the field to do a lot of damage in pve anyways as the mobs run toward you.

Please describe what you mean by, a lot of damage? Are you seeing 1200 DPS with this and what type and level of mobs? Even though this is nowhere near a true sustained way to measure, it would be good to see your numbers.

Have you used this in trials or vet dungeons?

Hes basically doing what i do, in craglorn Pull entire groups Encase/ Wall of elements/ Lightning AOE crit surge drop a storm atronarch and kill everything in like 6 seconds. 1k dps at min. I've solo'd dungeons in craglorn like this. hard when some things can't be CC'd though.

With 1k dps I hope you're talking about 1.5 wich makes your statement completely irrelevant.

indigoblades wrote: »

Kinda a longer post than i meant to, just the sum of all the 1.6 changes depress me more each new update & my experience with lightning Splash.

At spell car 1.62 pts, i got decent results with two destro staffs, max magika and a giant shield. both destros had degeneration, hardened ward, inner light .... bar one had meteor, crush shock and power overload .... bar two had the dot impulse morph, the large area lightning splash morph and meteor for an ult.

without an ult i could handle large mobs, and get decent DPS 6 to 10k, if i dropped meteor i could get about 10 to 15K and once got 30k dps.... the trick is dodging in a circle both to prevent damage but also too keep the mob in the AOE.

[...]

I can get consistently higher dps against spell scar groups without Lightning Splash.

Seraphyel · February 2015

Koloki wrote: »

also works well with restraining prison especially if you have someone to use the synergy

Yeah, it's nice to be forced to rely on a synergy.

There is just one thing Zenimax needs to do, make it a DoT on a specific target with AoE around that target - problem solved, it will always hit at least one guy.

Voltos · February 2015

Seraphyel wrote: »

There is just one thing Zenimax needs to do, make it a DoT on a specific target with AoE around that target - problem solved, it will always hit at least one guy.

My idea exactly!

Voltos wrote: »

Lightning Splash:

Player/Enemy targeted
Increased Damage/Radius

Turn your target into a lightning rod, and the aoe damage would affect them and anyone within the radius. This would solve the mechanics issue in PVE, and PVP players would be able to either roll-doge or breakout of the effect. If your target breaks out of the effect, the damage continues to persist at the location where it was removed for the rest of the duration. Rename it -- Lightning Storm -- Win-Win imo.

Sacadon · February 2015

Thanks for everyone's ideas so far.

@koloki, yes I do already believe it pales in comparison to other skills, but I've learned to keep an open mind. Way early on I thought lightning form had little use for me and now I think differently. So I thought I'd check with the community and see if ZOS would weigh-in as well since they've put some effort into trying to get the skill useful for us.

I primarily PvP and just PvE when it helps me improve my competitiveness for PvP. To date I've only heard of (not seen) No Mercy using lightning splash effectively and my guild has more powerful tools used regularly for DPS, lightning splash not being one. But I'd really like to see sorcs be able to bring more to PvP groups than negate.

Digiman · February 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Are you saying the increased duration of Lightning Splash isn't the answer all us sorcerers have been waiting for?

This is like christmas. If THIS is not the change, every Sorc was waiting for, I don't know what to say.

This is the buff of the year, if not the decade. Oh what am I talking: century of course

#SorcOP #NerfSorc #SorcMasterClass #LightningSplashMasterSpell

You fool ZoS developers can't tell the difference between sarcasm!

Digiman · February 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I wonder how SplashMaster builds are going to compare to the ToggleMancer...

Oh you also read that Dark exchange is now a toggle too?

Sacadon · February 2015

Yup... something tells me there were no eric wrobel test dummies hurt or damaged in the testing of the change to this skill.

niocwy · February 2015

Voltos wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

There is just one thing Zenimax needs to do, make it a DoT on a specific target with AoE around that target - problem solved, it will always hit at least one guy.

My idea exactly!

Voltos wrote: »

Lightning Splash:

Player/Enemy targeted
Increased Damage/Radius

Turn your target into a lightning rod, and the aoe damage would affect them and anyone within the radius. This would solve the mechanics issue in PVE, and PVP players would be able to either roll-doge or breakout of the effect. If your target breaks out of the effect, the damage continues to persist at the location where it was removed for the rest of the duration. Rename it -- Lightning Storm -- Win-Win imo.

I like that idea too. Some monsters even have this kind of attack (AA trash for instance) so that would make sense.

If it's not enough buffing, why don't we get 2 morphs : one does more damage but only on the target, thus giving the sorc an actual DOT, the other one keeps the AoE component but lasting longer (or something else idk)

That way PvE sorcs got something to complement their rotation while PvP sorcs would have access to a more useful AoE.

Wether sorc should have this buff or not, that's another debate I won't partake in.