Devs confirm Vet levels here to stay (until sometime after console release)

The_SpAwN · February 2015

Oh look more lies from ZoS, what a surprise....

wraith808 · February 2015

Lauradana wrote: »

Everquest Next is beginning to look REAL good now that I have just read this.

Lawl. It might look like nothing soon.

Daybreak is looking at that console dream too...

wraith808 · February 2015

SirKeka wrote: »

I just hope the good people at Zenimax clear their head and get their priorities straight. Murdering the Veteran Ranks should be on top of the list. All 14 of the [snip].

I don't get this... even after all this time. Is it the ranks, or the manner of getting them? Or the amount of effort required to get them? Or the content lock outs because of them?

Perhaps we should iterate exactly what it is that is so much of an anathema about VRs... or we'll just get them again by a different name. Every game has level progression. And they increase them. Why have VRs gotten such a bad rap... it can't be just because of a number, right?

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Nestor · February 2015

wraith808 wrote: »

I don't get this... even after all this time. Is it the ranks, or the manner of getting them? Or the amount of effort required to get them? Or the content lock outs because of them?
..... Why have VRs gotten such a bad rap... it can't be just because of a number, right?

Its not the numbers, but how one has to go about getting them. They could have stopped at L50 and introduced Equipment Ranks as an end game progression. Which is what the VR Ranks really are. But, even then, if you look at the stat differences between a VR3 and VR4 armor, it's a small increase, almost as small as the increases were in the leveling zones. It should be much more of a difference. It kind of irked me when I made my second set of VR gear and saw just how small the increases were.

Soulshine · February 2015

AaronMB wrote: »

rophez_ESO wrote: »

...the developer said he "doesn't like missing."

...Missing an opportunity to exploit the masses and make some coin, they mean!

Makes me think of this classic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WCFUGCOLLU

Yes, but it does beg the question: "take the money and run.... where?" 'cause at this point, the direction of the game is very... nebulous.

Darlgon · February 2015

Panic and forum mob mentality is very funny. Paul Sage was asked if VR would be gone by the B2P launch. his answer was "No". (Seriously? Someone HAD to ask if it would be gone within a month after the release of the Champion system?) When asked if would be gone my console release? "Probably not".

Guess what... they wont have a new update within 30 days of a previous new release ... and they will be working on consoles until console launch.. wow.. really?

Robocles · February 2015

Darlgon wrote: »

Panic and forum mob mentality is very funny. Paul Sage was asked if VR would be gone by the B2P launch. his answer was "No". (Seriously? Someone HAD to ask if it would be gone within a month after the release of the Champion system?) When asked if would be gone my console release? "Probably not".

Guess what... they wont have a new update within 30 days of a previous new release ... and they will be working on consoles until console launch.. wow.. really?

Read again.

1.6 will not remove Vet ranks... 1.6 WILL be the version that releases on consoles.

I'll let you do the math of the time period between the two.

Nyteshade · February 2015

Ahh damn. I beta tested the game and enjoyed it but didn't buy because of VR's. What I heard was bye bye VR's, here is a new Champion system instead, and now we're dropping sub fees.
So I go finally buy my box and a week later here that VR's are staying.
Bah
Burn me once....

timidobserver · February 2015

This is one of the few times I've been really shocked. I thought that something that game changing would happen before the console release.

I think the people that hold the money sprung the whole F2P thing and the devs are just reacting the best that they can. It would make sense to someone only concerned with money, but no one with any common sense would release a system that is going to be completely removed, due to being a horrible system, to a new platform.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · February 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

This is one of the few times I've been really shocked. I thought that something that game changing would happen before the console release.

This pretty much tells you they will never get rid of vet ranks. Just not feasible. So they are going with it on consoles. Once people spend all that time leveling they arent going to be happy when it goes away. So basically what ZOS is telling you is that vet ranks are here to stay.

NadiusMaximus · February 2015

Sounds like they are overwhelmed and scrambling. It sounds like there are two or more teams working on stuff, then a third steps in and says scrap that use this. The new stuff is incomplete and incompatible with any thing, but they have no choice but to push it.

Sounds like the game is kinda *** right now. Console version may be a single player co-op after all, if it shuts down.

wraith808 · February 2015

Nestor wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

I don't get this... even after all this time. Is it the ranks, or the manner of getting them? Or the amount of effort required to get them? Or the content lock outs because of them?
..... Why have VRs gotten such a bad rap... it can't be just because of a number, right?

Its not the numbers, but how one has to go about getting them. They could have stopped at L50 and introduced Equipment Ranks as an end game progression. Which is what the VR Ranks really are. But, even then, if you look at the stat differences between a VR3 and VR4 armor, it's a small increase, almost as small as the increases were in the leveling zones. It should be much more of a difference. It kind of irked me when I made my second set of VR gear and saw just how small the increases were.

So why do people say it's the VR instead of saying this. My problem with the VR experience only really has to do with the grind required before (which has been mitigated), the fact that it had a different experience type (also mitigated), and the fact that certain content and areas are gated (not mitigated).

I also had a problem with the fact that you have to experience the other factions story, so it really makes no sense to make an alt in the other factions, but I've stopped worrying about that and learned to 'love the bomb' in that case.

My other concern was what you talk about... the power creeps for the effort required. It's gotten better... but still needs adjustment. And the fact that there is *no* horizontal progression. I mean, you can still progress in such a way... I've started trying DW and Bow to level those. But in the single area... no. No new abilities to learn and experiment with

People have grouped all complaints about the system into one overarching category of Veteran Ranks... when its specific parts, and those could be addressed if vocalized in such a way?

And now they're completely changing systems... which won't be right in the first iteration in any case if history shows. Not just the history of ESO, but the history of MMOs in general.

Lynnessa · February 2015

BBSooner wrote: »

Veteran levels would be far more tolerable if it wasn't part of the deal that you had to go through the other factions.

I think Cadwell's is a separate thing from VR. You actually gain xp faster by doing daily pledges, as opposed to questing. Cadwell's is mandatory for skill points and skyshards (and just to see the rest of the game world...) but not for VR.

wraith808 · February 2015

Lynnessa wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Veteran levels would be far more tolerable if it wasn't part of the deal that you had to go through the other factions.

I think Cadwell's is a separate thing from VR. You actually gain xp faster by doing daily pledges, as opposed to questing. Cadwell's is mandatory for skill points and skyshards (and just to see the rest of the game world...) but not for VR.

Yes, you don't *have* to do Cadwell's to level. But for so long, it was the most efficient way to do so. And, as you said... skyshards. And you lose access to areas *completely*.

Castiel_Boomer · February 2015

Why is nobody realizing that VR14 is actually level 63, if they were to just change it from vet to straight numbers, since we hit VR1 at level "50", so yeah, VR14 is actually level 63......For all of you guys mentioning VR14 being like level 64, it's not, LOL

wraith808 · February 2015

Castiel_Boomer wrote: »

Why is nobody realizing that VR14 is actually level 63, if they were to just change it from vet to straight numbers, since we hit VR1 at level "50", so yeah, VR14 is actually level 63......For all of you guys mentioning VR14 being like level 64, it's not, LOL

Wrong... thanks for playing.

The veteran levels are about 10 levels worth of experience. At least, they were originally. So each VR was supposed to be about 10 levels of advancement.

Jaxsun · February 2015

Cazic wrote: »

They should just remove the term "Veteran Ranks", add one more level and increase the total level cap to 65. That way there's no need to redo the gear and item progression, and we get a nice complete sounding number like 65 instead of 14.

This would be good. But the best thing they can do is make it so that the experience points needed to level each veteran rank increase the same as levels 1-49. 1million xp per rank is still *** ridiculous and totally uncalled for. It adds no depth to the game.

Jaxsun · February 2015

wraith808 wrote: »

SirKeka wrote: »

I just hope the good people at Zenimax clear their head and get their priorities straight. Murdering the Veteran Ranks should be on top of the list. All 14 of the ***.

I don't get this... even after all this time. Is it the ranks, or the manner of getting them? Or the amount of effort required to get them? Or the content lock outs because of them?

Perhaps we should iterate exactly what it is that is so much of an anathema about VRs... or we'll just get them again by a different name. Every game has level progression. And they increase them. Why have VRs gotten such a bad rap... it can't be just because of a number, right?

my problem with them has not changed since implementation. They still require too much xp per level to gain. 1mill per is *** uncalled for. They should make it the same ratio as 1-49.

BBSooner · February 2015

Lynnessa wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Veteran levels would be far more tolerable if it wasn't part of the deal that you had to go through the other factions.

I think Cadwell's is a separate thing from VR. You actually gain xp faster by doing daily pledges, as opposed to questing. Cadwell's is mandatory for skill points and skyshards (and just to see the rest of the game world...) but not for VR.

The same can be said for 1-50, grinding is faster than actual questing. I perhaps should have been more specific and said Cadwell's is required if you wish to quest through VR. As I was under the impression that most players quested for levels for various reasons (skill points, interest, achievements, etc) I figured it was implied.

KraidenDove · February 2015

Woah woah woah, so let me get this straight. The champion system is being implemented...with the Veteran Ranks in play. I thought the champion system was designed to eliminate the VR system!? So you are telling me there will be no pvp in the champ/justice system, the veteran system is still in play, there is no imperial city, there is no dark brotherhood or thieves guild, there is no single player endgame content, and even if we have grinded to VR 14, the system is going to nerf us to grind more exp.

Well...shut up and take my money! Oh wait, I can play without a sub fee. $:\$

Valencer · February 2015

I guess the console players can discover firsthand how fun veteran ranks are. Especially with some of the high ranked players maybe transferring their characters over to their console. Should kickstart the "VR14 or gtfo" mentality nicely over there.

I don't see much point in the Champion system if the VR system is going to be around for 2+ more months.

Arato · February 2015

I don't like that VR's are staying, it forces a linear progression where abandoning VR's would have opened up the game, people could do other content without feeling like they're screwing themselves over by skipping Cadwell's Silver/Gold.

I mean I get really tired of solo questing. I have friends that quit over the extended solo quest grind that is Cadwell's silver/gold, but as of now it's always going to remain pretty much mandatory to do them in a linear fashion until VR's are removed,

No straight up grinding is not an option I'd rather brush my teeth with sandpaper than grind.

JD2013 · February 2015

No new content until summer.

Well, count me disappointed. Unsurprised but very disappointed.

Joejudas · February 2015

Vr ranks did go away. They nerfed all the end game armor and took away a bunch of our stats. 1.6 PTS was the biggest end game blanket nerf.

Darlgon · February 2015

Robocles wrote: »

Darlgon wrote: »

Panic and forum mob mentality is very funny. Paul Sage was asked if VR would be gone by the B2P launch. his answer was "No". (Seriously? Someone HAD to ask if it would be gone within a month after the release of the Champion system?) When asked if would be gone my console release? "Probably not".

Guess what... they wont have a new update within 30 days of a previous new release ... and they will be working on consoles until console launch.. wow.. really?

Read again.

1.6 will not remove Vet ranks... 1.6 WILL be the version that releases on consoles.

I'll let you do the math of the time period between the two.

Read what? The podcast is all audio. People are typing kneejerk reactions to mis-interpretations of what Paul Sage said.

The timeline is:

Somewhere between now (at minimum two weeks from Monday, one more NA and one more EU char copy) and March 17th, 1.6 will be launched.

The host asked if VR ranks would be gone between when 1.6 launched and March 17th. (Did someone seriously think they would have update 1.7 ready in the 30 days between 1.6 launch and March 17th?)

The host asked if VR ranks would be gone between 1.6 launch and console release in June. (Ummm no.. makes sense that all teams would be prepping console release, including bug fixes, console Beta tests and rebalancing the game for PC/Mac, between the launch of 1.6 and console releaase.)

To be added, this press tour is just like the one we had for the PC/Mac launch back between Sept 2013 and March 2014, except for focused on console users. They are promoting the console release in June.

Robocles · February 2015

This has all been stated, in writing, before. Like you said, it's a promo interview... and that information is a rehash of what's been discussed here already.

Arato · February 2015

The problem is why get console players attached to a system and used to it when it's just going to be taken away? It makes 0 sense.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2015

It's not a issue with any exp needed for a VR level but rather the actual VR levels themselves and the gold and silver quests that are the problem

Remove VR levels
Remove gold and silver quests
Add Champ Point at least to 120
Add Justice system
Figure out how Crag becomes the next post level 49 content

This would be a good start.
Also those ppl with 3 or 4 VR14, give them the 120 CP on their account

DeathDealer19 · February 2015

rophez_ESO wrote: »

Also confirm no new content till after summer. Just a few highlights that annoyed me:

- no plans for small scale pvp
- no plans for new endgame content
- when asked about evasion tanking the developer said he "doesn't like missing."

http://questgamingnetwork.com/category/podcasts/esotr-podcasts/

Discuss!

- no plans for new endgame content?

just listened to the whole interview and they didn't say this at all. people really need to listen and not assume things that are incorrect.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2015

Arato wrote: »

The problem is why get console players attached to a system and used to it when it's just going to be taken away? It makes 0 sense.

The real issue is why bring PC players back into the same broken mess that they left from. Console players will ultimately suffer too. But March is really close for PC and it's only going to get worse as they've proven that they can not host a lot of players at once without servers stability problems.