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[Unchained] Why stam builds become completely broken w/ 360 CP
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Francescolg✭✭✭✭If you were in a professional PvP Team before 1.6. a 80% stamina (+hp) regen Buff was pretty normal, thanks to the (right) Templar player...
(Radiant Aura). This looks like a brainwashing of it, instead of 80% more regeneration, it gives 80% less sth.
80% Stamina Regen was NORMAL for many teams, all the time, night and day, it was recasted 100% of the time in battle, ...., and it was not imbalanced but one of the reasons you want a Templar with you!
I can assure you that it is far from unfair or gamebreaking, it just helps keeping up Immovable and having some more Break Free.
All that has been going on SINCE release...
Now, I understand why this As......s are nurfing our best Templar Buff, because of this s...t... Very high creativity from ZoS!! Instead of inventing sth. new, they steal a skill from the Templar and make it an 120 CP skill!!
Bravehearts....Edited by Francescolg on February 17, 2015 11:09AM8 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Teargrants wrote: »
Lol, have you played much on pts? Magicka builds are the ones that cannot maintain the stam to CC break, stam builds on the other hand are able to, and that's without factoring Unchained in.bosmern_ESO wrote: »Teargrants wrote: »Ok, so it seems there's still a large number of ppl (even on pts) who aren't aware of this, or how insane it is. So here I am to explain:
HOLY JESUS BATMAN!
I don't know what ZOS was smoking when they came up with this passive, but I can't think of a single example of something as blatantly broken as this in eso. Let me elucidate:
360 CP, just make sure you put all your Warrior ones into the Lady.
Stam build + Way of the Arena + Unchained + [insert w/e stam abilities you wanna spam]
At that point, your stamina is basically free, just make sure to let ppl CC you. For example, w/ that you can spam Bone Shield (since it's stam now) and shut down physical dps. When fighting a stam build that has this, it turns into Bizzaro World where it's detrimental to CC them because /logic.
This isn't some thing about max CP being OP, all you need is 360 - and if you don't think ppl (especially stam builds) will grind that out in weeks, you're living in a fantasy.
Unlike magicka, a players stamina pool isn't only drained from abilities. Stamina drains from roll dodge, blocking, sprinting, breaking CC, and Abilities.
What's wrong with Stamina builds currently (in 1.5) is that they run out of stamina way to fast, then they sit there hopelessly waiting for death. Stamina builds can do two things:
1. Use abilities, run out of stamina quickly and then get one CC and sit there hopelessly watching their character die because they can't break the CC, get out of the AoE, etc.
2. don't attack at all and run out of stamina and then they can only light/heavy attack target which will do no damage and just get them killed a bit slower.
3 reduce stam cost enchants (work on all stam costs, abilities/dodge/block) and stam builds do not run out of resources any faster than magicka builds run out of magicka. 1.6 is all about stacking cost reduction and regen, mag vs stam plays very differently than on live. A stam build w/ way of the arena proccing Unchained simply does not run out of stamina. This is an issue in a meta where whoever runs out of stam first dies.
Are stamina cost reduction enchants working on block now? That seems weird as an enchant already exist for that.
allways have and do on PTS - the block restricted glyph is just 3x as effective in regard of blocking again on live aswell as on the PTS.
it does reduce the block cost.xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Teargrants wrote: »
Lol, have you played much on pts? Magicka builds are the ones that cannot maintain the stam to CC break, stam builds on the other hand are able to, and that's without factoring Unchained in.bosmern_ESO wrote: »Teargrants wrote: »Ok, so it seems there's still a large number of ppl (even on pts) who aren't aware of this, or how insane it is. So here I am to explain:
HOLY JESUS BATMAN!
I don't know what ZOS was smoking when they came up with this passive, but I can't think of a single example of something as blatantly broken as this in eso. Let me elucidate:
360 CP, just make sure you put all your Warrior ones into the Lady.
Stam build + Way of the Arena + Unchained + [insert w/e stam abilities you wanna spam]
At that point, your stamina is basically free, just make sure to let ppl CC you. For example, w/ that you can spam Bone Shield (since it's stam now) and shut down physical dps. When fighting a stam build that has this, it turns into Bizzaro World where it's detrimental to CC them because /logic.
This isn't some thing about max CP being OP, all you need is 360 - and if you don't think ppl (especially stam builds) will grind that out in weeks, you're living in a fantasy.
Unlike magicka, a players stamina pool isn't only drained from abilities. Stamina drains from roll dodge, blocking, sprinting, breaking CC, and Abilities.
What's wrong with Stamina builds currently (in 1.5) is that they run out of stamina way to fast, then they sit there hopelessly waiting for death. Stamina builds can do two things:
1. Use abilities, run out of stamina quickly and then get one CC and sit there hopelessly watching their character die because they can't break the CC, get out of the AoE, etc.
2. don't attack at all and run out of stamina and then they can only light/heavy attack target which will do no damage and just get them killed a bit slower.
3 reduce stam cost enchants (work on all stam costs, abilities/dodge/block) and stam builds do not run out of resources any faster than magicka builds run out of magicka. 1.6 is all about stacking cost reduction and regen, mag vs stam plays very differently than on live. A stam build w/ way of the arena proccing Unchained simply does not run out of stamina. This is an issue in a meta where whoever runs out of stam first dies.
Are stamina cost reduction enchants working on block now? That seems weird as an enchant already exist for that.
Stamina cost reduce works on Stamina abilitys like bash, dodge and break free.
Block doesn't count to it.. It's not something you 'activate'
But there is a block cost reduce glyph.Edited by Tankqull on February 17, 2015 11:14AMspelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"1 -
Soulac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Teargrants wrote: »
Lol, have you played much on pts? Magicka builds are the ones that cannot maintain the stam to CC break, stam builds on the other hand are able to, and that's without factoring Unchained in.bosmern_ESO wrote: »Teargrants wrote: »Ok, so it seems there's still a large number of ppl (even on pts) who aren't aware of this, or how insane it is. So here I am to explain:
HOLY JESUS BATMAN!
I don't know what ZOS was smoking when they came up with this passive, but I can't think of a single example of something as blatantly broken as this in eso. Let me elucidate:
360 CP, just make sure you put all your Warrior ones into the Lady.
Stam build + Way of the Arena + Unchained + [insert w/e stam abilities you wanna spam]
At that point, your stamina is basically free, just make sure to let ppl CC you. For example, w/ that you can spam Bone Shield (since it's stam now) and shut down physical dps. When fighting a stam build that has this, it turns into Bizzaro World where it's detrimental to CC them because /logic.
This isn't some thing about max CP being OP, all you need is 360 - and if you don't think ppl (especially stam builds) will grind that out in weeks, you're living in a fantasy.
Unlike magicka, a players stamina pool isn't only drained from abilities. Stamina drains from roll dodge, blocking, sprinting, breaking CC, and Abilities.
What's wrong with Stamina builds currently (in 1.5) is that they run out of stamina way to fast, then they sit there hopelessly waiting for death. Stamina builds can do two things:
1. Use abilities, run out of stamina quickly and then get one CC and sit there hopelessly watching their character die because they can't break the CC, get out of the AoE, etc.
2. don't attack at all and run out of stamina and then they can only light/heavy attack target which will do no damage and just get them killed a bit slower.
3 reduce stam cost enchants (work on all stam costs, abilities/dodge/block) and stam builds do not run out of resources any faster than magicka builds run out of magicka. 1.6 is all about stacking cost reduction and regen, mag vs stam plays very differently than on live. A stam build w/ way of the arena proccing Unchained simply does not run out of stamina. This is an issue in a meta where whoever runs out of stam first dies.
Are stamina cost reduction enchants working on block now? That seems weird as an enchant already exist for that.
allways have and do on PTS - the block restricted glyph is just 3x as effective in regard of blocking again on live aswell as on the PTS.
it does reduce the block cost.xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Teargrants wrote: »
Lol, have you played much on pts? Magicka builds are the ones that cannot maintain the stam to CC break, stam builds on the other hand are able to, and that's without factoring Unchained in.bosmern_ESO wrote: »Teargrants wrote: »Ok, so it seems there's still a large number of ppl (even on pts) who aren't aware of this, or how insane it is. So here I am to explain:
HOLY JESUS BATMAN!
I don't know what ZOS was smoking when they came up with this passive, but I can't think of a single example of something as blatantly broken as this in eso. Let me elucidate:
360 CP, just make sure you put all your Warrior ones into the Lady.
Stam build + Way of the Arena + Unchained + [insert w/e stam abilities you wanna spam]
At that point, your stamina is basically free, just make sure to let ppl CC you. For example, w/ that you can spam Bone Shield (since it's stam now) and shut down physical dps. When fighting a stam build that has this, it turns into Bizzaro World where it's detrimental to CC them because /logic.
This isn't some thing about max CP being OP, all you need is 360 - and if you don't think ppl (especially stam builds) will grind that out in weeks, you're living in a fantasy.
Unlike magicka, a players stamina pool isn't only drained from abilities. Stamina drains from roll dodge, blocking, sprinting, breaking CC, and Abilities.
What's wrong with Stamina builds currently (in 1.5) is that they run out of stamina way to fast, then they sit there hopelessly waiting for death. Stamina builds can do two things:
1. Use abilities, run out of stamina quickly and then get one CC and sit there hopelessly watching their character die because they can't break the CC, get out of the AoE, etc.
2. don't attack at all and run out of stamina and then they can only light/heavy attack target which will do no damage and just get them killed a bit slower.
3 reduce stam cost enchants (work on all stam costs, abilities/dodge/block) and stam builds do not run out of resources any faster than magicka builds run out of magicka. 1.6 is all about stacking cost reduction and regen, mag vs stam plays very differently than on live. A stam build w/ way of the arena proccing Unchained simply does not run out of stamina. This is an issue in a meta where whoever runs out of stam first dies.
Are stamina cost reduction enchants working on block now? That seems weird as an enchant already exist for that.
Stamina cost reduce works on Stamina abilitys like bash, dodge and break free.
Block doesn't count to it.. It's not something you 'activate'
But there is a block cost reduce glyph.
The stamina cost reduction glyph doesn't.
Only passives and block cost reduction glyphs reducing the block cost, but not the stamina cost reduction glyphs.
Test it completely before saying anything..
R.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
Nathaerizh aka Cat - Nightblade V16 - EU
- Meow -2 -
Morvul✭✭✭✭✭
alright, math can be tricky...Francescolg wrote: »If you were in a professional PvP Team before 1.6. a 80% stamina (+hp) regen Buff was pretty normal, thanks to the (right) Templar player... (Radiant Aura). This looks like a brainwashing of it, instead of 80% more regeneration, it gives 80% less sth.
80% Stamina Regen was NORMAL for many teams, all the time, night and day, it was recasted 100% of the time in battle, ...., and it was not imbalanced but one of the reasons you want a Templar with you!
I can assure you that it is far from unfair or gamebreaking, it just helps keeping up Immovable and having some more Break Free.
All that has been going on SINCE release...
Now, I understand why this As......s are nurfing our best Templar Buff, because of this s...t... Very high creativity from ZoS!! Instead of inventing sth. new, they steal a skill from the Templar and make it an 120 CP skill!!
Bravehearts....
so let me explain:
80% cost reduction and 80% more regen are NOT equal:
80% cost reduction means your stuff now costs 20% of what it costed before - which in other nomenclature means it costs 1/5th of what it was costing bevor. Which, obviously I would think, means you can now use that stuff FIVE (5) times as much as without that 80% cost reduction.
80% more regen means you have 1.8 times the resources you would have otherwise, meaning you can use stuff ONE POINT EIGHT (1.8) times as much as without that 80% regen buff.
In addition, the 80% regen buff on live tends to get eaten up by soft-caps, resulting in effect in only a 40% regen buff.
Edited by Morvul on February 17, 2015 11:45AM4 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭
someone fails hard at math...Francescolg wrote: »If you were in a professional PvP Team before 1.6. a 80% stamina (+hp) regen Buff was pretty normal, thanks to the (right) Templar player... (Radiant Aura). This looks like a brainwashing of it, instead of 80% more regeneration, it gives 80% less sth.
80% Stamina Regen was NORMAL for many teams, all the time, night and day, it was recasted 100% of the time in battle, ...., and it was not imbalanced but one of the reasons you want a Templar with you!
I can assure you that it is far from unfair or gamebreaking, it just helps keeping up Immovable and having some more Break Free.
All that has been going on SINCE release...
Now, I understand why this As......s are nurfing our best Templar Buff, because of this s...t... Very high creativity from ZoS!! Instead of inventing sth. new, they steal a skill from the Templar and make it an 120 CP skill!!
Bravehearts....
80% cost reduction and 80% more regen are NOT equal:
80% cost reduction means your stuff now costs 20% of what it costed befor - which in other nomenclature means it costs 1/5th of what it was costing bevor. Which, obviously I would think, means you can now use that stuff FIVE (5) times as much as without that 80% cost reduction.
80% more regen means you have 1.8 times the resources you would have otherwise, meaning you can use stuff ONE POINT EIGHT (1.8) times as much as without that 80% regen buff.
In addition, the 80% regen buff on live tends to get eaten up by soft-caps, resulting in effect in only a 40% regen buff.
to make this a bit more obvious:
just assume soft caps do not interfere on live. and we observe a char with 2000 stamina, a skill that cost 500 stamina per use and a a 100 stamina reg every 2 sec to compare 80% reduction of stamina cost in one case and a 80% staminareg increase in the other case. and the abuility can be used once per second for the sake of easy cumputation.
without everything the ability can be used 4 times before you run out of stamina with 2 reg ticks worth 200 stamina wich are the left over stamina points and 6sec to wait for the next attack.
next stamina gain increasement without interfering softcap
100 reg becomes 180
you again have your 2000 stamina pool, 500 per ability use = 4 skills in 4 sec +2 regticks worth 360points so you have for another reg tick for your 5th attack.
and now for stamina cost reduction:
the ability cost is reduced by 80% wich means it now cost only 100 stamina
with your basepool you now can use it 20times in 20sec, while having 10 staminareg ticks in that duration offering you 10 further attacks, in wich you´ll have 5 further ticks giving you 5 further attacks(5sec), wich aswell grant 2 ticks worth 100, granting you 2 further attacks.
so by an 80% cost reduction your usable skillpool is bloated from 4 skillusagaes to 37!
so what is would you say is more efficient?
4 attacks +3 ticks for the 5th attack
4 attacks +1 tick for the 5th
or 37 consecutive attacks?
may be they should make that ability into a complementary reduction skill.
for every slotted stamina/magica ability the the cost of skills for the complementary resource pool is reduced by 15%.
that way magica useres recieve cheaper defensive options, as well as stamina users as they use their magica completly defensively. that way no one recive offensive power but all recieve some slight bonis for their defense reducing the redicoulus TTk we see on PTS.Edited by Tankqull on February 17, 2015 12:05PMspelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"5 -
Teargrants✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Maths!
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~Teargrants YouTube~
┬┴┬┴┤(･_├┬┴┬┴3 -
Soulac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭R.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
Nathaerizh aka Cat - Nightblade V16 - EU
- Meow -2 -
Oughash✭✭✭✭xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Teargrants wrote: »
Lol, have you played much on pts? Magicka builds are the ones that cannot maintain the stam to CC break, stam builds on the other hand are able to, and that's without factoring Unchained in.bosmern_ESO wrote: »Teargrants wrote: »Ok, so it seems there's still a large number of ppl (even on pts) who aren't aware of this, or how insane it is. So here I am to explain:
HOLY JESUS BATMAN!
I don't know what ZOS was smoking when they came up with this passive, but I can't think of a single example of something as blatantly broken as this in eso. Let me elucidate:
360 CP, just make sure you put all your Warrior ones into the Lady.
Stam build + Way of the Arena + Unchained + [insert w/e stam abilities you wanna spam]
At that point, your stamina is basically free, just make sure to let ppl CC you. For example, w/ that you can spam Bone Shield (since it's stam now) and shut down physical dps. When fighting a stam build that has this, it turns into Bizzaro World where it's detrimental to CC them because /logic.
This isn't some thing about max CP being OP, all you need is 360 - and if you don't think ppl (especially stam builds) will grind that out in weeks, you're living in a fantasy.
Unlike magicka, a players stamina pool isn't only drained from abilities. Stamina drains from roll dodge, blocking, sprinting, breaking CC, and Abilities.
What's wrong with Stamina builds currently (in 1.5) is that they run out of stamina way to fast, then they sit there hopelessly waiting for death. Stamina builds can do two things:
1. Use abilities, run out of stamina quickly and then get one CC and sit there hopelessly watching their character die because they can't break the CC, get out of the AoE, etc.
2. don't attack at all and run out of stamina and then they can only light/heavy attack target which will do no damage and just get them killed a bit slower.
3 reduce stam cost enchants (work on all stam costs, abilities/dodge/block) and stam builds do not run out of resources any faster than magicka builds run out of magicka. 1.6 is all about stacking cost reduction and regen, mag vs stam plays very differently than on live. A stam build w/ way of the arena proccing Unchained simply does not run out of stamina. This is an issue in a meta where whoever runs out of stam first dies.
Are stamina cost reduction enchants working on block now? That seems weird as an enchant already exist for that.
They always have been.
Also, when the champion constellations were first released this was the passive that jumped out to me as "woah.!" I think it will be a must have in all builds. In addition the "the atronach" and the one that reduces spell cost after drinking a pot.1 -
Oughash✭✭✭✭xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Teargrants wrote: »
Lol, have you played much on pts? Magicka builds are the ones that cannot maintain the stam to CC break, stam builds on the other hand are able to, and that's without factoring Unchained in.bosmern_ESO wrote: »Teargrants wrote: »Ok, so it seems there's still a large number of ppl (even on pts) who aren't aware of this, or how insane it is. So here I am to explain:
HOLY JESUS BATMAN!
I don't know what ZOS was smoking when they came up with this passive, but I can't think of a single example of something as blatantly broken as this in eso. Let me elucidate:
360 CP, just make sure you put all your Warrior ones into the Lady.
Stam build + Way of the Arena + Unchained + [insert w/e stam abilities you wanna spam]
At that point, your stamina is basically free, just make sure to let ppl CC you. For example, w/ that you can spam Bone Shield (since it's stam now) and shut down physical dps. When fighting a stam build that has this, it turns into Bizzaro World where it's detrimental to CC them because /logic.
This isn't some thing about max CP being OP, all you need is 360 - and if you don't think ppl (especially stam builds) will grind that out in weeks, you're living in a fantasy.
Unlike magicka, a players stamina pool isn't only drained from abilities. Stamina drains from roll dodge, blocking, sprinting, breaking CC, and Abilities.
What's wrong with Stamina builds currently (in 1.5) is that they run out of stamina way to fast, then they sit there hopelessly waiting for death. Stamina builds can do two things:
1. Use abilities, run out of stamina quickly and then get one CC and sit there hopelessly watching their character die because they can't break the CC, get out of the AoE, etc.
2. don't attack at all and run out of stamina and then they can only light/heavy attack target which will do no damage and just get them killed a bit slower.
3 reduce stam cost enchants (work on all stam costs, abilities/dodge/block) and stam builds do not run out of resources any faster than magicka builds run out of magicka. 1.6 is all about stacking cost reduction and regen, mag vs stam plays very differently than on live. A stam build w/ way of the arena proccing Unchained simply does not run out of stamina. This is an issue in a meta where whoever runs out of stam first dies.
Are stamina cost reduction enchants working on block now? That seems weird as an enchant already exist for that.
They always have been.
Also, when the champion constellations were first released this was the passive that jumped out to me as "woah.!" I think it will be a must have in all builds. (Other must haves: the "the atronach" and the one that reduces spell cost after drinking a pot).
0 -
Yuke✭✭✭✭✭Saw that passive after 1.6 was applied for the first time and loled like for 2-3 hours straight in ts. Plain ridiculous.1 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Teargrants wrote: »
Lol, have you played much on pts? Magicka builds are the ones that cannot maintain the stam to CC break, stam builds on the other hand are able to, and that's without factoring Unchained in.bosmern_ESO wrote: »Teargrants wrote: »Ok, so it seems there's still a large number of ppl (even on pts) who aren't aware of this, or how insane it is. So here I am to explain:
HOLY JESUS BATMAN!
I don't know what ZOS was smoking when they came up with this passive, but I can't think of a single example of something as blatantly broken as this in eso. Let me elucidate:
360 CP, just make sure you put all your Warrior ones into the Lady.
Stam build + Way of the Arena + Unchained + [insert w/e stam abilities you wanna spam]
At that point, your stamina is basically free, just make sure to let ppl CC you. For example, w/ that you can spam Bone Shield (since it's stam now) and shut down physical dps. When fighting a stam build that has this, it turns into Bizzaro World where it's detrimental to CC them because /logic.
This isn't some thing about max CP being OP, all you need is 360 - and if you don't think ppl (especially stam builds) will grind that out in weeks, you're living in a fantasy.
Unlike magicka, a players stamina pool isn't only drained from abilities. Stamina drains from roll dodge, blocking, sprinting, breaking CC, and Abilities.
What's wrong with Stamina builds currently (in 1.5) is that they run out of stamina way to fast, then they sit there hopelessly waiting for death. Stamina builds can do two things:
1. Use abilities, run out of stamina quickly and then get one CC and sit there hopelessly watching their character die because they can't break the CC, get out of the AoE, etc.
2. don't attack at all and run out of stamina and then they can only light/heavy attack target which will do no damage and just get them killed a bit slower.
3 reduce stam cost enchants (work on all stam costs, abilities/dodge/block) and stam builds do not run out of resources any faster than magicka builds run out of magicka. 1.6 is all about stacking cost reduction and regen, mag vs stam plays very differently than on live. A stam build w/ way of the arena proccing Unchained simply does not run out of stamina. This is an issue in a meta where whoever runs out of stam first dies.
Are stamina cost reduction enchants working on block now? That seems weird as an enchant already exist for that.
They always have been.
Also, when the champion constellations were first released this was the passive that jumped out to me as "woah.!" I think it will be a must have in all builds. In addition the "the atronach" and the one that reduces spell cost after drinking a pot.
Unless it changed in 1.6 the stamina cost reduction glyphs haven't reduced block cost, just to make sure I'll test again on live, but when I tested in 1.4 they did not.
Just tested again on live, it doesn't reduce block cost reduction..i'll see if i can test on PTS
Tested on PTS, Works the same way, Stamina Cost reduction doesn't work on Blocking. Only Block Cost reduction Glyphs, and they appear to only reduce by 100 instead of 200Edited by Xsorus on February 17, 2015 2:16PMhttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos3 -
AlcastClass RepresentativeI am very excited about this. After the boring VR grind, currently around 13 million points to get to VR14 (was much more when I did it), the thought of only needing 144 million points to get this is making me salivate.
Or rather maybe it has me thinking of banging my head against a brick wall until I come to my senses.
You are bored of grinding from VR system? HAVE FUN with CP, it is worse than VR LoL
Always fun to see when ppl QQ about VR system and they do not realize that CP is worse.Edited by Alcast on February 17, 2015 2:21PMhttps://alcasthq.com - Alcasthq.com Builds & Guides
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Soulac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Teargrants wrote: »
Lol, have you played much on pts? Magicka builds are the ones that cannot maintain the stam to CC break, stam builds on the other hand are able to, and that's without factoring Unchained in.bosmern_ESO wrote: »Teargrants wrote: »Ok, so it seems there's still a large number of ppl (even on pts) who aren't aware of this, or how insane it is. So here I am to explain:
HOLY JESUS BATMAN!
I don't know what ZOS was smoking when they came up with this passive, but I can't think of a single example of something as blatantly broken as this in eso. Let me elucidate:
360 CP, just make sure you put all your Warrior ones into the Lady.
Stam build + Way of the Arena + Unchained + [insert w/e stam abilities you wanna spam]
At that point, your stamina is basically free, just make sure to let ppl CC you. For example, w/ that you can spam Bone Shield (since it's stam now) and shut down physical dps. When fighting a stam build that has this, it turns into Bizzaro World where it's detrimental to CC them because /logic.
This isn't some thing about max CP being OP, all you need is 360 - and if you don't think ppl (especially stam builds) will grind that out in weeks, you're living in a fantasy.
Unlike magicka, a players stamina pool isn't only drained from abilities. Stamina drains from roll dodge, blocking, sprinting, breaking CC, and Abilities.
What's wrong with Stamina builds currently (in 1.5) is that they run out of stamina way to fast, then they sit there hopelessly waiting for death. Stamina builds can do two things:
1. Use abilities, run out of stamina quickly and then get one CC and sit there hopelessly watching their character die because they can't break the CC, get out of the AoE, etc.
2. don't attack at all and run out of stamina and then they can only light/heavy attack target which will do no damage and just get them killed a bit slower.
3 reduce stam cost enchants (work on all stam costs, abilities/dodge/block) and stam builds do not run out of resources any faster than magicka builds run out of magicka. 1.6 is all about stacking cost reduction and regen, mag vs stam plays very differently than on live. A stam build w/ way of the arena proccing Unchained simply does not run out of stamina. This is an issue in a meta where whoever runs out of stam first dies.
Are stamina cost reduction enchants working on block now? That seems weird as an enchant already exist for that.
They always have been.
Also, when the champion constellations were first released this was the passive that jumped out to me as "woah.!" I think it will be a must have in all builds. In addition the "the atronach" and the one that reduces spell cost after drinking a pot.
Unless it changed in 1.6 the stamina cost reduction glyphs haven't reduced block cost, just to make sure I'll test again on live, but when I tested in 1.4 they did not.
Just tested again on live, it doesn't reduce block cost reduction..i'll see if i can test on PTS
Tested on PTS, Works the same way, Stamina Cost reduction doesn't work on Blocking. Only Block Cost reduction Glyphs, and they appear to only reduce by 100 instead of 200
As I said, it only reduces dodge, bash, breakfree and stamina skills. :P
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niocwy✭✭✭xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Teargrants wrote: »
Lol, have you played much on pts? Magicka builds are the ones that cannot maintain the stam to CC break, stam builds on the other hand are able to, and that's without factoring Unchained in.bosmern_ESO wrote: »Teargrants wrote: »Ok, so it seems there's still a large number of ppl (even on pts) who aren't aware of this, or how insane it is. So here I am to explain:
HOLY JESUS BATMAN!
I don't know what ZOS was smoking when they came up with this passive, but I can't think of a single example of something as blatantly broken as this in eso. Let me elucidate:
360 CP, just make sure you put all your Warrior ones into the Lady.
Stam build + Way of the Arena + Unchained + [insert w/e stam abilities you wanna spam]
At that point, your stamina is basically free, just make sure to let ppl CC you. For example, w/ that you can spam Bone Shield (since it's stam now) and shut down physical dps. When fighting a stam build that has this, it turns into Bizzaro World where it's detrimental to CC them because /logic.
This isn't some thing about max CP being OP, all you need is 360 - and if you don't think ppl (especially stam builds) will grind that out in weeks, you're living in a fantasy.
Unlike magicka, a players stamina pool isn't only drained from abilities. Stamina drains from roll dodge, blocking, sprinting, breaking CC, and Abilities.
What's wrong with Stamina builds currently (in 1.5) is that they run out of stamina way to fast, then they sit there hopelessly waiting for death. Stamina builds can do two things:
1. Use abilities, run out of stamina quickly and then get one CC and sit there hopelessly watching their character die because they can't break the CC, get out of the AoE, etc.
2. don't attack at all and run out of stamina and then they can only light/heavy attack target which will do no damage and just get them killed a bit slower.
3 reduce stam cost enchants (work on all stam costs, abilities/dodge/block) and stam builds do not run out of resources any faster than magicka builds run out of magicka. 1.6 is all about stacking cost reduction and regen, mag vs stam plays very differently than on live. A stam build w/ way of the arena proccing Unchained simply does not run out of stamina. This is an issue in a meta where whoever runs out of stam first dies.
Are stamina cost reduction enchants working on block now? That seems weird as an enchant already exist for that.
They always have been.
Also, when the champion constellations were first released this was the passive that jumped out to me as "woah.!" I think it will be a must have in all builds. In addition the "the atronach" and the one that reduces spell cost after drinking a pot.
Unless it changed in 1.6 the stamina cost reduction glyphs haven't reduced block cost, just to make sure I'll test again on live, but when I tested in 1.4 they did not.
Just tested again on live, it doesn't reduce block cost reduction..i'll see if i can test on PTS
Tested on PTS, Works the same way, Stamina Cost reduction doesn't work on Blocking. Only Block Cost reduction Glyphs, and they appear to only reduce by 100 instead of 200
As I said, it only reduces dodge, bash, breakfree and stamina skills. :P
Tested it too, it works on block.
Edited by niocwy on February 17, 2015 2:49PMLook at my profile picture. Visualize that muffin...smelling it...taking a bite...
Are you hungry now ?
Good.1 -
kkampaseb17_ESO✭✭✭Sorry I will have to go with Soulac cause I know what kind of people manage to get in banana squad. No offense intended niocwy.1
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niocwy✭✭✭kkampaseb17_ESO wrote: »Sorry I will have to go with Soulac cause I know what kind of people manage to get in banana squad. No offense intended niocwy.
None taken. I tested it some time ago though, and it worked for sure back then. They may have changed it, I guess I'll go check that later today.
EDIT : testing right now, it indeed does not work with block cost. Soulac was right from the start.
Edited by niocwy on February 17, 2015 2:47PMLook at my profile picture. Visualize that muffin...smelling it...taking a bite...
Are you hungry now ?
Good.3 -
ZRage✭✭✭To be honest, if this passive work only with skills it won't be as such OP as you might think :> I'd had to check how much stamina you can burn on useful skills in 8 sec after being stunned.
If it works with everything then probably it either needs a cooldown of 30-60sec or solid nerf on this 80% value.Edited by ZRage on February 17, 2015 2:41PM3 -
Kaghei✭✭✭What was broken as spell absorb and resilient will be if they dont add a cooldown. (all in the same tree i might add)
This is a 120 rank bonus, its meant to be good, sure its going to be good, maybe great but not broken.
Allowing yourself to be cc'd is not the best strategy, in my experience if i connected with a Wrecking blow, the second one would hit and kill them before they even had a chance to break free.Alacrity
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First Grand Overlord Slayer1 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Looks like this was made in response to the frequent issue with Stamina builds running out of Stamina constantly, while blaming it on there being too many Stamina draining actions compared to Magicka.
Only real issue that shows up for me is that it applies to CC effects that go through Block, so this will stand to help perma-blockers a lot, as having Block broken now actually benefits the target more than the person running the CC.
If they left it only on effects that did not go through Block, it would not matter a whole lot to me.
At least it only impacts Stamina abilities instead of all abilities; Stamina pool has more utility options available (dodge, block, etc.), but Magicka has more and better utility skills available.
Seems like the design idea behind this is that if a Stamina user uses the last of their Stamina to break free from CC, they can spam skills afterward in a similar capacity to a Magicka user spending the last of their Stamina to do the same thing.
Maybe it needs an additional requirement that it only applies when the person using it has less than a certain % of their Stamina bar available already.Edited by Samadhi on February 17, 2015 3:06PM"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭and magicka users have nothing comparable to this sadly. You would think they would make one equally as good or slightly worse than this for magicka users1 -
Shadesofkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭I see why it's causing concern, but I think I'd like to reach it before it got nerfed
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Jahosefat✭✭✭✭To be honest, if this passive work only with skills it won't be as such OP as you might think :> I'd had to check how much stamina you can burn on useful skills in 8 sec after being stunned.
If it works with everything then probably it either needs a cooldown of 30-60sec or solid nerf on this 80% value.
Hmmm st-ambush nightblades can land ~25k stambushes (without some buffs!), so yeah, it's not going to be OP at all to have the cost of that reduced 80% for 8 seconds after a break free. Or how about stam-based surprise attack spam? Stam NB are going to be incredibly OP with this and other stam changes. NB are getting the biggest benefit from stam/medium armor becoming the new go-to meta for crazy resistance, endless resource pools, and astronomical damage. Calling it: stam NB are going to be crazy and they are all so happy they got the magical bubbles nerfed with their endless tears.
I'm seeing very little reason to go LA. Medium will become the obvious choice. And for classes like the sorc that got 0 stam skills that deal damage, once again will be relying entirely on weapon/guild/alliance war abilities for damage and healing abilities. NB are in the best position out of all the classes for this change: they got both a stamina based ambush and a stamina based surprise attack. And now, when spell resist and armor mitigation is finally very important to survivablility, any negative they had for marking a target has been taken away. Sorcs get what, 2 abilities that synergize half as well with pure med/stam builds as NB abilities; and now med/stam is going to be the dominant combination by far. I'm trying to hang in there ZOS, but it seems you keep listening to the wrong people. I enjoy a challenge, even when I feel I'm somewhat at a handicap; but what is about to roll out looks like very little fun in the eyes of a sorc with very little stam synergy and busted bubbles. I hope you guys can avoid this mess with a few insightful changes.Joeshock- AD NA AB Thorn Chill Sorc New Eden Low Sec Roamer
Fight not with monsters lest ye become one1 -
Soulac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
What makes NB better than other classes stamina-based?
Regeneration which is totally not needed with this passive? Surprise Attack?
Pls tell me cause i think that Templar and DK are as good as NB with Stamina.
Sorc is crap.Edited by Soulac on February 17, 2015 5:00PMR.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
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Sypher✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭CCing someone shouldn't be a bad combat decision. This passive isn't comparable to any other passive in the CS.
If they intend to keep this in the game, please give it an easy to see animation. I want to know not to CC someone with this passive.
Eventually everyone will have this passive and I'll just not use hard CC anymoreDC Dragonknight 'Sypher - AD Nightblade Sypher Ali - AD Sorcerer Sypher Sensei - EP Sorcerer Sypharian - DC Templar Ali Sypher
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Soulac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭CCing someone shouldn't be a bad combat decision. This passive isn't comparable to any other passive in the CS.
If they intend to keep this in the game, please give it an easy to see animation. I want to know not to CC someone with this passive.
Eventually everyone will have this passive and I'll just not use hard CC anymore
You see that the passive is "on", don´t worry! :PEdited by Soulac on February 17, 2015 5:43PMR.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
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