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Crown Store Items and Prices definitely sounds P2W to me
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Harleyquincey✭✭✭I do think that someone has clearly not even the slightest clue of what "OP" or "pw2" do mean. At all.
If you seriously think of the Repair Kit of all items to be "p2w" then, sorry, then i just can recommend to you: earn some gold ingame.
I barely notice repair costs, I auto-repair every item as soon as I open any vendor since it's .. insignificant, completely. I remember other games where repairing could really severely impact your finances. Here? Here it's just a mini goldsink, the scale of a snowflake in a blizzard and every bit as meaningful.
I just don't get it, really, not even the slightest bit, sorry. I did read your statement about "prevent the future addition of p2w items!" but sorry, this isn't a social justice warrior platform, this is a game. Feel free to "protest" once items that are indeed p2w get added, like armor that has superior stats to what you can find (or has stats at all, that case not entirely be p2w yet but not really nice either) or the addition of an invulnerability potion for PvP, an instant-ress button even in the thick of a fight, a soul reservoir reset item e.g. Those would really be p2w - but a repair kit that repairs all items? Shockin! That must save like 200 gold. I can't even picture anyone ever buying that item except for being clueless.EU Server
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kongkim✭✭✭✭✭Looking forward to get my exp boosters. Was a little dispointet that they are not in store on the test server.
And really.. Repair kit P2W
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JamilaRaj✭✭✭✭✭
✭WraithAzraiel wrote: »No they didn't. The only differences between this Repair Kit and the ones you buy for gold is the ones you buy for gold have a level range and are 1 kit per item repaired.
Rumor is the Crown Shop kits repair everything with just one kit. HOW IS THIS PAY TO WIN? If anything all it's doing is saving you time and gold.
And that is why it's pay2win.WraithAzraiel wrote: »Time: The time it takes to find the vendor that sells the kit appropriate to your level.
Gold is also function of time; if you do X for amount of time, you'll get gold.WraithAzraiel wrote: »Gold: By spending RL currency you're not spending in game gold, which you can use to buy other things.
Exactly. RL currency equates to gold spent on repairs (potentially many thousands), gold equates to items you can buy with them (potentially powerful, top end gear). Therefore, RL currency equates to gear; it's P2W.Edited by JamilaRaj on February 8, 2015 12:33PM7 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AlexDougherty wrote: »How is it P2W?
oh wait, it's not...
When did they lie? Oh wait, they didn't... They said from get go that potions from the store won't be better than crafted potions but slightly better than potions bought ingame. Info from the B2P announcement video. Get your facts right before vomiting garbage on the forums please
They clearly said items in the crown shop would not be an better than items sold in game by vendors but repair kits That repair every broken item in your inventory are far superior to kits that only repair one item within a certain level range.
OK, but it's like a couple of hundred gold to repair to gear, if you do it sensibly, so not much of an advantage.
That's beside the point. It's "only" couple of hundred now. Better is better no matter how small the difference is and according to their own words, it's should not be better. And cash shop game hasn't even started yet. Remember, the most scary part of cash shops is the possibility to slowly creep towards more difference between in game and cash shop. And excuses like "it's only" do not help in preventing this from happening.
Any kind of difference or advantage can be excused with "if you do it sensibly". Do you really want to make excuses for someone who has already proven does not stick to their own promises? I guess you do, as you probably see it as helping. I am just wondering who or what you are helping with that?
The problem is that the difference between the two methods is insufficient to say that the new repair kits are pay to win.
In order for them to be Pay to win, they need to offer a clear and sufficient advantage! They don't do that, they offer a vague and slight advantage.
Now they might be the thin end of the wedge, and I can respect that arguement, but they are not yet Pay to Win.
And for who I am trying to help, well I am trying to point out the flaws in the arguement, so you can find the actual problems, and refocus upon them.
As I just said, if you want a problem it's not that they themselves are Pay to Win, but that they set the groundwork for items that are progressively closer to such.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule0 -
Welka✭✭✭✭✭When a repair kit makes you win a raid or a PvP battle, then you can call them pay 2 win. But last time I checked, using a repair kit while fighting a boss didn't drop it dead.
I guess at this point it's useless to state the obvious to stubborn people. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
It will probably be pay 2 win when they need the gold, potion and gem drops. Which is very likely to happen. I don't do farming or trading, yet I have 600k gold banked and about 100k on my toons, and it keeps growing. I have about 500 grand soul gems in bank and 80 on my main. A few stacks of dropped health and stamina potions, and enough mats to craft 6 months or more worth of good potions. I also stack repair kits dropped from writs since, like I said, there is no need for them.
So from all the items on the store, the ones you describe as p2w are the ones that are the less useful or needed in game.
I will use the crown store, happily, for pets and costumes. But these items are the last ones I need. It might be useful when you're new ingame and levelling, but at max level, you just pile them up while questing1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭m.stollb16_ESO wrote: »Edit: But then again, even that would still be ok
The very worst case would be reduced spawn rates for alchemy ingredients and crown store consumables that are needed to stay competitive in PvP or are needed to complete trials/the veteran dragonstar arena or even veteran dungeons. That would be terrible. Or legendary materials, nirncrux stones and rare set items sold directly in the crown store. But I don't think they would ever do that (no subscription MMOG I know has ever done that when it went free to play)
Champions and Star Trek Online did that. Well, Star Trek gated all their crafting through a grind currency, and then, much latter, started selling rare crafting mats through lockboxes.
Champions didn't mess with crafting originally, but they later overhauled it, and stuck the... catalysts? I think, into the store. Want to improve an upgrade to the highest tier, it's something like 30 bucks just to go from 8 to 9.0 -
Welka✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »m.stollb16_ESO wrote: »Edit: But then again, even that would still be ok The very worst case would be reduced spawn rates for alchemy ingredients and crown store consumables that are needed to stay competitive in PvP or are needed to complete trials/the veteran dragonstar arena or even veteran dungeons. That would be terrible. Or legendary materials, nirncrux stones and rare set items sold directly in the crown store. But I don't think they would ever do that (no subscription MMOG I know has ever done that when it went free to play)
Champions and Star Trek Online did that. Well, Star Trek gated all their crafting through a grind currency, and then, much latter, started selling rare crafting mats through lockboxes.
Champions didn't mess with crafting originally, but they later overhauled it, and stuck the... catalysts? I think, into the store. Want to improve an upgrade to the highest tier, it's something like 30 bucks just to go from 8 to 9.
Jesus, I'll be back on Minecraft before that happens. At thi moment in time, there's nothing P2W in store but time will tell.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »m.stollb16_ESO wrote: »Edit: But then again, even that would still be ok The very worst case would be reduced spawn rates for alchemy ingredients and crown store consumables that are needed to stay competitive in PvP or are needed to complete trials/the veteran dragonstar arena or even veteran dungeons. That would be terrible. Or legendary materials, nirncrux stones and rare set items sold directly in the crown store. But I don't think they would ever do that (no subscription MMOG I know has ever done that when it went free to play)
Champions and Star Trek Online did that. Well, Star Trek gated all their crafting through a grind currency, and then, much latter, started selling rare crafting mats through lockboxes.
Champions didn't mess with crafting originally, but they later overhauled it, and stuck the... catalysts? I think, into the store. Want to improve an upgrade to the highest tier, it's something like 30 bucks just to go from 8 to 9.
Jesus, I'll be back on Minecraft before that happens. At thi moment in time, there's nothing P2W in store but time will tell.
Oh man, I was not making a suggestion. Just pointing out that Cryptic did a really fantastic job of screwing over their loyal fans.0 -
Welka✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »m.stollb16_ESO wrote: »Edit: But then again, even that would still be ok The very worst case would be reduced spawn rates for alchemy ingredients and crown store consumables that are needed to stay competitive in PvP or are needed to complete trials/the veteran dragonstar arena or even veteran dungeons. That would be terrible. Or legendary materials, nirncrux stones and rare set items sold directly in the crown store. But I don't think they would ever do that (no subscription MMOG I know has ever done that when it went free to play)
Champions and Star Trek Online did that. Well, Star Trek gated all their crafting through a grind currency, and then, much latter, started selling rare crafting mats through lockboxes.
Champions didn't mess with crafting originally, but they later overhauled it, and stuck the... catalysts? I think, into the store. Want to improve an upgrade to the highest tier, it's something like 30 bucks just to go from 8 to 9.
Jesus, I'll be back on Minecraft before that happens. At thi moment in time, there's nothing P2W in store but time will tell.
Oh man, I was not making a suggestion. Just pointing out that Cryptic did a really fantastic job of screwing over their loyal fans.
Oh I wasn't saying you were. Just insisting on the fact that the crown store as it is now is fine, I quite like the fluff it can bring and as long as it stays the same that's fine, but when it will change (not if), then we'll have to see but I'm part of the players who will never pay a dime to be competitive, but will happily spend a fiver a month for some fluff or fun. Even XP boosts don't bother me, if people want to get to max level fast that's fine by me, it means I'll have to wait less time to have more players at my rank to play with
Edited by Welka on February 8, 2015 1:27PM0 -
Demeos✭✭✭There's only one place you'd need a repair kit. Dungeons.
However I do agree that non-cashshop repair kits need to do full repairs. Their usefulness at the moment is almost negligible compared to porting over to a merchant real quick.1 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There's only one place you'd need a repair kit. Dungeons.
However I do agree that non-cashshop repair kits need to do full repairs. Their usefulness at the moment is almost negligible compared to porting over to a merchant real quick.
Now that I can agree with, the utter uselessness of the ingame repair kits means they get sidelined, getting them to repair at decent amount, maybe even all the damage would be a great idea.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule0 -
When you see max level gear, that's better than anything in the game in the Crown Store, then make a post like this. Otherwise everything in there is convenience and cosmetic.1 -
Snit✭✭✭✭✭
✭goldnugget wrote: »currently, THE BEST REPAIR KIT IN THE GAME is in the p2w cash shop. THAT IS PAY 2 WIN!
Absolutely. Personally, I plan to strap that kit to the end of a nightwood club, then bludgeon folks to death in Cyrodil.
(Alternately, I could decide that saving gold on repairs is an advantage, but not every advantage is "winning." There's a spectrum here between vanity pets and selling best-in-slot gear, and the repair kits don't seem that radical).Snit AD Sorc
Ratbag AD Warden Tank
Goblins AD Stamblade2 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Believe me, I absolutely detest cash shops. I will be the first one to raise the red flag if/when we start seeing things in the Crown Store that I perceive as P2W.
But it isn't at that stage.. yet. Most of this stuff is just fluff. If/when they start selling gear/weapons or anything that increases character stats, then we will have an issue.
Personally my biggest concern is that they will be tempted to put blue/purple/gold crafting tempers in the store. Hireling nerfs (especially enchanting hirelings) alarmingly point in that direction. This would be straight up P2W because you could then use a credit card to craft Epic Gear.
But right now, the store is pretty harmless imo.Edited by Alphashado on February 8, 2015 4:37PM0 -
Snit✭✭✭✭✭
✭Alphashado wrote: »Personally my biggest concern is that they will be tempted to put blue/purple/gold crafting tempers in the store
That would, indeed, make for a good canary in the coal mine.Snit AD Sorc
Ratbag AD Warden Tank
Goblins AD Stamblade0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WraithAzraiel wrote: »AlexDougherty wrote: »How is it P2W?
oh wait, it's not...
When did they lie? Oh wait, they didn't... They said from get go that potions from the store won't be better than crafted potions but slightly better than potions bought ingame. Info from the B2P announcement video. Get your facts right before vomiting garbage on the forums please
They clearly said items in the crown shop would not be an better than items sold in game by vendors but repair kits That repair every broken item in your inventory are far superior to kits that only repair one item within a certain level range.
OK, but it's like a couple of hundred gold to repair to gear, if you do it sensibly, so not much of an advantage.
That's beside the point. It's "only" couple of hundred now. Better is better no matter how small the difference is and according to their own words, it's should not be better. And cash shop game hasn't even started yet. Remember, the most scary part of cash shops is the possibility to slowly creep towards more difference between in game and cash shop. And excuses like "it's only" do not help in preventing this from happening.
Any kind of difference or advantage can be excused with "if you do it sensibly". Do you really want to make excuses for someone who has already proven does not stick to their own promises? I guess you do, as you probably see it as helping. I am just wondering who or what you are helping with that?
Still don't see the point about repair kits since... who the hell uses repair kits!?
TP in town, repair, TP back to instance. And honestly since you can faceroll any instance these days, who needs to repair anyway?
A THOUSAND TIMES THIS
I'll try to explain his point for you.
He was saying that the developers broke their promise because the repair kits in the cash shop are better than the repair kits you buy from the vendors.
Rather the items help you win or not is a useless semantic debate about what the word win means. The more significant point is that they appear to already be breaking their stated boundaries regarding the cash shop and it's not even up and running yet.Edited by Jeremy on February 8, 2015 4:38PM0 -
Snit✭✭✭✭✭
✭.
He was saying that the developers broke their promise because the repair kits in the cash shop are better than the repair kits you buy from the vendors.
Rather the items help you win or not is a useless semantic debate about what the word win means. The more significant point is that they appear to already be breaking their stated boundaries regarding the cash shop and it's not even up and running yet.
I agree with your second point, and I at least understand the first one. Perhaps there might be a second disagreement on the semantics of "best-in-slot items." If I can't wear it, wield it, consume it or ride it, I don't consider it an 'item' in the same sense.
As repair kits do impact in-game numbers, though, I can understand reaching a different conclusion.Snit AD Sorc
Ratbag AD Warden Tank
Goblins AD Stamblade0 -
Welka✭✭✭✭✭WraithAzraiel wrote: »AlexDougherty wrote: »How is it P2W?
oh wait, it's not...
When did they lie? Oh wait, they didn't... They said from get go that potions from the store won't be better than crafted potions but slightly better than potions bought ingame. Info from the B2P announcement video. Get your facts right before vomiting garbage on the forums please
They clearly said items in the crown shop would not be an better than items sold in game by vendors but repair kits That repair every broken item in your inventory are far superior to kits that only repair one item within a certain level range.
OK, but it's like a couple of hundred gold to repair to gear, if you do it sensibly, so not much of an advantage.
That's beside the point. It's "only" couple of hundred now. Better is better no matter how small the difference is and according to their own words, it's should not be better. And cash shop game hasn't even started yet. Remember, the most scary part of cash shops is the possibility to slowly creep towards more difference between in game and cash shop. And excuses like "it's only" do not help in preventing this from happening.
Any kind of difference or advantage can be excused with "if you do it sensibly". Do you really want to make excuses for someone who has already proven does not stick to their own promises? I guess you do, as you probably see it as helping. I am just wondering who or what you are helping with that?
Still don't see the point about repair kits since... who the hell uses repair kits!?
TP in town, repair, TP back to instance. And honestly since you can faceroll any instance these days, who needs to repair anyway?
A THOUSAND TIMES THIS
I'll try to explain his point for you.
He was saying that the developers broke their promise because the repair kits in the cash shop are better than the repair kits you buy from the vendors.
Rather the items help you win or not is a useless semantic debate about what the word win means. The more significant point is that they appear to already be breaking their stated boundaries regarding the cash shop and it's not even up and running yet.
They're not better, just more convenient. I prefer kits that repair all in one go. What would you prefer, that they sell the same kits than in game and cut the crown price by 7? What difference does it make? None...
They are no better and won't help you win.Edited by Welka on February 8, 2015 4:53PM2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WraithAzraiel wrote: »AlexDougherty wrote: »How is it P2W?
oh wait, it's not...
When did they lie? Oh wait, they didn't... They said from get go that potions from the store won't be better than crafted potions but slightly better than potions bought ingame. Info from the B2P announcement video. Get your facts right before vomiting garbage on the forums please
They clearly said items in the crown shop would not be an better than items sold in game by vendors but repair kits That repair every broken item in your inventory are far superior to kits that only repair one item within a certain level range.
OK, but it's like a couple of hundred gold to repair to gear, if you do it sensibly, so not much of an advantage.
That's beside the point. It's "only" couple of hundred now. Better is better no matter how small the difference is and according to their own words, it's should not be better. And cash shop game hasn't even started yet. Remember, the most scary part of cash shops is the possibility to slowly creep towards more difference between in game and cash shop. And excuses like "it's only" do not help in preventing this from happening.
Any kind of difference or advantage can be excused with "if you do it sensibly". Do you really want to make excuses for someone who has already proven does not stick to their own promises? I guess you do, as you probably see it as helping. I am just wondering who or what you are helping with that?
Still don't see the point about repair kits since... who the hell uses repair kits!?
TP in town, repair, TP back to instance. And honestly since you can faceroll any instance these days, who needs to repair anyway?
A THOUSAND TIMES THIS
I'll try to explain his point for you.
He was saying that the developers broke their promise because the repair kits in the cash shop are better than the repair kits you buy from the vendors.
Rather the items help you win or not is a useless semantic debate about what the word win means. The more significant point is that they appear to already be breaking their stated boundaries regarding the cash shop and it's not even up and running yet.
They're not better, just more convenient. I prefer kits that repair all in one go. What would you prefer, that they sell the same kits than in game and cut the crown price by 7? What difference dis it make? None...
They are no better and won't help you win.
If they are more convenient then they are better. Which is why even you say you prefer them. So not sure what you are trying to say there.
And you are missing my point about his point. It's not about rather they help you win or not - which as I said is a silly debate about semantics I don't want to engage.
It's about the company playing loose with the truth by saying the cash shop wouldn't sell items that are better than what you can buy from the in-game vendors.Edited by Jeremy on February 8, 2015 4:55PM0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »Go play SWTOR where you have to pay to equip raid gear. Then you'll see what P2W is.
That still is not pay to win. Swtor is still a sub game with a painfully complicated f2p system. If did NOT have a sub option that waved all of those restrictions it would then be a pay to win system. To avoid all issues you simply sub which is exactly what Bioware wants you to do. It is simply a complicated trial system and exists entirely because Bioware MUST protect their subscribers. F2p players simply pay to be on par if they wish not to sub. 100% NOT pay to win.
It is very clear that most posters here have zero clue what a pay to win game is. DL certain eastern mmos and find out the very harsh reality of what pay to win really means. You will see systems where you MUST buy things like enchantments and buffs to even remotely have a chance to take on ANY end game content. The cost of those buffs often increase exponentially allowing people willing to pay $1000 to obtain levels of power impossible to gain by normal game play. The option to play the game without the cash shop DOES NOT EXIST!!! THAT is pay to win.
Paying to be on par is the same thing as P2W to me. If you you want to play semantics, I am fine with calling it P2BOP(Pay to be on par) as opposed to P2W. Pay to be on par is just as bad as pay to win to me.
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Welka✭✭✭✭✭WraithAzraiel wrote: »AlexDougherty wrote: »How is it P2W?
oh wait, it's not...
When did they lie? Oh wait, they didn't... They said from get go that potions from the store won't be better than crafted potions but slightly better than potions bought ingame. Info from the B2P announcement video. Get your facts right before vomiting garbage on the forums please
They clearly said items in the crown shop would not be an better than items sold in game by vendors but repair kits That repair every broken item in your inventory are far superior to kits that only repair one item within a certain level range.
OK, but it's like a couple of hundred gold to repair to gear, if you do it sensibly, so not much of an advantage.
That's beside the point. It's "only" couple of hundred now. Better is better no matter how small the difference is and according to their own words, it's should not be better. And cash shop game hasn't even started yet. Remember, the most scary part of cash shops is the possibility to slowly creep towards more difference between in game and cash shop. And excuses like "it's only" do not help in preventing this from happening.
Any kind of difference or advantage can be excused with "if you do it sensibly". Do you really want to make excuses for someone who has already proven does not stick to their own promises? I guess you do, as you probably see it as helping. I am just wondering who or what you are helping with that?
Still don't see the point about repair kits since... who the hell uses repair kits!?
TP in town, repair, TP back to instance. And honestly since you can faceroll any instance these days, who needs to repair anyway?
A THOUSAND TIMES THIS
I'll try to explain his point for you.
He was saying that the developers broke their promise because the repair kits in the cash shop are better than the repair kits you buy from the vendors.
Rather the items help you win or not is a useless semantic debate about what the word win means. The more significant point is that they appear to already be breaking their stated boundaries regarding the cash shop and it's not even up and running yet.
They're not better, just more convenient. I prefer kits that repair all in one go. What would you prefer, that they sell the same kits than in game and cut the crown price by 7? What difference dis it make? None...
They are no better and won't help you win.
If they are more convenient then they are better. Which is why even you say you prefer them. So not sure what you are trying to say there.
And you are missing my point about his point. It's not about rather they help you win or not - which as I said is a silly debate about semantics I don't want to engage.
It's about the company playing loose with the truth by saying the cash shop wouldn't sell items that are better than what you can buy from the in-game vendors.
Could you please link where they said because from what I remember of B2P presentation video, they did say potions would be slightly better or different than the ones found in game, but no better than the crafted ones. And I don't recall them mentioning repair kits.
And still, they aren't better :P1 -
Bouvin✭✭✭✭✭
✭snip
With what's on there right now, it's not P2W.
The potions are not better than dropped stuff that fills up most people's inventory.
The horses aren't faster than others, because well not you have riding skill.
The costumes don't offer any advantage.
HOWEVER, I believe they have more items planned that could be P2W but they aren't putting them on PTS for testing because of the outcry that would happen.
This is because Cash Shops won't make money long-term with just mounts and costumes and stuff.... so they have to add more and more enticing items which eventually become P2W.
I watched this same progression happen with LoTRO when it went F2P. At first cash shop just had cosmetics and zones/expansions (DLC), but gradually moved to stuff you had to buy to stay viable in end game.2 -
Welka✭✭✭✭✭snip
With what's on there right now, it's not P2W.
The potions are not better than dropped stuff that fills up most people's inventory.
The horses aren't faster than others, because well not you have riding skill.
The costumes don't offer any advantage.
HOWEVER, I believe they have more items planned that could be P2W but they aren't putting them on PTS for testing because of the outcry that would happen.
This is because Cash Shops won't make money long-term with just mounts and costumes and stuff.... so they have to add more and more enticing items which eventually become P2W.
I watched this same progression happen with LoTRO when it went F2P. At first cash shop just had cosmetics and zones/expansions (DLC), but gradually moved to stuff you had to buy to stay viable in end game.
Yes, I'm afraid this is inevitable0 -
bosmern_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't think you understand what P2W means, it seems most people are just throwing the phrase around to try and demand change.
P2W = Pay to Win. This means a player can use real life currency to buy items in game to give them and advantage or a crutch to make them stronger than other players. This means buying weapons, and armor, or some sort of buff to make them stronger.
But this is not the case for ESO, The only things you will be able to buy that's not cosmetic is Potions and soul gems. The potions that will be sold in the Crown store will be much lesser than that of a player crafted potion (They don't sell tri pots btw). In no way does that give a player an advantage over another. The soul gems are bound to your character and cannot be sold. But they can be used to resurrect another player (which in reality benefits other characters more) and to save a bit of Gold (ESO money) on buying soul gems.
~Thallen~0 -
Tamanous✭✭✭✭✭kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »P2W or not , ESO is making an obvious money grab. Disgusting.
It was the only viable payment model for the release of console. It also answers the issue of gating the game from many players. I see zero reasons to ever even use the cash shop to play the game fully.
Your complaint holds no concern for the issues ZoS faces with a multi-platform release. You may not like it but simply calling it a cash grab is a statement based on ignorance.Edited by Tamanous on February 8, 2015 5:34PM1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WraithAzraiel wrote: »AlexDougherty wrote: »How is it P2W?
oh wait, it's not...
When did they lie? Oh wait, they didn't... They said from get go that potions from the store won't be better than crafted potions but slightly better than potions bought ingame. Info from the B2P announcement video. Get your facts right before vomiting garbage on the forums please
They clearly said items in the crown shop would not be an better than items sold in game by vendors but repair kits That repair every broken item in your inventory are far superior to kits that only repair one item within a certain level range.
OK, but it's like a couple of hundred gold to repair to gear, if you do it sensibly, so not much of an advantage.
That's beside the point. It's "only" couple of hundred now. Better is better no matter how small the difference is and according to their own words, it's should not be better. And cash shop game hasn't even started yet. Remember, the most scary part of cash shops is the possibility to slowly creep towards more difference between in game and cash shop. And excuses like "it's only" do not help in preventing this from happening.
Any kind of difference or advantage can be excused with "if you do it sensibly". Do you really want to make excuses for someone who has already proven does not stick to their own promises? I guess you do, as you probably see it as helping. I am just wondering who or what you are helping with that?
Still don't see the point about repair kits since... who the hell uses repair kits!?
TP in town, repair, TP back to instance. And honestly since you can faceroll any instance these days, who needs to repair anyway?
A THOUSAND TIMES THIS
I'll try to explain his point for you.
He was saying that the developers broke their promise because the repair kits in the cash shop are better than the repair kits you buy from the vendors.
Rather the items help you win or not is a useless semantic debate about what the word win means. The more significant point is that they appear to already be breaking their stated boundaries regarding the cash shop and it's not even up and running yet.
They're not better, just more convenient. I prefer kits that repair all in one go. What would you prefer, that they sell the same kits than in game and cut the crown price by 7? What difference dis it make? None...
They are no better and won't help you win.
If they are more convenient then they are better. Which is why even you say you prefer them. So not sure what you are trying to say there.
And you are missing my point about his point. It's not about rather they help you win or not - which as I said is a silly debate about semantics I don't want to engage.
It's about the company playing loose with the truth by saying the cash shop wouldn't sell items that are better than what you can buy from the in-game vendors.
Could you please link where they said because from what I remember of B2P presentation video, they did say potions would be slightly better or different than the ones found in game, but no better than the crafted ones. And I don't recall them mentioning repair kits.
And still, they aren't better :P
It was in the announcement stream. I can't be bothered to go dig through an hour of video for you, right now, but I think it was somewhere between the 12 and 24 minute mark.0 -
WraithAzraiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭WraithAzraiel wrote: »AlexDougherty wrote: »How is it P2W?
oh wait, it's not...
When did they lie? Oh wait, they didn't... They said from get go that potions from the store won't be better than crafted potions but slightly better than potions bought ingame. Info from the B2P announcement video. Get your facts right before vomiting garbage on the forums please
They clearly said items in the crown shop would not be an better than items sold in game by vendors but repair kits That repair every broken item in your inventory are far superior to kits that only repair one item within a certain level range.
OK, but it's like a couple of hundred gold to repair to gear, if you do it sensibly, so not much of an advantage.
That's beside the point. It's "only" couple of hundred now. Better is better no matter how small the difference is and according to their own words, it's should not be better. And cash shop game hasn't even started yet. Remember, the most scary part of cash shops is the possibility to slowly creep towards more difference between in game and cash shop. And excuses like "it's only" do not help in preventing this from happening.
Any kind of difference or advantage can be excused with "if you do it sensibly". Do you really want to make excuses for someone who has already proven does not stick to their own promises? I guess you do, as you probably see it as helping. I am just wondering who or what you are helping with that?
Still don't see the point about repair kits since... who the hell uses repair kits!?
TP in town, repair, TP back to instance. And honestly since you can faceroll any instance these days, who needs to repair anyway?
A THOUSAND TIMES THIS
I'll try to explain his point for you.
He was saying that the developers broke their promise because the repair kits in the cash shop are better than the repair kits you buy from the vendors.
Rather the items help you win or not is a useless semantic debate about what the word win means. The more significant point is that they appear to already be breaking their stated boundaries regarding the cash shop and it's not even up and running yet.
They're not better, just more convenient. I prefer kits that repair all in one go. What would you prefer, that they sell the same kits than in game and cut the crown price by 7? What difference dis it make? None...
They are no better and won't help you win.
If they are more convenient then they are better. Which is why even you say you prefer them. So not sure what you are trying to say there.
And you are missing my point about his point. It's not about rather they help you win or not - which as I said is a silly debate about semantics I don't want to engage.
It's about the company playing loose with the truth by saying the cash shop wouldn't sell items that are better than what you can buy from the in-game vendors.
We've all known ZOS employee's have Ph-friggin'-D's in Wordsmithery for months now. It's a universal truth. Vaguery is their native tongue anymore.
But to get bent out of shape, grasp at straws so damn hard and proclaim the sky is falling - that potions and repair kits are the beginnings of a Tamrielic version of Skynet is just ridiculous.
It's fearmongering at the very least. Unnecessary and idiotic at best. So you can sit there and argue what his or her or whoever's point was left and right and until you're blue in the face - fact of the matter is, what is being perceived as OP or P2W in the iteration of the Crown Store that has yet to be is grossly exaggerated and so far off base it's not even in the same ballpark any longer.
I'm running out of analogies to use to convey just how wildly unnecessary the rampant knee-jerk, unintelligent blamethrowing and doomsaying is.
Though, threads like this do serve the purpose of warning the Devs against taking a P2W path in the future.
Hopefully they listen.
But for the love of all things holy people, stop being dogs with bones/squirrels with nuts, let the subject friggin' die already.Edited by WraithAzraiel on February 8, 2015 7:09PMShendell De'Gull - V14 Vampire Nightblade
Captain of the Black Howling
"There's no such thing as overkill..."
"No problem on the face of the Earth exists what can't be fixed with the proper application of enough duct tape and 550 cord."
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#SEEMSLEGIT1 -
Welka✭✭✭✭✭WraithAzraiel wrote: »WraithAzraiel wrote: »AlexDougherty wrote: »How is it P2W?
oh wait, it's not...
When did they lie? Oh wait, they didn't... They said from get go that potions from the store won't be better than crafted potions but slightly better than potions bought ingame. Info from the B2P announcement video. Get your facts right before vomiting garbage on the forums please
They clearly said items in the crown shop would not be an better than items sold in game by vendors but repair kits That repair every broken item in your inventory are far superior to kits that only repair one item within a certain level range.
OK, but it's like a couple of hundred gold to repair to gear, if you do it sensibly, so not much of an advantage.
That's beside the point. It's "only" couple of hundred now. Better is better no matter how small the difference is and according to their own words, it's should not be better. And cash shop game hasn't even started yet. Remember, the most scary part of cash shops is the possibility to slowly creep towards more difference between in game and cash shop. And excuses like "it's only" do not help in preventing this from happening.
Any kind of difference or advantage can be excused with "if you do it sensibly". Do you really want to make excuses for someone who has already proven does not stick to their own promises? I guess you do, as you probably see it as helping. I am just wondering who or what you are helping with that?
Still don't see the point about repair kits since... who the hell uses repair kits!?
TP in town, repair, TP back to instance. And honestly since you can faceroll any instance these days, who needs to repair anyway?
A THOUSAND TIMES THIS
I'll try to explain his point for you.
He was saying that the developers broke their promise because the repair kits in the cash shop are better than the repair kits you buy from the vendors.
Rather the items help you win or not is a useless semantic debate about what the word win means. The more significant point is that they appear to already be breaking their stated boundaries regarding the cash shop and it's not even up and running yet.
They're not better, just more convenient. I prefer kits that repair all in one go. What would you prefer, that they sell the same kits than in game and cut the crown price by 7? What difference dis it make? None...
They are no better and won't help you win.
If they are more convenient then they are better. Which is why even you say you prefer them. So not sure what you are trying to say there.
And you are missing my point about his point. It's not about rather they help you win or not - which as I said is a silly debate about semantics I don't want to engage.
It's about the company playing loose with the truth by saying the cash shop wouldn't sell items that are better than what you can buy from the in-game vendors.
We've all known ZOS employee's have Ph-friggin'-D's in Wordsmithery for months now. It's a universal truth. Vaguery is their native tongue anymore.
But to get bent out of shape, grasp at straws so damn hard and proclaim the sky is falling - that potions and repair kits are the beginnings of a Tamrielic version of Skynet is just ridiculous.
It's fearmongering at the very least. Unnecessary and idiotic at best. So you can sit there and argue what his or her or whoever's point was left and right and until you're blue in the face - fact of the matter is, what is being perceived as OP or P2W in the iteration of the Crown Store that has yet to be is grossly exaggerated and so far off base it's not even in the same ballpark any longer.
I'm running out of analogies to use to convey just how wildly unnecessary the rampant knee-jerk, unintelligent blamethrowing and doomsaying is.
Though, threads like this do serve the purpose of warning the Devs against taking a P2W path in the future.
Hopefully they listen.
But for the love of all things holy people, stop being dogs with bones/squirrels with nuts, let the subject friggin' die already.
Devs have no say about it, they obey their bosses, who obey their bosses, who obey their boss who says make the game friendly to whatever demographic is more likely to spend cash in store.
Bottom line is ZOS or Bethesda are businesses, not charities.0
