@ZOS Good luck at retaining returning players.

Ace_SiN · February 2015

The vet grind is still too much. Simply put, leveling is one of the most boring aspects of ESO. The 1-50 story is interesting compared to the competition, but everything after is where it starts to get old fast. Only a few of us, in my guild, came back to check out ESO recently and I'm the only one that's still around regularly.

My guild community had 70 join at ESO launch. I'm not sure if half that number will return for the b2p switch. However, I'm pretty sure that most of those that return will not be staying if the current grind stays the same. Everyday I get asked "Did they remove vet levels yet"? It doesn't help when I tell them that vet levels were increased..

ZOS needs to remove vet levels before the payment model change or drastically reduce the grind further. It would also help if having more than 2 people in a party didn't receive a massive xp hit. At least that way friends/guildies of any vet level could progress together without dragging the grind out further.

phairdon · February 2015

Only thing that bugged me about veteran zones, is replaying the same quests outside of the starter zones. Level 8-50 or thereabout.

Robbmrp · February 2015

You haven't seen anything yet. Wait till 1.6 goes live, now you also get to grind for Champion Points!

Loves_guars · February 2015

I returned this month, after leaving 9 months ago (left as v2)... I agree that the grind is still too painful. Dyes, vampire nerf and other changes are nice but veteran ranks kinda kill it.
I wish I had the choice to level through pvp but it's terrible slow.

Jitterbug · February 2015

Valid point. The vet levels need to go.
There is absolutely no sense in beating the game three times (three long snip times might I add) just to not auto-suck in PvP.

cyqa · February 2015

I don't mind doing the veteran rank grind right now, because I'm doing it for the first time. But the thought of making an alt and doing it again is not a pleasant one. With the current state of the game, I really doubt I would make an alt.

I have the benefit of being a casual player; I really feel for those that are less casual than me, who like alts, that have had to do the vet grind multiple times. In that light, I completely agree they need to be removed from the game.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2015

Vet levels.....I did hit the wall already

Athas24 · February 2015

phairdon wrote: »

Only thing that bugged me about veteran zones, is replaying the same quests outside of the starter zones. Level 8-50 or thereabout.

I completely agree with this statement. Typically if I want to play other zones in games that have separate factions, starter areas etc... I make an alt to have a completely different experience. If I don't want that, I just move on to other end game things. End game here goes back to the beginning and then back to the end game it seems. Wah waaa

AzraelKrieg · February 2015

The problem with the removal of the vet levels is they would have to retool every single vet level item in the game. Considering there are 9 levels of equipment materials across three skill lines, with one skill line using two different styles, the effort would be ridiculous. That's 36 materials that need changing and that's before the consumables need to be retooled. Paul Sage said on Elder Scrolls OTR that the removal of the vet system will happen after console release but it's not likely it will happen this year because of the amount of retooling needed. If they delayed the B2P launch, they would need to then delay the console release yet again which result in more lost revenue and potentially a dwindling of the current community.

Tavore1138 · February 2015

Vet levels are a pale shadow of the 100 times the grind for CP points. At least with vet levels you had the two other faction zones to quest through!

Ace_SiN · February 2015

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

The problem with the removal of the vet levels is they would have to retool every single vet level item in the game. Considering there are 9 levels of equipment materials across three skill lines, with one skill line using two different styles, the effort would be ridiculous. That's 36 materials that need changing and that's before the consumables need to be retooled. Paul Sage said on Elder Scrolls OTR that the removal of the vet system will happen after console release but it's not likely it will happen this year because of the amount of retooling needed. If they delayed the B2P launch, they would need to then delay the console release yet again which result in more lost revenue and potentially a dwindling of the current community.

I can accept that reasoning. That means they need to further reduce the xp needed, so this dull grind is actually tolerable. I mean if they actually care about retaining the surge of players on the 17th(new and old), as well as the console players later.

I don't know anyone out of those 70 members, from my community, that enjoyed the vet leveling experience. Not one single person.. We're not all a bunch of hardcore grinders to endgame either.

Champion points are actually a cool endgame progression feature(at least the core idea behind it). That was the point of vet ranks and it's implementation failed horribly for most. Now they just need to allow us to speed further through it.. Give a special mount or something to those that actually want to experience all 3 faction's 1-50 quests.

Kragorn · February 2015

I'll say it again as I said in in another thread: ZOS can't remove VR because if they do they have no content after 50.

VR content is straight-up vertical progression based an increasing character and mob levels, CS have nothing to do with scaling content 'power' in anything remotely resembling level-based.

What 'level' will mobs in, say, a VR8 zone be after VR goes?

On what basis can ZOS sensibly 'scale' mobs to a character whose level is 50 and has an arbitrary number of CPs spent .. remember, a newb 50 has ZERO while a vet newb 50 has scores, maybe hundreds. Those two characters can't possibly co-exist in the same zone and both be dealing with mobs scaled to their own 'power'.

The idea than open world content can scale to 'you' is just laughable when applied to open world content; yes, in 'groups' scaling can be based off, say, the leader's 'power' but in the open world there's no 'leader' for the game to base a scaling on.

Faulgor · February 2015

Simple solution until they remove them:

- If you have at least one VR14 character on your account, all new characters will automatically reach VR14 once reaching level 50 (instead of VR1).
- This does not add any exp towards champion points.

Might stay a bit longer if I can play my alts in endgame content as promised.

Ace_SiN · February 2015

Kragorn wrote: »

I'll say it again as I said in in another thread: ZOS can't remove VR because if they do they have no content after 50.

They don't have to remove it then, just reduce the grind. Not all "content" is worthwhile or adds anything of value to the overall game experience. 1-50 quests being forced on you 2 more times is not real content anyway.. "Hey you've reached endgame, now go through it all again, but with a different view".

Kragorn wrote: »

VR content is straight-up vertical progression based an increasing character and mob levels, CS have nothing to do with scaling content 'power' in anything remotely resembling level-based.

VR content is vertical progression and so is the CS. While you may not equip gear with a different number attached to it, it still makes you stronger over someone else. Unlike horizontal progression where it's just a different form of power and not actually a boost in it(like adding a new skill line). Their goals are the same though. Endgame progression. One key difference is that the CS doesn't make creating an alt feel like a life decision.. One failed horribly with the masses while the other is meant to be a second take at it(which is why it's a matter of when, not if, vet ranks will be removed).

I get that redoing all of this vet mess will take a lot of time. So, in the meantime, they need to further reduce the grind. If not, say goodbye to most returning players and a chunk of console gamers.

Ace_SiN · February 2015

Faulgor wrote: »

Simple solution until they remove them:

- If you have at least one VR14 character on your account, all new characters will automatically reach VR14 once reaching level 50 (instead of VR1).
- This does not add any exp towards champion points.

Might stay a bit longer if I can play my alts in endgame content as promised.

I actually agree with this. I would prefer that they would just be removed, but this would be huge on its own.

LtCrunch · February 2015

Faulgor wrote: »

Simple solution until they remove them:

- If you have at least one VR14 character on your account, all new characters will automatically reach VR14 once reaching level 50 (instead of VR1).
- This does not add any exp towards champion points.

Might stay a bit longer if I can play my alts in endgame content as promised.

I would definitely support this.

BlueIllyrian · February 2015

Retention, who needs retention when hordes of console players will bring billions to the game? Them being all starved to that for watered down Skyrim mmo and oozing cash to purchase pink unicorns.

Audigy · February 2015

Ace_SiN wrote: »

The vet grind is still too much. Simply put, leveling is one of the most boring aspects of ESO. The 1-50 story is interesting compared to the competition, but everything after is where it starts to get old fast. Only a few of us, in my guild, came back to check out ESO recently and I'm the only one that's still around regularly.

My guild community had 70 join at ESO launch. I'm not sure if half that number will return for the b2p switch. However, I'm pretty sure that most of those that return will not be staying if the current grind stays the same. Everyday I get asked "Did they remove vet levels yet"? It doesn't help when I tell them that vet levels were increased..

ZOS needs to remove vet levels before the payment model change or drastically reduce the grind further. It would also help if having more than 2 people in a party didn't receive a massive xp hit. At least that way friends/guildies of any vet level could progress together without dragging the grind out further.

The Vet zones at least offer you new content! Once you are done with the Vet zones, the real grind behind with the CS.

You either kill the same mob all day, run dungeons or trials or you do daily quests. This is the real problem with ESO and not the VET zones.

BlueIllyrian · February 2015

Audigy wrote: »

Ace_SiN wrote: »

The vet grind is still too much. Simply put, leveling is one of the most boring aspects of ESO. The 1-50 story is interesting compared to the competition, but everything after is where it starts to get old fast. Only a few of us, in my guild, came back to check out ESO recently and I'm the only one that's still around regularly.

My guild community had 70 join at ESO launch. I'm not sure if half that number will return for the b2p switch. However, I'm pretty sure that most of those that return will not be staying if the current grind stays the same. Everyday I get asked "Did they remove vet levels yet"? It doesn't help when I tell them that vet levels were increased..

ZOS needs to remove vet levels before the payment model change or drastically reduce the grind further. It would also help if having more than 2 people in a party didn't receive a massive xp hit. At least that way friends/guildies of any vet level could progress together without dragging the grind out further.

The Vet zones at least offer you new content! Once you are done with the Vet zones, the real grind behind with the CS.

You either kill the same mob all day, run dungeons or trials or you do daily quests. This is the real problem with ESO and not the VET zones.

Yep, same in Star Trek Online - last expansion had grand total of 8 "quests" but over 20 ships to purchase.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2015

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

The problem with the removal of the vet levels is they would have to retool every single vet level item in the game. Considering there are 9 levels of equipment materials across three skill lines, with one skill line using two different styles, the effort would be ridiculous. That's 36 materials that need changing and that's before the consumables need to be retooled. Paul Sage said on Elder Scrolls OTR that the removal of the vet system will happen after console release but it's not likely it will happen this year because of the amount of retooling needed. If they delayed the B2P launch, they would need to then delay the console release yet again which result in more lost revenue and potentially a dwindling of the current community.

People aren't suggesting to keep the VET items, etc.
So everyone keeps saying similar things but if the VET content is removed, items would go too

The simple fix is to have armor/weapons mailed to everyone or an armore pack be free from certain vendor (tokens) for VR characters and then all gear with vet levels would be unusable but ppl can still DE, trade, sale those items for vendor gold or tokens to convert into new armor.

It's a simple fix that takes time to implement but ZOS's excuses are not valid considering how long it's been since they said they are looking at changing this.

(None of this is targeted at you)

NewBlacksmurf · February 2015

Faulgor wrote: »

Simple solution until they remove them:

- If you have at least one VR14 character on your account, all new characters will automatically reach VR14 once reaching level 50 (instead of VR1).
- This does not add any exp towards champion points.

Might stay a bit longer if I can play my alts in endgame content as promised.

+1

Seraphyel · February 2015

ESO has exactly two problems for returning players:

* No new content since September and even then Craglorn was "half there"

* Veteran Ranks still existing while being the most boring and awful aspect I've ever seen in any MMORPG

As long as Zenimax doesn't fix those issues, no returning player will stay for long.

Sad story: they stated VR will be here for at least another 6 months AND there won't be new content till console launch, so for another 6 months.

TheShadowScout · February 2015

We'll see how it goes...

I for one eagerly await the dissapereance of veteran ranks. I can understand they may need time to worry about rebalancing everything and how to implement the change without breaking other parts of their game, but I really wish they'd have it done sooner. But until then... well, at least there will be champion points to grind, and legerdemain skills to rise... guards to dodge and pockets to pick... and I even have a few alts not through the mainstory.

Personally I wouldn't even care if they nerfed everything veteran back to level 50, stats, gear, silver/gold areas, dungeons, trials, etc., and let the champion system take over right away... though I can see how all too many players would then wail about loosing their hard earned post-50 progress. (I suppose if they did that, they'd also have to give more credit for vet levels earned on multiple characters)

Of course, the resources they currently have working on champion and justice system are not working on new content, which is keenly felt by many. Though one hopes that this too will change once they finish up those things. DLC or not. Eager to see Wrotzhgar, Murkmire and Imperial City someday, and doubly so for thieves guild and dark brotherhood...

NadiusMaximus · February 2015

My friends that left = Cool, you say 1.6 is coming in March.
Me= yup
Friends= sweet, I'll come back and checkout Imperial city.
Me= oh, that's been scratched till probably September.
Friends= well good, that will give us time to level spellcrafting.
Me= uh, no, it's been pushed back too.
Friends= till when
Me= don't know
Friends=at least the justice systems in though, right.
Me= yup
Friend1=awesome, gonna grind out the Dark brotherhood with me
Freind 2= those guys are wuss, join the thieves guild, they get stuff
Me= uh, neither are in till after September, maybe next year, maybe.
Friend=well, crap, that sucks, what's in 1.6 worth coming back for.
ME=CHAMPION SYSTEM!
Friends= wtf?
Me= it's a new point system.
Friends=oh, so the veteran systems got huh?
Me= not till after September, next year maybe.
Friends=well ***, at least it's not free to play
Me= well.. .....

I didn't even mention the crown store, but I hope they sell friends in it, because mine sure as hell won't play this game ever again.

Sphinx2318 · February 2015

@NadiusMaximus

post of the day sir! Hope ZOS reads it.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · February 2015

cecibergesnrb18_ESO wrote: »

I returned this month, after leaving 9 months ago (left as v2)... I agree that the grind is still too painful. Dyes, vampire nerf and other changes are nice but veteran ranks kinda kill it.
I wish I had the choice to level through pvp but it's terrible slow.

I dont understand this. The game has only been out for 9 months...

Sallington · February 2015

The worst part is that PvP is the only alternative to Caldwell's Silver/Gold for non-grind leveling, and the PvP xp is so unbelievably slow.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · February 2015

Sallington wrote: »

The worst part is that PvP is the only alternative to Caldwell's Silver/Gold for non-grind leveling, and the PvP xp is so unbelievably slow.

Hey but soon you can buy xp boosts.

deepseamk20b14_ESO · February 2015

ooooo, give me stuff now! I don't want to have to work for it at all!!!!! Awesome American mentality.

Karmine · February 2015

cecibergesnrb18_ESO wrote: »

I returned this month, after leaving 9 months ago (left as v2)... I agree that the grind is still too painful. Dyes, vampire nerf and other changes are nice but veteran ranks kinda kill it.
I wish I had the choice to level through pvp but it's terrible slow.

Just so you know as Veteran Rank 2, you can go to Craiglorn. Make a group of Veteran Ranks 1-5 or something and start doing Craiglorn quests.
(This coming from a guy who also left many months ago cause Veteran Grind and just came back)

Shadesofkin · February 2015

I used to say it would go a long way if they had just voiced some material to make silver and gold more endgame-ish. Meridia suggests you bring balance to all of Tamriel, so now the silver and gold quests might have the feel of the 1-50, but they focus on something else, the quest to restore balance. Have everyone recognize who you are and what youve done instead of the "no one, not even your friends will remember you" hooey. Make the occasional alliance fanatic attack you because you served (insert high king or queen here) first.

I know that's a lot of work, but it'd do more for endgame than VR alone ever did.