Future of High End PvE in 1.6 and after

Fecius · February 2015

Ok, since we got even 3 patches on PTS 1.6.0-1.6.2 High End PvE content future is still not clear for me and my guild members. PTS period will over soon, and I guess I can be in time with my thread.

I want to point once more. IT IS ABOUT HIGH END PVE. For PvP, Dungeons, Quests – look for other threads. Here is staff for Trials and Challenges!

1.6 going live soon, and what can we see on PTS… There are really tons of positive changes, but still are lots of pretty strange and simply bad solutions. Here we go!

There would be no High End PvE content till middle of summer or so (1st DLC approx. time? maybe, no clear info from ZOS at this point, cause it's still in dev-process). We have AA/HRC/SO as raid PvE content now and in 1.6. SO was nerfed, AA/HRC were buffed. I’m not sure there is any difficult content for those who already passed it before.

After numerous testing Aetherius Eight members managed to find out about DPS/Heal tips for 1.6 on PTS:

• You can ignore all stats, because the main impact comes from Weapon / Spell Power.
• You can ignore all armor 5 part sets, because you need only Weapon / Spell Power. Stack it and you will win: and let it be even 2+2+3+3+1(2) set bonuses where 1(2) is Master Great Sword or Master Daggers up to 3200+ Weapon Damage or 2600+ Spell Power. And yes, SO or AA loot is useless now. Don’t use it. Really.
• You will never get more Spell Power then Weapon Damage just because Two Handed weapon gives you both (Weapon/Spell Power) and Staffs give you just Spell Power. So, stamina >>>> magica in terms of DPS in PvE. Like 180° turn around. It’s not that a problem. In TOP PvE we don’t care at all about what we should use for DPS. If unarmed would give us even 1% more stable long distance DPS then magica or stamina, we would use it. Just deal with it. In PvE we will get MAXIMUM use of builds – DPS, flexibility, sustain. If we have build A and build B and DPS(A) = DPS(B), but we can Heal in A or gain ulty in A faster than in B, we would use build A for sure.
• You should just spam one button (Uppercut) to be a max DPS, using one Major Weapon Damage buff (Momentum, Surge…) Now even light attacks will LOW ur DPS, thx that new fast animations (yeah, they are cool, nicely done with animations, really). Enjoy this video on an example of NB (almost same for Sorcs, DKs and Templas).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2tejxZBA_o

It’s nice that AA and HRC got buffed, it’s sad that SO got nerfed. But is there any reason to go there?

• As we could see, the AA and HRC 12 vet lvl sets are nothing for vr14 players. Are they still there? Dropping in same way in AA or HRC? If “yes”, no point to farm it at all.
• As we could see, the SO sets are completely useless. And not only cause u need no more those stats different from Weapon /Spell Power, but also cause u have like 177 Weapon Damage on Vicious Ophidian Medium set and 299 or so Weapon Damage on CRAFTING Hunding’s Rage. Man, it’s best PvE loot! How can it be so bad?! It even has same enchantments like Craft! And Serpent loot from Sanctum Ophidia Difficult Mode has that “powerful” enchantment 774 Magica or Stamina in compare with Craft one 764! 10 more! Wow, what a buff. Are those sets still in loot list? If “Yes”, I don’t want to pass Trials any more. What for?! No viable loot at all. If “No”, then why didn’t u change all those already farmed sets making them useless? I’ve spent lots of time and money for best potions and farming all that SO sets and there HM versions. And now I feel it’s better to destroy it and get some purple-gold resins.
• And in 1.4.3 there was a statement that in SO difficult mode there would be Master Weapon drop. Now I can tell you, that it’s not true. 8 times or so 12 ppl of us killed Serpent in HM. No one got Master Weapon.

Classes in High End PvE

• Ok, now top DPS is 1-button-1-buff stamina build with Two-handed sword spamming Uppercut for any class. Still no rotation, it’s sad.
• And breaking news: Crushing Shock was nerfed. The only filler ability for Sorcs in magica builds. Goodbye magica Sorc, hello Zookeepers. No, pet based build is funny, sweet in low rated PvE, maybe dungeons oe quests. But Trials? Wowow. With all those triggers for pets u can’t be enough flexible for raids. Even magica Templars got that more useful DPS ability for spam then Sorcs and have slots for other usefull abilities
• No need in craft potions for PvE. Buffs doesn’t stack. In my opinion, it is bad. This varies good and bad raiders in same way like taking dmg in voids.

I start thinking that this game becomes all about PvP balance and does not care about High End PvE class balance. Definitely I will give it couple more chances to improve, cause I’m a true fan of TES Series and to tell the truth I’m subbed till July.

But I don’t want to reroll in DK or NB. I love my Sorc. But I still have a question to ZOS: tell me, what is YOUR vision of Sorcerers? How do YOU think they should deal DMG and what value should it be? You told us, then Pet-Sorc will be strong but “but not the King of DPS”. So what’s that magical mystery skillset/build? Magica or stamina DPS, Support, Debuffers, Heals or Tanks? Any tip, plz!

High end Raid PvE – do we have any future in it?

For now I can’t see any reason to clean trials. I even don't want to clean HM Serpent now. I truly hope there is some hidden one yet. Like new Supa-Dupa Unique Sets from Difficult Mode SO or so on. (Aha, in terms of our tests it should have next bonuses):

2 parts: X weapon/spell power
3 parts: X weapon/spell power
4 parts: X weapon/spell power
5 parts: X weapon/spell power, and some unique crap.

And I hope in future we will face 2-3 types of raid content in one like in best WoW traditions: Casual for “all”, Normal for “part” and Difficult Mode for “some”.

And I hope all classes would be competitive and really useful in High End PvE. 1 NB-tank, 2 Templars-Heal, 9 DK-DPS on live is BROKEN composition you can see on live. All magica or all stamina DPS as best are same broken. Try to find the way we need to fight bosses in different builds or ways and DPS sources. Like Mele-Range camps or Damage Shields on bosses that can be crushed only by magica or only by stamina abilities.

You are the devs, you are best in this, you are professionals in this. I still believe you can handle this!

P.S.: don’t forget to point all in patchnotes plz. Those hidden buffs/nerfs are frustrating.

And a little SO Tribute before it got nerfed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYAOXD0cLFQ

KiriX · February 2015

Great! But sad

I hope they (ZOS) will listen to you...

Exstazik · February 2015

Totally agree with every word.

Now i can understand why several times support wrote to me "Yeah i love sorc especially 2h build.Try it....."
if 2h spam ~15k+dps i want to know why Sorcs Pet not heat for the half of this DMG....you told us "Pet-Sorc will be strong ".Strong=10% max difference of the top DPS...ahhh yeah forgot 1 thing

>

Alcast · February 2015

Sadly it is true, ZOS is balancing everything around PvP and does not give a *** about PvE players.

Danisheraser · February 2015

I hope ZOS reads this, even though some is written out of frustration. SOME of it

angelyn · February 2015

Thank you for all the tips in your post OP. It really helps players like me know what to aim for.

I particularly like the idea in about 3 modes casual/normal/difficult and am glad that better players than me are feeding back about sorcerers, since I don't think people listen to crap players like me. $:\$

I'm a slow leveller and not an expert by any means-a humble sorc here just trying to make my way to the top. By the time I can participate in trials no one will want a magicka sorc..oh wait, that's now.

I hold to my opinion that PVE (especially sorcs) suffers due to changes implemented in order to resolve PVP issues.

*Runs off to level a sword*

xMovingTarget · February 2015

just get rid of PvP already

Fecius · February 2015

xMovingTarget wrote: »

just get rid of PvP already

No, it's not right. And I'm not asking for solution like this. Just need to find some ways to solve problems without creating more of them. Oh, yeah, it's not that easy, but still should be at least close to that way.

niocwy · February 2015

Just a couple of reactions/questions

You can ignore all stats, because the main impact comes from Weapon / Spell Power.

One would believe it's the reason behind the nerf to spell/weapon power enchants.
If we think about raw damage dealing, magicka/stam can be raised outside set-bonus', so that leaves us with choosing between crit or power, and penetration for some sets. And because crit lost its appeal with it no longer generating ultimate, and penetration being crap in PvE since always, it doesn't even surprise me.
I'm just wondering about sustainability in this scenario. What are your thoughts about it ?

Anyway, maybe soft caps were not a bad idea after all...or were they ?

You will never get more Spell Power then Weapon Damage just because Two Handed weapon gives you both (Weapon/Spell Power)

Is it only with 2 handed or all stam weapons ? And it reeeeaaally looks like a bug that they give you spell power. I can't think of any reason why they would.
EDIT : ok, I can think of one reason. So Magicka builds could have any type of weapon they like instead of being forced into staves.

You should just spam one button (Uppercut) to be a max DPS, using one Major Weapon Damage buff (Momentum, Surge…) Now even light attacks will LOW ur DPS, thx that new fast animations

I remember ZOS saying a while back that they wanted Uppercut to be the bread & butter of 2-handed skill line, so I guess it will definitely be that way. But maybe it's too overpowered if you don't need to do anything else.

In any case, every DPS build in ESO will always be spamming one big damaging skill while refreshing buffs/debuff/dots along with LA/HA weaving. But what you described seems a bit too brainless (as if it weren't enough already)

EDIT : typo

Exstazik · February 2015

Just overall what i see happens with TESO

What people want to see and what they got

NExt patch?:D

ThatNeonZebraAgain · February 2015

Thank you for this. I was so excited for 1.6 but it seems like so many things were poorly thought out...

firewatch · February 2015

If they are balancing for PvP, they are not doing a very good job. From what I've seen, it's just as broken. 2H is OP and Crushing Shock was nerfed to the point of uselessness. The one sorc ability that made them useful was negate.

ginoboehm · February 2015

firewatch wrote: »

If they are balancing for PvP, they are not doing a very good job. From what I've seen, it's just as broken. 2H is OP and Crushing Shock was nerfed to the point of uselessness. The one sorc ability that made them useful was negate.

Sorcs are super strong in pvp shieldstacking is the way there.

RinaldoGandolphi · February 2015

ginoboehm wrote: »

firewatch wrote: »

If they are balancing for PvP, they are not doing a very good job. From what I've seen, it's just as broken. 2H is OP and Crushing Shock was nerfed to the point of uselessness. The one sorc ability that made them useful was negate.

Sorcs are super strong in pvp shield stacking is the way there.

Super Strong, i wouldn't go that far.

there is a reason a few of us have built so we can Bolt Escape an insane number of times. Its not just for giggles either...any decent Templar/Two handed user can tear through your shields as fast as you can cast them.

You really don't think were just going to stick around do you? Nope

Sorcs are not Super Strong and Sheild Stacking is not all its cracked up to be. just saying.

ginoboehm · February 2015

woodsro wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

firewatch wrote: »

If they are balancing for PvP, they are not doing a very good job. From what I've seen, it's just as broken. 2H is OP and Crushing Shock was nerfed to the point of uselessness. The one sorc ability that made them useful was negate.

Sorcs are super strong in pvp shield stacking is the way there.

Super Strong, i wouldn't go that far.

there is a reason a few of us have built so we can Bolt Escape an insane number of times. Its not just for giggles either...any decent Templar/Two handed user can tear through your shields as fast as you can cast them.

You really don't think were just going to stick around do you? Nope

Sorcs are not Super Strong and Sheild Stacking is not all its cracked up to be. just saying.

Go dueling and we talk again

rogue_gamer32b14_ESO · February 2015

ZOS LISTEN TO YOUR PVE PLAYERS.....NOT JUST THE PVP PLAYERS. ELDER SCROLLS HAS AWAYS BEEN A PVE BASED GAME...NOT PVP.

ginoboehm · February 2015

rogue_gamer32b14_ESO wrote: »

ZOS LISTEN TO YOUR PVE PLAYERS.....NOT JUST THE PVP PLAYERS. ELDER SCROLLS HAS AWAYS BEEN A PVE BASED GAME...NOT PVP.

firewatch · February 2015

If you think PvP isn't broken by 1.6, check this out...
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/151164/can-we-get-a-hotfix-on-pts/p4

idk · February 2015

Another run on rant. People need to learn to be direct and get to the point if they want attention. This post is written poorly.

R3DTHR3AT · February 2015

Sets from Hardmode Sanctum Ophidia are useless. No reason to farm them at all. From normal mode too. Dont even imagine what will I do in game after 1.6.

daemonios · February 2015

I wholeheartedly agree with OP. 1.6 right now is a mess for PvE. Class balance is terrible, which will force certain classes out of end-game PvE content. Gear hasn't been updated to reflect the new mechanics, and what changes were made are often inexplicable (e.g. Wrath of the Imperium set went from 10% spell crit to 2%, though I think they may have boosted it to 4% - LOL - in 1.6.2).

This feels like a reboot of the game, a Beta 2.0 if you will. I'm playing less and less, even on live. I have little hope that ZOS are going to get their act together in time to keep my interest much longer.

Snit · February 2015

daemonios wrote: »

This feels like a reboot of the game, a Beta 2.0 if you will. I'm playing less and less, even on live. I have little hope that ZOS are going to get their act together in time to keep my interest much longer.

A rushed reboot, with a short deadline, and one which will be followed by a long period in which they focus on launching other platforms.

Fecius · February 2015

niocwy wrote: »

Just a couple of reactions/questions

One would believe it's the reason behind the nerf to spell/weapon power enchants.
If we think about raw damage dealing, magicka/stam can be raised outside set-bonus', so that leaves us with choosing between crit or power, and penetration for some sets. And because crit lost its appeal with it no longer generating ultimate, and penetration being crap in PvE since always, it doesn't even surprise me.
I'm just wondering about sustainability in this scenario. What are your thoughts about it ?

Anyway, maybe soft caps were not a bad idea after all...or were they ?

Well, as for me, DPS is for DPS. There are healers to heal some DMG, and there are eyes and hands to avoid some unhealable DMG. In raid for DPS there is only one goal, deal even more DPS and remember that dead hasn't it at all. But talking about long fights with bosses, i guess Dual Wield can perform more DPS then 2-handed. But we need more tests for it.

niocwy wrote: »

Is it only with 2 handed or all stam weapons ? And it reeeeaaally looks like a bug that they give you spell power. I can't think of any reason why they would.
EDIT : ok, I can think of one reason. So Magicka builds could have any type of weapon they like instead of being forced into staves.

I don't remember what's going on with bows, but i'm prety sure that dual swords give you spell power as well. And u get more Spell power with 2-handed then with a staff.

niocwy wrote: »

I remember ZOS saying a while back that they wanted Uppercut to be the bread & butter of 2-handed skill line, so I guess it will definitely be that way. But maybe it's too overpowered if you don't need to do anything else.

In any case, every DPS build in ESO will always be spamming one big damaging skill while refreshing buffs/debuff/dots along with LA/HA weaving. But what you described seems a bit too brainless (as if it weren't enough already)

Yes, you are right. Now some classes have almost same "rotation". Sorcs now, for ex., use C.Shock with light or semi-heavy attack and surge rebuff plus Elemental Drain or so on. DKs on live have much more interesting rotation 1 buff, 2 DOTs, 1debuff and C.Shock as a filler skill.

But in video you can see that he does some light atacks. But sumetimes it simply lowers your DPS. You need to perform a light atack just 1 time in 8 sek to get Ulty gain buff, but u can do em all the time, not that much difference in you DPS meter. But still need more solid tests.

A rotation, even if it's easy but not 1 button spam is way more interesting in PvE.

To all other guys.

Ty for being here. But I'm not talking about Sorcs. I just put them as an example, cause they are now weakest class in High End PvE on live (plz, notice - I'm not talking about PvP! I don't like PvP, i don't know what's going on there, and I don't want to know) - they can deal comparable with others DPS only in SO loot that DKs can beat in craft sets.

All this topic is about Raid PvE like Trials or more or less hard small group PvE like Vet DSA.

Alcast · February 2015

R3DTHR3AT wrote: »

Sets from Hardmode Sanctum Ophidia are useless. No reason to farm them at all. From normal mode too. Dont even imagine what will I do in game after 1.6.

Leaderboards

Though that will keep us playing for like a month or so I guess.

A1exeR · February 2015

All this words is true

Troneon · February 2015

I hate it when game companies balance a game around one game mode.

That is why PVP Skills and PVE skills should be separate, so when you balance for PVP it ONLY EFFECTS PVP and when you balance PVE it ONLY EFFECTS PVE.

Like 2 versions for each skill, one pvp version of the skill and one pve version of the skill.

It's what they did in Guild Wars 1 for guild vs guild / pvp. So they could make changes without it effecting pve and that's a 10 year old idea / game.