Do developers really listen to feedback and make changes?

jdyatespreub18_ESO · February 2015

I've recently returned to the game and want to play a sorcerer. All information being shared thus far is that they are truly lacking. Believing 1.6 was going to help, I've spent my time leveling up a sorc anyway. Now reading the feedback from PTS things have gone from bad to worse. So my question is "Do developers listen to this feedback?" So far, it appears they do not. Hope I am wrong.

Roechacca · February 2015

They do indeed listen . Do they do exactly what players want ? Not often enough .

AshySamurai · February 2015

Sure they listen. How you can doubt in it. It's just we don't know what we want and often cry for things we don't need.

BBSooner · February 2015

jdyatespreub18_ESO wrote: »

I've recently returned to the game and want to play a sorcerer. All information being shared thus far is that they are truly lacking. Believing 1.6 was going to help, I've spent my time leveling up a sorc anyway. Now reading the feedback from PTS things have gone from bad to worse. So my question is "Do developers listen to this feedback?" So far, it appears they do not. Hope I am wrong.

VR was first developed from player outcry to be able to play all zones on all characters.

VR now being removed (presumably unless this has changed) and being replaced with champion.

Collections tab asked for and implemented.

Class skills being effected by stamina and not just magicka asked for and implemented.

Change in initial CP for 1.6 howled for and implemented.

Loyalty rewards asked for and implemented.

Improvements to WW skill line and desirability asked for and implemented.

Only a few examples, many smaller examples. I'd say they do listen (sometimes to a fault: I'd say some occasions of listening to their player base has been to their detriment). The important thing to remember is "not listening" is not the same thing as "not implementing"; alot of player ideas are not feasible or just plain bad.

AlnilamE · February 2015

They do. Just remember that different players want different things, and they are not always compatible.

Tandor · February 2015

Never take any notice of what other players say, especially about class balance issues in a game with PvP. Play the game your way and see how you get on!

NewBlacksmurf · February 2015

They incorporate feedback within changes for example, things being tested in PTS right now. If you get on there and provide them with non-offensive and constructive feedback/suggestions it's taken into consideration.

Many times, this process of communication results in positive change for everyone. Just post it in the PTS forums

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · February 2015

They scrapped VR, which in their words was a "core vision" due to a huge negative response so yeah, they do, just not very often.

Lynx7386 · February 2015

Yes they listen to feedback.
Yes they make changes.

No, the changes don't have anything to do with the feedback.

Gidorick · February 2015

Depends on the number of threads clamoring about the same thing. One or two threads with some good ideas will likely be overlooked.

Squeaky wheel gets the grease.

AlexDougherty · February 2015

There have been a number of player requested changes, here's some:

Dyes were introduced after players including me asked for them
New Zones are being added after we asked for them.
New mounts are being added after we asked for them.
Champion system has been cobbled together from numerous player requests.
VR levels being removed because people complained about them.
Various nerfs and rebalances to classes because people complained a lot, continously really.
Writs added because we complained about crafts.
Population caps added to PVP because we complained about lag.
Low Population Bonuses added to PVP because people complained they were always outnumbered.
Crown store added because people were always asking for it.
B2P because a certain section bombarded the forums with requests for it, yes bombarded people were making several threads about it every day, that's bombarding the forums.

jdyatespreub18_ESO · February 2015

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Yes they listen to feedback.
Yes they make changes.

No, the changes don't have anything to do with the feedback.

Great, so maybe there is still hope for my sorcerer coming out of 1.6

firstdecan · February 2015

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

They scrapped VR, which in their words was a "core vision" due to a huge negative response so yeah, they do, just not very often.

I am going to politely disagree. The main complaints about the VR content was how long it took to get to "end game" and the fact that the only practical ways to get there were the "Quest Grind" or "Exploit Grinds." There is also a secondary complaint about the "lack of end game content" or post 50 content, outside of running all the quests all over again.

The Devs are removing the VR levels, but they're replacing it with a system that takes even longer to get through. It's effectively telling players that there will never be an end to the grind, and unless you're willing to play 60 hours a week you won't be competitive in PvP or other "end game" content. They effectively replaced an already tedious grind with an even longer one.

So the Devs do listen, but they seem to have wax in their ears.

Emma_Overload · February 2015

Devs only listen to PVP whiners and a handful of PVE raiding guilds. The needs and concerns of the vast majority of PVE players aren't worth jack.

cozmon3c_ESO · February 2015

1 pvp is more competitive and needs more balance then pve. Npcs don't whine when you own the hell out of them with an exploit or overlooked abilities. Pvpers will because it ruins out gaming experience. You balance pvp, you will basically be able balance pve easier. If zos Nerfs one of your abilities because of pvp chances are it was over powered in pve as well.

ZOS_JasonLeavey · February 2015

Hey there, @jdyatespreub18_ESO. First, welcome back! We are very much listening to the feedback provided by you and all ESO players in-game, on the forums, and across our social channels. Your impressions are incredibly important, especially while we have content on PTS before pushing the build live. This is also why we held several PTS events last week to help test new systems and hear your thoughts. We've made many adjustments based on player feedback, which you'll continue to see in our incremental patches on PTS, and of course on live.

Keep on testing and sharing your thoughts with us!

Harleyquincey · February 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Devs only listen to PVP whiners and a handful of PVE raiding guilds. The needs and concerns of the vast majority of PVE players aren't worth jack.

You'd be surprised how many raiding guilds players are actually concerned about the difficulty for non-raid focused players. There is many reasons for this, one of them certainly being: If players who are not raid-focused get denied the chance to gear up and to conquer challenges because the difficulty has risen to absurd levels, where should new raiders come from? They don't drop from the sky, many of them develop and learn from peers.

Take me as an example, actually. I'm part of Sigma Draconis, a raid-oriented EU DC guild which clocks in pretty decent times on the leaderboards. Before I joined Sigma, I thought myself to be a fairly competent tank. After joining Sigma I didn't participate in raids for a long time since I first wanted to see if they're cool folks and one day I decided to simply try out one of their tank builds. It increased my performance significantly and from that moment on I thought "Hey, they really know their stuff and seem to be quite nice and helpful as well. You know what? Let's give it a jug and join a raid."

Since that moment I have found wonderful companions and it's been a blast ever since - because there is no "elitism" around there and if you struggle with something, there's always someone to help you out, answer questions and tutor you.

I really detested progression guilds in the past because of displayed elitism, but I can now say: Not all of these guilds are that way and several of us are testing PTS stuff and provide feedback because right now the challenge level on PTS is simply too high - because if me and three players around my experience (and in one case far above it) wipe to Wayrest Sewers Vet, then I know it'd be the end of most PuGs - and where's the fun in that for them? Where's the new raiders supposed to come from if they get shocked that much?

So, please, don't think that noone cares about others, some folks really do - certainly, others exist who don't give a snip, but that's another story.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · February 2015

ZOS_JasonLeavey wrote: »

Keep on testing and sharing your thoughts with us!

Of course, 'sharing thoughts' is great but when we get nothing back it's easy think it's pointless.

Compare your (ZOS') activity on the PTS forum here with that of other MMO developers on their equivalent forums (WOW of course springs to mind but others too). There is nigh on NO COMMENT AT ALL from any ZOS 'dev' in the PTS forums, far, FAR less any actual EXPLANATION of the reasons for the massive nerfs being inflicted at this time.

Love Blizzard or hate them, you (one) can't deny they actively DISCUSS updates with their players and even when they don't do what the players ask them to do the players at least are told WHY .. there is a total and complete absence of ANY attempt by ZOS developers to provide explanations for the massive raft of skill and gear nerfs, especially in view of the devs' alleged aim of "buffing weak skills" and their clearly statement this was NOT a NERFing exercise.

I am a cynic by nature, but God knows ZOS makes it easy to be cynical of your intentions and given your history of going back on clear statements of intent, I wonder if your new policy is to sit in silence lest you make more promises you will then fail to keep.

LonePirate · February 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Devs only listen to PVP whiners and a handful of PVE raiding guilds. The needs and concerns of the vast majority of PVE players aren't worth jack.

As someone who mostly engages in PVP content, I find this post to be hysterical because it simply is not true. Cyrodiil has not received a single content update since the game's launch. Game performance in Cyrodiil oscillates from mediocre to abysmal. Exploiters run rampant. Changes made for PVE content/players often have catastrophic results in Cyrodiil. PVP specific bugs often go months before they are fixed, provided they are fixed at all. Lastly, try levelling up a character from level 10 to VR14 in Cyrodiil and you will appreciate the high quality of life the vast majority of PVE players enjoy.

Bloodfang · February 2015

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_JasonLeavey wrote: »

Keep on testing and sharing your thoughts with us!

Of course, 'sharing thoughts' is great but when we get nothing back it's easy think it's pointless.

Compare your (ZOS') activity on the PTS forum here with that of other MMO developers on their equivalent forums (WOW of course springs to mind but others too). There is nigh on NO COMMENT AT ALL from any ZOS 'dev' in the PTS forums, far, FAR less any actual EXPLANATION of the reasons for the massive nerfs being inflicted at this time.

Love Blizzard or hate them, you (one) can't deny they actively DISCUSS updates with their players and even when they don't do what the players ask them to do the players at least are told WHY .. there is a total and complete absence of ANY attempt by ZOS developers to provide explanations for the massive raft of skill and gear nerfs, especially in view of the devs' alleged aim of "buffing weak skills" and their clearly statement this was NOT a NERFing exercise.

I am a cynic by nature, but God knows ZOS makes it easy to be cynical of your intentions and given your history of going back on clear statements of intent, I wonder if your new policy is to sit in silence lest you make more promises you will then fail to keep.

You either never played WoW..
..or you are just being very ignorant..

Blizzard has the worst costumer support of any gaming company that I've ever had the pleasure "playing" for.

Not only are they never explaining why they are nerfing things, why all the changes etc...they are most of the time just being SILENT. And when they are actually talking, they threaten you to just stop playing if you don't like the changes. Yes that's exactly the kind of support you get from Blizzard, plain rude and treating their costumers like piece of garbage.

Go head to their forums if you don't believe me. Right now the weakest classes got nerfed into Oblivion, while the most OP classes got even more buffed. People are of course raging. After 10 years straight their game is still a pretty much balance wrecked..if you call that a balance..In PvP I can't think of any game thats is more unbalanced. And that for 10 years STRAIGHT!!

Blizzard doesn't have a clue what they are doing nor they ever did. On top of that they even have the worst costumer support you can get in gaming. So the next time you go publicly insulting ZOS, keep in mind that this is one of the best costumer support you can actually get today. We are very lucky they are even talking to us, cause if you didn't notice our community is getting very subpar.

jdyatespreub18_ESO · February 2015

ZOS_JasonLeavey wrote: »

Hey there, @jdyatespreub18_ESO. First, welcome back! We are very much listening to the feedback provided by you and all ESO players in-game, on the forums, and across our social channels. Your impressions are incredibly important, especially while we have content on PTS before pushing the build live. This is also why we held several PTS events last week to help test new systems and hear your thoughts. We've made many adjustments based on player feedback, which you'll continue to see in our incremental patches on PTS, and of course on live.

Keep on testing and sharing your thoughts with us!

Jason, thank very much for the response. Does this mean you guys are taking a closer look at the Sorcerer class? The overwhelming feedback thus far is the class is severely lacking compared to other classes and post 1.6 will be even worse.

Emma_Overload · February 2015

LonePirate wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Devs only listen to PVP whiners and a handful of PVE raiding guilds. The needs and concerns of the vast majority of PVE players aren't worth jack.

As someone who mostly engages in PVP content, I find this post to be hysterical because it simply is not true. Cyrodiil has not received a single content update since the game's launch. Game performance in Cyrodiil oscillates from mediocre to abysmal. Exploiters run rampant. Changes made for PVE content/players often have catastrophic results in Cyrodiil. PVP specific bugs often go months before they are fixed, provided they are fixed at all. Lastly, try levelling up a character from level 10 to VR14 in Cyrodiil and you will appreciate the high quality of life the vast majority of PVE players enjoy.

Every single thing ZoS has done in the last 6 months to jack up my PVE Sorcerer build has been because of PVP complaints. From class skills like Bolt Escape to Sorc-friendly weapon skills like Wall of Elements, nerf after nerf has come down because someone in Cyrodiil got their panties in a knot!

Today I see PVPers griping about "shield stacking"... you know that means? In a week or two you'll see patch notes say something like "Hardened Ward - This skill has had its cost doubled and shield strength cut in half."

Crowzer · February 2015

Listen is good but make change is an another story. (cf. the NB class)

Brittany_Joy · February 2015

@Bloodfang, I have to strongly disagree. Blizzard's customer support was the best I have ever encountered in my online gaming history. They answered my tickets in a reasonable amount of time and were quite nice when talking about my situation. For example; I got scammed by a shady seller who sold me tons of rare gems for cheap. I searched online on what could happen to my stuff, turns out people had their stuff deleted with no compensation. I freaked out! So I quickly made a ticket and told Blizzard everything. Surprisingly, unlike the complainers on the forums, Blizzard Customer support allowed me to keep the stuff I bought and used the information I provided to stop a hacked account. It is not just me, in fact there are numerous amount of other people who are satisfied with Blizzard's Customer Support.

Blizzard's devs are actively involved in the community, just look it up. You can tweet to them or ask a question on a forum and devs beside the community support team will actually respond. Ghostcrawler actively responded to threads on forums, he was known to increase communication between the devs and players. They also talk us through changes that happen with classes, this is not a lie like you claim.

ZOS's devs are not active in the community at all. Only the support team actually make an effort to respond to concerns. Nothing is stopping any of the lead developers from communicating with the community. The lead developers just don't bother with the community besides Q&A. ZOS doesn't share statistics with the community or even allow us to find out how our characters function on a subliminal level. Riot and Blizzard share tons of statistics with the community and insight on how each character works. So you saying ZOS is active in the community is inaccurate.

joleda4ub17_ESO · February 2015

The biggest problem is that most players want to be a super hero and kill everything with 1-3 clicks. PVP would totally suck if we always died to one hit and PVE would be trivial if we could solo the world. The player base is 98% of the problem.

rawne1980b16_ESO · February 2015

Bloodfang wrote: »

So the next time you go publicly insulting ZOS, keep in mind that this is one of the best costumer support you can actually get today.

Comedic genius.

I think I should tell you that the community team, those that speak on the forums, and customer support are two entirely different things.

When you have a problem and send a ticket in .... that's customer support.

When you come to the forums and see someone from ZOS comment .... that's someone from the community team.

Two entirely different parts of the company.

It's not as bad as those that think the community team are actually devs, those are hilarious.

Razzak · February 2015

ZOS_JasonLeavey wrote: »

Hey there, @jdyatespreub18_ESO. First, welcome back! We are very much listening to the feedback provided by you and all ESO players in-game, on the forums, and across our social channels. Your impressions are incredibly important, especially while we have content on PTS before pushing the build live. This is also why we held several PTS events last week to help test new systems and hear your thoughts. We've made many adjustments based on player feedback, which you'll continue to see in our incremental patches on PTS, and of course on live.

Keep on testing and sharing your thoughts with us!

Then would you mind telling us when you will fix grouping tool? You seem to actively avoid this topic. Is there a reason for that?
Why not incorporate testing of a grouping tool and why it's not working, on the PTS?

Mettaricana · February 2015

ZOS_JasonLeavey wrote: »

Hey there, @jdyatespreub18_ESO. First, welcome back! We are very much listening to the feedback provided by you and all ESO players in-game, on the forums, and across our social channels. Your impressions are incredibly important, especially while we have content on PTS before pushing the build live. This is also why we held several PTS events last week to help test new systems and hear your thoughts. We've made many adjustments based on player feedback, which you'll continue to see in our incremental patches on PTS, and of course on live.

Keep on testing and sharing your thoughts with us!

we keep sharing thoughts though not seeing much in terms of listening and implementing of what we want to see...

A Sinden · February 2015

You also have to keep in mind that listening to feedback and then disagreeing about the solution/implementation can look very much the same as simply not listening to feedback.

There are some great wonderful innovative ideas out there by the community, then there are some absolutely horrible and biased ideas that would do real harm to the game or even if not inherently bad it could simply run counter to the sought after ethos or style.

In the case of the former it can often take longer that many consider reasonable* to implement for a variety of valid reasons. The latter however if not acted on looks almost exactly the same as if they are not listening.

*All too often people compare a personal response time but the development team needed for a AAA title is not a small agile entity.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · February 2015

LonePirate wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Devs only listen to PVP whiners and a handful of PVE raiding guilds. The needs and concerns of the vast majority of PVE players aren't worth jack.

As someone who mostly engages in PVP content, I find this post to be hysterical because it simply is not true..

You surely can't deny the flood of skill nerfs across the entire game is driven by endless PVP QQ about 'balance' and 'OPness'?

newtinmpls · February 2015

LonePirate wrote: »

PVP specific bugs often go months before they are fixed, provided they are fixed at all.

Well.... there are still plenty of quest bugs in the PVE content that don't appear to have been touched in months. So it's not just you.